KhorTose

Yes, it is taken from the NRA's playbook, and I said on three different occasions that I think it is perfectly legal to regulate guns. You must keep skipping over that part. However, without some king of guarantee, I am with the NRA. You want to shut them out, make an amendment or law that says "no guns can ever be taken away from responsible citizens with no criminal record or mental condition, and any and all registry of guns will be destroyed should the US ever be invaded or the elected government removed by coup. This is just a very brief part of what would have to be a comprehensive law that would set out guidelines for what types of guns could be regulated, and what types of ammo---without setting any amounts on how many guns or ammo you can have. This law cannot be overturned without a 66% vote of the nation, or two thirds of the states by popular voting. Then I would gladly vote for a ban on assault rifles, talon ammo, and automatic weapons to name three. Why no ban on quantity of guns and ammo? Well take me, for instance. When I left i had a total of 13 weapon, mostly pistols, but long guns and shotguns, and over 6000 rounds of ammo. I used each and every weapon I had, and bought quantity of ammo because it is cheaper that way. An average trip to the target range with the four or five guns I choose to shoot that day will go through about 500 rounds of ammo. I have many friends that have only one to three guns and several friends who have more then 20. They are all responsible citizens that do no harm. It's funny that owning and shooting these guns have not made them killers. Call it a cliche all you want, but guns are not, nor never will be the reason people kill. If someone grabs a gun in a fit or anger and kills their wife, etc. well without the gun they would grab the andiron or vase and smash their skull in--and you know it happens. Sorry, you will never ever get me to believe an inanimate object is the root of evil.

A permit to carry a concealed weapon can include a big knife is some states, and yes it is a permit which means in almost all cases you have undergone an FBI background check, local PD check and paid between $60 to $180 dollars to obtain said permit. I do think there is one state where you do not need a permit, but will have to look it up. In the meantime, in California, Wisconsin and some other states you cannot get a concealed permit, but you can carry a loaded gun strapped to your hip, along with your knife of over three inches. That doesn't maake a lot of sense to me. Please let me repeat, I never said you could not regulate guns, and I emphasize that I would even be for it, if there was some kind of iron clad guarentee that it will not lead to confiscation like England and Australia. So far all the left has ever done is try to regulate guns without giving this guarentee. The US are in a no compromise position, and the ability to achieve compromise seems to be gone from American thinking by both the right and the left, by the religious and the non regilious, and by the moralist who knows what is best for us from both sides of the fence.

Christian announced he is taking a break from posting on another web site. It might help if you could give us the dimensions and they are not shown in the picture. My guess is some king of bulkhead fitting for going thought a solid wall with pipe, pvc, or conduit.

Very well said, and I could not agree more with the above. The question is, why don't you apply these same rules to how YOU treat other farangs?

The argument is still the same. When someone kills with a car, a knife, poison, a club, etc. it is always the person that is at fault. Kill with a gun and then it is the gun to blame. Will never make sense to me, especially when far more die by car then gun. Fountainhall, I won't look it up, but I am willing to bet we have more then 5 times your roadways and and more then five times your cars

Just another one of the .02%. In the meantime: UK motorways have turned into demolition derby sites as another car crash involving 11 vehicles occurred on one of the country’s busiest roads. It follows Friday’s massive pile-up that claimed seven lives and left 51 injured. ­UK motorways have turned into demolition derby sites as another car crash involving 11 vehicles occurred on one of the country’s busiest roads. It follows Friday’s massive pile-up that claimed seven lives and left 51 injured. Six people were injured in Sunday’s accident in the county of Lancashire; fortunately, there have been no fatalities. None of the injured are in a life-threatening condition, police say. The cause of the crash is still unknown. The accident forced authorities temporally to close north and southbound section of the motorway for the clean-up operation. Friday’s pile-up on M5 motorway that occurred in southern England’s county of Somerset involved 34 vehicles. Seven drivers and passengers died as crashed vehicles caught fire in the accident. The casualty list could still increase, as many of those injured are still in critical condition. Should this happen the crash will be the worst in British history. The vehicles have been removed overnight, but the motorway remains closed, police said. The accident renewed debate about motorway safety. Just weeks before, the government announced plans to raise the speed limit to 80mph, according to The Guardian. Yes, by all means the UK definitely sounds like it needs to deregulate the motorways by raising the speed limit to 80MPH (125kph). In the meantime, we will keep your locking blade knives.

More like two scatolgist throwing.......at each other.

