pong

Sorry for the delay in this: @ Baan Vinai-=Baan Theva, sorry, my mistake, wrote that whilst underway and could not check. Baan Theva is just off Satorn, near Chong Nonsri BTS, easy to find. MOstly has Asean customers who reserve advance, Neat and tidy place, mostly Khmer hosts now. It wants them to take ''official'' training at the Wat Pho centre, which shows another cliff: Asians adore it, whilst most whiteys find it more like an impersonal factory. Recommended if you fit in that profile. For those who like to know: Baan Vinai used to be a giant refugee camp along the Mekong in Loei, mostly holding Lao/Hmong, after the communist siege in Laos. Most were resettled in the US-think Minneapolis, Sacramento and the Cal farmerlands. The 1 yr long time ago I worked for over a year in TH I was supposed to ''help out'' in such places, though I mainly dealt with the then Khmer rouge/noir camps as site 8 near their border. @fedscor: that guy with the blog was shamelessmack, but by now its some 5 yrs ago and most places covered have closed anyway. I somehow remember der Christian has succeeded in getting the full blog as PDF, but unsure. He can tell. Before that blog the same mack wrote also on the site known as cfs=cruising for s, still exists, but is as good as dead. (bb Thailand, now SEA=Asia). Was often very entertaining and even more outright open as some posts on this forum-which is getting more lively though. @numazu: opening times are flexible, as are most things in TH anyway in this field. Most m2m places open around midday, some claim to be open 24 hrs, that only means you can wake up some sleepy staff- more likley they can open for fone bookings. If open early there will in general only be limited staff for hire available. @myself-having arrived now again in this B&W BKK to stay for 30 days I must say I had good luck in his lotteree twice- but that was Burmese and Khmer prizes. @vinapu: I see you also intend to arrive soon. Well, if you are in for some exploring into some more undiscovered Thai places on reach with some public transport, send me PM and I can provide some. But dont expect Arena-style offerings.

Ji. Note that Ampawa is only weekends-and late in the day. Its also still faiurly populair among Thai, so not too much of the tipical tourist-trap. Coming back to BKK in the eves may be challenging-except for taxi's. What U write about m2m/normal msg is very much the same here in BKK-me myself came back into BKk 2 days ago and just had a terrific seance yesterday eve. Bars/gogo are very well used to visitors from anywhere and their specific likes-so never will alco be pressed upon you. For just normal msg try any shop, there are 100s in any touristy area of this big city. I would consider that Dr Bear as a tipial m2m-sex aimed place though. Dan selamat jalan, ;lah.

Thats really a nice and modern subtitle from you here! About your Q; you've probably posted it before, but I think (vinapu probably did more, but just the other day i counted them and my total of visited m2m such shops is now 25, of which nearly half are closed already) the main question here is : do you speak enough Thai and are familiair with its customs? My best rate of success was in ''only Thai'' shops, far away from that touristy centre. in fact my best current BF worked for some time in one of them (very close by the Don Muang runways, also closed now). For the rest in more accessible places: it does remain a lotteree, even for that so often praised Hero (closed anyway now) without any garantee on the success you so vividly describe here. Its just that chances (at least for me) tend to be higher in Thai places. Also it seems that those longing for well-built hunks topping only are likely better in places like Prince, Arena-early in the day. Many of those Thai places do train their workers in real massage skills- a place like Baan Vinai (just off Satorn) even wants them to go to that Wat massage school. This place mostly aims and gets Asians as customers. @Jasper: if you really mean that, you do still have a whole world to discover. @anddy-right so, except that in most such massageshops (and i call Prince not a ''regular''-its a very clear m2m disguised brothel, very much after the same model in 100s of such str8 giant places/shophouses) you must select from picture (foto or nowadays tablet) or line-up so much less interaction before as in gogoplaces.

