macaroni21

That's useful information. And that's a lot of money. But spending it on marquees is, IMHO, not the best way to spend it. Money would be better spent on (a) websites and social media promoting the area; (b) business consultants hired to reengineer the bars' business models towards more creativity, variety and customer satisfaction. The way I see it, Jomtien Complex's ailment cannot be cured by figuratively shouting (with a lit marquee) at passengers in songteaws who happen to ride past on Thappraya Road. It can only be saved by attracting more visitors from afar (like France, Korea, etc). You can't do that with a marquee. You do that with a good product offer (thus, redesign the business models) and good advertising that goes out internationally (i.e. in multiple languages). This lack of insight into what's needed is not restricted to Jomtien Complex. You could say the same of other gay areas in Thailand.

Who do you think is paying for this? I find it hard to believe that the bars in that street, with reportedly low customer traffic, have the excess cash for this.

In this specific case of a silicone dick, how do we "use these forums as a warning center"? To do so, we'd have to name/identify the person, something that brings up huge ethical issues. Here's where I plug my idea again: gogo bars should offer a private dance option. That way, we can, for a fee, inspect or lightly play with the boy for maybe 10-15 minutes before making a bigger investment.

About being a side: Like any good statistician, one should begin by explaining the methodology and the sampling technique. I shall declare here that I have neither data or ever tried any kind of structured sampling or observation. Please don’t picture me as some kind of fly on the wall, equipped with clipboard, watching and making notes about other people’s preferred gymnastics. 😮 Well, maybe in my next life when, by the grace of Buddha, I am reincarnated as a fly… but not yet. I don’t think it’s so simple. It may well be that those who are EXCLUSIVELY side are a minority (and even then, a biggish minority), but since even tops and bottoms sometimes have encounters that aren’t insertive, then side-type encounters may be much more common than we think. I posit with my arguments below that side-type encounters may very well be the majority of encounters. We may be able to draw, very indirectly, a sense of the situation from the arrays of boys advertised by many of the Saphan Khwai massage shops. Phetboy, K-man, 27M, KK Massage and OneSpa either always or sometimes tag their featured boys with “Top” or “T&B”. I have never seen a pure “B” or “Handjob only” tag (not in Thailand, at least). The great majority of the tagged boys are “Top”. In my experience, even those tagged as “T&B” sometimes resist bottomming. @reader, who surely has far more experience with the Saphan Khwai shops, may be able to share his view on this. Furthermore, I suspect the shops use the “T&B” tag to simply indicate gay sexual orientation, not what they will actually be prepared to do, which adds another layer of complication. Assuming that there isn’t a situation where “T&B” boys score vastly more bookings than “Top” boys, then (since the large majority of boys as tagged as “top”) we are left with two logical possibilities: Either the great majority of interactions in these shops’ rooms involve the customer bottoming, or the great majority of interactions are side. I somehow think it is more likely the latter. One question for the wisdom of the masses here: What about someone whose primary interest is in blowjobs, giving and/or receiving. Would he be classed as a side?

About 4-hands: I totally agree it is almost always poor value for money. Most of us might be piqued by the possibility – and I wonder whether it’s a transfer from watching porn – but in real life it seems hard to arrange, and too often comes with a low satisfaction rate. I paid for a number of four-hand massages way back in the 1990s, then got disillusioned and haven’t really been buying anymore. From distant memory, the only time when I had what might be called a “good” session was eons ago in Phuket when I hired a pair of guys. They were unusually interactive with each other which was fun to watch. Later I found out that they were cousins and had been frisky with each other since young. But even then, there was some disappointment. After they had both cum, they were so spent they hardly performed much by way of service on me. "Hey guys, I am the one paying!" I have only one story in my blog about a four-hands massage - so rarely do I order this. This was from 2020, and was far more typical of the so-so, meh, experience I associate with such an arrangement.