Good news, Romney shows how out of touch he is with America in his choice of Paul Ryan as his running mate. Paul (okay he does get an "A" from the NRA) is another big supporter of taxing the poor while reducing taxes on the rich. He has twice came up with plans that lower the tax on the rich, gut medicare and social security, and advocates for a federal value added tax of 8.5%, all of which would put the majority of the tax burden on poorer Americans. Oddly enough one plan even failed to make it out of committee, and the other was voted down with 38 republicans joining to defeat it. He is young and smart, but a total right wing tickle down republican. Obama has been attacking Romney as only being for the rich, not paying any taxes, farming jobs overseas, etc. and doing so with good effect on the American public. So instead of picking a more liberal candidate he is picking his clone. I will bet right now that this choice will hurt him, and further predict that he will even lose Ryan's state of Wisconsin come November.

Come on Bob, "pressured CNN to delete it", and your evidence. As YOU know the 1939 Supreme court decision was about short barrel shotguns and even though they upheld the government ban based on tax and commerce cause they also affirmed that the 2nd Amendment meant all civilians could be armed with the guns in use of the day. The last is not a fact but Justice Burger's opinion. Justice Birger is the same man that concurred in Bowers vs Hardrwick that said homosexual sex could be outlawed by a state. Fortunately overturned by a latter court. His language then: "infamous crime against nature", worse than rape, and "a crime not fit to be named." Burger concluded: "To hold that the act of homosexual sodomy is somehow protected as a fundamental right would be to cast aside millennia of moral teaching."

Haygay, what are you going to do when gaybutton discovers your new identity on his board?

Send it to me on email Bob, it is gone from CNN.

Oddly enough, when we looked at police bust in restrooms and sex shop video halls, we discovered an amazing fact. ALmost all (70+%) of the arrest were men who had wives so they are not truly gay, but bisexual. I am sure before the 80's that this would have been different, but in a liberal town like Seattle it is only the Bis who still do this.

Yes the Tacoma, Washington gun shop owner of Bulleye shooters illegally sold a gun to a minor under the control of a mad man. The owner was sued for all he was worth and had to sell the shop. Recently, this year, another man legally bought a gun from the new owner and killed five people. Rogie is you want a view of the gun toting pickup crowd see "Easy Rider". It is a great movie and Jack Nicholson's break out movie. Now to get back to our original argument. You posted an article from the Washington Post that did describe how Americans seem worn down by the arguments and so do nothing. The reason that nothing does get done if the argument is between a group of people who want to direct the lives of others and people who believe strongly in Freedom. Regardless what you think about guns, the facts are on the side on the gun owners so the argument always comes down to one side espousing their fears and the other side showing by statistics and real, non NRA commissioned studies.that those fears are unfounded. If the argument was kept to facts and if the sides were not "no guns" and "all guns" then their would be some kind of compromise. I do not know about the rest of the world, nor care, but guns will never disappear in America until science can prove they are more dangerous to life and limb then not having guns. So far all the studies--even in England--seem to prove the opposite. No change or guns are actually beneficial. I am truly sorry you are scared of people with guns. Hell, I am scared to death of people with Bibles. as in the long run they probably kill more people then either cars or guns.

There is never that analogy when you argue with emotions instead of facts. As I say this is an article of Faith with you and not any trully sound reasoning. I have some facts for you. You can look up the citations as I think the work in doing so may stimulate you reasoning powers. According the to National safety Council the following chances of dying are true: 1st = Auto Accidents 1 in 228 2nd= Reaction to Medication 1 in 541 3rd= Hanging/Suffocating Yourself 1 in 576 4th= Drowning 1 in 1081 5th= Choking on non food objects 1 in 1267 6th= House Fire 1 in 1471 7th= Falling From Furniture 1 in 4745 8th= ATV Accident 1 in 4800 9th= ACCIDENTAL GUNSHOT 1 in 4888 I sort of believe your fears about getting shot when you open you door compared to being in a moving vehicle are both unfounded and unreasonable, and once again emotionally based. As top guns only being meant to kill that is a real joke. Conservatively, there are between 65-70 million guns owned in the US. In any one year there are 13.200 Handguns deaths or .02% (2/10th of 1%) of all guns, so 99+% of all guns are used safely and not used for killing but home protection, target shooting, and hunting just as advertised. By the way these figures also included deaths of bad guys by cops and home owners. Guns will never be anywhere as dangerous as cars driven by the drunk, the tired, the drugged and the inattentive so if you want to regulate the lives of others start there. As to cars being essential, many environmentalist would strongly disagree and nearly 1/2 of dwellers in big cities do not own cars. Now trucks are another matter, but we carefully license these drivers and still they kill.