Chris knows BKK very well and is the best for low-budget things. Personally I've seen 'rooms'' for 1200 bt/month, but thats without electric etc-the total will come to 1500 too (1US$=about 34 bt, check xe.com for todays rates). In the Khaosarn/Banglamphu backpacker area you can find such rooms for 150/200 bt/day, mostly NO visitors allowed, no AC, maybe even only cold water. The official minimum daily wage in Th is 300 bt/day and many Thai have to live on that and pay everything from it-most of them however club together, share space, eat together etc, which cuts cost However, there is a very big BUT: as above-you canNOT just work in Thailand [police is very, very keen on finding foreigenrs doing that (as I guess they are also in el-Misr). and you can only expect to live on that amound IF you speak+read Thai-it has its very own alfabet quite different from latin/arabic/chinese etc. You have to find out yourself, but I also think you need to apply for a proper Thai visa in advance, even as tourist from el-Misr=Egypt. Then they mostly want to see return flight-tickets. There is a very large arabic community living in BKK around Sukhumvit soi 4 and there are also pockets of muslim people local Thai, incl. some outer areas of BKK (Minburi).

some hopefully explaiing facts then, though I did not read all above 1.Patpong IS an private road/street, as there are many such in BKK and indeed TH. Thats why ''anything goes'' there. How it looks like has nothing to do with it. I thinlk thiw was already just printyed in the oldest LP or other guidebook from 30/33 yrs ago. 2.most of those vendors were not Thai anyway, but Burmese-though I assume a lot of them were more the ''inbetweens'' not caring too much about borders/ID. All those sudden empathic cries about poor souls are also quite wrong: it must have been a ''job'' that paid off well 3.the first big such market moved out was near to the SaranRom park and there the ''original'' dirty DVDs etc were openly on sale-just rummage, some stands even had them neatly organised in ''farang/TH/JPN/ etc. All sold for 20 bt/each and some 6 for 100. They all had large signs in Thai with ''P'' on it (thats letter poh-for por). I had some BelAMi's from there that all worked well and still do. Our dear Chris-tian has reported this market, which mostly offered 2nd hd stuff (had also some nice shirts for just 35 bt/3 for 100) moved to a new place just over the river from the southern Thai/Sapan Phut nite-market, but I 've never been there (yet). Others mention other parts of it have moved to the old SaiThai BUSterminal space in faraway Pinklao. Conveniently for you there is also an only in TH advertising M2M place there (@pinklao).

@ Hero-incarnation. Check TMB-pricelist, its called MY hero (sorry for that), and adress is like 65 sukh. 11-which may in Thai effectively mean soi 11 or 65-up to you. Forgot if their was a tel-nr for asking. If you still stay there, a walk in soi 11 would not be overly far to check both nrs, I guess (no idea what the old nr of Hero used to be). But there is as of now not yet the usual TMB link to prices, map, boys on stage etc. Actually Super Hero had a ditto small ad some weeks ago and this disappeared without the big site coming up. As a kind of routine I check that site every week or so for news. In the distant past they used to mail all updates, but thats long gone. However, to see pix of boys you now often have to log in properly. (plan to move over again to by then hopefully rains-free TH in a week or 2 for winter/cold season, but do not really aim to check that out-hate that soi).

Till 31/1/17: free entry to such places, if owned by state of Thailand, Does NOT apply to national PARKs (nature), these continue the very unbalanced higher farang-fees. Newsppr explicitly said, it was both for Thai and farang. F.e. in BKK National Barges museum, Royal Elefant museum, historic parks (ruins-often neatly renovated) in Ayuttaya and Sukhothai, etc. Afraid that good old Pattaya has nothing in this respect to offer. (source: forum thaivisa and khaosodenglish).

Hi MIke, hanks for your reports-make more of them! @ Hero: you've probably read about SuperHero in faraway samRong (just beyond final stop Baring on BTS+long walk), apparently set up by an outgrown former Hero ''therapist''. Rather basic/Thai style with small staff-unclear if still in bisnis. Now on the TMB site is a new Adv for NEW HERO- stating an adress in (again) Sukh/soi 11, but not yuet open. Just wait and see, or pray and hope? There was also report that either captain or maybe again some former Hero-worker has taken over the former MAR(s)/renamed Club 61 in Sukh.soi 61-BTS Ekamai-opposite. Dont know about what is true of it. Perhaps it suits dear old vinapu better to explore when he's bnack in town, but maybe you can also get adventurous enough to try out. On Prince: earlier reports are that the (Chinese lady) captain/''mamasan'' was only after money+more money and made loud bets (in clear Thai-apparently she never thought of any farang understanding that) with the boys on stage about how much the tip would be. Thats enough for me to never go there.

