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For In TH there is hardly any choice left, that holds to all criteria you mention. Places with cheap rooms are everywhere, but the organised gay life will be missing. Phuket might fill the bill-but its not cheap. Or try to arrange some GR-meets. Even though I stay myself in BKK most of the time, ChMai is my favorite place and has all you need. What is the reason you skip it from the list? I myself do not like and thus do not do beaches-others need to tell you more about that. DO note that the TH NewYr=Songkran is at 14/4 and starts a few days before with a mass-exodus. Then the water-throwing comes-take heed!

myself having come back to BKK in the meantime-very entertaining report from you. Re Arena: they say that about any boy to any customer-also about the real dud I got last time-turned out he was a Muay Thai boxer, had no tattoos, but had drunk way too much the night before and was still half tipsy. 1/5 for that. And again it shows that looks do not say very much.

My situation is that I can only use what the shops/places I do computer provide and f.e. this one there is no choice.

Have visited lots of such places and it really differs-it does seem to me they all have their own ''policy''. Places reviewed here recently, also in other threads, clearly all belong in the tourist-class. Some are hardly ever visited by Thai. Thai places mostly give you all the time bought, in some boys were even a bit anxious to leave before the time even when I said it was OK. Nearly all have clocks somewhere in rooms. Interestingly, overstay hardly ever leads to asking for the higher price. But then i really wonder why they need to know beforehand how much time you buy-nearly all also register the ''working times'' of their boys. One pays afterwards in 99% of cases. Some places have a variation: they tune in on the piped music, that rotates in hours. More experienced boys mostly have their own routines for set timings. I have been in Hero only once and will not return. Other as so many of you I was not delighted with the service I got. I think they better make it like a conveyor belt-they have those massagetables on wheels anyway already-and have all boys do what they do best and pass you on to the next. Mostly in touristy palces their aim seems to be to get you in,come and out as quick as possible- that now closed Bodyclub was a specialised for that. As for hero: the min. time is 1 hr. if you buy more as a start, it should be clear to the boy that you will want more servicetime. As said: most will have a kind of routine they will work, with plenty of time for you to do your thing. I doubt if a real str8 would want to stay much longer if the aim has been achieved. That some boys in some places may work with captains/receptionists, may also be temporarily. In Thai places, the reception will know a lot about what boys will do what and may suggest. For that you need a good knowledge of Thai.

1.I think the writing method of that old book I quoted is likely best. I would write the first word more like kwoy. 2. anything that ends with dai mai is a QUestion- like can do? 3. toot nom for ''suck''? (this nom=milk, also breast for lady). ANy Thai I know calls it ''smoke''- or rather sa-mohk. Thai is mostly ''sup'' like soup. Sorry- rigth now too busy to delve in books etc and preparing to fly over in a few days.

There is a book "Thai for gay tourists" by Saksit Pakdeesiam which I own and have read once. Paiboon publishing, 325 Baht. Thats a kind of copycat of the book I mentioned of Eryc Allyn, maybe a bit updated. I saw I paid 110 Bt for mine....(2nd hand) The other books: Outrageous Thai, from a SIn editor, Tuttle Books, Periplus edtitions, saw it in Kinokuniya, has an extended chapter on s..x/ual matters. Deep delving Thai slang. In the bedroom, out of trouble, gay-''friendly'' with many chapters to discuss between lovers/prospective marriages. Gets edited every few years, i do not know if there is a current edition, printed in TH. is more background, useful for those perhaps thinking of long-time relations.