This statement by FH is 100% correct and you can even add no connection to ethnicity too as the the term Moor derived from the area they lived in called Maure by the Romans. These are the people who conquered most of Spain and Portugal when they converted to Islam. In Shakespeare, Orthello is always pictured black since that was written into the play that way, but many Moors were light skinned Berbers and brown skinned arabs as well as blacks from Mali, Algeria, and Niger. The Arabs have never had a problem with skin color. They did have black slaves, but they also had Turkish slaves. Nevertheless, these slaves could raise to high positions. The term for Turkish slave is mamluke or ghilman and the most famous was Saladin who defeated Richard I of England in the holy land. The Mamluks went on to found a dynasty in Egypt that ended under King Farouk. When talking about people you must be careful of generalizations, but one that is nearly always true is there is no racism in the Islamic world..

Given proper parenting he may not have bought a gun or shot the Sikhs. You will spend billions on incarceration and law enforcement and no money on the real solution. day care and early intervention , solving nothing at all but putting us deeper in debt. As to how to stop nuts like this from purchasing guns, and shooting people there is no easy answer but rather long ones. In the short term I can just point out that nuts get into a car and run down crowds of people a least once a year in American and you are not requiring stricter rules for buying a car. I think if there was some guarantee that guns would never be confiscated from normal Americans then you would find the pressure from anti gun control groups to be less. I still say there is nothing in the Constitution to stop regulation of guns, and stricter gun laws, maybe to include banning ownership of those convicted of driving drunk when there has been an accident, as it shows the same wanton disregard of humanity as most bad shooters show. However, gun groups now oppose some rules as, without a guarantee--written in law--,they are rightly afraid that such rules will lead to confiscation as it has in England and Australia. Hell, talk about ridiculous, locking blade knives are not banned in the UK. A great tool I have carried for years to avoid cutting off my fingers. What is next: screwdrivers, ice picks and finally feather pillows so we can all be safe.

That may apply to some Americans, but don't forget there are some of us that find target shooting fun. Just out of curiosity have you ever shot an arrow, played horseshoes, golfed, played pool or billards, tennis, pingpong, or hopscotch. Just asking because all the sports are tests of hand-eye coordination, which is exactly what target shooting is. You must also realize that many Americans love to hunt, a sport I do not join in as I hate killing animals. Nevertheless, I support American hunters as without them there would be little money for conservation in the USA, and some game would become a nuisance and die of starvation from over grazing the land available to them.

The perfect solution to my growing weight problem. I am moving to mars tomorrow., unless they first open a vacation cabin on the moon.

Very interesting thinking Rogie. I can't agree with you about psychology as common sense said gays were sick aberrations and only science (psychology--is a science with strict rules for conclusions) said gays were normal and gays were not mentally ill. I can give you other examples but that one should hit home. However, i do agree with you that America has gone wrong, As to where, that is a hard question and I am not sure it has any one answer. However, if I was to pick a time in American history to blame, I would probably the early 19th century and the things that took place in and around WWI to WWII.

Anything with Southern Comfort in it can lead to overindulgence. Sounds like a great drink.

That is the simple way to dismiss an argument. Who needs facts when you can just make aspersions. They did not sound like they determined the question at all. Once again I see an inability to see the connections in spite of 50 years watching a prohibition against drugs fail, along with a prohibition against alcohol. They are not on;ly both dismal failures, but they have contributed to make the problems worse, not better. Yes, I do believe we need to take a hard look at decriminalization of drugs. It is called harm reduction and it is presently practiced in such places like Holland. Yes, between those who have adopted gun control as a faith and those who have looked at the facts and determined the real problem is not the guns. Of course, education has to be part of the solution. But then there is a huge existing problem which has to be addressed - the illiteracy rate in the USA is a staggering 32 million (U.S. Education Department statistics, January 2009). These people cannot even read the instructions on a bottle of pills! On a per capita basis, Vietnam is far ahead of the USA! In part I do agree, and that is why I and many others are trying to get people to stop wasting time and money on useless campaigns to ban this and that and look at the real problem which is how are children are raised. Education is only a small part of the problem, as America has too many children who have come from dysfunctional homes and backgrounds. Here is where we need to spend money and not waste billions and billions are stupid, useless prohibitions that make the problems worse, not better. Do you know that crime and punishment (jails/law enforcement) are the number two expense of our government right after the defense department. It is time to end dependence on policy choices based upon some old religious thinking that things and people are either good or evil and look hard at the reality on the ground. Faith is what drives all prohibitions, and while faith can be a good thing, when it determines what is best for others not based on reality (facts) then it too is evil. Everything we do should be based on what works and is scientifically sound and not some notion that says because some people misuse drugs, guns, cars, knives, or language then we should ban the use for everyone. So much for civil liberty, and so much for any real attempt to deal with the problem as it exists. Take a course in psychology sometime and then tell me the gun made him do it.

