PattayaMale

I feel that if the owner was there, the hosts would have been serving drinks. Actually we sat a long time and would have each bought another drink but felt we did not want to "disturb" the hosts.

This seems to be a terrible season for many businesses. Too few customers. But at least at one host bar the hosts don't seem to be helping themselves. I have visited Ganymede in Jomtien several times. It is a good space but I have never seen it to be very crowded. Last night in an effort to avoid the rain, 3 of us ran into Ganymede. We were very surprised to have a hard time ordering a drink because we were the only 3 customers. After sitting for a short while I went over to a group of hosts that were busy playing cards with each other. I asked "can we get a drink?" but it actually took a few seconds for them to decide who would wait on us! After we were finally served our drinks, the waiter went back to play cards. We sat until the rain stopped (30 minutes??) and then had to go over and ask for our bill. I understand that it might be boring as hell with no customers. But.......

Went today 3 June 2010 at 10:30am. in and out in less than 10 minutes. Only 7 customers!!! Saw Barry Kenyon and asked about rumor re Googie. He said Irish Embassy said No death reported. Where are all the tourists?

I think I know the restaurant you are talking about. If you do go back try the eggplant Parmesan. It is fantastic!

2 things in answering you question comes to mind. First, "topics" have become more like conversations. When you sit and discuss things with friends, one comment leads to another. So a topic on 2 venues closing might lead to reasons why venues close. So I think that is how board topics now evolve into conversations. Secondly, your post was an excellent new topic starter. A new topic, thread or conversation titled "Why can't we stick to topics." Which really has nothing at all to do with "Amor and Wi's Restaurants to close"

I think wi-fi makes good business sense. If you have already decided to have a computer station the cost is almost zero. But a good wifi modem router maybe important. I have an iphone an my Thai friend has a HTC Legend android phone. Their are many reasons someone would want to use it in a bar. If nothing else, to check the latest SPI update and use google maps to show the motorbike taxi where you live. And when I figure how to use this 5 month old iphone, I'll have more ideas. Seriously, having wifi is a good idea if it is password protected

The comment about GB is hilarious!

Isn't it good that there is variety in what is offered at bars and that gives us choices? Some nights I really like the waving willies and "uninvited hard ons." Other nights I like the beer bars just to talk with friends. Sometimes I like the bars that also offer massages. So happily bars provide different "scenes". Seating is difficult. Some bars get very crowded (or did) for their shows. Some bars have limited room and can not provide "first class reclining seats that can also become a bed". Most bars that have seats where you lie back a bit, also provide pillows where I can sit more upright. So for me, no issue. Loud music makes me uncomfortable. I really never go to a bar for loud music. I think it should be more background. If I want loud music I could put on my ear buds and listen to my ipod. I want to be able to talk the boys and my friends be it a go-go or beer bar or restaurant. And I never like "elevator" music. Smoking inside any bar air conditioned or not bothers me. I can tolerate it more at an open air bar, not at all in an air con bar which is closed in. I wish an open air bar would be required to have closed in "smoking rooms" that I see in airports. (I know this will not happen..yet) But the owners that allow smoking should consider having fans placed to move the smoke away from others. One bar I used to enjoy was "Come In" bar. I think it is a well run bar. I don't go there now because they have chairs in the street and fans that blow the smoke towards customers. So when I think I have found a place to relax away from smokers, some guy sits in front of me and the fan blows the smoke back into my face. They still have a good crowd though. I imagine controlling smoking in an open air bar (since no one wants to follow the law) is very difficult. But it makes NO SENSE to me when the owner is sitting in their open air bar chain smoking. That is one of those where the "owner wants to please himself not his customers"! Poor service is my third dislike. Owners that do not have enough staff or have poorly trained staffs are simply disrespecting their customers. Chaos in a bar or restaurant is the owner's fault, not the workers' fault. Salaries in Thailand are so low, that there is no excuse not to have a back up cook, a dedicated cashier, Trained waiters, trained bar tenders, and certain specific yet flexible duties like keeping restrooms, tables, clean and customers happy. Other than that, let the good times roll.

