Marc308

Thanks guys, your descriptions are amazing... amazingly bad! Once upon a time (15? 20? years ago), Patong had a thriving and lively gay scene in Paradise Complex (and elsewhere). It sounds like the same plight which has visited Sunee Plaza has hit Patong now. The massage places then were also more conservative than those in Pattaya, but there certainly were "No Sex" signs on the doors, that's for sure! And Phuket in general was always more expensive (think hotels, food, transportation) than either Pattaya or Bangkok.

I sincerely hope you are not serious, Zombie! I have a nephew who is trans, and he is suffering severe anxiety.

I sure do miss Babylon! Whatta loss when it closed.

Yes eSIMs are far more useful than those TRUE or AIS SIMs sold at the airport. I mostly use Airalo (in 8 different countries thus far) with good results. Holafly is also good. No need to pay those outrageous roaming charges that most western cellular carriers charge. Luckily Airalo's eSIMs for Thailand (from DTAC) also give you a local phone number which is handy for Bolt, food delivery and Lazada purchases. Most eSIMs in other countries only give you a data allowance but no voice allowance.

Keep in mind that lasers can be dangerous -- if pointed haphazardly at someone's eyes you can literally blind them (burn their retina). Giving the laser to an inebriated customer might not be a good idea, alas.

In other words we are too damn old and won't be around all that much longer. Do you prefer that?

Oh gosh I rarely disagree with Vinapu and Omega, but hey guys, technology can be our friend! For one, the dating apps freed us from the boring bars and pushy mamasans, oh wow that was a great technological advance. The Line menu of available masseurs was a massive improvement over the old way of "hoping for the best" when going to a massage shop. Whether MFJ's idea of attaching QR codes instead of numbers would work is an open question, but at least you could learn something about the boy by getting some immediate feedback ("name", age, T/B, language proficiencies, size? ...) Technology has made Lazada possible, Bolt possible, ghost kitchen meal delivery possible... Someone clever will surely come up with a better way to breathe new life into the dying go-go bars. If not, the next generation (or current generation!) will put a nail in their coffin for sure. We, the retired and near-retired expats residents/visitors, do not have the financial profile nor the actuarial longevity that the industry needs to thrive.

Let me go back to my OP. When Jim and Gordon came to town, there was almost no precedent elsewhere in the gay world for the kind of interesting (and profitable!) businesses they built -- a pleasant, clean hotel; a nice friendly restaurant with a variety of cuisines; a bar (BBB) which packed them in every night to overflowing while still offering drinks at a reasonable price (99 baht). All this was innovative and revolutionary. Their foresight and creativity made a whole industry in Boystown, with spillovers in Sunee, Day & Night, and even North Pattaya. Their concepts were entirely appropriate for the 1980s/1990s. We must move on OR face extinction. Especially in low-season, going to a bar nowadays is an expensive, forlorn and lonely experience with dispirited boys using their smartphones, expats chatting with each other oblivious to most other goings-on, loud music which is usually ear-splitting. I'd say the biggest innovation since, and perhaps the one which has the longest staying power, is the appointed massage. Maybe this model will grow more (will Soda Massage adopt it?) And yes I found the 3 hour trip to Jey Spa to be well worth the time spent, just to get out of Pattaya for awhile: Super clean, nice guys, more or less reasonable prices. Why don't we have a decent one in Pattaya?? That would be a start.

BINGO wow that's the most exciting innovation I have heard of from Jomtien in YEARS!! :0 Some genius at @Home must have dreamt that one up to excite the crowds! Seriously folks, aren't there better ways to "have fun" than sit around punishing our livers while passively oogling the merchandise? You know many years ago Jim Lumsden and Gordon May came to town and built Boys Boys Boys and the Ambiance Hotel and totally revolutionized the gay scene in Pattaya. It was hard work, and risky work. Just WHEN is the next generation of innovators going to remake our precious city into an appropriate 21st century scene? The current "ambiance" doesn't appear to be working for anyone under 50. Just stroll through JC to see the graying of our compatriots. The clock is ticking!

Good point. I've seen too many of our brethren actively plying young boys with cigarettes, potentially condemning them to a life of coughing and wheezing, addiction to high priced cigarettes, and potentially to lung and other cancers. No one should feel obliged to drink, smoke or do drugs of any kind. I should hasten to add "unsafe sex" to the list as well!

Yes I've been in that office one time and was hoping for listing of rentals. Instead the staff were intent on selling me a new unit. Perhaps I should have prevailed longer in asking for medium-term rentals, but it was obvious their bread and butter was from commissions selling new units in whatever VT#n was on the market at the time. The frailty and disorganization of the real estate market in Pattaya never ceases to amaze me. There must be a better way... Some entrepreneur out there should try to make a consolidated listing website. Just a pipe dream I guess.

Thanks MFJ that information is very helpful thanks!

Sure you will! Keep trying! Even cursory conversation skills will add immeasurably to your experiences in the LOS! I remember one of my earliest trips to Thailand I met a western guy who (working here?) was so fluent in Thai. I said to myself that I could never master the mysterious language either. Well after some years of work (yes it is work) and many language books, conversational tapes, trying to read and pronounce, understanding tones and high-low vowels, etc. I've made reasonably good progress. But yes it does take WORK. If you are older than 3 years old (ahem), language is learned by WORKING. (Oh how I am jealous of those 3 year olds who speak so much more fluently than me!)

Thanks. Well as for the VTs, there seems to be an agency on Thappraya Road, which does do listings for all the VTs it appears. And yes there are agencies near most/all of the large condo complexes (there are two very near Jomtien Complex Condotel) but neither appeared to be interested in multi-month rentals. It's either short stay (read, by the day) or long-term (usually 6 months minimum). Using short-stay rates, a multi-month rental would cost about 2x or 3x more than monthly market rates. VT1 and VT2 may be an exception?

That's a challenge! My favorite but a bit pricey is Grand Centre Point Terminal 21, at Asok. VERY convenient to both BTS and MRT and Airport Line (Makkasan). The one-bedroom apartments on offer are spectacular, and super cheap by western standards but quite expensive by Thai standards. About $149/night on Agoda if you look for bargains. The same apartment in my home city would be around $800/night. LWLT