How do you keep totally missing the point. How many people have these drunks killed with their cars. Yes, far more then guns. They are at fault when they drive drunk, but the gun is at fault when they or anybody else kills. That will never make sense. And the person who is texting, who kills while driving is perfectly normal too. Just like the Hattori case it is not common but it happens, sadly. I will answer you next here. How many mass killers to you know who are sane, whether or not they use a gun? I am getting a kick out of Al Jazera as they are blaming the shooting on America's racism towards Muslims and non-Christians. They are closer to the truth then you are blaming guns. Just like drugs, once you ban them you will find one million guns smuggled into the US every year and everyone with a gun will be a criminal including those who just want to protect themselves from the man with a club and a knife. You will give the criminals a whole new industry and only honest people will be without guns and gun crime will not go down----just like England today. Not only in gun ownership but in a number of fields including personal liberty. How many have been in Switzerland, and Canada where they also have guns. I don't think you are reading my post at all. Guns are not the problem, the way our children are raised are the problem. You are really getting selective with the dates as you do not wish to mention the Cumbria shooting where 23 people where shot and 12 died---all since you banned guns. If they are more common in the US then the UK I need to remind you we are a larger country. All the Washington post asked was a ban on what is called assault rifles. Nice try, but that does not work as even under the old law there where many ways to get around that ban. What you are doing with you gun control is the same as people who try to feed the hungry and do not tackle birth control. You are only looking superficially and not willing to tackle the real problem. Gun control, like prohibition, and like war on drugs are all simple misguided quick fixes that do nothing to deal with the real problem. That problem is what is obvious to me is and will always be people and for the first time in history we have solutions to that. If a child is raised properly they are far less likely to be drug addicts or criminals. That is the solution not another dumb prohibition. Two Americans have said it best: “Why don't they pass a constitutional amendment prohibiting anybody from learning anything? If it works as well as prohibition did, in five years Americans would be the smartest race of people on Earth.”Will Rogers quotes “Prohibition goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation and makes crimes out of things that are not crimes.”Abraham Lincoln quotes

Wrong Bob, People do kill and this latest shooting is a prime example of the fallacy of thinking that they do not. It turns out that Page, the man who shot up that temple, had a long history of drunkenness, and had even once ran a car off the road. Now if he had killed a family of four with his car you would be telling me that it was not the car that killed the people, but page being drunk, but when he does it with a gun, then it is the gun. You and Fountainhall are going for the good old quick fix. Lets just ban guns and the violence in our society will just go away. It is just those darn guns causing all this trouble which ignores the fact that other societies have guns without problems and taking guns away does not reduce violent crime. By the way one member of the temple tried to stop him with a butter knife, Sort of a shame that Wisconsin did not have a right to carry law, but that is another thread. You really want to fix the problem? Then you allow federal day care with an eye towards doing early intervention on troubled kids from troubled families. That is the answer, not some stupid law that takes guns away from honest well-balanced people. However, you are going to have to pay for this, but somewhere down the road your jails would start the empty and violence in society would decline. However, instead of advocating and fighting for this you are both choosing a simple solution that has no justification is reality based on measurable facts and statistics and ignores the research that says you are wrong. While you are at it, ban alcohol which is at the root of more dysfunctional families and deaths then all the drugs and guns combined. It is just as simple a solution as what you propose and just as misquided, and unworkable.

A gun is produced for the primary purpose of killing (or at the very least, severely wounding). In many cases, No it is produced for defense, hunting, target shooting, and only becomes bad if misused by one's fellow man. Without Hunters the Unitied States would be overran as the animals, who grazing land is no longer there, and there would be no money to pay for conservation. The fact that a car, a loose air conditioning unit, a badly fitted electrical plug can also kill and maim is a totally separate argument, but only if you totally disregard the human operating the car. A car is meant to be transportation, but when misused by drunks, people texting, talking on the phone, driving without sleep and driving on drugs then it is a far greater killer then guns. No difference, it is not the instruments that are bad it is the people using them. No doubt some will argue that a gun's primary purpose is defence. Sorry, I don't buy that one either, or any thing else that justifiies what you want to believe, as it seems far more importent to you to justify prohibitions that don't work, then accept a different reality. Why are guns not modified to ensure they only maim and can not kill? Probably the same reason why the speed limit on the highway is not five miles an hour, and how would you hunt. And I am bound to ask: why did the shooter in the Hattori case shoot with the intent to kill the young, harmless, unarmed and totally innocent young 16-year old? First off you would have to ask him and while you are at it find out why the drunk with a 2.0 blood alcohol gets behind the wheel of a car. I would love the answer to both questions as they are very similar. Guns kill! People use guns to kill other people! Indisputable fact! Yes they do and often it is to protect themselves and their families or in war to protect their country. Drunk, drugged and distracted drivers also kill far more people then guns! Indisputable fact.

Okay I am sure i could have given another example, but I am confounded why cars or guns do not have humans in control of them, or is it that only bad people operate guns, while vehicles are all driven by ex-saints.