Last night I decided to go to Funny Boys. Sunday I did the SPI party thing, and was looking for a different experience. Those that know me know I don't go out very often...this week seems to be an exception. ANYWAY.....I enjoyed Funny Boys last night and noticed they had some new faces. To celebrate my night out, I bought a bottle of Whiskey and invited a few boys at a time to have a shot glass while I drank diet coke. What worked that night for me was to invite a boy over and let him invite another over. The thing that surprised me though, is that a few boys there were from Bangkok. Those I did briefly talk to claimed that they could not find work after finishing college (I think they meant 2 year technical school as they were 20 yrs old). I asked why not work in Bangkok, and they said it was better for them to work in Pattaya. They did not want their friends or family in Bangkok to know and they never worked in a go-go bar before). Having had a few FREE Cognacs at Chez Vickie, not sure, but the boys at Funny Boys seemed very handsome to me.....

I was watching Al Jazzera talk about illegal immigration in the USA. One Congressman brought up the idea of using the social security card with the persons picture on it. When a person goes gets a driver's license, opens a bank account, sign a loan, signs a rental contract, buys an airline ticket, etc.; this card would be swiped to help make sure a person is in the USA legally. It made sense to me and I thought about Thailand. Thailand has a national identity card for its citizens. For non citizens, we are required to go every 90 days and "report". If someone overstays their legal status. they are fined and arrested and deported. If I as a non citizen want to buy a car or motorbike, I have to go to immigration first and get a letter. If I want to stay at a hotel, I must present my passport. With today's technology, why is immigration in the USA allowed to get so out of hand? I think Thailand could teach the USA something about controlling illegal immigration. What is your view?

I do not know, but it seems that this may be a hope that the next high season actually brings in the tourists. I hope the tourist do returns and that all business owners take a look at the complaints Gaybutton put forward earlier.

I have heard so many friends say exactly what GayButton posted. I too have talked to bar and restaurant owners and each time they have no interest in taking advice from customers. In my view they are spoiled. They thought the tourist dollars would continue to flow in. The owners got together and raised prices really as a group. So there was no competition. It became a a mind set. All raise prices and customers have no choices. But it did not work as Sunnee Plaza did not go along with Boystown area. Then Jomtien joined in in being independent. Many of the bar and restaurant owners completely forgot about the expat community. They also completely overlooked the expats requests. They got lazy or didn't care. Certainly didn't listen! My friend Soi 10 Tom has said it for years. Most bars give what the owner or workers want, NOT what the customers want. He and I have been the only customers in the bar. Music blaring. We asked them to lower the sound so we can hear each other talk and nothing is done. We get up and pay our bill and leave. Even when we tell tell them why we are leaving, it does not matter. One of the 2 restaurants that are closing use to be a favorite of mine. I would eat there maybe 3 times a week. Then he raised his prices (alot) and added a ++ to the total bill. He lost many of his expat customers. I believe he did not care as he made more money from tourists. But high season became low season, then high and low season became no season, now it is "renovation" season. Cafe Royale's restaurant will be closing for 2 months. Also for renovation. Yes Cafe is a bit dated and could use a face lift and maybe that in itself will make customers return. I am skeptical. After Ian and Robbie died, the straight owner from England (who is a nice guy) made some changes. He took the staff out of their short uniforms and put them in long pants. His aged staff were no longer fun. They became robots. Food quality suffered as did service from the robots. The spirit was gone and so were the customers. Money spent on renovation is important but that alone does not make people want to spend their entertainment dollars at an establishment. GayThailand asks us to get out more and help the owners stay in business. Maybe, but I'd like to see the owners making it worthwhile for us. I go out to have fun not just spend money. The effort MUST come from them. Most are farangs that want us to give them money for a product so they (owners) can live a nice life in Pattaya. Yet they give back little. When I or my friends hold a party at their house, we want our guests to enjoy themselves. We don't charge 150 baht for every drink or 300 baht to eat at the party. Yet some owners feel that we should pay them (their bar) to visit them. Yes they have a few guys sitting around smoking talking to each other, but where is the fun? At some bars it is like going to a bakery to buy stale buns!! Bars and restaurants owners need to put us, their customers first! Wii's restaurant will be missed. They really did have a good product and was customer focused. They just did not get the word out until too late!

