macaroni21

Do you ever have a bad day?

I will leave it to those who can read and write Thai to comment about transcription, but I think we need to accept some variation in the English transcription. This happens not just with Thai, but any language. As for Google maps, I often find that it has outright errors. I have seen errors in road names, tram stop locations, tram line numbers... Even whole churches are marked in the wrong spot, more than 300m from where they should be. I read somewhere that Google deliberately introduces errors so that they can spot when someone has copied from them and violated their copyright.

I find this quite hilarious, really. Why did we all jump to the conclusion that he's the mirror image is us, keen on the paid fuck? Maybe his interests are cultural, historical and scientific. Perhaps he might find it absorbing to do a study of climate change and the sinking terrain of Bangkok while here. Haha.

My thoughts too though 50% is too high a figure. The genuine tourists probably came in only through the international airports. These would number 3.89 million Swampy, 0.96 Phuket and 0.56 Don muang. Total 5.41 million. But the more important thing is the upward trend. Now we just need many more of the gay ones, which the Patpong bars and their prices are probably doing everything they can to deter.

I think this news report underestimates how big China is - it is as big as the US. Most Chinese don't live anywhere near the Lao border. They'd still need to fly to Boten, near the Lao or at least to Kunming, the capital of Yunnan province, to join the train. If so, they might as well fly to Thailand. Once again, I see Thai news as more wishful thinking than cold analysis.

I wonder what happened to the customers who were within the premises at 16:00 and halfway through a massage.... Was the "treatment" suspended and resumed 3 hours later 😛?

Not only Adonis. I vaguely recall at least one other place that did that too, but the name of the place escapes me now. As for bar patrons wanting to bring their own beer into the premises, the bars can implement a cover charge, redeemable for the first drink. And each time a second drink is ordered, payment should be asked for immediately. Personally, I'd long wished for the bars to do away with the checkbin system and adopt a pay-as-you-go system. But given the ridiculous inefficiency of their cash handling and change-giving (deliberately, I know) they must also migrate to card payments at the same time. Or are they trying to hide revenue from the tax man?

I had the same issue some years ago when I tried to count too, and finally gave up and decided not to count anymore.

I have noticed similar behaviour. I think they are on very very cheap package tours. They are probably shocked at how expensive Thailand is compared to India.

Grab works like Uber. Unless you need condoms of king Kong size, 7-11s will be the easiest places to get condoms and lube. What you may wonder is where to find 7-11s. In Thailand, they are so numerous, you can hardly walk 300 metres anywhere without seeing one.

Whichever you choose, it won't make that much of a difference because transport between Jomtien and Boyztown is quite easy. If you like being on the beach during the day, then Jomtien may be a bit more convenient. If you prefer to be conservative, then stay in Boyztown but just hop over to Jomtien every other night or so. Then in your next trip, you can be better placed to know which you really prefer. Personally, I prefer staying in Jomtien (to be near the beach) but have no problem getting to Boyztown nearly every night because I too generally prefer the boys from there. Taking each evening's chosen boy back to my room in Jomtien is, in my experience, no bother at all.

The Silom half of that lane, from Silom Road to the Prime Massage dogleg is called Silom Soi 6, whereas the Surawong half of the lane, from Surawong Road to the dogleg has a different name and is called Soi Tarntawan. So when @reader in his original mention said "Soi 6", he would have meant Silom Soi 6.

I was not doubting that the US law that you cited has extra-territorial reach. What I was responding to was your statement that US citizens and permanent residents "are obligated to observe the age of consent in the USA, not that of the country we are traveling to / visiting." Suggesting that American visitors do not need to observe the laws of the destination country - just because your home country already has a law on the matter with extra-territorial reach - is not the best advice.

I find this hard to believe, though I am no expert on such legal matters. Almost all countries have laws against sexual contact with underaged persons. I don't know of any country that wouldn't apply those laws to any foreigner commiting such transgressions within its boundaries. That means visitors are obliged to observe the host country's laws. What you may be confusing it with is extra-territorial reach of US laws. Yes, some countries have given their anti pedophilia laws extra-territorial reach, which means your home country laws still apply to you even if you are abroad. Travellers from such countries are therefore subject to both countries' laws. Why then have some countries chosen to give extra-territorial reach? One value of doing so is to be able to apprehend pedophiles after they have returned home, especially after short trips abroad. Its easier to prosecute in the home country after receiving evidence from the destination country rather than go through the hoary process of extraditing the accused to the destination country. So, if the two countries have different ages of consent, the wise thing to do is to observe the higher of the two. If the destination country uses 21 as age of consent, no amount of citing US age of consent will help you when arrested in the destination country. Bear in mind too that some countries have one age of consent for non commercial sex and a higher age for commercial sex.

