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With this I mean the general news-like the heads in a newspaper and the like. And if you do-and if you mainly live out of Land Of Smiles and visit is merely-how do you follow it? Which sites or other sources? And more specific about gay news-do you follow that more closely? But what is the interest in what seems mostly to be a change of ownership or open/close of yet another massageshop or gogobar? Just sweet memories?

most likely that 200 THB is the official fine for such misbehaving?! From the distant past, when I visited PTY more often, i was told by several non-ladyboys, that indeed the BiBs would catch them, but take them in a van with irons bars as if they were real criminals to the main office in Cholburi (25 kms nup north) where they had to spend the night untill relaesed next morning, after paying the fine. And then had to pay for the bus back (20 bt or so then). In that same distant past I know of regular raids on unregulated ladies selling body in Sapan kwai, to whom happened about the same-but in much closer by police-station. Apparently though there was also another form of payment, maybe slightly semi-legal as such, avoiding the payment in cash. But when I just saw the heading of this post of yours, I really, really thought it was a crackdown on Russky osobny (=people. the sovietskich tovarischy=comrades is too old by now) having se.. on the beach........ Dirty mind, nah?

I kind of am always intrigued by these questions and very curious as to which palces might exist. I think this discussion hinges as there is no clear definition of what Thai middle class is. Also the bars/disco's mentioned in Ratchda, OToKo (==same as Mochit or Chatuchak) por RKHaeng/Lamsalee are mainly like that: meet places for mating boys, with thunderous musicwhere you go in a circle of friends to consume that stocked bottle of Johhny or else. In BKK the best known other (for anyone-mostly str8) sois catering to the more affluent type of people in their younger stages are TongLor and Ekamai (Sukhumvit 55 and 63, I think). People posting here I think are also more likely to wish for other places. At 2nd thoughts I tend to question what Josan writes- how can a farang enter a bar that Thai say is even unmarked outside? Khun FH rightfully hints to Yipun. I also remember similar descriptions from the old TMOT=The Men of Thailand books. Now look at economics for such a place: there should be a steady supply of well-trained and educated boys to cater for a small group of people. As you cannot disappoint such clients with the Thai ''no have''. Noway this would pay off with such a small client-base. About all of Thailand gay bisnis is copied after the str8. Entertainment mostly means hiring someone for some songs or drinks and doing the ob-aab-nouat= wash, shower, massage cycle. In 1 of those fancy castles with 100s of ladies or you drive in your expensive car with tinted windows into a curtianed off short-time HTL. Who would even note if there was a katoey, lady or 2 or boy sitting also in? So all in all I simply think it hardly exists. People from the west asking about it, I think expect a little more like from a partner: a good discussion, an open eye for foreign things, shared interest. If you fancy that, Thailand is simply the wrong place. The all-compassing higher/lower status simply makes this about impossible.

yes_ I usually return by then-due to end of rains and nice wheather. Kuta and all of Bali is a mess in that time-then it is the rainy season there, which due to more primitive roads etc has more impact as here in Thaild. But around ''Xrissie and 1/1-as the Ozzies say?'' it is also a big messs with drunken and uncouth young sheila's and boozing surfers from there.

for me it is always a good time in BKK. As the above also suggests-even here he wheather is much more changeable as many people think of tropics. Yes-there will be days without rain. if that makes them better-I dare say no. Those rains cool it off, clean the air and make anything greener. Otherwise it gets stuffy hot and humid. In fact I find that humidity more exhausting as the rains itself. Mostly it is 1 big hourlong downpour in the afternoon. Those tables reflect the total water falling-the later in the year you get longer and heavier downpours, but not necessarily fewer or more. It will also depend as to how much you have experienced that type of wheather.

You are likely better informed about that place as I-have not been there since years. But your response cannot be true: now those supposedly farmer rental boys can also see for what to press you: You me give Armani is NO good-now must have Bulgari! This naliga Rolek no good anymore-see here the gay lem-says we must have Patek? You know Patek? Can buy cheaper you in Dubai? Here the new fe-sjun: tomorrow we go Siam you buy me this new T-sjirt-only 5555 THB! and you say : ha-ha-ha-ha!

