pong2

Of course depends from where and I have been looking-mostly simple overview google.flights a few monthes & waiting &waiting-till all these extra requirements fell-and then waited&waited till the OK for the 45 days (more as 30-no visa hassle for longer stay) and then looked again&again-and the prices only grew higher. Singy is not in them-and strangely this was a lot cheaper from nearby airport in other country-but still, then you look-with +20 hrs transit wait in Changi. Last yrs I mostly used Swiss, coming from EURope, as the transit break halfway in the Mid-East disturbs any chance on sleep etc. But they now have extra to pay for luggage etc-total price was indeed near double pre-covid and even >1000. And they also changed the timings a lot. Saudi now offers also flites-dry of course and change in their homeland-now the lowest priced, but pretty bad reviews. Never used them, but plenty of other airlines from arab countries. So just a few days bit the bullet, forked out about 250 more as usual long ago and booked in the AB380 on EK =emirates, coming back long wait in Dubai. Could not fit in kratong, thats a pity, and not yet counting the days till. Abdismaili, I guess you from Malaysia, selamat malam dari disini, so its for you I think AirAsia-and they are really in the doldrums due to covid-here in EURope these lowcost airlines are also now about double or more for short flights. There also used to be Malindo (allied to Indonesia LIONair-bad safety record), in Thailand trading as ThaiLionAir, but I have no idea if they still fly.

With current still pretty low nrs I think (thats some experience from yrs ago working next to the travel biz) that ´consolidations´=airline speak for cancellations, due to low nr of bookings are more a risk at UTP. Its all BKK-air to Samui, small planes (for those who do dislike it: mostly turboprop, no real jet) and its TH after crisis so nothing will move when they feel it makes a loss. Perhaps when hi-season really swings back in this is less of an issue. Many of these flights in fact rely on travel agencies sending out large enough groups to fill most of that plane

back to subject: its app. But what apps did you use and are you aware that some are off the main list for most westerners-or even linked to TH only major sites. Fairly often its mostly in Thai and also by various fb-groups-that may spring up & die in a few weeks.

Both are islands, but the differences are quite big east/west of mainland means nearly opposite wet/dry seasons-wet is when monsoon winds hit land. Phuket has fixed link to mainland, Samui remains ferry or fly in. Phuket has Th´s main 2nd airport for international, Sam only expensive domestic flites by BKK-airways Phuket is most def the last yrs (all pre=covid) a rather expensive package/touristy type of place, Samui remains-more or less- the old vibe of bekpekking all by yourself, though its not cheap at all by normal Thai standard. This is the usual general touristy stuff to be found in guideboox and www etc.-from my own memory of times I was partly attached by work to the ´travel bisnis´ HKT did have a kind of established gayforpay scene, Samui not really-some trials to start the gay bar ´to fill the gaps´ usually went banktrupt/closed after main season had gone. Now toss a coin-or decide by yourself

Me thinks best latest info is on the blogspot of christianpfc. He stayed there till early this yr-due to covid-reentry restrictions in Thailand so had plenty of time to spare. Plus he is determined budgetteer and findouthimself type. Also some reports about his visits to other minor provincial towns. From what he describes I got the idea that due to law&etc it is not allowed as such to directly´off ´guys/persons, but most bars allow discreetly to have personal arrangements made after bar closes. Thats all up to the guys. Cambodia has a big history of all types of dowell development agencies that also introduced all the western ´hypes´ of that time-leading to all kinds of petty regulations. Though of course this is more like a side-effect of what has been intended as a basic good plan. There was also a short-few days report later from a747 on this forum, as sidetrip out of Thailand Indeed app etc is now the main mode to make contacts, followed by the massageshops (ask for extra service, if guy himself does not propose before-mostly 20/25US$ tip). I recall that most persistent behavior of guys in bars was watching their tiny screens if any search would hit them. On also gets a bit the idea that all the better guys have left it and are now working already in Thailand-Pattaya is a big draw for them.