Indeed! I was once in a Seoul hotel and happened to chat with an American couple at breakfast. They said something about hoping to visit, later that day, a site just outside Seoul. It so happened that I had been there just the day before and our conversation ventured into how I made my way there and back. I simply described taking the metro to a line's final stop and then changing to a bus for the last leg. Our hotel was almost on top of the starting metro station, so it would have been the easiest thing in the world to use that routing. They expressed some horror that I would risk taking the "subway" as they called it. I got the sense they were fearful of being mugged. They kept asking how to rent a car - which I knew nothing about - and I kept saying it was completely unnecessary nor the most convenient since we'd have no idea if traffic could be bad. To be fair, I vaguely recall they were from Missouri or Arkansas or some such state in the middle of nowhere. I don't think they had a metro system in their hometown, so it would also have been very unfamiliar to them. I'd give them credit for getting all the way to Korea (something to do with Korean War, I recall) when most people in their home state might find a trip to Canada more than enough of an adventure. I mean, like, what's wrong with Canadians? Why is their dollar different? Why is there a foreign language on some public signs?

Well, if a premature incident happens and the object of affection turns flaccid soon enough, then the prospective customer of the barber shop shall get a "small penis" price, which represents a discount. Alternatively, a free haircut altogether. 🤣

The part that jumped out at me was "They agreed on a fare of 500 baht." The trip was from Phaya Thai BTS station which most of us are familiar with. His destination was Soi Mangkon, near Wat Mangkon. There is an MRT station called Wat Mangkon. So, it would have been far cheaper (under 100 baht) and more comfortable to go from Phaya Thai to Asok by BTS, and then change to MRT at Sukhumvit station and then go to Wat Mangkon.I reckon it would take less than half an hour in airconditioned comfort, rather than battle traffic jams and breathe vehicular fumes in a non-enclosed tuktuk. Alternatively, take the airport train from Phaya Thai to Makkasan. Walk over to Petchaburi MRT station and train down to Wat Mangkon.

Has it not occurred to anyone that those endowments have been photoshopped?

Wouldn't we all? And some of us would have exacting standards to ensure consistent measurement. It has to be erect after precisely 35 strokes in the penis pump - in the absence of which instrument, my trusty hand.

I'm glad you expressed an opinion on that practice. I too think it is improper to oblige anyone to consume alcohol. I would not even excuse it away with "nobody is forced to drink for money" because in reality his employment in the bar may be at risk if he regularly refuses. It is bad form on the part of the customer, and it is irresponsible on the part of the business to permit an unsafe, oppressive work environment. What if a customer offered a cigarette or cocaine instead of a shot? I have seen and hired barboys who turned out to be Muslim. Should they be made to feel obliged to accept the shot?

If it was a free encounter, it's not that strange, just an unusual coincidence. Among all the free partners out there, they come from all sorts of professions. If it was a paid encounter, then it would have been more remarkable.

https://shamelessmacktwo.travel.blog/2023/12/13/how-to-take-in-that-massive-thing/ Second half of that post.

And if you read @vinapu's latest reports, some bar boys are demanding 4000 baht - in excess of USD100 - for max 2 hours! See his thread "This time bit different" Day 9 last paragraph.

It's a report from @Daniu dated 6 August 2024. Link here: It's a long post, but the relevant passage that Daniu wrote was this: "I ended up leaving and going back to Good Boy to get the other guy who caught my eye the day before. .... "There was a particularly pretty Vietnamese guy. As we walked, he bragged about how he was the #1 boy in the bar. (I should have known then.) He acted like a boy who knew he was pretty. He did everything enough but he didn’t sufficiently hide that they were just going though the motions. Unfortunately, he didn’t seem to really clean his ass, and things didn’t go well. After a clean up we got back to it, and he wasn’t really taking dick well, so I ended up finishing myself. My mistake was that we hadn’t agreed to a price before we left the bar, so I assumed it would be 2000-2500, which is their normal rate. As soon as I gave him 2500 he seemed disappointed, he started demanding an extra 500 because I was too big. Then he somehow started demanding an extra 1000. I held firm because I knew I was already paying enough, and to be honest the service wasn’t really great." I think there have been otherr mentions too (may not be the same boy), but those would have been further back in time, because when I read what Daniu wrote, I got a sense of deja vu, like someone else had earlier reported a very similar incident.

Maybe the owner is Irish? Flag of Ireland:

To be more exact, what the narrator said was "Two hundred tourists. mostly local nationals, were found to be partying in a Third Road pub club. Twenty failed urine tests and the rest were let go." By "tourists", he probably meant visitors to Pattaya. Even if they were international tourists, they could well be Indians or Arabs, not necessarily farang, since Indians and Arabs are nowadays a big part of the Pattaya scene.