today, FR 18, same same again. Read it had dropped to 16/18 here in town. ANYone wears jackets, woollies or even blankets and the windows of buses remian closed. Whereas there is usually a winter of 2-3 days around 1/1, when it drops to 20 cels or maybe just below, this is very, very rare for march-with songkran coming in 1 month-when it should be hottest. It is cold blowing winds from the north-so they must come from Siberia via China. But strange that it remains cloudy too. Yesterday I enjoyed a shopping centre, that otherwise would be freezing cold-it was warmer in as outside-some times AC with set temps can even be a godsend. Now I just hope that some enormous thunderstorm and big rain may fall tomorrow, to ensure a short circuit in the kilowatts of the red mobs. Just PraNakorn is enough for that.

what Josan lets us here peep into, seems to me also more like Hi-So. But the problem is more, that what US/AU/EUR think as middle class, hardly exists in Thaild-and if at all, mostly in BKK. I once spoke longer with a boy in a massageshop who had kind of worked in what seems to fit in that category. He seemed much happier in that shop. Somewhat hidden ads you can find in mainstream Thai mags. About massageplaces and the like or entertainment. The many football/soccer/sports dailies also often have loads of ads for that-but more for workers wanted! And yes-it is a kind of closed society, hard to get yourself into without introduction. But if you can, I really wonder if that would be worth all the trouble-if you know some professional Thai and have lived here long enough-out of Pattaya- or even worked, it should come as no surprise. haughty people with their nose up in the air and sniffing at farang-who are always thought of as being dirty-even if they shower 3 times/day and do not wear the right set of labelled clothes as being ''in'' for the current weekend.

Dear khun LW. For Sapan kwai you do not really need a map-all the few remaining bars/karaOK are in 1 soi. And there are sauna's and 1 ''dirty cinema''not into your wished for category nearby. Close by is OToKO or Chatuchak- chanegs by the week or so. Moreorless same same for Ram-all the ars are in a private soi at the end of that road near Lamsalee crossing. Just wander down and you hit them all. The best maps-of sorts, quite distorted if you are mapfreak, are in those free Thai monthly mags like MAX etc-the maps are bilingual. With a good allofBKK map should b easy enough to find. Sapan kwai is near BTS, RKH is not-also the ARL (new airpttrain) is quite far from there-some 4-5 kms. I mostly go by bus. it is near the MALL bangkapi-can go on the klong SaenSaep boats, but these stop b 19.00=far too early for these bars even to open. I rather doubt if you will like OTK or RKHG-that is mostly student type young Thai boys, in their very own style of table-dance disco, come in a group of friends to share that precious bottle of imitate whiskey thunderous loud music and no apparent match-making. (google for and then search the older ricequeendairy.blogspot for some entertaining reviews of vists there). SpnKw karaOk bars (and the 1 remaining Gogo=Be HIGH) are more used to farang, though it is mainly speak Thai only and can be good fun if you like that type of ''entertainment''.

thank you for your kind compliment-I will pass them on to best dear friend of 12 years, who helps with most of that. As we know each other for that time there is no real need to peruse those sites, so I am not too familair with them. First some cautious words-also relating the gay mags in another topic. Or about Thai bisnis in general. It opens/close at an alarming rate. One aspect of Thai doing bisnis is that you start too big, expecting an enormous market to turn up without much effort and then get disappointed. You have to cut back expense. if you have lots of prepaid (subscriptions or the like) then you go broke, restart under another but quite similar name and forfeit all those deposits. Travel agents flee with prepaid ticket fees. Better even to sell your bisnis to someone unsuspecting and make more money out of it. Like Head/Heat, or these dating sites. (many seem to be linked to those free give away gay-ad mags-there are more of those in Thai only). If it is worthwhile I cannot say-I do not know your aims with that or criteria. As you most likely also know, most farang use gayromeo or thailovelinks and this seems to work fine enough for them. A new one on the block is moke69.com-quite more brazen open as most others-for me surprising that it is not censored. Dekchai (=child/male, thus ''boy'') is dexchai or dekchai69. From what I saw you can subscribe for free with limited package (dont know if you then can see the pix of those you may be interested in) or pay normal or VIP-450 THB/6 month. Noone will bar farang-as long as you either pay and/or are able to use and read the Thai script. I have noted that in other countries many of these sites also ''rob'' from one another and I really do not know if that also applies to these. I guess the best answer will be forthcoming by posting this as a general Q on the general board of gthai.net. But again then you need to find a Thai friend to write it for you-and later to read the response.

