farangyai

I love the place. I am seldom disappointed. Thanks for the update.

I note that Spain has over 72000 users on Gayromeo with nearly 20000 in Barcelona. For those of you who tout Gayromeo, how could you not have any responses? I don't know what your profile looks like or says so it is difficult to say why no responses. Is it the age factor which generally is not a big consideration in Thailand? Is it your location on your profile that may make others think you are not actually in Barcelona? Is there something in your profile or message that offends those in Spain? Is it a language barrier? Is there an economic difference by area? Is there a stronger mix of non-locals looking to hook up with locals? I guess there are many possible reasons why your experience is likely not the same as Thailand. I know I would not get the same response in my home country that I get in Thailand either, so the same can also be true in many countries. It is also a good idea to enjoy the culture. Let us know if you discover any magic answers. Thanks for the posts.

The time appear correct but my experience has been that the boys may arrive at different times. Some are there at opening and some arrive later.

Thanks Moses for the detailed information. I always try to be reasonably generous. I know a few hundred baht means a lot to the young Thai worker.

Welcome. You have asked many good questions. You will receive different opinions/answers. Happy endings? Depends on both you and the masseur and where you go. You can get a real massage only or you can go where more services are expected. It is always useful to state your expectations. Reservations? I recommend just going and see (up close) what types of guys are being offered. Personally, I don't like picking guys out of a book. Although I will look at a book to see if there is someone I may want to come back for. Taking masseurs back to hotel? Depends on the place, location of your hotel, the time of day, and the masseur. Expect to pay more. I have done the outcall route after personally selecting the guy and enjoy it more as I find it more physically comfortable. Mingle with the dancers? Depends what you mean. Do they want you up on stage?- No. Do they want you to talk to the boy AND BUY DRINKS- YES!! Some will also let you just tip the boy for his time, especially if you also tip the mammasan. WIth a direct tip, the boy gets more money than his 50 baht or whatever from the drink cost. Can you take one to your hotel? Yes, that is the whole purpose of the setup in most places. You come in,( preferably clean and presentable), SMILE, look the guys over, buy drinks, tell the mammasan what you like, act like you have done it before, invite one down that you like (either by eye contact and SMILE or mammasan- don't motion with your hands palms up or beckon), make sure the guy is what you want and will do what you want, pay the off fee as part of the total bar bill, tip decently, and take the guy back to your place, shower, (safeguard your valuables), offer him something to eat or drink, and tip him when done. Be courteous with everyone involved and enjoy. Don't get angry and if something happens that you do not like or don't want to do, just smile and tell them so. Amount? Depends on time spent and whether BKK or PTY(less). Everyone has a different opinion. I would say for BKK short time from a bar 1-2 hours - 1500 baht would be an average or maybe slightly above (not including 400-600 off fee or whatever it is now). Pattaya might be more like 1000-1200 as average. OK to pay a bit more for extra good service. It is a wise investment if you really like the guy as he will be more likely to come again with you. If you are happy and enjoy it, make sure to tell them so. A compliment is also appreciated. What you pay and how you act will also get around the bar quickly. Confused? Don't worry to much about it. It is not difficult. Just go with the flow, relax, have fun, smile, laugh, and enjoy. I suggest that for your first visit you not order takeout or outcall services. Going to the bars and interacting with the staff and guys is a BIG part of what can be fun and this method is more likely to make sure you are satisfied. It is much more interesting IMO. It also gives you the ability to develop relationships and be personable so they know you a bit, know what you like, and to know how generous you are. In my opinion, making them more comfortable with you and you with them, will lead to a better experience for all. It also gives you the ability to get phone numbers of those you really like. Talking with the mammasans is also a good idea, although some may be pushy or seem like a pain in the ass. My suggestion is to tell them what you want and what type you are looking for. Let them do their job. It will make them happy AND they may actually be able to help you. Tip them a small amount if they help you, 100-200 baht. There might be a day when you want a particular boy but don't want to go in the bar and you may be able to have the mammasan arrange things. Overall, treat others as you would want to be treated if you were in their shoes. Most importantly, tell us all the details of your trip and your reaction and experiences. We can all learn something.

Michael- Thank you for sharing this.

Did you last through #39? Normally the massage with no teeth and singing or humming costs extra and should be tipped the same as a happy ending! It certainly sounds worthy of being filmed.

