Bob

The figures you quote floor me (i.e., I don't believe what your bf is saying for a nanosecond). Other than buying some robes and paying for the family party which usually precedes the temple ordination, what exactly are the additional costs? I'd certainly ask and expect a detailed answer. Somewhere here in Chiangmai province there is some program where westerners become a "monk for a month" at a temple and I've seen the cost of that stay (which I believe involve sleeping quarters a bit more comfy than what regular novices receive) quoted at $700.00 (about 24,500 baht). I simply can't believe a Thai is charged that much (in fact, other than buying the robes and the cost of any family party, I can't believe there is any cost other than some very minimal money for personal expenses).

"Prague is a shadow as is Amsterdam and Barcelona. But, Thailand is still a great place to find guys in person at bars and venues. I hope we don't ruin that for ourselves and others by being so negative all the time." [sorry, had to quote Michael this way as I've never been able to get the damn quote feature to work in Windows 10] We're a bit off topic (which maybe in this thread is a good thing?) but happen to agree that the gay scene all over the world is less than what it used to be.....and likely (due to various reasons - internet hookups, less prejudice against gays with no need to go to separate "gay" places, and probably a myriad of other reasons) will continue into the future. Somewhat, perhaps, like the use/need of gay message boards? But I hardly think any of that real phenomena has any significant relationship at all to a very small minority of comments made on this or any other gay message board. [Without thinking of the consequences, I'm sorry I quoted Firecat who's certainly been a big asset to this board; but, by doing so, I allowed somebody....ok, weewillie.....to spew a few over-the-top and, in my view, unfounded charges. Look, folks, please attempt to make your points without personally attacking somebody else on the board. I, for one, don't give a flying fuck if you do or don't like another poster or his posts.]

If somebody bothers you to the extent that you feel the need to call them an idiot, why not use the ignore feature for that poster? You don't help your cogent argument that some of the negative comments ought to be omitted by doing the opposite.

While I don't read most of the threads here (or even all the posts in a given thread), I'm a bit puzzled as to what this weird expression of encouraged silence (keep your opinions to yourself!) is all about. It smells rather familiar to the latest (as in yesterday) pronouncement of the General about the disallowance of any criticism at all. [i'll now partially guess what started this business]. If one wants to have a photo thread with photos only and no comment at all, then ask the moderator if that's okay (and, moderator, if that's allowed, then please enforce the rule). If it's not allowed, then people ought to be encouraged to disagree without being rude. But I do have to admit that the notion of asking posters to not say what type they like or what type they don't like strikes me (an admittedly wacko gay man) as something that short circuits my puny pea brain. If you really feel offended by the fact that somebody else doesn't like the type you like or, perhaps, you even feel pressured in the slightest by such criticisms to alter your own personal chemistry, the only suggestion I have is that it's time for you to grow a pair.

Prakanong, interesting statement about Thai copyright law (which I plead almost total ignorance); however, perhaps you might want provide your apparent learned legal opinion to the following: (1) Does Thai copyright law apply to a website which is owned by a non-Thai and which is hosted outside of Thailand? (2) And, providing you could possibly answer "yes" to both aspects of #1 above, does that same non-Thai somehow have copyright ownership or protection to what other non-Thais write on an internet forum he is hosting?

What can one say when a poster makes comments like "You fucking asked a question.." and then, 6 hours later, claims he was trying to have a "very peaceful and calm discussion..." What the hell, at least it provided my chuckle of the morning. Restoration of some of Allen's work has brought back mostly happy memories for me.....so thanks for that. And Allen, wherever you are, put your broom down and take it easy as you have no obligation to use your moderation broom to sweep this thread clean!

Allen himself and his website were helpful to many, myself included. I didn't know Allen well but always found him to be the perfect gentleman. Unless Allen somehow copyrighted what was published online, I don't see any problem with anybody using it for any purpose, especially given the attribution has been given.

Everybody is different but spending 12+ hours on a train (or any transportation vehicle) is not my idea of fun. As concerns the myriad of airlines flying from BKK to CNX, I've used most of them and don't have any safety concerns there. Two years ago, they suspended train service to Chiangmai for a few months due to multiple derailments caused by bad track sections. After claiming they replaced all the bad tracks, they had a big hoopla inauguration trip loaded with Bangkok and Chiangmai dignitaries and, you guessed it, the train derailed on the way to Lampang (they bussed them back). The train trip is probably relatively safe now (plus they don't go fast enough to cause a huge problem) but I'd guess that flying is a whole lot safer. Given you mentioned you've only scheduled a "weekend" up here, I'd highly recommend you don't waste more than a day's time doing the train thing. And, since you've mentioned doing the overnight deal, the "sight-seeing opportunity" mentioned above just isn't going to happen. Fly....and spend your limited time checking out our fair city.