The mag 1st issue is now on the shelves, it cost 120 bt and ahs about 160 pages and is apparently in stock at most normal Mag-outlets and even some supermarkets etc. see also a posting of dear khun FH in ''vanished Thai gay magazines'' topic. It is 99,98% wrirten in Thai (all the main texts) and has 2 'gorgeous guy'' series- 1 of dreamteam (also on cover-again see FH for link) -whcih seems suspiciously fotoshopped to me, and 1 of biker guy. Main article is about ''How to turn ONS into LTR''=one night stand and long time relation). and there is lots of fe-sjun (fashion) and gadgets so indispensible to the metrosexual guys. If your BF is the tipical Isan farmersboy, he will not likely be very plaesed with it as gift. The tipical DJ-rental boys will love it.

see my answer on other of your posts-I am not repeating this all places. Re this subject; just again by chance i passed the Mochit Mai Northern Bus terminal yesterday and one of the private mag/bookstalls had 2 gay-aimed (mainstream-not frontal nudes etc.) mags for sale-the febr or march issues: I am GUY or PASSION. So clearly they still exist and are for sale at places also common in Eurpe-lots of people passing by anonimously.

and back to the original subject: Just by chance I was in the Sai Thai Busterminal (which is quite far from town-do not go there just for what I now mention) which is mainly yet another big shopping plaza with buses underneath, on the floor where they sell the tickets is a 2nd hand bookshop (more mag-shop), named Booknet. They had some shelves full of these mags, the correct name should be HEAD. Also many issues of I am GUY (I think this is no more. These were not really 2nd hand, but more like non sold copies of older issues. Plus many of those modeller mags-how to become a model (very popular in Thai-also for becoming airsteward/ess). What seems to have disappeared are the mags ''where you can see anything'' (Poh in Thai). These always cost a lot more and the reamining old used ones still sell for 2/300 THB. But DVDs with the same on it are sold openly on some markets for 4/100, both western, Japanese and Thai. There is no competition against that possible.

the above is only partly ''true''=according to facts. 1. there are No set St routes at all (for the all-blue things in PTY proper), even though they have a nr somewhere down that indicates one. (that is the 23=Cholburi) then 008 and on. the lower nrs. are in Cholburi and Sri Racha). The main execpeiton-nothing is ever true 100% here in LOS, are the Central-Jowmtien shuttles. 2, there is a system of SECTION fares-that may explain the 10/20 bt. On any of the prescribed (but not usually completely followed) routes there is the basic fare of 10 (Thai 5) THB. As soon as you ''use'' another segemtn (even if its just going the red lights into Central rd or so), you have to pay 2 fares=20. The ring 2nd/beack is 1 section, the shuttle to Jown=mtien is, the sections along Cenrtal and North rd. are, etc. 3.the best way-for money/bahtcounters to go to like 3d rd is to take a ST to the crossing with that, get off (or hopefully see if it might even turn into), and wait for another one after the crossing. That means 20 bt (2x10) at the max. Infrequent means-not a dozen per minute, but maybe you have to wait like 2 or 3 mins. Thai people wanting to go there usually use handsigns to ask driver if he turns or not. 4.frankly-even though i know many farang claim it is, once you know how it works, a fine system, it is a total ripoff. Add to that the tuktukmafia style money grabbing of 99,99% of drivers [as everywhere in LOS-they smell a good job and it gets totally inundated with too many people who then note it is not making that much after all). Here in BKK we now have 100s of brandnew yellow Chinese built citybuses, full AC, that charge a flat 10 bt fare-for klod say=all the way. That may mean a ride of well over 1hr. and over 20/25 kms. but there are also 1000s of older, govmt. owned, orange AC-buses that charge by distance-up to 24 bt-for the very same routes sometimes. And also a few 100 of all free but old and nonAC red buses. If you can figure out where they go-it is, yes, free.

1.they are. For the Thai market, those twinks do not appeal at all. And as these mags are written in Thai, their appeal to the farang/tourist market must be minimal. 2.HEAT (if I remember correctly) is still edited. I saw (and together we wenst through it) a very recent issue -nov or dec.'10=53 in a massageshop. 3.in a day or 2 BKk?Thailand will have the pleasure of getting a new mag aimed at gay market (some interviews reviewed that mainstream mags hitherto were sold as aiming at ladies), namend ATTITUDE. 70% translated rom UK/brit and the vrest made of of (likely trendy) Thai interests. I think I mentioend this also recently in a separate posting.