there are already at least 2books-for sale in Thai bookshops (but 1 of them may be out of print by now)-both are standing in my home here, whcih have about all the slang/expressions you so worry about, for english speakers about Thai lingo. 1 is general str8, but mainly about sex/relations and 1 is slang in general-and not even printed in TH, but Malaysia/Sin. Both also have Thai prints. Then there is the by now long out of print from the late Eryc Allyn (the books TMOT-the men of Thailand-before it all was on www) with the WISYWIS system: what you see is what you say, mainly about gay relationships. Am not @ home now-will try to check titles/ISBN. There should also be much more already on the www (BTW: worldwide us gays are known to use much more foul language as the usual ''general neat'' would print in dictionaries etc. Kwoy (not to confuse with the word for buffalo-kwaay) is common slang like ''dick''. For males among males. but Thai lingo is extremely rife in double-meaning words.

have been tehre twice, but so long ago, that its by now hardly any worth. Did about same trip, but as I usually do, all by myself and on train/bus. Price level should be in between TH/MY and India-but as writer and I assume most of you are only interested in the bisnis+ class, this may well be quite different. At that time still struggles going on-did not leave such an impression that it appeared on my list to come back. Abysmal food, I remember.

more details then please. About how long ago? BTW-Thonglor (which I always nickname as golden boy) is not soi 58 but 55. It used to have some gay palces, also sauna, but these have moved out (I guess rent was far too high for them) already several years ago. There also was for some years a very Thai place-that banned farang after a few monthes- in sois opporite it, name was like ''studio (nr##). TL does certainly have the name of being sometimes quite farang-unfriendly Hi_So Thai ''among ourselves'', and that of red Bull young brats riding hi on coke and smashing their new latest brand of Ferrari/racing car.

Aqua (its full name-also on the walls was Aqua-Pan) was owned by a Danish man (you used to get a danish chocolate when paying at the end) also ran a sauna for many years-this has closed a few years ago. There were many signs in danish inside. It seemed to be a kind of side-affair to a furniture place beside. It had about a full collection-several cub.mtrs, of about any Thai gay mag that was prinetd since 1980 or so-I guess most were as proofs of them advertising. Shopuld be very valueable to some kind of Thai gay history-movement. I guess the land in that area is really very pricey even for BKks standards. ALBURY is also reported as closed since about 1/11. Got few visitors since it moved away from the old palce in the fork of Sukh.11 to the new place to far out in soi 24. Same woner also runs JEY in Sukh. 41, near end of (short )soi.

Yes-but this also varies per bar. Difference between BKK and PTY-prices has more to do with the teamoney to the brown boys where the protests are now so against. Corruption. F..k off to Dubai (I hear it every day). Note that sometimes, while they allow you to simply hire an off, they may charge you more-for the assumed miss in income for not selling drinks. If in BKK they would ask for taxi-money, you can always tell to wait for the free bus (yes, there are-they serve about any main road). And in PTY its 10 bt (5 mostly for Thai in the know). Or that you rather have soophap kwa.

some more explanation: THAI msg is done with clothes on and will usually not give much of thes eresults. OIL msg is obviously naked and you shower before and after. It requires a different technique from the masseur as Thai and many of the guys do not have that ready (most Thai can do Thai msg as they get it from about birth). I think this is possibly the explan. for our lieber Christian. A variation of oil is named AROMA and is with flavoured oils, in fact cream is the same, but with cream. You can choose the flavours-they will have scenting bottles. menthol or peppermint may be with it-or not. Takray=lemongrass is my favorite. Oil as such is mostly babyoil, but can vary a lot in quaility and stickyness-the bad ones take more times to get it off as putting it on your body. Some shops also offer gel msg-with lube. There are loads of basic mistakes that boys can make with oil msg, the old shamefull mack listed them somehow. In BKK boys sitting outside is for me a sure sign that its is main tourist zone or an ordinary msg shop. The ''secret'' code is to ask for oil msg (or cream/aroma) from a man, this is simply code for ''more is wanted''. Also if a high min. tip is mentioned, you can be sure more as just msg will be offered for that. In most places I have been to, in such cases msr. started naked (50%) or just in slip or shorts or phaakamaa (sarong). I prefer the low mattress on the ground, but many places also have western style msg beds and some offer choice. LOoks to me you have the listings from nickygaybkk, due to quote about Banana (that they are all gay is certainly not true for 100%). On the site thaimassageboy.com many of the further away places advertise and many more on thai sites like tmmsociety or gthai.net. On TMB click on pricelist for basic info-subscribe to see more of the boys and info.