I should probably mention that one of the reasons I tip a bit more than others is that I am a giant. So for example doing a foot massage on me takes them a lot longer. The guys always joke about it and want to try on my shoes which they can do even when keeping their shoes on. Seriously. I can't even buy shoes or sandals in Thailand unless I have them handmade. Similarly, for a guy to hit on the bodyparts and do a decent massage is not an easy job. The main guy I use for full body massage is sweating and tired out by the time he is done working on me for two hours. My arms are the size of their legs or bigger. I do a lot of walking so my legs are solid. I have had all the massage folks laughing at Wat Po when the woman tried to lift up my leg to put it on her to massage. When a guy finishes my foot massage that they charged me 200 baht for, another 200 baht tip for a job well done seems like a bargain. My foot massage always goes over an hour. It only seems fair that I pay a bit more. I do not tip for the sake of tipping. I tip because I know they earned it when they massage me!

I freqently enjoy a real massage while in Thailand. Most of the time I do it without any sexual overtones. I especially like a one-hour foot massage after a long day of walking. I like a particular place on Silom where they have low lighting, you sit in a chair, they wash your feet first and then give a nice long slow foot massage and sometimes if time allows give a brief shoulder, neck, scalp massage also. I find these totally relaxing and a chance for relaxed conversation. I normally tip at least the same as the cost of the massage. For a body massage, I prefer a long two hour massage so that by the time it is done, I feel like a bowl of jello. If possible I like to have these in my own room, otherwise the comfortable/bed or table is preferred to a thin floor mat. Again, I normally tip at least the same as the cost of the massage and more if the guy does an outstanding job. I have certain guys I use and have always been satisfied with. I prefer cream to oil. I prefer strong Thai massage techniques to rubbing. If I have a mild pain from the strength of the massage that is good. I like it when they use the arms and elbows even if it makes be grunt a bit while it is being done. GIve me a strong Issan rice farmer doing this and it is bliss. I also have been known to stop by Wat Po and let the students do their thing on me, whether male or female. Yes, maybe a bit touristy, so I enjoy the small places more. One of the better massages I have ever had in Thailand was by a blind masseur. They just about had to carry me out I was so relaxed. I also like to participate in the whole routine including the herbal tea and small talk. But that is my personal taste and I prefer to keep real massages separate from the fun ones.

I like similar as you and I am not Asian but I am Westerner. I don't care if their skin is dark or light. I also agree with you that Jupiter has an excellent dance group and that they don't show their dicks like some of the Soi Twilight bars do. Sorry if I was not clear. So we like similar type guys. I like guys similar to the ones WowPow used to post pictures of on various forums.

Whenever in BKK, I always check out Jupiter but have never really clicked there with the presentation. I don't need to have a dick waved in my face, but I found it too impassive for my taste. It is probably the only bar I have never offed anyone from. But I do think they do decent dance routines. Since I am not Asian, both your posts explain why things probably never clicked there for me. What do you regard as an Asian gay man's taste? I would be interested in learning more so I better understand.

Could he then be named Bordeaux?

Would he then be named Bordeaux?

MaxChang- Welcome. If you have lived in Thailand two years you should be giving us advice. Ladygaygay- if you know your way around, then fine. I noted upfront the points were directed at newcomers. As far as the derivation of my name............. I prefer to keep you in suspense.

Welcome to all new members (real ones). These forums are valuable reading for newcomers as well as oldtimers. There is always something new to learn. What brief pieces of advice to give you assuming you might be a first time visitor to Thailand?: 1. Learn a bit about the cultural norms if possible (ie don't show anger, be sensitive to someone losing face. 2. Stay in a comfortable place and in a place where you can feel comfortable with your "activities" ( I think Tarntawan Place is a good place to stay for first timers. That was where I first stayed. ) 3. Communicate exactly what you want clearly to the staff and the boy 4. Do some fun things with the boys (in places other than the bedroom) 5. The bars are a good starting point until you become a bit more street saavy, then the apps and Gayromeo. I have always preferred the bars because they work best for me. 6. Try learning some of the language- the boys will love you for it 7. Don't fall in love your first trip and become another ATM for the boy. I did this. I am sure the other forum members have many better ones.