Just by incident I stumbled on this book, a brand new and expanded and adopted version of an earlier one. Written by B.J.Terwiel, a Dutch professor in Thai language and history, taught in Leiden/NL and the later years in Goettingen/DE, both very famous for East-Asian studies. It has over 300 pages and price is 795 THB, edited in Thailand , by Riverbooks. A mainly scientific and objective description (as he compares both Thai and Burmese and other reports on main events in history) from the early Sukhothai/Ayuttaya period up till last years demo's by yellows and reds (a picture of a ceased army tank for the Democrazy Monument is on the frontpage). His last chapter gives an overview in which he compares his diffferent views (and all the problems research in these matters gives in Thailand) with the state-sanctioned Thai schoolbooks texts. It will interest only a few of you, but every now and then there are questions about history. It is well written, not too dry-scientific and has some vivid descriptions f.e. of daily life then at the court and in the streets of Ayuttaya. Chapters on all the Chakri-dynasty 9 members, etc. If you really want to delve into other facts about this loveable country. Last edtion sold out pretty quickly and books edited in Thaild tend not to be easily available elsewhere.

and you believe (still?) anything in a newspaper? -and you are not aware that this artcile-recent news, was from 2008? (and-it firmly reminded me of nearly the same scripts from various other newspapers/mags from even older years) -and you are not aware that travel-reports are the most notorious for being ''bought''-directly or by pampering a journalist/or a group of (BTW-the TAT here is also quite good at that-must nicely fit in the fame of the everlasting corruption and how to play that game here in LOS) -no not grumbling-I just try to point at the other side of things-some people may make a balanced opinion. For a generally objective and mildly positive description, read any recent guidebook-like Lonelyplanet and the like. Most other Qs you may have are also answered by that. The main drawback to the o-so spoilt gays (not able to sit more as 30 mins in a thing called bus), is that there are no air-services. Nearest airport is PnPn-some 4 hrs away by bus (the road is good). They even seem to renovate the crumbling decrepit railway (Sih is also Camb's main port) and there may even be a new passenger service in a year or 2-3-4. TRAT airport in Thailand is even shorter by, but as you need to cross border, connections are worse.

From 3/3 till 13/3, so started already, an exhibition under thsi name will be held at RCA-Block D, 21/108, Ram IX , soi 8. Tis is a well-known BKK ''entertainment'' private street (meaning too much booze, too much overloud music and not that much police in). It surprises me it is held there, as by day it is about dead. so enquire about opening times (0-2641-4040). Collages by artists like Panpan Nakprasert, Ohm Pangphiroj, Mark Robbins and Rene Smith. The short announcement syas it explores Queer Teory as an academic discipline, a short interview with the female rene lets her talk about collages from US-mags from the 50/60 ies she makes with nude male models. If it attracts people, you may not like the exhibition, but maybe find contacts with interested Thai. i would not go out of your way to get there, unless you have too much time. I mentioned a few days ago that this street now also has 2 gay-themed disco/KaraOK opened recently.

in a few days the first issue of this new Thai monthly magazine, aimed at the gay market (probable the supertrendy HiSo) will be in the shops. It was felt there was a great need to fill in the gap as no such magazine exists here or has. If it is a translation of an existing mag (as I understand this is a well known USA publication?) or simply another Thai copycat, I cannot say. I am just mentioning it to point out what Thailand also has to offer. If I spot one, I will try to browse it and tell you in which shop (doubtful if the normal chain shops like SeeEd or B2S may) stocks it. (BTW_ I never quite understood why this word has got such an other apparently derogatory meaning in the USA as its proper, scientific-psychological has. But then I am not from there and not even native english).

re [1]-if that was same owner, I do not know. But APACHE as mentioned was in Sapan kwai-in the houe left when the famous Midnight Cowboy moved a few houses further on-catching in on the unwary going for the old address. Oh-in fact (but thats just scratching memory) the bar opposite Tawan has never been named Apache-it was Torpedo or some other rocket-type word (maybe even Boomerang-at that time a very famous Thai tophit song by the famous mr. BIRD=Tongchai McIntyre, also rumoured to be ''like PLU''). The captain/manager was the well-known khun LEK-of former Golden Cock and later on moved to what is now Solid around the corner. He now is said to run a massageshop in Jowmtien/Pattaya. He really was/is a sweet guy apt at giving you the best advice. [2]-at that time was probably right, but this also applied to many bars along sukhumvit. it is in fact still quite common among places aiming at hi-So Thai-they simply assume all farang are bad behaved, stinky, loudmouthed and ill clad (as if Thai never have prejudice?). I guess you asked the very same at another board I just left-swsd-g-th-so read the rest there. (here in thaild swd-g-th is often inaccessible, so I sit now among a lot of schoolboys having skipped school to pay noisy games).