Well, at well we thus can deduct that the recent try-outs of the new Thai junta-aka as govmt, did not stop this bar-visit trade. For those not understanding: a week or 2 ago they shut down quite a few tourist-bisnis, incl a tourbuscomp. with some 4/500 coaches (thus capapcity x50 seats each), who were dealing in ''0 baht tours''=in CHIna you pay nothing, but you are fleeced by being shepherded all day into special shops/tours/hotels/restaurants-etc. Biggest menace was most likely their clever tax-avoidance in TH, Chinese being chinese after all, or nah?

Have been tehre once-but long time ago, when it was still trading as MAR(s), with the owner in CHiang Mai. Nothing special, but quite OK. Too far out for me. Since then it has changed hands and name as ''club 61'' as it is located in that soi. Lots of construction work of flashy new condo's-I assume these are mostly finished now. On TGA I noted that these 2 places were listed to share the same adress and wondered if it was deliberate (maybe one sits on floor 1 and the other on floor 2-nothing is impossible in TH). Cannot say if this perhaps is the new venue where HERO lies his eyes on-from what I remember its far smaller. NOte there is also Thaimassageboy.com, which did list mar+club 61 long ago, untill they got their own www. It very recently listed that SUPERHero in far out workmen-suburban area of sam Rong-Vinapu has made it there with some other ones in tow. It turned out that a clever and through age outgrown former Hero worker had set up this basic, of not a bit shabby place. Same thing happened with the old Body Club (Sukh soi that lives on in unmarked premises in soi 101 or so (see TGA -it recently got listed). Frankly: I cannot really understand all those questions of ''how is it''- unless it really has something very outstanding special all such places are like 13 in the dozen and it all remains like a lotteree who you get and how it works out. Even though I myself tend to completely avoid places were visit 1 was quite bad, even this makes not much sense (unless it was aimed theft or the like). Christian even goes back once to check if it was by chance or not, I dont. THus somehow my mind makes me also think this might be intended free publicity/promotion, as GM promotes GM. But thats after having to read millions of pages and all the same questions in travel-fora etc, like TA, due to work in the travel industry.

you were before me, saw this too, but I kind of recall BEST was/used to be somewhere near soi 4/Silom and has vacated there a month or so ago (vaguely remember another report about this-forgotten where). Probably dear Christian knows more. Anyway- advertisers on TMB generally offer more as just plain msg-as you most likely know. But I would dread it if this involves that wheeling/dealing/bargaining one encounters in non-professional places. HIS has also had yet another name in that old location (is it still visible as such?-must by now be at least 5 yrs ago) and was known for its freeweheeling tuktukdrivers doing double jobs.

have not been in PTY sinc many yrs, but have visited many of the BKK ditto places, tend to go more to the suburban Thai-aimed places-those that vinapu mentions are more the english-speaking touristy venues. Full listings can be found for such places on travelgayasia (with some reviews too) and thaimassageboy.com site-log in for to see pix of boys. Most of the Thai places charge around 5-800 THB for 1-1,5 hrs of oil (pay that after at desk-no need for extra tip), this includes the drinks before and after, towels/shower etc. You will be offered a choice of ''aroma''- nosmell=may mee khin. Most of these places now also post ''minimum tips'' which you hand over to boy after the session- this is mostly 1000 bt-in fact in Thai it mostly only says ''tip'' (there is not really a plain Thai word for minimum) and you can take it for that. What you actually get for that does remain a kind of lotteree- there is no relation with the shop, how the boy looks like or whatever. My practice is to keep regular with a boy that gives good service IMHO-and that always pays off greatly. Those places in soi Twilight (BKK boys, Bonny) are often said to go over asap to the sexy part and try to finish off also asap. To steer that is what you mention as: for that time I am the boss.