Ah, my mistake. I got it mixed up with Bally Suites. I now see that Bandara Suites is a different property. Bally Suites is cheek by jowl with Saladaeng Station, no doubt, but having once looked up at its facade, I didn't think it was the kind of place I'd stay in except in extremis. This is what it looks like from Silom Road. I also doubt if it is upscale as the OP wants.

Do any of their "suites" have windows?

Did you use the washing machine? Twice I have stayed in apartments with washing machines (not in Thailand, though) only to find that (in one case) the instructions were in a foreign language and were hopelessly complex. This was before Google translate. In the other case, no detergent provided and the nearby shops only sold family size. And then when I relented and bought family size, I discovered the machine didn't work and the host did not even know it was out of order! I was left with a mass of dripping wet clothes with checkout due the next day! Fortunately the host said he would take lot back to his home, wash and dry it for me overnight.

Meanwhile, Schengen has been working on theirs for about ten years.

That is already very helpful. It explains why things are the way they are. But I am rather shocked at how expensive the MBs are. Maybe it's the result of increasing wealth, with the rich Chinese now sinfully rich, and the job risk for MBs now such that it has to be factored into pricing. Way back 20 years ago their price levels weren't much different from Thailand's and there were plenty whom one could pick up from the mid- to lower-end bars. From your report, technology and economic progress have changed everything.

? +1

I'm not sure whether the the operative factor is the line between spot-choice and pre-booking. I think a shop's management policy may be a better determinant. Let me explain with a few examples: I have found Prince and Arena (both with spot-booking) to be largely reliable and consistent in quality. Not always fantastic, but I have yet to leave disappointed. However, VCK (based on a friend's report (and he is quite a regular there), tends to underperform. Now, why my friend continues to go there despite this remains a mystery to me; something to do with "but I like the look of the boys there!" -- a sentiment I cannot fully grasp. I think there was also a recent discussion somewhere in this forum saying the same thing, that at VCK they often do not give you the full hour. Ditto with pre-booking. Some places, e.g. Jey Spa, and (I am told) BT House are mostly reliable and consistent. Bad apples occur once in a while, of course, and we have to take it in stride. But those places in Saphan Khwai that advertise dozens of freelancers, in my opinion have a poorer performance average. It stands to reason. As freelancers, the shops have no control whatsoever regarding service quality. The one advantage of pre-booking, even in the Saphan Khwai places, is that sometimes I want a repeat session with a freelancer who had performed well before. But in order to discover these gems, one has to throw oneself into the gravel full of freelancers, and make pre-bboking appointments with never-tried-before boys from the Saphan Khwai places. Sorry... it's a complicated answer.

I actually understand where you're coming from. Having myself spent a lot of time travelling around Asian cities, including Chinese ones, whatever initial charm there is in one's eyes wears off quickly, and all one is left with is seeing everything that is wrong, broken, inefficient, superstitious and plain illogical. Massive urban sprawl, congestion, poverty and mendicancy have a lot to do with it too. If there's anything that makes me go wow nowadays, it is the super-modern technology that the top-tier cities of Asia have here and there. China's top-tier cities are in this league. And China's Gaotie (the superfast trains). Previous generations of White people (from Europe and North America) saw Asia through the lens of the exotic. Half-naked children, superstitious rituals, unfit-for-habitation cottages, outdoor baths, meals cooked beside the toilet, and bone-shaking transport vehicles were seen as charming instead of depressing. That generation is largely gone, but perhaps a tinge of that perspective lingers here in some posts which might have led to skewed expectations on your part. As a Brazilian, you're also further removed from the older White perspective. (I recently met a French tour group that returned from Senegal, and they ooh'd and ahhh'd over the photos and videos they had of precisely all that: half-naked children, superstitious rituals, unfit-for-habitation cottages, outdoor baths, meals cooked beside the toilet, and bone-shaking transport vehicles. They had a wonderful holiday, they said. I secretly suspected that "wonderful" meant it reinforced their sense of Western superiority. If I had dared ask them about Senegalese mosquitoes, they might well have had nothing but praise. It's refreshing too to read from what you said about the younger generation: Sometimes, I don't know which is worse - the mostly-gone older generation with their skewed exoticised perspective, or the louder, younger one with no self-awareness at all!