macaroni21

@Kiwi306 don't keep us on tenterhooks 😲 tell us more about Muscle Factory. What kind of place is it? A bar? A sauna? A naked waiter fine dining restaurant? A car wash? Where exactly in On Nut?

And lots from Taiwan around October 10th.

It's true that I off someone from a bar only about once in 4 or 5 bar visits. Even when I do, I often won't write about it. Firstly, there is not a lot I want to say about sex in the room. Secondly, it's not what my blog is intended for. You may have noticed that even when sex follows a massage, the massage visit report doesn't include any description of the gymnastics (outside editorial policy,😉). Thirdly, the majority of my visits to Bangkok are work-related, which means that I don't stay in the Silom area and I have to get up at "normal" hours in the morning. Taking a bar boy at 11pm would be impractical compared to booking a 6pm or 7pm massage. Fourthly, it is 50 - 100% costlier to get a bar boy than a massage, for no assurance of better performance. Even if I am not on a work trip and therefore have the luxury of time, the years have had an impact. Whereas I could happily do a massage-plus in the day followed by off'd-boy in the night, I don't have the energy or interest to keep up with such a pace anymore. Once a day is now enough. Moreover, over the years I have acquired a short list of bar boys and massage boys whom I contact directly to come to my room. If it's a bar boy and during evening hours, I'd still have to pay the off fee, but I wouldn't have taken him from a bar (at least, not directly), which means I don't have to pay 500 baht for drinks and be pestered by mamasans. I do not write about such come-to-my-hotel appointments. Because they are "regulars" - even if not that frequent - the sessions I have with them are generally more satisfying. In this respect, I actually have 2 Tawan guys on that shortlist, compared to just one from Fresh Boy (and last I heard, he's not even working there anymore), plus a growing number from other bars and massage places. There have been trips to Bangkok where I don't visit the bars at all; between massage visits and shortlisted boys coming to my hotel, I am busy enough. All these factors considered, offing a boy from a bar is indeed becoming a rarity. Nowadays, the main value I get from visitng a bar is to find fresh new faces once in a while, and if they perform well, they get added to the shortlist.

Postponed? Very few of us who know Thailand, I think, are surprised. "Not fully thought out", yup that applies to a lot of hare-brained ideas from successive Thai governments. I wouldn't even be surprised that some minister's relative owns an IT company and has pitched the idea to the minister who then ...

I think it was mentioned a few weeks ago that the bar had been sold to a new (woman) owner. This, if true, might account for the name change, but also the utterly clueless way they go about running a business. The previous owner was an obviously gay man; he probably understood his customers and set operational policies accordingly. Even so, it was interesting you reported on a busy bar two nights out of three. It was also unusually busy at a twink bar: Fresh Boy, when I visited recently. See my report at https://shamelessmacktwo.travel.blog/

@reader is right. I now realise that when I wrote "VIP rooms" earlier, I was actually thinking of their overnight rooms. I have never used these but I recall a picture of it (when One Spa was advertising it) that showed a queen bed. Speaking of One Spa, whereas they used to send out pictures daily, they are now much less frequent in their blasts, and now longer as specific as before regarding the boys' stats, avialability and capabilities. I reckon they've had another change of management. Again.

I rarely read reviews; I don't totally trust them seeing how they are sometimes generated (coming article on ShamelessMack expands on this). As background, if it's my first session at what looks like a Type 2 place, I generally let things take their natural course. I am mostly interested in seeing what happens, what is offered to me without prompting. That way, I can be surer whether it is a Type 1, Type 2 or Type 3. Most of the time, if it is a Type 2, nothing "unprofessional" happens during the session. I get a good massage and then Thank you very much, good bye, see you again soon. If it's my second or subsequent time at what I now know (after a first experience) to be a Type 2, I generally adopt this protocol: Since Type 2 places almost always require advance booking over Line anyway, then in the Line conversation, I typically shortlist to the manager 3 or 4 guys I like and ask: 1. "Are these boys available for [Date] and [Time]?" 2. "Do these boys know how to do body-to-body massage?" (Please be direct, don't use euphemisms like "enhancement" as Google Translate may foul up the translation.) The replies you get will vary. Some managers are clear; others are vague. If they are a clear "Yes they can do," then I follow up with the question: 3. "What is the minimum tip for body-to-body massage?" Regardless of what the reply from the manager is, clear or vague, I will also ask the chosen boy when we are in the room and before the massage begins, 4. "Can do body-to-body-massage afterwards?" (Google Translate may be needed depending on the boy). I ask the boy directly in the room because (a) managers often do not communicate customers' advance requests to the boys, and (b) I want to make sure he is willing to do it even if the manager has said yes*. I hope the above step-by-step guide is helpful. -- * An example of what can happen, see this recent post by @tvkahani :