Just read in a general Thai forum/blog in a special language that this proposal now seems official and published in -thats a need for any law in TH- the ´Royal Gazette´. Lasting from 1/11/22 till 31/3/23, anyone qualifying for otherwise a 30-day visa-free enrty now will get 45 days stamped in passp. Still unclear of any extension being done in that term will also be for 45 or still only for 30 days (this is a common way for many to do extended stay without the hassle of getting visa advance). Now lets hope that the check-in witches at airports will also accept this and not refuse boarding as you do not have the ticket OUT in 30 days.......... (in case it does happen: easily sold by booking on the spot-thats todays advantage-the cheapest AirAsia or whatever out in 30 days-but thats unnneeded expense and airtickets to TH are already much more expensive as used to be. The relatively cheapest tend to be fixed without any chance to change.

Having ´done´ about all its lines through the yrs-without any wish to do that again, I can thus personally testify that at least 3 times I got a kind of ´proposal´ from some conductor/sleeper-car attendant (male). But I will not do the math/stats, it might as % still even be less as what one can encounter in normal everyday Thai life out of that Silom area (not having been Pattaya since around 2000 we leave that aside). Esp. many young male supermarket staff (probably pretty bored with that job) can be quite entertaining and proposing.......... To post: it must hence be yet another ´donation´ of JR that relieves them of the need to bring it to in Japan probably a costly break down affair. SRT also has 2nd hand cars from QR=Queensland rails (who said it was not gay?), many more from Japan, and once (I think under Abhisit) got a few new UK-built ´sprinter´sets´, also much in use with BritRail-or whatever-at that time-and used for a kind of prestigious and high supplement ´fast´ train-which may have lasted a year or 2.Untill maintenance of these technically then too advanced iron monsters became-as so often- the stumbleblock

Yes-that cfs was really good-a long time ago. I just checked it a few days ago and it was simply dead-even though they tell it now covers all of ASEAN. BKK was/is always famous for its canalside cruising, success garanteed, for MBs-klong Lot, the canal running south from the Sanam Luang toward Chinatown. And long time ago that was also in ChiangMai evenings along the moat canal near the rebuilt gate-thats gone. Recent reports told about VN guys hanging out along Silom, between the well knowns sois 2 to 6-some said near the busstop @ Christ. Hospital (thats near 6). ut again thats MBs looking for trade. Some parks in BKK had a faint reputation for having it-after closing time (mostly 20.00 or 21.00-its always dark in the tropics then) and near soldiers barracks/etc. This included a park (Saran Rom) between klong Lot and Wat PO. But frankly, IMHO it seems it is all just chance and random luck-or not. Plus that those Thai still going that way may not like white/other farang at all. Traditionally contacts in Thai were/are still very often the richer/older daddy/uncle seeking the younger/poorer guy having just come to town bahtless. You can-as khun lung GB explains-meet willing Thai at any place/any time. In fact those on the prowl will probably first find you as the other way around

What a nonsense. An awful traffic clogged, super noisy through road-one of BKKs main arteries for its choking traffic, though there is now also a clean and very efficient MRT metro underneath. Mostly for Chinese only-sit at rickety chairs/tables where rows of 30 yrs old diesel fumes spewing citybuses chug by (I mostly know it as I sat in those red buses, mostly the 53 circular), no footpath, no traffic management. Probably-or at least pre-pandemic, also a hide-hole for illegal Chinese. Which is nothing new-it started about that way when the Chinese came invade Thailand. For an open-air street -evening-market food with more flair: Tonglor/and opposite, along further out Sukhumvit. Or-go with a Thai-just over the bridge near the flower market just off Ywr-in Thonburi. The current situation about the open air guys market promoting themselves along Klong Lot canal-in between this road and Sanam LUang/Palace I dont know-I think der christian has mentioned it somewhere in his post-covid overview. In all BKK-big city must have at least 30+ of such food-evening-street-eat out venues, some even closed off for normal traffic those times. I think by far the most biggest is on the grounds of RamKamHaeng uni-an open field daytime along that road (still no rail-line to it, bus 60/537 or like 115 or 116 from Silom).