I agree, there is a religious element to this, but casting the issue as one of masculinity, in my view, does not lead to a helpful explanation. I'm sure many of us have noticed that Asian societies can be as patriarchal and male-centric as any, and there are huge sections of the male population who can be boorish and aggressive and boastful of sexual conquests. Where the religious element comes in is from the fact that Christianity is the cultural foundation for European societies. One distinguishing feature about Christianity (and Islam, as you have alluded to) is its great discomfort with sex. In addition, Islam has a great discomfort with display of skin - but that's a separate conversation. Although during the last 100 years or so, European societies have become sexually liberated, it's a recent phenomenon when considered in relation to the centuries of history that has formed attitudes that remain under the surface (among certain sections of society today) despite any new liberalism. The fundamental tenet in Christianity is that sex and the erotic are plain bad. Sex is seen as addictive and distractive and lead the mind astray from worshipping God. Unfortunately, sex is needed for procreation so, for a long time the Church's teaching has been that procreation was the only acceptable justification for engaging in it. For a long time too, the teaching was that even as husband and wife had sex, they were not supposed to take their clothes off and they were not supposed to enjoy it. Any other kind of sex was/is equated with sin, even masturbation. This is the root of that long history of sodomy laws, and wave after wave of moral panic over prostitution and pornography (and miscegenation - but that too is another matter). In Asian societies, their religious underpinning may be Hindu, Buddhist or Confucian (which are vastly different from each other in their teachings), but the interesting thing is that none of them have strong words about sex. This doesn't mean they are necessarily tolerant. But it does mean that if there is disapproval of, say, extra-marital (heterosexual) relations, homosexuality, or prostitution, it tends to spring from anxieties over family security (including inheritance rights) or social order, and therefore the disapproval tends to be (sometimes, depending on the era) "softer", and more situational. The disapproval does not take the fire-and-brimstone variety that so characterised Western precepts for centuries. One example of what I mean by "situational" would be an Asian community appearing semi-tolerant of foreigners engaging in homosexuality, but take a firmer line should one of their own sons do likewise. Foreigners can be labelled "they don't know any better", whilst the scion of the family has a duty to uphold the respectability of the family name, get married properly and bear heirs. A simple way to put it is this: Western history saw the issue as sex and unChristian enjoyment, and disapproved of it in a blanket way for that non-negotiable reason. Asian history was not so much concerned about sex, but about the consequential effects of sex. Since consequential effects were greater or lesser depending on the situation, so disapproval could be calibrated or negotiated.

Interesting how PBS World says this 4.1 was " the strongest quake in the province in recorded history" but our very own PeterRS can quickly find records of 6.1 and above. And PeterRs is credible. Am I missing something here? I wonder if the key operative phrase is "in the province"....

I hesitate to reply to this because my visit was 10 years ago (sorry, I thought it was 6 - 8 years ago in my earlier message, but on checking my notes, it's evidently even earlier). My recollection from a one-week stay in Ubud was that there weren't many massage places obviously visible along the streets (almost surely many more tucked within resorts), and what there were had female staff - with one exception. The one exception was a place called Nur Salon, a property that comprised about 3 or 4 houses in a (cramped) garden setting. It catered to both genders and there were male and female staff. Naturally, I asked for a male masseur. A 90-minute body scrub and massage cost about 250,000 rupiah. What was memorable about it was the setting and the tub. The massage room was open to the sky, with privacy provided by 2-metre high walls. So, I was in a little private garden. One one side was the massage table, on the other side was a tiled pool, just big enough for one. It was just a little bigger than a bathtub. After the body scrub, the masseur led me to the tub/pool in which rose petals had been added to the water. I don't remember whether it had water jets, but I think it did (gentle ones). After a soak of about 15 minutes, the masseur came back to the room/private courtyard, helped me out of the tub/pool and led me to the massage table. But there was absolutely no extra service. A quick google search shows they're still in business. Although there's no website and their Facebook page has not been updated since 2012, Tripadvisor has reviews dating from as recently as August 2022.

