pong

did youkow that: 1.indeed 10.000s if not yet more, NoKo's are working in China-to be exploited by both the Chinese and their own govmt that way? 2.that indeed a few 100 NoKo's slip via China to VNam and Thailand etc-to eventually rerach SoKo-but that many are caught underway? Even more dauting as the tipical Iranese etc longing for Australia? 3.That even in some EU countries-due to old contracts, there are NoKo's working in factoresi 'as slaves'' as the common description usually is, notable the Czech republic? 4. The best chance to opening that country IMHO is when even CHina reaches the ends of its rural labour reserves to man its factories and they need more unskilled labour. Plus they are the meekest sheep anyway due to their beloved regime dear leader with eternal skills born in a rainbow. BTW-the price level in China is a fair lot higher as here in TH-so I cannot understand why that country is always singled out as the culprit for the USA as being manipulating its exchange. VNam does it even more.

since years and years I come to TH just to ESCAPE that Xmas thing. I do not want tesco carols, no jingling bells-plus that noone even seems able to conceive that not any farang is english or english bred and shuns that ''tipical'' Xmas food-we have our own type. Why not schoener nacht- heiliger nacht? A streetside stall with a 30 bt plate will likely be it. And-thanks cheap airfares- I fly back on 25th- on some mainly muslim airline, so we'll see what they make of it.

no this is not common. But it happens- like the old verbum: expect the unexpected in Thaild. HiSo is more and more getting the same status as VIP once had-untill they start misusing it so much it looses any significance. There is also a noodle chain in most foodcourts of tesco that is named as such- nothing remarkable, just that all bowls cost 5 or 10 bt more as usual. Stopping for pangs of hunger-that 24 hr Thai crave for the khin khao- is more common. ON longer bustrips you often can hear the people ask when that stop for yet another bowl of rice or kwaytiaw is going to happen to the moneyboys. Here in BKK the private white citybuses often stop at roadside stalls that staff know for -either ordering food to be collected on the backtrip-or for a quick buy. Even happens for unexpected bargains spotted- 2nd hd trousers for just 79 bt or so.

You most likely know that ''legal'' does not say very much here. But ''zoning'' to a certain degree- the owners of JT complek=where all those bars are do NOT allow gogo in their building-overabundant clear stated in any lease contract. There seems to be (but have not been there not interested in it at all) some limited lady gogo further on in JT. But why bther so much on that? plenty of other opportunities without that overloud music, not even attempt to dance, high pressure mamasans, etc. to endure.

All the good stuff is already gone-long ago. The remaining things are not even worth going into- plus that the figure of disocunt says really nothing. That NYer-who chooses the shirt of 99,99, NOW 40% off-and not looking next shop, where the same shirt hangs for the real price, but no discount: 49,99. You do the math-they cannot.

the bigger chains have to deal with their distribution centres-thats why Tesco is hit so hard. If these are flooded or in areas with many roads inaccessible, then you loose. The 7s mostly get provided by the original factories or middlemen-they get a constant stream of small vans, whereas a Tops or Tesco gets 3-4 /day delivered by their own large trucks with assorted things in. Re original topic: it really is BKK only. Yesterday went into Nonthburi-as soon as the signs welcome you to the numerous attractions there, the rubbish starts. Along the Kanchanapisek=western Ring Rd, most of the trees and bushes, many dead now, along the LA-style freeway were hung with all possible kinds of rubbish, empty bags etc. and here and there those heaps of thrown away things from houses the newspprs tell you about. Vague stench still too. Even if you walk often remaining stagnant pools of stinky foul water and slippery mud. Perhaps thats the difference between FROC and BMW-remember how soon the BMA got the waters pumped out in many areas?

Out of curiosity from anonnative English: What do you, native english or amerinlish speakers, think is the difference-if there is any, between these words? The main meaning is obviously the same. Words of course have more sensitive meanings, that may differ between countries. To me it seems B-lo is more american and maybe a little more affectionate? But correct me if this is wrong and how you think it should be looked at?

most of what you specify or now seem so anxious about is completely out of tune for PTY. This brothel by the sea brims with 1000s of cheap rooms, that all have AC, most also a small fridge and a TV_what is on varies re channels. They tend to cost 4/500 THB/room in lower season and NOne, repeat NONE has isseus with what is the bread+butter bisnis of all PTY-bringing in guests (really, here in TH it does not matter at all if that guest is same-sek or not). MOst also offer in-room safes, some are payable and I have never heard of rampant theft, though it will likely happen occasionally. The banning of former smoke tough-this is TH and can never ever be garanteed, unless you spend a grand for a hi-so HTL that caters for the specific needs of quaint farang (that is about the way they look at that here). There may be 1 minus: these HTLs mainly cater for the str8 single -often tattooed-''blokes/mates'' and thus you will see many couples (that is-if you even hit them) of male farang+Thai lady. Also in tipical Thai style, cheap places do not advertise much on www etc-you simply walk in and ask if there is anything available. Pay for 1 nite only-there may be noise or other issues you only find out when there-if so, move on next day-choice a plenty. In PTY there is ample ''bahtbus'' available 24 hrs, plus a bevvy of motosays etc to bring anyone safely back-how drunk they may be.

