SolaceSoul

Denial is not just a river in Egypt. It might be valuable to read the great insight that TomCal provides here: http://www.boytoy.com/forums/index.php?/topic/23290-2015-porto-alegre-and-rio/page-7#entry134945 There might not be money directly exchanging hands like a garoto in a sauna or a rentboy ad, but it's still about gifts, dinners, favors, economics and security.

I'd be very interested in knowing why the hustler bars and restaurants in Rio have all gone away. Have the politics of the city shifted to the right (this is what closed down all the great hustler and stripper bars in New York City -- when Giuliani came into office)? Was it purely economic? Was it a cultural shift? Or are hustler bars just a thing of the past? They are almost nonexistent now in the USA. There still seems to be one in São Paulo and one in Santo Domingo, DR, both seemingly thriving with patrons.

I started out in the "street scene" like you, so we may be somewhat kindred spirits, MsGuy. Also, I tend to cringe at colonialist attitudes of proprietorship or superiority, particularly when it comes to people of color and/or socioeconomically disadvantaged people. The Eurocentric and/or quintessential "Ugly American" traveler is a behavior model I constantly must battle and try to chip away, little by little with every trip. For example, I don't know if it was on this message board or on another one, but I recall one very presumptuous poster saying that he would "treat the sauna boys to a good meal at a nice restaurant" instead of tipping them nicely after a hot session... what, because going to a trendy or nice restaurant and keeping you company instead of giving them the money and the free time to choose what they wanted to do with it surely suits the garoto's needs FAR more than it could ever suit the client's purposes, right? Oy vey.

One step forward, two steps back! Sorry to ruin my saintly image for you, MsGuy! :-)

A peculiar comment coming from the same poster who initiated this conversation in this thread with the following remark:

It's a balance, but it need not cause any grief or headaches. I think clients should pay what they feel comfortable paying without feeling either ripped off or taking advantage of someone in a compromised situation. If someone puffs their chest out because they can pay 80 reais when another might pay 150, and they think that makes them somehow more attractive, desirable or smart, then that client is just fooling himself. Conversely, paying a garoto 200 reais just to show him that you have more dough than other clients may not necessarily be the sharpest tactic either, because the difference it makes in the quality and quantity of time spent could be negligible. Ultimately, spend what you feel most comfortable, spend what makes you happy and what you can afford. It all evens out in the end. When I am not traveling alone, my travel buddies include some guys on the high-end of big-spender scales (investment bankers, lawyers, surgeons, software engineers, TV producers, screenwriters) all the way to fixed-income retirees, public school teachers, and always broke model/actor/waiter/personal trainers. Everyone's spend and budget varies, but no one ever leaves the sauna or Brazil without a huge smile on their face. The difference between 80 reais ($20 USD) and 150 reais ($38 USD), to me, is very insignificant when I am vacationing, not like if I were investing in commercial real estate by dollar per square foot or short-selling shares on NASDAQ. And I know the difference can mean a lot for the receiver, a lot more than it could for me. However, I fully understand the need for others to be more concerned about the price differences and to make sure that their entertainment / pleasure dollar stretches.

I'm not a huge fan of LeBoy but on one of my recent trips with male and female friends, we went there as it was one place we could all go to enjoy ourselves. When we were leaving the club and hailing a taxi, this really fine, built young man at the corner waved at me and of course, I went over to chat. He immediately said, "sexo?", so I figured he was hustling. I was with a group of friends, male and female, but if I were alone (or even with just one other whorish male friend), I would've went for it! This was in October 2013, on a weekend night around 2-3 am. I haven't been back to LeBoy since even though I've done Rio several times since then, but I'd imagine the street corner action around LeBoy is still about the same.

So, you're special? That's your experience and perhaps even just your perception. I am reporting what I have personally witnessed and what I've been told by sauna workers, strippers and various, sundry escorts / hustlers about my very overweight friend, who is literally more than twice my size (I am 6'2 and weigh around 185). I don't know how big you are, but in any book, my friend is considered obese (even though he is working on it, for his own health). Another Brazil story: a group of us (4), including my very big friend, were going to a party in Salvador and had a driver. The driver refused to pick him up because he was "muito grande" and he was afraid the car's axel would break (whether that is an unreasonable concern is beside the point). He had to get another cab willing to take him, which was his responsibility since we already had a driver. The social and business attitudes about the obese are very different in other cultures from how they are in the States. Back to sauna workers, strippers and escorts: another contributing factor to my big friend's prices are his demands versus his size. He doesn't just want the boy to lie there, he requires them to do more work. This probably greatly contributes to their asking price, as it's a lot more work for them to work around a guy with that much weight on him. BTW, this same friend doesn't complain about whatever price he does pay in Brazil because he knows the quality and price is still FAR better than he could dream of getting otherwise. I think most of us, no matter what our weight or looks may be, feel the same way about Brazil.