OR use the free shuttle between the 2 airpts-was also available if you arr at DMK-and then the more frequent Bell from Swampy. I expect-having had a little bit too much of tricks by Thai buses-that if bus is not full at DMK it will simply also serve Swampy and make a full load. Unless this shuttle has also given up belly up since...........

These rankings on tr-adv should be taken with a few tons of salt-certainly those with <1000 such and out of USA. One can buy these for less as 50 cts/each in India. As has also been subject in several other topics-changes come fast and in multitude in TH and one always has to adopt if one wants to cling to the old memories-how sweet they maybe are

Mostly very similar to how Thailand itself has changed in those 20 yrs (ahum, now that you ask it-my first visit was in the 80ies, so I am nearing the 40 yrs jubilee. However, the very first was out of Malaysia as a normal young bekpekking tourist and was not that inviting to come back soon-I was hooked to Indonesia that period-and in fact still kind of like it more as Thai). And it always surprises me how even much normal economy and daily living can change in TH when I return(ed-as in the past <covid) after 1/2 year-another wet season passed by. They all have a fone-or 2. They are tech-savvy with those things. They are much sooner bored with just sitting=waiting for possible clients to pop in. Most do not really want anymore to follow in bars what the big boss dictates, nor is here really a big need to do so. Command of foreign languages is far higher (chinese is also a difficult thing to learn for Thai). The most wanted brands for clothing have likely changed-the shoes remain Nike, but who wears shoes in bars/places? The walkmen (remember those?) have gone for passing time. The real advanced have even adapted to a cash-less world - pretty common in western Eur for now. The amount of guys talking about poor mums/dads over there in the ricefarms of Isany has dwindled a lot. And yes-it is no more just Thai+the odd foreigner from just beyond sneeking over-rather reverse. Big shift from being offed from bars to ready to act massageshops.

MBK should be first choice for this-plus that its even reasonably easy to get to on the BTS+ short walk. Then you can also admire the newly turned into yet another ´walking street´ on what are uni-grounds in Siam Centre-other side of road. About all stalls here are driven by Burmese. There are/were also 2 foodcourts-a much cheaper one for the locals and vendors a bit hidden on a high floor. If still some culture is wished for after the tackiness: perhaps that sloping round museum/exhibition building opposite has some exposition going on. Next best -plus a dip into the other side of the s.. bisnis: Sukhumvit, the lower sois abound(ed?) with street and soi-side stalls. Also easy on the BTS+ 1 change at Siam. Walk-if you can manage-till that tower/mall with dirt cheap food court on 6th or 7th-just below the cinemaś and get MRT (=underground, gives half fare to seniors from all nations) back. Easy to spend the afternoon. You´ll just pass by soi CowBOY-except that this does not do many boys............

Back to the original question: this applies in fact for many a Thai too. It is mostly only the family that will forever support them. It is written in some scientific-sociological thesis and also hinted at in many manuals for ´howtolive in TH´ and even, as I remember in that old bible for us, TMOT: The Men Of TH. Which dear khun gaybutton also underlines. It seems ANY relation for a Thai can never be equal, but there is always a higher and lower one. But these nasty farang do not know that and do all kind of things that not belong to their higher status. In my own-limited- experience, the best such relations on a more equal base were with - Thai muslim guys, thus without the Buddhist way of thinking-though what is Thai and what is Buddhist is extremely hard to tell. But that often gets marred as they all were very much in the hiding toward their family. And that sample was not big, so it may have been pure chance. It is not tipical ASEAN at all-I favour the Indonesians (not specific the Balinese) for that the most.