Thank you @dscrtsldnbi. I was just wondering whether I should plan for Bali in the first quarter of next year. It's good the hear that the massage places are alive and well and you've certainly made it sound a more desirable choice than a few other destinations I was mulling over. I have only been there twice, with the last visit more about 6 to 8 years ago (I'm not even sure how many years anymore). I too remember happy endings at massage places. That said, I don't recall full-on body contact a la Thailand, but merely handjobs with the guy standing beside the massage table -- too mechanical for me. Which was why I had no urge to go back. Perhaps you could share your experience or thoughts whether the masseur would himself be naked while performing the massage and whether he would climb onto the table for the afters? I also remember bad traffic and having to spend much time and energy getting to wherever I wanted. In this regard, are there any recommendations where one should stay to reduce travelling time to the massage places and the bars? I am usually a 3-star hotel type of guy. If I do get there in 2023, naturally, I shall be writing a trip report.

Here again, another mention... I find this rather intriguing.

This is a good question and I genuinely don't know either, so would appreciate information from those who have experience with Brazil and/or Colombia. From my occasional glance at the Latin American sections of this forum, it seems to me that there is a lot of focus on muscularity and above all, the size of dick, which on the face of it, suggests that the keen visitors to these places are largely bottoms looking for tops. So the question is: would tops looking for bottoms find Latin American saunas, massage or other possible gay-for-pay places too frustrating? This may be a factor in how some members here prefer Thailand. I don't really know but it seems to me to be worth an honest (and respectful) discussion.

But maybe the Thai boy didn't know that in such a restaurant one is supposed to order an individual dish? He could well have thought that, like in Thai dining, one orders 3 - 4 dishes to share. The typical Thai boy isn't as well travelled as some folks here.

Pie in the sky.... again. It so happens that only about a month ago, I researched the average length of stay of tourists in Thailand. There is a graph in my blogpost Will Pattaya revive? that shows that in 2018, tourists from Europe averaged about 17 days in Thailand. Now, these tourists are mostly from the UK, Germany, France, Russia, Sweden, Netherlands, Italy.... All of these countries had visa exemption and 30 days, and yet they did not stay (on average) close to 30 days. Just because Thailand now extends the max stay to 45 days, does not mean the visitors will stay longer. The majority of tourists to Thailand are from East and Southeast Asia. Thai statistics group these two regions together, and in 2018, their average stay was just 7 days. Chinese and Taiwanese tourists were Visa on arrival which meant they could get 15 days. Other major Asian markets were Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Hong Kong, Singapore, and all these visitors could get 30 days with visa exemption. Yet, Asian tourists stayed only 7 days on average.

I am pretty sure they were, (or more specifically, the mamasan was). Just because I said that the tip SHOULD be money going exclusively to the boy does not mean that he would not be extorted of part it by the mamasan the next day. I think the waiter would have been happy with 2,000, in line with the other gogo boys of the bar unless he has a very high opinion of himself as some kind of Adonis, in which case, he won't be value for money with an attitude like that. Bear in mind that however appealing he may look to you, his performance in-room remains a complete unknown. It's an independent variable. You have no way to assume that he is worth 3,000. If I were in your place and am smitten by the waiter, I would try to find a way on my next visit to the bar to slip him my LINE contact and ask him to message me. Rather than off him from the bar where the vulture (oops, I mean the mamasan) would be watching, I'd try to arrange an afternoon tryst via LINE. I would go no further than 2,000. After all, he already knows that 3,000 is unacceptable to you from the incident the other night. He would have no expectation of 3,000 by now.

I checked the distance from Phuket airport to Best Western in Patong. It's 40km. They are charging 800 baht. I also checked the distance from Suvarnabhumi airport to Patpong. It's 36 km, and a typical taxi ride (minus tolls) would be around 400 baht. Distance for distance, Phuket taxis are charging twice what Bangkok taxis charge, and that's only when the authorities step in to impose a "maximum". Good thing you're staying within walking distance of the gay area.

Customarily, the practice is like this: Offing a waiter and removing him from the available staff in a bar (not that bar waiters have that much to do anyway) is usually discouraged through a higher bar fine (off fee), not through imposing a higher tip for the boy, which anyway should be money going exclusively to him.