Have read both of Burdett's books (the other one is Bangkok Tattoo, I believe) and read a couple of Barrett's detective novels which were based in Bangkok; however, didn't know about the latest Barrett book and I may check that out. As an aside, I sat next to Barrett many years ago on a flight from Taipei to Bangkok and talked with him about his books. Somewhat strange guy, I thought, but, as you said, some of his descriptions of the Thai scene seemed rather accurate to me.

Now, who exactly are the "you people" you're referring to? Before you jumped in and resurrected a 7-month old thread (which by doing so you republished whatever offended you), there were a total of 7 posts and no reasonable person in my view could view 6 of those posts as nasty, heartless, or unreasonable.

Spent a couple of days in Rangoon (Yangon) about a month ago with my Thai partner, almost exclusively visiting the major tourist sights. As Fedssocr mentions, the Schedegon Pagoda is truly stupendous and worth seeing both during the day and night. If I can figure out how to do it, I'll attach a day and night photo of the main stupa there. Given I was with my partner, we didn't go looking for any gay haunts. I can say we never encountered anything other than friendly people both inside and out of the hotel. Prices there are about the same as Chiangmai with the exception of the hotels - which seemed rather high to me (we stayed in a nice....maybe 3-star?...place and paid after hefty taxes $172.50 per night). Traffic was pretty horrible most of the time....one spends a lot of time simply sitting in place. My biggest surprise there, though, was I didn't see a single motorsy (I thought all Asian cities had millions of them).

Nobody ought to be taking any testosterone product without a doctor's okay (and a doctor who has a clue about your family history and the effects of the drug). For example only, use of the drug would be contraindicated if there is any history of prostate cancer in your family. In spite of the comments of my buddy Khortose (a/k/a "Grumpy"), I'm rather doubtful testosterone is a mood enhancer for most people. Maybe it would increase aggressiveness (hmmm.....Grumpy, is that where you get your driving tactics?) but not much else...haha.

New location is on the south side of Soi 6, Charoen Phratet, about 40-50 feet west of Charoen Phratet road and immediately next door to the new RAM bar on the corner. As to be opening "late", all the bars are closed at midnight around here (although there seems to be some lingering to finish already-ordered drinks up to about 1AM).

After z909 correctly points out that the tone in part has been heading south, along comes the usual suspect and immediately ups the ante. At least he's consistent.

There are some athletes that become universally liked by the fans and Yogi was one of them. I'm not so sure that the goofy things he said had much to do with that as just his general positive attitude. He was somewhat like a grinning and mischievous imp everybody liked. Forever the wordsmith (even he had no clue what he was about to say): "Nobody comes here anymore, it's too crowded." "The future ain't what it used to be." "Cut my pie into four pieces, I don't think I could eat eight." "I never said most of the things I said."

No issues for me either (and my up-to-date Norton didn't sing out any alarms).....methinks the problem is at your end, Captain.

Not at all in the northern half of Thailand. Here in Chiangmai the "rainy" season hasn't been hardly rainy at all and the dams all over northern Thailand remain at dangerously low levels. The government just this past week passed some rules banning all the farmers from planting a second crop (typically started in December/January) as there simply isn't enough water to provide to them for that purpose. Given the lousy Thai economy at the moment and the continued bad news in exports (let alone the idiotic political situation), lowering the amount of available rice exports sure as hell won't help.

After vacationing 1-3 times annually in Thailand for a decade or so, I retired early (age 60), spent 2 months in Chiangmai the first year, 4 months the next year, and 8+ months there for the past 4-5 years. I still maintain a home in the US and currently spend summers there (which adds substantially to my retirement costs, of course). As concerns the "appropriate minimum", I didn't vote because there simply are too many variables in the question, a few of which would be: (1) Location. Living in Chiangmai is cheaper than living in Bangkok and, of course, living in the boonies would be a whole lot cheaper than any major city. (2) Living style and Expenses. I personally couldn't handle living in a studio or small place but others do so without any problem. If you wanted a moderately nice 2 bedroom condo/apartment in Chiangmai, you'll likely spend at least 12-15k per month. For a really nice place, you can add another 7-15k baht to that figure. Then there's the cost of cable tv, internet, electricity, water, telephone, laundry, groceries, dining out, visits occasionally to the bar, transport (relatively cheap - I don't own a car or motorsy), newspapers, snacks, etc., etc. And, of course, medical insurance or costs (I happen to buy a high-deductible - $2,500.00 - travel policy for my 8+ month stays and that happens to currently cost just under $1,000.00, although that figure will surely get a lot bigger as I get older). (3) Partner? I have no clue about the cost of offing anyone these days as I've had a Thai partner for a long time (almost 15 years); on the other hand, I'm guessing that renting (offing) might be cheaper in the long term! hehe I don't live a high-style life in CM but I think I average about 80-90k per month outflow there. As far as deciding to retire, I decided that when I felt I could do it in a financially comfortable manner. And I probably actually deplete my retirement savings less than the 4% figure annually that you cite (that, however, depending on the ugly stock market of late, could change). So far, so good. No complaints.