No, never did that in Pty-and its still quite a very long time in yrs since I was there (though now contemplate it for next trip-cool season, airfares permitting, I am getting older too and also double pensions). BUT have done that for at least 20 yrs in BKK (untill that pandemic came) and there its named Klissemash. It is for Thai a normal working day (if it is mo-fr) and the main association they may have with it-its Thai after all´ is ´paahtee.´ The time leading to it will be festooned with jingle bells and santas riding on sleighs in the snow-also not quite a normal thing in tropical Thai. Soon after it the better times come: BKK empties out (of locals), even traffic may get a nice breeze and very manageable, untill 31/12 followed by 1/1, which is by far a much bigger ´pahtee´ and well worth being at, also bcse big-city BKK (the local govmt) will lay on fireworks and more nice and free things for those poor who have to remain in town. A rather tipical fenomenon for us is the belief of all bar/gogo/etc guys that 1/1 is the very best day in the yr as clients will flock in as it is supposed to bring good luck (choke dee) which is a well-known and very Thai superstition. Again 1/1 is just a western invention-as all Thai know the real Nw Yr starts on 14/4, songkran, in the Buddhist counting and has to be done with ample throwing of dirty klong water. Plus that its very intercultural-the tipical boss will be Chinese so has Chinese Nw Yr-varying dates, another hi-peak time for incoming tourists (the Singys and the Malays etc.), and is obliged to treat his workers with presents. Another so-so advantage for us is that the VNese go home, as their idea of NwYr also is on that date-they name it Tet. But whereas BKK empties out, it seems to me that Pty has peak-time-even quite a lot of Thai seem to think this is a fashionable holiday-retreat (but so it seems are other seaside places like HuaHin etc.). THis may lead to the dis-advantage that the competition for the best guy to serve you also heats up. But others who have experienced it may know more how that will work out. Thai: melly klissemash, or Sawasdee Phimai (=happy/welcome Nw yr).

Laundy: hah, you do not yourself-plenty of places where they will do it for you-in Thai places priced by the kg, in neat western-style )(probably most over there) by the piece. Casual daytime (sloppy?) clothes: take it under the shower, hang out, next morning dry and clean The well-known sites of booking and agoda (=bokg mostly for asia) do not list all, but most and have easy and lots of different choices/options If feeling a bit unsure about it: hire HTL for first few days and visit the places-there will be many more locally. You greatly enlarge choice by being not too specific and able to alk a bit.

So-whilst I now sit a bit bored in the UK- I figure it is not the old Golden Cock, but a little further-that would mean the building that was many moons ago erected as a new gay-centre-to-be from the owners of what today is Moonlight (behind the Suriwong HTL) if my old memory still has it. It failed miserably as such in a few monthes-so I hope this predestiny will not fall again. The former fairly rich offerings in this and side sois have also dwindled to just Nature Boy (merged with the remains of the G Cock) and perhaps still SuperA?-in the narrow side soi off.

Thanks-never heard of. But could you give some more info, please/ I do mot do twit nor any of those ´socials´. Plus that lately both MRT and BTS and the new red line=SRT have been extended a lot and taxiś still go everywhere for less as a London metro fare. I have been all over BKK on the BMTA=citybus through the years, till farthest corners and outposts. But still have not made it back nor even have booked for BKK now. In general the Thai-style suburban places do not have a special style, but more a variety to suit all tastes-Thai taste that is. Plus they have much more to simply rely on who is available at the time and willing

Yes-that was/is moreorless the general universal rule for about all bars. IF they do not show up on a day they are rostered, it will be assumed they had an off. But as about all things Thai in a small bisnis where personal contacts and also bisnis-value of the better performing guys (solely in terms of receipts to the till) play an important rule-plus that about any ´rule´ whatsoever anywhere in Thailand will have many exceptions and other important considerations-nothing is set in stone. It can all change by the minute or whims. Now that staff are much harder to get and need incentive to stay longer, bars have to give in to their old-style enforcements

But does Senso (never been, nor intend to go there) not have those tablets/fones where the captain/the one who receives guests can show more and also -if asked the right way- whisper some more info? Nearly all the more Thai-style such msg shops in suburbia have that Can only remember Arena from pre-covid days yet, but that reception was always a bit overwhelming to my taste. Too many guys to try out before you hit the right one-and then he is not there next time.