It may be counter-intuitive, but from my experience with Saphan Khwai places, I would go for the opposite priorities: mattress on the floor and bathrooms down the corridor. Massage tables are essential if one is hoping to get a good quality massage; the table ensures that the therapist has good posture as he works on your body and is thus able to deliver the strokes correctly - by this I mean massage strokes in the Western massage tradition. The Thai massage tradition is oil-free and has too much spot-pressing, which I dislike. At the Saphan Khwai shops, except for one occasion I have never had a boy with trained technique, so a massage table is pointless. The downside of massage tables is that they are narrow and thus quite restrictive when it comes to playtime. A floor mattress allows arms and legs to spill out onto the adjacent floor without fear of falling off. Since the point of going to Saphan Khwai is playtime rather than massage, I would choose a floor mattress room instead of a massage table room in that locality. In other places with good massage technique I would choose the opposite. Note: Some places have queen-sized beds instead of massage tables or floor mattresses. One Spa's VIP rooms come to mind, as do Senso's rooms (but the latter shop is in Silom, not Saphan Khwai). If a room in Saphan Khwai has a shower stall ensuite, it is likely to be 0.9 x 0.9m, too small for two persons. If one uses the bathroom down the corridor, there is a good chance of the boy joining you there.

Here's an idea: Buy a holiday home in Thailand, plant some cacti and hire this guy to prune them 😁:

I have done this a few times too. Sublime.

Virtually all the big city bathhouses are only "onsen" in the English language. The Japanese are quite fastidious to refer to the municipal water bathhouses by a different name: Sento (銭湯). Other terms I have seen are "Hot baths" or "artificial onsen" or "man-made onsen". I don't know if there is a law about labelling, but in Japan, Onsen (温泉) is used narrowly to mean what it means. That said, I have seen cheats (yes. In Japan!) I have seen a city bathhouse say it trucks spring water in from a mountain spring some distance away. They probably add a cupful of spring water to each tub, and try to get away with calling itself an onsen. Haha. But then, that it had to say something about trucking in water from afar tells me they've probably been accused of false advertising.

@kob2024

I can't spot any boy who is on both Phetboy and Glam, albeit it wasn't the most exhuastive of comparisons. Could you give a few examples? It would seem like invitation for trouble for a boy to quote one typical-of-Saphan-Khwai price when advertised by Phetboy, and yet expect a Glam/Jey level price on the other side.

I think you were saying this tongue-in-cheek, but I wouldn't want lurking readers of this forum to think this is the kind of "challenge-the-norms adventure" one can have in Thailand. Spare a thought for the boy with you. Besides, things can get ugly when you least expect it, e.g: However, to compensate for the above downer of a video, here's another video more easy on the eyes, hehe:

I don't know about Bolt, but I have used the Schedule option of Grab. It doesn't work the way we think it should. If, for example, at 9pm you schedule a ride to the airport at 11am the next morning, most of us might think Grab would find a car in advance and fix it for the appointed time. Well, it doesn't! My suspicion was aroused when Grab did not return a confirmation around 9pm with a car plate number. But drivers showed up at the appointed time, e.g. 11 am. Also known as pick-up time. On 2 occasions, I asked the drivers who came to my door at the appointed time what time they received a broadcast from Grab about my request. Both said about 15 minutes prior to the appointed time. So, Grab schedules the broadcast. It doesn't schedule a specific car. Maybe they have changed the system, but that was they way it worked 2 years ago.

I would be careful not to delegitimise bisexuality as a real orientation with comments like "all sexuality is fluid" (which I too consider too easy a dismissal of the empirical). The observation that in prisons, lots of straight-identifying men have sex with other inmates also needs analysis. I don't have the data, but I think there can be 2 hypotheses that can be tested. 1: only a segment of straight-identifying men have sex with other inmates. If this segment is about 25% then it raises the possibility that these are perhaps the innately bisexual men. 2: if far more than 25%, then we're talking about Kinsey 0 types engaging in sex with other men, in which case we may begin to see the activity as one where they are using each other as sex toys for masturbatory purposes. Interestingly, I don't hear of rampant women-on-women sex in female prisons. Have others heard this?

Not from me. There are hits and misses, no different from massage places in other parts of the city. The only difference is that, unlike duds from tonier shops, a dud in Saphan Khwai hurts the pocket less.

er... just to make sure I was not misunderstood... I was trying to make two points: Firstly, even when the massage parlours advertise their boys as "straight", they are almost surely bisexual to a degree; and there is quite a large pool, going by new data, of bisexual boys to recruit from. Secondly, bisexual really means bisexual. It used to be argued that when people identified as bisexual, they were really gay , but were avoiding the "gay" label. The heavy-duty scientific article makes the case that those who identify as bisexual really do show penile arousal to stimuli from both sexes

Yes, I have heard this warning too. However, I think that the FBI warning (as relayed by others) is poorly phrased. I am told that the risk is with using a USB port to charge your device, because the USB is equally capable of transferring data. If you use an old-fashioned electrical plug, there won't be this risk. I am not sure if free or not free makes all that much difference. Apparently using the USB port in your hotel room can be just as risky, but you've paid for the room anyway.