He posts on Facebook.

I have heard this rumor, but I think caution of believing this is in order.

The one on 2nd road going to Big C past North Pattaya

I have started to pay my bills online through Bangkok Bank. I have not yet paid the electric bill online since I just started, but did see where a message said I could pay my electric. Currently I have been having a direct debit to pay electric from a different bank. Maybe check at the bank you use in Pattaya. Bangkok Bank has been easy to deal for me. The manager is a member of the Expat Club

I thought it was SUE-knee??????????

CRES clarifies Redshirt leaders' allegedly privileged detention at Naresuan The Center for the Resolution of Emergency Situations (CRES) announced this afternoon that arrested former Redshirt leaders are not being treated with privilege as widely accused by the public, after photos of their free lifestyle at Naresuan detention camp were leaked on various websites. The Deputy Police Commander and the Deputy Metropolitan Police Commander clarified that the Redshirt leaders who surrendered themselves to the police and are being detained at Naresuan are not yet defendants in a criminal proceeding, but mere suspects of Emergency Decree violation and terrorism. They affirmed the detainees' lifestyle is as normal as that of any other detainees, with their phones confiscated. They said the detainees were put together in the same lodging as there're not enough rooms for each of them. Security around the camp remains tight. According to the Emergency Decree, each suspect can be detained up to 7 days, with a 30-day extension, which means that the present nature of the Redshirts' detention is for mere suspects. The police added that they will not wait for ex-singer turned Redshirt leader Arisman Pongruengrong who remains at large to turn himself in, but are now hunting him down. From TAN