Now I do not want to start panick and all that-and when you happen to live just a few 100 mtrs on you would not even have notticed, but the last 3 weekends the redshirts -and possibly other groups, are on demonstrations again. Came back into BKK on last sun in nov- the afternoon there were the familiair trucks with flag waving redshirts and their overloud blasting music riding around along Ratchdamnern-then just being opened up for the festive week for HM's birthday celebrations. On sat 10/12=constitution day, the redhsirts were having their mob (this is just a neutral Thai word for any demonstration) around the monument for the democrazy, from late afternoon, staring with the butch-like massageladies setting up. Prime goal seemed to be selling the 2012=2555 (hahaha!) calendars and many Tshirts in red with Lady lucky crab (phoo yingluck) on them, telling: she is RICH -she is BEAUTIFUL -she is OUR MAN! but I have not seen anyone wearing that out of those mobs yet. Not that many comers and even though they like to disrupt traffic etc as much as possible with as few as possible followers, not much could be done even. Overloud music and a few of those speeches, alas they can not now ask for Abhisit to step down..... Yesterday eve again at same place-but I am not sure what group it was, as red was not much to be seen, nor the butchy massage ladies (otherwise you an avail of their services in the Big C at Lard prao-opposite soi 94, halfway near the exprway). Overlud music and the usual speeches and sympatising rockband, but it was pretty early done.

IF new people or as yet unfamilair with how Thailand operates ask these words, they alwas mean just this; VISITOR friendly? In Thaild it does not matter if that visitor is same sex or not. In general, if you only have a single room for just 1 person, then there may be rules about it, that is why in Pattaya these rooms are not even sold.

further to what khun FH and now the gentleman Xian from south of the border said: I well have fond memories of various bars in BKK and ChMai -and in fact Pattaya too, first even Boyztown (maybe even before they started labelling them as such) and then Sunee, and this was due to the FUN factor. GoGo is not fun-it gets pretty boring very soon. Ditto for the shows that all bars copycat from one another. Might also explain the continuing success of telefone and across in soi 4. That you were made very welcome even if you did not take off, that jokes were made, in short: where westerners would go for a bar too as back home, without the money being all too obvious. Or: like the Lamsalee and OToKo bars here in BKK work like-but for young Thai and all that comes with that: overloud music, table dancing, these ''sets'' of nasty cheap wiskee, the obsession with beauty=-white skin. It seems that the slowly but surely dying of gogobars and less growth of massageshops is the least so in Pattaya-and that must surely come due to its holidaying public, which cannot be categorsied very easily.

From here in BKK; last week I went to 3 areas that were seriously flooded-up to 1m50, for some weeks, like Pinklao (west of river), LardPrao/Tachda and Sapan Mai. It was amazing to see how CLEAN it was there-nothing of the usual rubbish that litters in BKks streets. The only thing to still be seen was here and there some brown marks till how high the water had come on some buildings. All those panicking newspapers about disease breaking out and all that garbage are not true. I have since heard that the BMA has an efficient post-flood plan and comes in with a host of clean-up and trucks to take the rubbish out. But when then the people come back and start cleaning out their houses-many throw out all damaged furniture and that makes heaps to carry off. In Sapan Mai-just mainly dry since 3 days then, on some parts it was still very slippery due to the sands and mud left behind. In the tescoLotus there the groundfloor shops, incl McDon, looked ravaged, all floortiles were broken up and there still was some stench. The Tesco itself + foodcourt is on 2nd (1st for EUR) floor and hence not hit. Also interesting what I learnt about those low walls that so many have built for protection in front of shophouses; Useless! When the floods came, they tipically came first underground-via the drains and sewers-thus leaving the ugly mess locked up in your house! Meanwhile the army was still busy providing free shuttles on lowly flooded roads into housing estates and also now seen many armytrucks to take away the now useless sandbags. Though the airforce is prominent in Sapan Mai=just behind DonMuang-nothing to be seen of them. Meanwhile in the temple nearby here are still donated goods ''from the Buddist in Malaysia'': containerloads of Malay drinking water and several boats. It seems more important to show how generous the believers are as to actually distribute those thinbgs. Followed up buy another containerload of ITALIAN aqua minerale-FRizzante (sparkling)-which will also help a lot to those still in the floods. And a real rubber blow-up rescue boat also from there. Maybe also pious buddists or Thai massagegirls struck by a good heart overthere.