In a different thread (This time bit different), we touched on how the Saphan Khwai massage shops tag their advertised boys as "Top", "Straight" or "T&B". @vinapu has previously commented on what "straight" means when these boys have no difficulty performing in the room. I came across this YouGov survey from 2019 that asked respondents in the UK aged 18 and older to place themselves on the Kinsey scale. Here's a bar chart showing the results, and comparing it to 2015. The percentage at the "6" end of the scale remains quite constant at 4%. This is the percentage who say they are "completely homosexual". The percentages at the adjacent "4" and "5" categories on the scale also seem quite constant. However, there has been noticeable migration from "0" (completely heterosexual) to the slightly or somewhat bisexual categories "1" and "2". In 2019 compared to 2015. In the more recent results, those reporting some degree or more of bisexuality (i.e. from "1" through to "5") totalled 24 - 25% of respondents. The write up at https://yougov.co.uk/society/articles/23882-one-five-young-people-identify-gay-lesbian-or-bise also points out that among younger adults aged 18-24, a third (32%) of them place themselves in "1" and "2" categories. I can't find the detailed data for youngs adults in the other categories; I'd love to see what their percentages of "5" and "6" are, nor can I find any graph reflecting just the 18 - 24 year-olds. If the latest data (especially the sub-data from young britons) corresponds to the biological spectrum (as opposed to earlier data heavily skewed for cultural reaons), then indeed there is a biggish pool of bisexual men who are quite capable of working in our kind of bars and massage parlours. Vinapu does not need to wonder much longer. Even if we exclude those bisexuals who rated themselves as more heterosexual than homosexual, there is still 7% in the categories "3", "4" and "5" as can be seen from the embedded bar chart. "3" represents equally attracted to either sex, "4" and "5" means more attracted to the same sex than the opposite sex. The aggregate 7% in these "equally or more attracted to same-sex than opposite sex" outnumber the "completely homosexual" by nearly two to one. One caveat is that these surveys lump men and women together. It is now recognised that one sex is not a mirror image of the other. That bisexuality is common (maybe even a majority) among women is no longer a contentious argument. On the other hand, men seem to demonstrate more polarity. Therefore, the YouGov percentages may overstate the percentages of gay men simply because of the inclusion of women in their survey. Does anyone know of any recent study giving percentages for men only, across the Kinsey scale? -- Might new self-reportied survey data be skewed too because "queerness" might be seen as fashionable? When men report themselves to be bisexual, how real is that? A study (beware, heavy science: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7414168/) shows that self reports correlate pretty well to physical arousal when subjects are studied using penile circumference meters. Bisexual men's dicks responded to visual stimuli just as they said they would. In other words, we can trust their self-reporting. That biggish portion of people who say they are biseuxal to some degree or more, really are bisexual.

@Verchiele I shall be looking forward to your reports. Whilst I have heard some reports of the burgeoning "onsen" scene in Bangkok, I have never been to any. No interest ever, even though I am a fan of true Japanese onsens. I've heard that - maybe you'll confirm in due course - whilst the original rules in the Bangkok places were full nakedness like in Japan, it was impossible to demand it in the Thai places, so now there is an uncomfortable mix of naked and covered men. Moreover, despite a lot of mutual looking, the places are very strict on new-found couples progressing to "action". Also (if I may be an onsen snob 😉) , what the Thais call an "onsen" is not a true onsen, since a true onsen uses mineralised water from geothermal sources - and indeed the water feels different. Using municipal water and warming it up does not count.

Little factoids like these are very helpful. The bars are incentivised to make money from selling drinks to people who primarily come in to watch the show. The boys however may be the ones paying the price. The offing customer may be marginalised because of several consequences of the showbar effect (no seats left, too many women), and so the rate at which boys are offed may be lower than it could be. To make up, boys (and mamasans) may be pushing for higher compensation whenever they get off'd.

An emerging issue is that of deep fakes; especially pornography. It is now possible through technology to use any face captured in photos and paste it onto other bodies in a pornographic video. I haven't myself seen the output, but I have read that the result is so seamless that it's almost impossible to tell that the video has been manipulated. Such manipulation is often used to humiliate the target person, and unsurprisingly, young women are the chief victims. The problem of course is that however much the victim protests or succeeds in taking down the first video, copies would have spread far and wide. Our resident AI expert @Moses may be able to give us more insight into this trend.

Actually, the US Mint has issued dollar coins. But it's not at all popular for some unknown reason*. The first time I saw such a coin, I thought it was fake. The US has also issued a two-dollar bill. Also unpopular and rare. *A coin is pretty useless for tipping strippers in bars. Has anyone tried, e.g. in Toronto or Montreal? I guess it's one way of making customers tip with a minimum $5. (and boyl have we gone off topic)

If you mean that only about 30% of the time are the boys open to kissing, then I'd say that would be my observation too. I also have the feeling that the percentage may be a bit higher in the slightly more expensive places like Arena, Jey Spa, maybe Prince (but I haven't made that many visits to Prince) + boys from gogo bars, and lower (like 20%?) in the Saphan Khwai shops. More likely than not, though, my experience is just the luck of the draw. It's not as if I have a huge sample size to base my views on.