One of my friends that I sometimes travel with is a great guy but he is very overweight. He only slightly stands out in a crowd in the USA, where obesity is the new normal, but the several times that we travel together to places like Brazil, it's a problem. He gets charged more at the saunas and more for massages, because as the boys have told me, "he's twice as large and twice the work". Actually, come to think of it, he gets charged more by strippers for lap dances in the USA as well, for the same reason. That being said, as mvan1 has eloquently stated, the boys do talk about clients. If the word gets out that a client will pay more (or overpay), the other boys will soon find out, and the price for that client goes up. Similarly, if a client becomes too much work, or is overbearing, or is very easy and relaxed and not too demanding, that word gets around too. The clients you may notice that are holding court and seem to have a harem of garotos attending to their needs, or a revolving door of garotos, tend to fall into the latter category.

Yes. Some people also need to stop applying Eurocentric / Americanized notions of sexuality and romantic relationships to everything. In other parts of the globe, men can have sex with other men -- even passionately -- and not consider themselves gay or even bisexual. If you're constantly seeking to imitate what's sold in certain modern-day cultures as valid love, romance and relationships, then you might miss out on Some great interpersonal relationships and experiences with other men (and women) in different parts of the planet.

Well, shit, that Wikipedia "definition" covers practically every kind of mutually agreed-upon relationship or be air, from full monogamy to open arrangements, So, yes, using that obtuse definition, plenty of us have had those with sauna boys, rent boys, sugar babies and the like. Nice work if you can get it.

Yes, Ben Franklin is VERY attractive to many a looker. The problem though is too many are trying to pass off George Washington ($1 bill and 25 cents) and Abe Lincoln (one penny and $5 bill) as a substitute for Ben Franklin!

I think you'd have to define what you think is a "real long-term relationship". There are men that I've known for years from other countries who I've met "under peculiar circumstances" that are closer to me than guys that I've met and dated in the very same city in which I live. I've had a few of them visit and stay with me on visas for longer than some gay and straight "relationships" last. One is actually staying with me in the States now! I know some gay and straight guys -- the incomes here are mixed, so all of these guys aren't wealthy, but they do tend to skew higher income than average -- who have met their spouses or partners in foreign countries, from saunas to beaches and resorts where locals look for rich tourists to discos to straight-up whorehouses. And one of these former "model"/whorehouse workers (a woman) is now the heiress to the fortune of a recently-deceased clothier! Most of the guys I know who are into this don't post here or anywhere online and probably wouldn't ever consider it, but this is more common than one may realize, particularly if you've got the resources and if it floats your boat. However, not everyone is into it or even dings guys and girls like this attractive so it's a small subset to begin with. My fairly extensive experience with rentboy types, sugar babies, etc. from all over the planet is that this (to find a sugar daddy and get off the market) is the dream of a lot of them worldwide -- much more than it is the dream of the daddies or the ones who are paying, who really just want to keep their options open. There are always exceptions to every rule, though.

Good-looking daddies with money to spend and financial stability/security NEVER have a problem attracting men or women, of any age, in any country. If you still have the looks to go with the money, that's even better. But if you don't, it's an inverse relationship -- meaning that the less you have of one, the more you will need of the other.

Axiom, please consider changing your font to something much simpler to read on a screen. The cursive characters are very difficult for others to read. A sans serif choice, of which there are many, is legible and preferable for readers. Here is an article that might be helpful: http://www.pallasweb.com/fonts.html

Oh, my English is perfectly fine. Apparently, your mathematical analysis skills need some work, though. A survey of one is not a scientifically acceptable poll. 51% of the board members? Again, was a poll conducted? Look, it's clear that you're an internet troll with wayyyyyyyyyy too much time on his hands. You're probably also a troll in real life as well. Nevertheless, until you can show that a quorum of the board members were surveyed, and over half of them agree with you, then your statement attacking mvan is just conjecture on your part, and is a personal attack. Just as it is conjecture that you probably look like a fucking troll (but that is easily provable by asking the boys at the saunas that you visit if they hold their noses and close their eyes while they take your money). I don't know you, mvan or axion from a hole in the wall. However, I can guarantee you that it wouldn't take very much at all for me to find out who you were if you regularly visit these spots in Brazil, and I actually truly cared enough to do it. So, if you have some issue with this poster mvan, it would be advisable for you to stop trolling him on the Internet. Trolls like you aren't as protected behind computer screens as they like to believe they are.