excellent report-esp. as you amazingly changed HTls etc. in the same stay. Just some minor amendments: ARL-City is 45 till Phyathai, 35 till Makkasan. Takes 28 mins for the whole ride. Overcrowded in peak times-new trains have now been ordered. 25/50 satang coins come in dark and light copper too. All supermarkets have prices ending on them Stored value on BTS is called Rabbitcard and for now valid BTS only-cooperatiion is planned, but TITs. It cost money to buy the card and untill 1/1 there is a 2bt lower fare charged (fares were upped in june/july-as for now rabbits charge the old fare still). They also can have prepaid 20/30 etc. rides-any lenght-to be used in 1 month..

Good extensive report, indeed approaching shamefullMack. How dit you find these places? That personal experience can differ I can confirm. I was not so happy with Hero, nor with dirty unkempt Arena. In the more Thai style places you do not discuss tips, for Thai the stated min. is simply the tip expected. If you come back, my rec. would be a little further along Sukhumvit; Albury, Jey. Banana is just 1 of many in the tourist zone Sukhumvit, but has indeed a very informative owner, a Singy guy named Calvin.

BKK-big city has aorund 40 of such places. They are spread all over town and most are quite hard to find for those unfamiliair with this bigcity and how transport works. Nor is there in fact much reason to go out to many. The usual listing sites list them, mostly now with maps, google etc. Try gayscout (tries to list all known, maps not always correct but in roughly right area), travelgayasia or google for nickygaybangkok-which has more descriptions and limits to tourist zone. Then there is the site known as cruisingfors..x.com which has an extensive in-sight section, but mostly a bit dated now. I will never say what is best-thats so personal. Best known is by far Babylon, near Malaysia Hotel, so populair among white tourists it has often more fat older whites as Thai in. Some others seem to attract mostly Chinese and are said to be sticky rice=that means Asians for Asians only. But there are no set rules nor entry-regulations (except that you must be >21). Some are mostly populair after work-18-21.00, others are known as weekend night active. Many of the suburban Thai ones also offer free drinks and/or food and sometimes even put on shows. Entry is mostly 200 max.

YOu singies (where I just returned from this week) are misled by your PAP to believe that riots galore and that any Asean-country out of SIN is a total mishap, as PAP is not the leading party with the best for its people. THey also manipulate the Straits times etc to make you believe: ''we singies are the best!"' You have indeed the highest prices in Asean, yes. (sorry-this is just the 12345th very same Q on sites ike Tripadvisor and the like, all from Singies and all repeating the very same). Do not worry-in your cosy tourist only ghetto's there is nothing to fear or even to see or note, except on TV. It is very well known, that the current opposition-what TH has, other has SIN (I know it has-but too small to even tell) is BKK and the south, yellow, but they mostly wear black T-shirts now with red/white/blue=flag colours wiht whistles.

dozens of fairly reliable sites and newspprs. MOst likely is this: that friend has heard that in Ram-some 15/16 kms away, yesterday eve/night 2 people were killed in skirmishes between redshirts, being called upon from Isanlands to get paid for coming to BKK here in the big stadium there in clashes with protest-supprting students. Now student brawls-even leading to wounds and sometimes death-are no news here and happen near daily, though more between vocational ''colleges'' that are all bombarded to be ''unis'.. Some even say that the students misuse the protests as flag for those ongoing brawls and fights. I really DK what the truth is-if one could even ever find ''truth''' in this. THeir leader has called their gathering at stadium off and sent them home. Maybe they lack the money to pay them for longer time. Ram has for PLU the Lamsalee bars and sauna's like Farose2 and some 2-3 more. it is also TH biggest uni with over 100.000 students and is a real cheap student area. I do not see any ''riots'' here and a much more fun and sanuk atmosfere as was during the red -also rent-a-mob- protest 3 year ago at same place.