when I used google to find this, and a few related sites, this (apparently thus paid link) this site travelgaythailand.com came in top. It seems to be a sub-brand of expedia.co.uk (a very well know ''leading'' as they say, name in www-air and HTL travel bookings), promoting travel bookings to the country we all come to and like so much. Besides this name, it offers nothing, except a few copycats parrotted from other sites. It recommends the ROSE hotel as a good and ''hidden gem'' lower-budget accomodation choice, as they say it is gay-owned. For the young and backpacking budget-crowd they mention various hostels-shared dorms (which BTW cost more per bed as a cheap single room in the real backpack area of Banglamphu). (on bangkok.com, there is currently also a list of the top 10 ''must see/do'' gay places in this big city. Are there still gay-aimed/owned specific travel agencies like in the USA or UK for that?

see the excellent blog by macaroni/mr. Mack: shamelessmack.blogspot. Frankly, there is No shop that consistently delivers only good massages. In these shops it/well we all go for, a combo of massage plus some afters. it is very, very rare indeed for both to be equally good. And its a personal matter: about a shop that A raves about, B finds it mediocre. In any given shop, masseurs vary a lot and they often also change jobs in an very fast rate-like about anything in Thai bisnises. V-club and adjacent Chakran sauna clearly aim at the Hi-So Thai clientele and do that with high pricing (if its too cheap, it cannot be good, nah?).

LUTON For those unaware or lacking European geografy: thats about 50-60 kms north of London, and started as the first base of EASYjet-long long ago (when you had to fone to book a flight-as www was in its infancy). KL/LCC is a shiny well-developed facility compared to that shack. People who complain about being bussed are simple unused to or have no real experience of much airtravel. (Thus I think their answers should be disqualified.) Oh no, now that I recall (these questions revoke more memories) there is even one more utterly sober to the grade of disgusting passenger processing shack, or, well was; COVENTRY, just a little east of Birmingham (Brum for UKers), which for a few monthes was used as the ''base'' of a low-cost flyer named Thomsonfly-it has ceased operations and merged with something else since. In both Luton and Coventry there are NO airbridges and even NO buses-you have to WALK-even if it snows, rains or an britsih storm blows. You may even have to pay to use the WC. There are maybe 5-6 seats alltogether, for the elderly and infirm. Satisfied dear khun FH/ After all both of these are not even run by the BAA. (or whatever that Heathrow and Gatwick running monstrosity getting so much flack lately is named?)

there is already a fairly short stretch of it-between SIAM and the Rajprasong crossing, a skywalk, which is a kind of elevated walkway, along the pillars of the BTS=skytrain. This lets you walk off BKks infamous pavements, which are notoriously uneven, with uncovered drainholes, many other obstacles, and if not, taken by enormous crowds of vendors of all things unwanted (but psst-these are poor people, so can only be handled with wollen gloves, they say. Now the BMA (thats the city council, kind of) proposes (it seems not yet to be finalised) to extend this type of walkway all along under the BTS toward Onnut and even the new xtension (ready, but not yet open-wait for the new trains delivered) toward SamRong, beyond bang Na (a grand total of over 15 kms). Remains to be seen how they solve the going around the stations/stops, but never mind. So you can then save the skytrain fare and walk underneath it but in the shelter of the shade of it. Nice car and busfumes to inhale, as you walk right above them. And another 15 km of space easily to be taken up by yet more poor vendors, as the police wont come there to patrol (the Thessakit may-but they cannot do much more as chase away). Promised to be ready in 2-3 years from now. As such not a bad idea, but remians to be seen how they solve all that. And construct it without too much interruption to Sukhumvits traffic. No things said about Silom-there it would be much more wished for thing! But I guess the notsopoor vendors there will block any attempt at a construction.

re KL/LCC-how long ago have you been there? the INTERnational area has been modified en expanded a lot since about 1 year. And though it indeed is basic-no-frills, it is now not very cramped, has more options for food (also after the checks-can be taken on board). The former common area is now for domestic MY only. And just outside-behind all the buses, is a new (but also barn-like structure-nothing new for those used to BigC or Tesco here) malay foodcourt with many offerings at near-normal town prices. OMD-I know some RYAN-only airports in Europe that would improve immensely if they could gain that standard. or take Dublin-so crowded thatnot even one more mouse could enter at busy times-only for check-in.