What GT posted seems like a good idea. But what if there was another reason for the protest? The idea is still good, but I'd like to share this LONG post that came from Thaivisa. It may provoke some good debate. The following are two excerpts form an article in the AsiaTimesonlone.com Quote Fog of war The government has said it aims to separate ''terrorists'' from the ordinary protesters, while some red shirts have thanked the anonymous black-clad assailants for coming to their defense against state security forces. Therdpoum, a former member of parliament under Thaksin's original Thai Rak Thai party, says there has been obfuscation and propaganda on both sides of the conflict. "The people who are the real planners, not the people up on stage making protest speeches, these people probably keep a very low profile, but they must calculate that aggression is vital," he said. "Aggression paralyzes and divides opponents. This is what we were taught, this is how a smaller force can defeat overwhelming power. The message was: divide and conquer." Whether the UDD's shadowy armed wing consists of mafia thugs, unemployed irregulars or disaffected regular soldiers, they must be capable of ruthless and focused violence, he said. Therdpoum, born in humble circumstances in northeastern Thailand, was a hotel union organizer who fled to the communist underground in 1975 to oppose a brutal right wing government. Many hundreds of the country's most energetic students and intellectuals did the same. Most, like Therdpoum, later renounced the ideology. His five-year odyssey with the Communist Party of Thailand (CPT) included a three-month period in Hanoi in the heady period following the unification of Vietnam under communist rule. There, Therdpoum and a handful of hand-picked Thai activists, like prominent student leader Seksan Prasertkun, as well as current UDD leaders Weng Tochirakan and Jaran Dittapichai, were drilled in Maoist revolutionary theory. The five tactics they learned for unseating a government included: divide your enemies; form a united front; use provocative violence; secure the loyalty of people inside the ruling regime; and, finally, win over the army. "That is what we have seen. The government people have been quarrelling about what to do. Some senior figures have a divided loyalty. The army and the police cannot move. Provocative violence has been very successful," said Therdpoum, referring to the UDD's campaign to topple Abhisit's government. "The tactic is to keep saying that you are a peace-loving people. The many factions folded into the united front [uDD] organization are not told what the real strategy is because they might not agree and they might not act their part convincingly," he added. A generation ago, the eager young communists in Thailand's underground movement, many of whom now play major roles on Thailand's political stage, were told that propaganda should be blunt, simple and repeated incessantly to be effective. The UDD has similarly shunned hard policy debates in favor of simple credos of justice denied and the hypocrisy of elites. "The red shirt people have been told over and over that greedy people in authority have denied them justice and their fair share. They have been pumped full of toy-town leftism and told to hate every institution that has held this country together. I worry that the bitterness and hatred produced by this propaganda now runs so deep it will cause tension and problems for a long time," Therdpoum said. "Many of them are now absolutely convinced that Thaksin was the best leader in Thai history, that he was a kind and generous man who holds the solution to all their problems. They don't need a program - they just need a new Thai state with Thaksin in charge. It has become very emotional - as it was designed to be," he added. Unquote Quote Ignorance over knowledge Other observers believe that the anti-Thaksin, yellow-garbed People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) protest group that occupied Government House for several weeks and closed down Bangkok's airports for 10 days in 2008 helped to show the UDD how effective determined and prolonged protests could be. To be sure, there were violent moments during the PAD's many protests, launched first to remove Thaksin and later his proxy governments, but not to the extent of the current shadowy campaign of bombings and shootings. The red shirts consist of many passive supporters, many active ones and, now, a hand-picked core of "professional revolutionaries" chosen for their loyalty and street smarts, according to Therdpoum. Behind them are many "deep secrets and hidden messages" that are revealed to only a privileged few in the movement, while an even smaller number know the entire strategy, he claimed. "Old communists know that when it comes to revolution, ignorance is much more powerful than knowledge," Therdpoum said. It is thus ironic that more former communists are currently on side with the royalist PAD than the supposedly pro-poor UDD, which is simultaneously striving to restore the billionaire Thaksin's wealth and power. So, too, is the fact that while the UDD has called with revolutionary zeal for a new political order, the Thaksin-aligned Puea Thai party that will contest the next elections is packed with old-style and corruption-tainted patronage politicians. Therdpoum believes that the UDD's sincere left-wing members are using Thaksin and anticipate the opportunity to eventually dump his personal agenda in favor of the establishment of a more socialist society. Some of the former communists who took up arms and fled into the jungle in the 1970s and 1980s and were once in Thaksin's inner circle include Prommin Lertsuridej, Phumtham Wechayachai, Sutham Saengprathum, Phinit Jarusombat, Adisorn Piangket and Kriangkamon Laohapairot. Its unclear how many of those former communists are now active from behind-the-scenes in the UDD's planning and strategy. Some media have recently published photographs of the UDD's three main stage leaders, Veera Musigapong, Natthawut Saikua and Jatuporn Prompan, with the exiled Thaksin in what appear to be planning sessions leading up to the current protests. It is debatable, however, how much real power they wield over broad strategy and tactics; Therdpoum, for one, discounts them as "showmen". UDD organizer Jaran Dittapichai told this correspondent that the protest group had adopted "Mao Zedong's method of thinking" and some of his techniques, including the establishment of a united front. "I was a communist and several leaders were former communists ... but the red shirt people don't like communism or socialism. We use his principles to build up our front and to work with people who are not red shirts, but who are fighting for democracy like us." He, like other UDD leaders, has consistently denied that the group is behind the mysterious bombing campaign that has coincided with its protest activities. "There is no third hand. There is only the first hand and the second hand ... the government side and our people," Jaran said. "Before we started we discussed the [potential] problem of the third hand and who they might be. We were worried that someone might throw a bomb at us or shoot at us. We still have good luck - no one comes to throw a bomb [at us]." Unquote This says it all really. Thaksin was basically financing a communist-led revolution. Now we know why the red shirts chose red as their colour. I think the news coming out now provides overwhelming evidence of a very serious communist plot to overthrow the monarchy and the state as it is today and to turn Thailand into a communist state. Thaksin and his baggage would probably have been dumped. Given the mounting evidence, Thaksin and the red shirt leaders should deserve the death sentence for their actions. The probable outcome is very likely to be life sentences, given the current government's ideas on capital punishment. Let the flames from pro-red contributors begin!!! Your responses will be seen for what they are. Given all the evidence to the contrary, they will seem to be defending the indefensible."