I have always accepted that it is perfectly acceptable for different posters to pay different rates. Some pay too much and either want to, don't care, or don't know better from inexperience, some aim to pay a fair rate, and some try to pay the least amount possible. Different posters may ask for different services, different lengths of time, or have different chemistry with the boy. There are many acceptable reasons. My experience is that if the boy passes muster before I off him and when we are back in my room, I respect the boy, am reasonable and not an asshole personality, the payment is accepted whatever it is as long as it is in the fair range. I seldom agree to a price upfront and I have never had a problem. Sure sometimes the boy asks for a bit more and I may use joking as a way to address that or perhaps give a token amount more for taxi or food but I seldom encounter this. I think many visitors underestimate the importance of respect, kindness, fun, and friendliness from the Thai boy's perspective. Yes, they need they money but it is not everything. The boys note everything we do in forming their opinion of what kind of person we are. Do we tip others? Do we smile? Do we give coins to beggars on the street? Do we offer to buy the boys food without being asked? I typically ask them if they want something from 7-11 or foodstall before we go back to the room. They also tell all the other boys what type of person we are when they return to the bar! So my belief is that you create your own karma according to how you treat the boys and it either "works for you" or "works against you". I think it is useful to think beyond just the dimension of how much to pay.

I also stopped using Mr. Toom. I always found him responsive but after a few problems with the cars, I did not feel his service was reliable enough.

Thanks. Great article and exactly what I was looking for.

I suspect there are quite a few of us in similar situations as you describe(caring for aging relatives, downsizing our own home, possibly relocating, and planning for our own imminent retirement). I feel free when I am in Thailand and part of me wants to spend more time there and part of me wonders how I would handle the frustrations I think I would have with the "Thai way". I find myself getting antsy for my own culture after about two months. Another thought is thinking further down the road when I won't be able to (or want to) travel as easily. I started a topic under THE BEER BAR to see if other members have comments.

I was looking for anyone with personal knowledge. I hate all the ads on ThaiVisa so I did not find anything particularly interesting there. But I did read through some google searches and found a few interesting reads. Beyone retirement type consideration, they also fit with when extended care from an accident or surgery is necessary. http://www.retire2thailand.com/retire2-assisted-living.php http://www.thailandretirementhelpers.com/alzheimers-assisted-living-in-thailand/ http://www.nursinghomethailand.com/web/aboutus.php

I am sure some on the board have thought about this topic as well and I would be interested in any observations. Although I would love to retire to Thailand to have fun, I worry perhaps too much about what will happen if I stay there as I age. Yes, I know the Thai are very caring people for the most part and many things are cheaper in Thailand. But what facilities are there for me to have proper help and care? I keep asking myself whether I want to stay in my home country or whether I would feel safe aging in Thailand? Has anyone visited or looked into assisted living facilities in Thailand? Hey I don't plan on needing it for a long time, but one never knows. I see quite a few ads on the internet and have read a bit about expats going to Thailand for that purpose. But I would be interested in any real experiences rather than slick ads.

I think all of the common sense points in the article could have been made without resorting to targetting the mystery expats. It left me with a view of the writer as a bit uncouth and having some of the same cynical flavor as those expats he accuses, targets or describes. I don't know the reasoning behind the writer's approach. Was it to try to distinguish between the mystery expats and the new fabs for his desired Thai readers? Was it to blow off steam after being targetted by the mystery expats? Was it a clumsy attempt to contrast between old and new for literary excitement and journalistic sensationalism to get someone to read the articles? Whatever the reason, I think all would have been better served for the author to have taken the high road and not stooped to the level of throwing mud at others and then doing it again in this forum. Contrary to what the writer thinks, there are many forum readers that have a much more balanced view of Thailand, it's people and it's customs than they let on. They have pictures to post, stories to tell, advice to give, experiences to share that provide enjoyable reading. The nattering nabobs of negativism just talk louder or use bigger font. So my suggestion to the magazine writer/editor is to be above the fray, not part of it.

Thanks for the great suggestion. I know I am not as sensitive to the "saving face" aspect as I should be in Thailand. It just does not come natural to me. . I will try "mai dai krup" if the need should arise. Thanks for taking the time to make such a great specific suggestion

"I bought him a drink and he asked to be offed. I told him I am not ready since the night is young and I want to go to other places - told him just maybe later." I stopped using the word "maybe" in Thailand to avoid misunderstanding. I either say "yes" or "no". I found the Thai guys disliked the word IMO and would rather be told definitively. Then if the potential for another off comes along, they know where things stand. They can sometimes be stubborn about what they may regard as a promise. So trying to understand their point of view, I tell them directly. It seems to work better.

Similar to Paulsf, I never talk about time or money generally. I also prefer to sleep alone, but on occasion if I know the boy well and he asks to stay over, I normally accomodate. Sometimes if a former gogo boy visits from out of town and I have know him a long time, he normally stays with me. I really value some of those contacts and have a better time then because I am more relaxed as is he. I know him-he knows me. I can count on one hand the number of offs who have discussed money. By the way, I really enjoyed all the trip reports. It makes me homesick for Thailand!