Maybe for you if you are interested in some special festivities: You have missed these recently: X-size 4 yrs birthday, soi Hotmail, 30/11 Castro-the new HiSo gay disco on RCA (Royal City-always notorious for police raids on yaba and underage punters), 1 yr, 8/12. With several not-that-famous Thai ''dara=stars'' noted! THE big main celebration will be no doubt 25 = TWENTY FIVE years of TAWAN, the most famous bar with special niche market in BKK, soi 6/Near Suriwong. On 27/1/12-just in/after Chinese New Year. This must surely get the biggest crowd in history, unless they price it out of any sensible range. OCEAN boys, again soi Homail, 1 yr on 20/12. ICK in Lamsalee-in faraway Ram/Bangkapi, the birthday of manager- 18/12. For the festive Xmas spirit: X BOYS (again Hotmail): on 24/12 the sexy Santa Claus contest, on 25/12 the contest named toobig-too long, which seems especially fitting for this glorious day. In case you have never been: there will be some freebies, like birthday cake or fruits for the clients, drink prices may or may not be jacked up, at really big partiesthere may be an entry levied and resevrations done. Most include various contests, in which the clients may or may not participate, usually some form of ''mr Hensun''. Which kind of surprises me, as once the pecking order of the best beauty has been made in a bar-why repeat this every month or so? This comes from a mainly Thai free mag: DESIRE, which is an incarnation of formerly Variety mag. To my surprise on its ''dara=star'' page it now even shows local famous Thai (well-anyone who has ever been on TV is such) visiting places like Jey-Spa and the like.

There are so few of them in that area-notably only Udorn-due to its history, that any conclusion would fail. Probably also indicates that demand is infinitely small. There are a few more gay venues in big cities, Like KhKhaen, Ubol, Khorat, more the KaraOK/Disco or sauna. Isan people want cheap, low prices and lots of fun=cheap booze. If they have to shock up, they most likely want hi-so in their opinion, thus white skin, non-tipical Isan. I refrain from voting, as I also hardly have been into any gay bar since 5-6 yrs. have looked plenty of times into them, notably soi Hotmail, but the boring allways thesame and shocking prices barred me. Slowly slowly all the bars are dying, the least so in Pattaya though, and get replaced by the instant-s.x providers disguised as massageshops. Nonetheless agree with all above me: the very best of success with your venture. And thanks for the nice pix. If reviews after opening are so positive, I might even change idea and pop in. Always open for new or interesting possibilities. Maybe in visit 2 I might even bring in my old dearest best friend from Sakorn Nakorn.

jo-jenau-das isses/war es. Sitzen hier auch noch 3-und deshlab streitende DE neben mir die mit 3 in mehr als 33 min eine AirAsia flug buchen wollten.

when I log in to this site, then I simply get into-and the current map you see first is for massage places-all over Thaild. The pins are in blue or green-1 for real gay (click on-the details usually then say min tip=500 or so) and general palces-that may offer more-this even includes Healthland. I think they relate to their forums, mainly Thai (many are quite funny and informative about the masseurs). The sauna-list they work on (they told me)-a listing in englsh is easiest to find by going to the forum-scroll down and find the list-click on and you find deatils-at least the maps (but mostly Thai only). The other gay bisnis sectors-like gogo-are not that attractive for the mainstream Thai gay and thus I think are for them the last resort to work on. The google map takes some time to load, but works pretty well with all the usual features google has. Thus I only wanted to point out things that may be intersting for more people-I cannot explain nor help with non-loading etc. And dear khun FH; oh yes, in another forum, which I will not mention, but it starts with cr---, there are numerous reports about people trying to find and visit such faraway places as Superman or 8,5-taking busrides of 1hr+ and walks of indeterminable length. PLus: one respected member of this+other forums lives in just end-of-floods Sapan Mai-some 25 kms away from the Silom bubble-but with some 5+ massageshops whithin 4-5 kms of that place and 2 sauna's.

you did not give any clue as to what price bracket, service level or size etc. As a basic rule, only the high-end places are to be found on the web. For lower prices-find any HTL day 1 and look around next day. This way you may also avoid that you are being tucked away in the worst condo they have-''sorry all full''-as the way it goes simply clashes between the general ideas of westerners and how Thai think about it. But in Pattaya-being so used as a holiday retreat, this may apply less as in more normal Thai towns. Next solution is to go by rec from someone here-about the building they live in or know of nearby. They may even be persuaded to make some form of advance reservation for you--by walking in in person.