Passing by in Germany a few days ago and if I have to wait I go-old fashioned-style, to look and read for free in the station magazine bookshop. Well in Germany they still have an amazing wide variety of gay mags on sale and display (only non/soft por there), incl one named Spartacus (remember that name??) abouty gay travels. My country does not has any left in old-style print. There weas an article on our beloved Thailand, which of course brought hardly any news except this (nor can I remember it having seen/read in any forums): TROPout PHuket will be repeated in nov. coming, looks similar to that songkran-time BKK festival, mostly attracting Singy's and other ASEANs in the hippest of new fashion and stylish outdo's. Site tropout.com, but gives no exact dates. Also on New Hebrides (you know where that is without googling?) spring '17 and again Phuket nov '17, if you have to plan long time before. Site: tropout.com It also mentions sunday-afternoon meets at a Hotel either named (V?)WXYZ in Sukhumvit soi 11, apparently close by the demolished former BED spaceshp (with that Banana massageshop from Calvin round the corner-moved since)- does anyone has any info about this, has been or knows its already gone down the drains? As for going out: no-brainer, you guess: DJ and GOD

@ diff. between TH/western guys: Have not had that many western guys and what i had was not much inviting to further following this path. Comparing figures, and just restricting to the BKk m2m massageshops, which are essentially only male brothels in some thin disguise: there are far, far more (in BKK around 40/50) of them as in any major western city-most will have an average total staff of maybe 20/25, but on most quiet weekdays maybe only 5 or so work/wait for customers But what makes them most attractive to me: at least in the aimed at TH places, they learn their trade, have to follow short courses/training (weekly or monthly or so, among them from an older and very experienced masseur) all aimed to please you. And most of them will do, and can nicely surprise you with it. Give them the chance to do.

it says tickets are 1999 bt (apparently not the usual pre-sale discount) and food+drink is free(or rather included). Says ''party (foot)ball-shorts= kangkeng ball. I think its ''meenakhom=march, thus must have passed long ago (not 100% sure, I always confuse those monthes when I am not there).

Your Q is too absolute, that there is not an overabundant system like in the (in the minds of many a USAer spoilt) West-Eur countries, but there, as khun lung GB also points out, IS some forms/elements of it. Most are only for wokrers, with registration (which yes, leaves many out), and there is also a 500 bt monthly allowance for OAPs, there is the former 30 bt, now free, free health scheme and there are quite severe payments to be made when people loose the job due to the company. GETting all that is another matter. In local comparison, its far, far better as all surrounding countries, bar MY-which also explains why TH is such a big draw to undocumented workers from there. Esp. the poor Burmese have a knack-and many a NGO behind them-to get all the entitlements. I have also talked to many people who deliberately choose to work for the Thai govmt to get even more benefits, mostly medical.

YOU-western customers want that-they mainly deal with Aseans who think of other priorities-besides, Nantra is by now a small local chain and I guess they simply have a standard room-layout and service model. It seems more aimed at budget-bisnis-people-and you must have seen the banks and offices other side of Silom and along Satorn. BTW-they often have stands at the 2-year Thai Travel markets in Sirikitte Centre (which I have to visit mostly)and then you can buy local-people cheaper coupons to stay there-some Thai holiday-dates are barred for it.

as for BKK-we had that very same Q not very long ago-maybe on one other of the 3 fora. I would not call Saranrom ''cruising'' as its only MBs to pick up there. Cruising means (for me) meeting a like minded guy also out for something to happen in mutual understanding+agreement. That can-sparsely-happen anywhere/anytime, at least in BKk but pretty much anywhere in TH-but it eats excessive long time, you never know when it will happen etc. so for the visitor with limited time nothing to go after. Indeed-those apps/sites, well known have mostly taken over it all. Even around the well known Boysgate/Suriwong/Ram IV area the MBs have simply disappeared a few yrs ago alltogether. And yes-just as at bars-it also hit or miss or pot-luck what you find and what they will do-or not-or how they look like along Saranrom. Untill roughly about 1 yr ago there was also a thriving nite-market not too far from Saranrom-along the same canal, which drew hundreds of people-it also sold naughty things, incl Poh-DVD-s (20 bt each- I have a few of belAmi rom there) and kinky underwear. Where as indeed most Thai customers get there by taxi or car, walkers are certainly not unheard of and there is always taxi/tuk waiting to speed the happy new couple away to some love-HTL. You may also try out the work-out gym-area IN the park-closes at 21.00, just before-mostly Chinese guys. The rumour mill has it that as month ends, before pay-date, the boys on offer are more. IF you really are dedicated into that, preferably LIVE in BKK long time and know the city and its customs, then try that other forum so named: cfs, Thailand in SEA.