While I respect the right of all of us to post our views, as interesting as this topic may be, this is one topic that, in my view, remains shrouded by religion whether expressed or not. Reasons given like poverty, drugs, contracts, self esteem are used to justify different arguments. I have personally known people from wealthy families, college students who graduated and did very well in their careers, those that truly liked sex with much older people, and those that did it for survival. So it is hard for me to see what the big deal or controversy is. And truthfully, I don't really care what others think. I just don't require or needs anyones' permission. Do what you want. I don't think you will have any affect on the world's "oldest profession".

Do a search on the Gay Thailand message board. I posted about the difference that I experienced about a month ago.

Not meaning to change the subject, but has anyone eaten at the Mantra? They have a great Sunday Buffet. It has everything you could imagine. I even think I saw a prostitute there. Very delicious

RichLB makes a good point in my view about not continuing business as usual. I have no idea what that will be, but with the economy possibly going into the toilet, it maybe more talk and propaganda than substantial reform. I wonder also what may happen after the "occupation" ends. I believe we will still see many problems from those that are "not satisfied" with the end of the occupation and the way it ended. There are still forces outside and inside of Thailand that must "save face". Seems after each protest by reds or yellows and other groups from past years, the court system puts blame, and something in the government changes. Is it possible the Democrats will be found guilty of election fraud and be dissolved? Will either side learn from this? Never seems to happen in Thailand. Too much corruption, too much to lose; what power can change this?

As I understand it, this protest was not to present the government with grievances. It was provocative and meant to disrupt from day 1. I certainly had a great deal of trouble getting to Bumrungrad Hospital when the protests began. Roads to 11 hospitals were blocked early on. Thaskin even tried to negotiate getting his funds held by the government by agreeing to stop the protest if his money was returned. Due to the death of my long time farang friend, I needed to travel to Isaan area and up to Northern Thailand. I was amazed how many poor farmers I met that did not support the current version of Reds but did like Taskin. Also why do some poster fail to recognize that one of the elected parties (Phu Thai)that take orders from Taskin and support the Reds. This party has the legal avenue to get legislation adopted for their Red supporters. Some other parties that use to support Taskin, withdrew their support of Taskin but still supported the rural poor. That (Newin) party formed a collation with the Democrats and a few other small parties which made the government. This is very similar to what just happened in England. The Conservative party got the most votes but not a majority to form a government. If the Liberals supported the Labor party, Labor would still have control of the government. But the Liberals supported the Conservatives so the Conservatives formed the government. Back to Thailand, where the Phu Thai (Reds) could not form a government because they could not get the necessary backing of the other parties. The Democrats did get backing and formed the legal government. Thaskin was furious with Newin who use to support him. Thaskin bankrolled the Reds to do his bidding because he could see his dream of coming back to Thailand slipping away. Right after Taskin lost in court, the Reds started to up the pressure. BUT it was the Phu Party as a legal opposition party that should have addressed the issues of the rural poor. In fact early on Newin's faction got the majority to put in place several programs to help the rural poor. One included getting a real deed to there property that the government many years ago gave families but it was given then without a true deed. Another was subsidizing rice when prices started to fall. Other policies were waiting to be approved when the financial crisis hit. This limited money available to fund these projects. So if the rural poor did not get their grievance heard, the blame lays on Thaskin's Phu Thai party. But Taskin was not fighting for the poor then. He was fighting to stay out of jail and get his BILLIONS held by the legal government and controlled by the courts back. This case worked its way through the legal system and Taskin lost. Remember Taskin got to stay in office his first term even though he filed many false statements which violated election law. The Supreme court in a controversial split decision allowed his election to stand. The Thai system was good enough for him then, but when he was convicted, Thaskin no longer believed in the courts. Lastly, Thaskin promised people like Maj. Gen. Khattiya Sawasdipol a role in Thaskin's new government. He was getting his orders from Thaskin up until the day he was shot. So this protest has NEVER been about the rural poor. They were pawns and have been deserted in the "war zone" by their leaders.