You actually think that it is impressive that you have way too much time on your hands to have accumulated hundreds of posts at this message board? And that places you in some select, coveted, social group? Seriously? What are you, 13 years old and in junior high? You remind of me of those awkward girls in junior high school that were so desperate to be noticed and popular that they would form their own "exclusive" clubs with each other that no one else wanted to be in, anyway.

You're "sure most of us are"? Have you conducted a survey? I was not consulted.

I've known "Fabricio" for a few years and this story just doesn't quite seem like him. I also wouldn't expect him, much less any Netgay advertiser, to agree to 150 reais for the hour. That seems very low for Netgay. Plus, it seems like you asked him to show up at one place (which takes time and money), then agreed to go to yet another place (more time and money). If he's getting paid for his time, even at 150 reais and hour, I'm guessing this whole travel experience for him was about 1.5 hours or so. So 300 reais would make sense. Secondly, going to a rentboy's place, whom you do not know, in a foreign land? Not very advisable. Your after-the-event advice is good for everyone, but your grievous errors were easily avoidable. "Fabricio" is not an aggressive or violent person as far as I know, so you're lucky because it could've been far worse with another individual. Think with your big head and not your little one.

After the 2016 Olympics will be an even better time to buy, because it's going to get a whole lot worse there economically before it gets any better. Whatever is left of their big artificial bubble that is now being propped up now just for show will burst sometime after the Games. Signed, Wall Street-based Investment Analyst

Look at the second photo in the article posted. The thieves could've used an ATM PIN capture overlay device.

Thanks, mvan1! I am familiar with that area, and although I wouldn't recommend others who are less familiar and easier targets than I am walk from the train station or from a hotel, I could do it from where I often stay. I love a good hustler bar (not any of them really left in USA, but years ago in my youth, there used to be some great ones in LA, NYC, DC, Atlanta and Miami. There also used to be a great hustler restaurant / bar in Rio (Corunjinha) but sadly, it no longer has any hustler scene. I will check it out next time aim in São Paulo, especially since I am usually just winding down after the saunas anyway. It would be great to know the better nights.to go to this hustler bar. Do you recall the better, more crowded times and nights?

If you have 45 minutes to an hour to spare, and you want to save money, then take the Real Airport Bus from GIG to Copa. It only costs about $6 USD a person. It is very comfortable and air conditioned, usually not very crowded and typically rides down Avenida Atlantica, or Rua Barata Ribeiro, a parallel street two blocks away, depending on the day. It will stop at the corner that your hotel or apartment is located if you ask the driver. It also picks up at the domestic airport Santos Dumont as well, for a cheaper rate. You catch the Real bus right outside baggage claim, the same area you'd catch the other buses or vans. Just look for bus signs and a sign for the Real bus to Copa. On my last trip there, I along with 3 other traveling friends took the Real bus instead of a taxi because we had way too much luggage for all 4 of us to fit in one car, and since we all arrived before 9 a, and couldn't check in until around noon, it made sense for us to take the scenic route on the bus. It was very convenient, and we used the extra reais we saved on the garotos at the sauna that night.

25 kilos is about 55 pounds. The limit for check-in of Brazilian domestic flights for both of those airlines is < 51 pounds / 23 kilos. They probably gave you a lucky break since you were only over a pound / kilo or two. Sometimes it happens. Sometimes it doesn't. Count your lucky stars. I wouldn't bank on it, though, unless you have a backup plan.

On my last three trips from NYC to Brazil, I did multiple cities. One trip was 5 weeks' 5 cities, another was 4 weeks, 3 cities, and another was about 2 weeks, 3 cities. On each trip, I end up paying overbaggage fees of about $125 USD per each Brazilian domestic flight. My check in bag is usually around 50-60 pounds and my carry on is about 20 pounds. This is well under international limits, which is about 75 pounds, but for Brazilian domestic flights, I believe the weight limit is right under 51 pounds collectively for check-in and 11 pounds collectively for carry-ons. The best way to avoid this altogether is to fly from your origin point with less than 50 pounds total on check-ins and 10 pounds total of carry-ons. Read this page for TAM's domestic baggage policies: http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/TAM_Airlines/baggage.php