As noted, a lot of people really like PJ's Place. Peter and Jiap are amazing hosts. Location-wise, it's near the old mall (Kad Suan Gaew) and a reasonably short walk to the new Maya Mall and the Nimmanhaemin area. For transport to other areas of the city, it's rather easy to grab a baht bus on Huay Gaew or a tuk tuk near the mall (and/or Peter/Jiap can call for a tuk tuk or taxi for you). Regarding the Lotus, the positives would be that Mohammed and the staff are good people and it is located right across the street from Adams Apple. Negatively, though, the rooms are a bit small and tired and it's not easy to get transportation anywhere near there later in the evening (absent the staff at the hotel or Adams telephoning for a tuk tuk for you). After about 10PM, it's near impossible to find a tuk tuk or baht bus even if you walk out to Chang Phuak Road.

"Well....Woud You?" Wood I what?

Wise move, Scooby. Thanks.

Thanks, Nikom.....I've copied down all your valuable information for use later in the year. But, yes, I'll probably fly between Mandalay and Bagan and 7-8 hours in a car is not my favorite thing to do (after about 3 hours I have the urge to kill somebody).

I'm planning on heading over there this coming fall given we now have reasonably priced and direct flights to both Mandalay and Yangon from Chiangmai. I'm not sure from your post if you actually were over there or used this guy's services but, if so, can you advise what the travel time by car is between Mandalay and Bagan? I'm just curious as I thought the distance between them was long enough to consider flying instead of going by vehicle. [i'm not aware of any rule here that prevents anyone from posting contact info such as this but, if for some reason you don't want to post it here, I'd appreciate it by PM. Thanks.]

Shamahan says: "You are talking about cheap rent and I cannot vouch for Chiang Mai. But in Pattaya the place like yours (depending on location) could easily cost you 3k US per month or more." Folks, $3,000.00 (US) is currently 96,000+ baht a month. Rather than saying what I am thinking, I'll simply ask the question: Anyone know anybody in Pattaya that's paying even half that amount a month for a two-bedroom, two-bath, ocean-side condo?

Over the very long haul, it'd certainly make sense to purchase rather than to rent; however, there are some caveats there that seem to apply especially here in Thailand: (1) First and foremost is the issue of your neighbors' activities and resulting noise. The zoning rules here - such things as attempting to separate residential from business activities let alone the notion of set-back rules which actually require somebody to not build to (or over) their property line - are pretty much non-existent. I lived for a while in a rather upscale condo on the west side here in Chiangmai only to discover that a bar built in a tin shed (my description) about 200 yards away caused unbelievable noise - causing even our windows and sliders to rattle until 2 in the morning. It was really bad and the main reason I moved. If you ever do choose to buy or rent just about anywhere here, do make sure you go to the proposed location a couple of evenings just to make sure you're not going to encounter a surprise noise nightmare. You'll want to kill somebody if your neighbor opens up a karaoke joint! And even though I did in fact do that (check the evening noises) when I moved to this townhouse several years back, I wasn't anticipating two 8-story condo buildings being built within 120 yards of here or the construction of the 4-story townhouse block no more than 4 meters immediately behind me. Thankfully, those are almost 100% finished and have actually improved the neighborhood....but the 2-years of noise was rather bad. Then again, the shoddy construction (single-pane windows, no insulation, etc.) simply invites noise to invade your residences here. And, for me, I have to consider maiming a Thai neighbor who lives three townhouses down who last week decided to acquire a motorsy which sounds like a B-52 with bad ball bearings. Oh well, I'll survive (he may not). (2) One question which is relevant for some (those who are adept/lucky enough to do well on the stock market or via other investments) is whether, given how cheap the rents are, you can do better with your money elsewhere. I have but maybe I've been lucky. (3) And just how "long-term" does it have to be to justify buying in the long term. For many expat falang, they don't come over here until they retire (often 65 years or older) and the question is just how long do they plan on living in that location (or even living at all) for it make sense to purchase something? 10 years, 15 years, 20 years? And I've known more than a few foreigners who moved here with the intention of making their permanent home here and then, due to medical issues or simply disenchantment, moved elsewhere (most often back to their home countries) within 4-6 years. Friends that I know who've done that didn't make any money whatsoever on the places they purchased (in fact, after taking a long while to sell their places and paying all the interim and closing fees, they lost a chunk of change). So it's a crap shoot, I suppose. Just like if/when property prices take a tumble here.