Another possibilty: just buy/rent it-go to any of the many massageshops that offer only men as ''therapists''- a long list with prices, pictures etc is on the site thaimassageboy.com or on the gay listings on travelgayasia.com Thai sauna's esp. those in BKK, can be hit or often miss and are not at all a sure way to find what you want-and can mean hours of wasted time. of course your age etc will also come into this.

agree with about all above-the last 3-4 monthes this is indeed the most lively forum of the 3. Small remark re GBT: I think/remember you have to SEND khun lung GB a personal mail to advise him you want to join-a kind of ''ballotage'' but that is mainly to keep out bots, machines etc. he then manually sets you in and sends a passowrd etc. But then he usually also turns in here sooner or later, so he will advise about this. And a minor remark/quibble from me: I use compters on many places and thus do not log in when i start to read. Do that only when I think I can give some answer, but then the system is set such, that you have to go through the whole process again from start to Question-in other fora you kan keep stayed in the actual Question/topic.

Plan B would be to point him to a few other bars-maybe even Par=ttaya-where guys as you describe him would have more chances. or Plan C; instruct him in how to set up his own bisnis online in attracting customers.

Hi Ryan-first of all: talk+ask. How did he come into TH anyway? And-assuming he is a real Burmese, documented +all (do not expect too much in that field), is his permit still valid? if not-prepare much more money to bribe the border guards. If I remember well you are canuck? (well, if its US-same holds): so you DO need a valid visa for Myanmar=Burma and you MUST get that advance -either from the embassy (On Satorn) or via an agent +commission. Its valid for 30 days. AND think/inform yourself about your status/visa when you come back into this TH. It IS now possible to legally pass the land border Th-Burma in some places-notable Mae Sai in the far north and to the west of Kanchanaburi=Sangklaburi (aka as 3 Pagoda pass), and I think also via Mae Sot. BUT from some of these points the farang canNOT travel overland to Yangon (capital) all the way-but the chance he comes from there seems remote to me. But chances are far higher he is undocumented, (just ask to see all his papers) or may even come from the a bit unruly part of North-Thailand where thousands of legel and illegal Burmese live-and wander still a bit freely across borders that only others have invented. That Thaton is just some 20-30 kms away from that border. Does he speak Thai? if yes-he is likely a Karen=Shan, these languages are much interchangeable. Oh-maybe you have visitd the Thai rural backward countryside of Isan-expect Burma-countryside to be MUCH more primitive and 3d world-ish. PLUS that many areas are still forbidden for farang to enter by the Tatmadaw=Burmese military police. So I repeat sentence 1: first get much more info-I hope you now know a little more about what to go after.

Ryan-a is right: the choice of available+experienced Khmer boys is far better in TH as it is in their homecountry. Action? What action?-limited to maybe 2-3 bars, busy only weekends, spread out in those 2 cities. Do your choice between: a gay-aimed HTL (see tga for listing) or a general one-make your choice in budget/standards. IMHO best to get a thorough onhand review from as recent as last year on that other forum from the well-travelled OZzie a747 (or so, an ex-airsteward). The only saving grace for KH is their much lower expected fees- 20//30-40US$ (ANY big amount there is paid in US$ cash) for short//long time. There are a very few massageshops where it is assumed you will also need ''extra service''roughly same format as in TH. Again: the well-known sites are best for hook-ups, but also realise that any boy with a fancy Ifone etc must have a foreign sugar+cream-provider- the average Khmer does it with that trusted old Nokia.

Hi Ryan, sawasdee, many thanks_ I just found the time to read the whole story now and this is truely a gem in this forum. Perhaps-dont rush, dont hurry, you could muse about these: 1.what did you found the main difference between Thai MBs and the way you performed/did it? 2.maybe you've read any books/artícles about hustling boys (mostly from the US)- is it really that common over there (As you may guess I am Europe)? BTW-I have also read an interssting long set of articles about some ''under cover'' paticipating scientist about how such boy-brothels as BlueBoy worked+ alternatives available to the boys. Indeed the main gripe from the boys was the big chunk the boss took from the payments- on street fees were mostly/roughly half of those-thus simply foregoing those.

Now that you mention: there is/or used to be-some ''a little faster'' lanes (no extra payment) for people with babies, old seniors (forgot from what age), buddist monks etc- just ask those trainees advising all the dumbo;'s about how to fill mout their white cards for immigr Plan B: get yourself a good status at a trusted airline with these freebees. (I currently have with EY, but it only works for leaving BKK, they give you a voucher for it on check-in)