ON this newly revamped site: www.mangosociety.com wou will find a google map with listings attached for all known Thai gay venues. I think it is based on their (mainly Thai) forum. To my amazement (I have to try it out more) for just BKK-city they list well over 200 massageshops and over 50 sauna's-many in outer suburbia, so likely not that much of interest for most of you. I had estimated both to be about 40. However, I think that some massageshops are just that-though there may have been the odd ''more service''- but not very regular. What I checked, most of the pin-spots were also actually right-a thing that googlemaps for BKK is often unable to do. The site is linked to MAX magazine-one of the free monthly giveaways, mainly ads and listings. It used to be tmmsociety.com-but this seems to have changed to some Facebook chat-and I do not do that, so no comment on what is in.

As we nearly alwys get labelled as GLBT or so in the utmost political correct speech when it is time again to demise the horrendous discrimination etc we seem to have to endure, a note on the L, for Thai. We noted a newly launched magazine Attitude about half a year ago. There is an already longer existing ditto for the female sisters, now in its 28th issue and for sale at nearly all mainstream Thai magazine shops, like B2S and See-Ed; Tom @ Act. It was wrapped, so now no comment on what is in. Sometime ago someone asked/wondered if the Thay gay mags (now mainly pictures) had vanished from Silom. yesterday eve I noted 2 stalls brashly openly selling then: on Suriwong, near to HTL of that name, close by to Mantra massage and on Ram IV-between 7 and that HTL that changes name every year or so. No rental boys to be seen there though. In the monthly free mainly advertising mags, there is OUT in Thailand-every month, to have its 1st anniversary in Jan 12, MAX, Thai Puan and DESIRE-which seems to be a new name for what used to be-sorry, leum, forgot. PLaces that advertise in them have a stock of them to give away-as long as it lasts.

about earsplitting deafening loud music: walked by soi Mensgate/Hotmail yesterday (yes, the very 1st time this time in BKK for me)-just to see what has changed, and the level on entry from Suriwong was also full-blast untill the next 2 gogobars or so. And the touts there seem to have calmed down on about dragging you into their bars/shops/etc. But why do not these masageboys do that? They seem the best fit fr a short try out?

arr in late oct-and through without wait-then the 30 min wait was for luggage to come on. Why bother if you wait for A or B? Arr back sun 27/11- and the usual 30-35 min wait in line. My tip: search for Qs with too many mainalnd Chinese and Russky-they hold up for ages-cannot read the forms, d not know that to write etc. Or cough up and pay the xxxTHB for ''bisnis class-fast processing channel. Not that this will speed up luggage.

Some time ago the then launched new monthly mag ATTITUDE was mentioned here. The editor, GRAMMY (=about the Virgin in THaild, but no trains or planes) has now also launched a dedicated TV-channel (-sorry-forgot to jot down which one) aimed at the same group, the trendy-in urban metrosexual. Sales of their mags are flat and they hope to attract more interest and a broader (and thence better paying) advertising from more companies. Maybe if youre bored in your condo try out all UBC channels you'll find it. NO diea what te content is- yet another talkshow with katoeys?- or even if it is mainly Thai or not. Just to mention as times seem pretty slow on this board and any piece of potential interest in the theme.

On my last full day in KUL-sat 26/11-they already did it there, but disguised as RED CARNIVAL. In the Sungei Wang shopping lot in Bukit Bintang, but obviously not gay-themed. Lots of cute young Malays passing out info and selling bags with some logo for 1 MR=10 bt. Not a condom in sight-but tehre was DUREX with some stand.

NO- not ''airport''. THis is from what the GURU says about it-a few weeks ago (the weekly add-on to BKK-post). IT has not just 1 but a separate theme for every floor- I thought it was all mediterranean, but there is also one floor dedicated to SFO=San Francisco. QUOTE: here are some reasons why to visit this new T21: a.to try out the high-tech JPNese toilets with all the extra add-ons b.you are BKKian and set up to spent most of your time in the newest shopping mall c.each floor is decked out in theme of some famous city, also Paris. GREAT for even more facebook foto's with you and the Eifeltower! d.it beats sitting down and watching TV-3 about the floods (this shows how old it already is!). END Quote-rest is my interpretation. Then the article goes on about the many eateries-esp. a new JPNese ''find'' and some quirky Thai-Reflections. Go and try for yourself if you like overpriced food. SOme small secret: also applied to Paragon when it opened the few yrs ago: the best way to attract crowds of Hi-So thus well-moneyed Thai is to have some ''famous well-known Thai'' walk around, seen shopping or dining. Minor ones like now Tata Young or Paradorn-the old tennis-star for half a year- will do-the public can even take foto with them-, but those in this weeks GOSSIP, SPICY, OOPS or the like are better-and come at a great cost-and wont be able to foto. But worth the investment. Pwobwem is: you farang will not have a clue about why those Thai get so enthusiastic about them.

Maybe we have a more common taste as you ever imagined? After all we found to like the same weekly mag-though I have not found any recent issue since I came back here last week.