AVOID it-unless desperate-nearly complete run down, closed half (it was 2 adjacent shophouses) and in dire need of urgent repair. There is also Farose 2 in RamKamHaeng-very active late eve/in then night @ weekends.

from other reviews: They now have a Minimum tip of 1000-which is fairly normal. BUT: their ''therapeuts'' also have ***** ratings-the more of them-the higher the tip. Could be up to 2500

no, its not-at least acc. to various people doing it there as other places-notably PnPn-are much more difficult. The new ruling IS confirmed by several posters in various general tourist fora. The countries benefitting are the G7-as was pointed out somewhere else. Would be nice if they could extend it to the G20. @Rogie: this is VERY different to airline and also to airPORT-notably OZ is always reported to very stringently insist on seeing tix out-I had no need at all boarding my BKK flite on EY 2 weeks ago from Europe. Again: general fora are, I think, ,much better informed as here for visa/enrty matters and also: ALways ask for nationality, airport and airline- it will be different all the time and do not make any presumptions untill these are cleared.

was there just 3-4 days ago. Main change: the m2m msg in Liberty HTL has changed name/hands. Advertise on Thaimassageboy Waterloo-an old standing KaraOK-bar is now under rebuild and is to reopen as also an m2m msg shop-will also get website from TMB Got a fairly strange feeling this time-in the past I was always welcomed, whithin a few mins speaking to some doorstander all news would be there. Not so this time-many Indians suddenly- and a feeling of being ignored by will. Farose sauna: reported to be so downhill-and half closed, that only the truely desperate would enter. The old Adonis in soi Elisabet HTL has closed at least 1 yr ago. As for sauna- 39 underground main one remaining-said to often have large groups of mainland Chinese.

Having passed by there I did not see any. Lots of fairly attractive guys, but none that struck me as outofthe ordinary in such places. Not curious enough to go back to that soi.

of course there are direct citybus-nr 52, from MOchit BTS-this bus starts at BangSue MRT/SRT stations. It now has as only English word ''immigr'' on it. but its a nonAC private thingy. And loads of vans. All set you on the main road, and the office is more as 1 km in the compound. At the right times there are also direct AC-buses from BMTA -mainly for the workers- from the Vict. Monument via expressway. As you pass 2 booths, its indeed a fairly high toll for cars/taxis. NOte for this site: there are loads of m2m special massageshops along that main road, Chaeng Wattana, only advertising in the Thai press. But they only open from 14/15.00. To relieve the pressure of you.

helo Christian, bin also gestern spaet hier angetroffen-arrived back in BKK late last eve. Plane-Etihad, also full of Germans-many of those not able to speak a single word on english-their Thai GFs had to do the communication with the steward-an awfully gay-ish Chinese. NO, Boy is not a tipical VNese name-thats more like Nguyn (say like ''win'). Lao-boys can easily be compared with Isany's-thats mutually interchangeable. VNese do not need a visa for TH-as its ASEAN-same for Thai visiting VN=-for max 30 days though. 2 years ago during the floods I stayed for longer in KUL/MY and met a VNese guy working in some (very hidden) massageshop, who was setting up some kind of ''exportline'' for VNese guys to do that work. Many were also half childs (from US-soldier pa's), these mostly have a very hard life in VN, but may be treasured by the tipical Chinse Malays. Having white skin is even much more as here in TH a desirable feature in VN. I assume they ticket on that to get better paid ''jobs'' here. There is a sizeable minoriy of half-VN/Thai in some Isan parts-my old long standing BF was such a half child (father VN, ma Thai). Thats the part that gets into the news for the dog-export, around Sakorn Nakorn. Bad news for me is that 2 of my favorite restrts are closed and buildings sold/leased to better paid expensive farang places.