@I: the ´wages´ if paid at all are laughingly low compared to what guys COULD earn by what they are there for. Most bars instead offer free meals, regular outings//´pahtees´ etc to keep up the common club-spirit. Which in fact is pretty common for many other bisnis in TH too. @II: that has been done since many yrs-and in the lower graded Thai establishments which I used to visit -till covid struck- at least 50% of the guys were from there + Laos and even more from Khmerland=Cambodia. But many of them were forced to go home in covid and have not yet re-appeared The MAIN reason that less and fewer Thai come there is simply demography: every year fewer births, half of them are guys, and thus the pool to fish in gets smaller and smaller. The once so common 5/even10+ kids in an Isan family-all gone. And I just read that as tourism is rebouding-Thai HTLs struggle with finding staff- a same-same sign.

Oh dear-and only now I see this-you should have posted it separately announcing as re-start. But again many thanks for your truely enjoyable reports. K-man reminded me of a by now very old K-Male-way further up -somewhere at the back side of old Don Muang airport-for me this one remains the nr 1***** of all BKKś massage shops. Though at that time it was before the apps: you went there and saw the guys (in the start they had a kind of dry ´aquarium´ -but that was soon done away with) and choose. After 1 session the guy advised me I should come same time next week and ask for X- (have you ever heard such a thing?)- and he was 111% right-X became my favorite still of all Thai guys-we kept contact till he left UNI and is now running (or was) as setting up coffee and later juice/vegan shops. Judging from your map&description I got the feeling that this K-man was a re-incarnation of a shop that moved to there from Pradipat road-had to move as it was in a hotel-compound which went down and raized to the ground. For a long while they mostly had kind of hilltribe guys from a mixed Thai-Burmese origin. I bet your masseur had never encountered a white client before-hence his hesitations. On another subject: the story by numazu went about things for boxers: well, in TH -but any bozer guy would know that- these are clustered around the boxing stadiums-there used to be dozens of them in between Siam square and MBK. But the stadium has moved also to way out suburbia

From my previous job-admittedly ended some years ago now in happy retirement-on the side of what some call ´the travel industry´ I can clearly state that about any of the dedicated gay tours agencies etc. did not see any remote ´market´ interest from enough people, and not even talking about that time would suit them etc. to organise such trips as Mavica describes. But that comes from ´the continent´ of EUrope. Even organised short time tours to such well-known gay resort like places like Mykonos in summer, Ibiza, Canarias etc were more often cancelled due to low interest as running. Take it as it is, but gays seem to be a most individual type of people and if they would even consider to go in a group what seems to matter most is that he+he+him etc are not in that group-an utmost impossible task for an agency to organise and still make some profit. They also seem to have no real ´midmarket´-it is either superdeluxe does not matter what it cost or barebones bekpekking. THis is not at all my own preference, I am here just passing on from sources well into this type of business how they feel about it

Back to original: in fact many of such places in Thai suburbia often have 2 ´MIN´ tips (the Thai simply take that as the price to pay, MIN means nothing to them), for hard and soft. What you describe clearly is ´soft´. Have not still yet been back to TH since covid outbreak, but just before in such places the tip was mostly 500/1000 for soft/hard. That 1000 would indeed include ´everything´ Quotes of some spoilt JoU-TIPah guys etc have nothing to do with massageshops. And again: really, there is no clear sign (like the recent raise for postage stamps) that ´the fees/tips go up´. There is also no general listing nor tariff for such still semi-legal activities in TH. I think British railways call that-in their own quest of trying to get as much as possible out of their clients: ´what the market will bear´