SolaceSoul

When making a declarative statement like "most guys [in a certain location] are not that attractive", it is imperative that the writer also states what his particular tastes in men are. Otherwise, claims like this are useless to others, because personal tastes can vary widely and dramatically -- even on sites like this one. For example, there are many posters here who have posted photos of guys that they swoon over that I wouldn't even piss on if they were on fire. And I'm sure some many look askance at some or many of the men I really like.

What's the going rate for a pinguero (hustler / escort) in Havana now? Hourly and overnight? Asking for a friend.

An oversimplification: Lagoa has muscle boys and supermodels, like 117 in Rio. Fragata has everyday, more "approachable"-type Brasileiros like Meio Mundo in Rio. Lagoa is larger and swankier, but Fragata is more intimate. I've had friends that have liked only one or the other, and some that have liked both. But the general consensus is Lagoa is the best of the best in the Americas. Both are in relatively good, safe neighborhoods for walking to nearby Metros, or taking taxis / catching Ubers. It's possible, but not recommended, to do both in one night, but the driving time would be about 20-30 minutes depending on traffic, and metro times would make them about 45-55 minutes apart from each other. So, in other words, if you want to go to both in one night, take a car between the two. Best nights for Lagoa: Thursday through Saturday. Best nights for Fragata: Tuesday and Sunday.

I agree mostly with this approach, but with the caveat that it's not for everyone. i negotiate high-dollar deals for a living, and have done so for over 25 years at this point, so more than 1/2 of my life has been spent studying the other side of the bargaining table for the best win-win and best goods for the best value. It takes a bundle of things to make that work: usually, if the parties get along, it's better (that could be mutual physical attraction, sexual chemistry or just the personalities clicking), or if it is unilateral (which is often more than not), making the other party think that they are getting more than their equal value (even if you were prepared to shell out more). I would agree that nickeling and diming a garoto for a difference in payment for services that basically amounts to only $5-$6 USD, to me, is absurd -- and would probably ruin the experience. Most people are not going to be as experienced in the art of negotiation as I or Tomcal, though -- and a language barrier might make that task seem more daunting of an effort when you are not actually there to experience it. However, I am here to tell you that, once you are there, inside the sauna, it's really not all that challenging. You're not going to be wholesale ripped off in the sauna by garotos. They are mostly friendly, approachable and there to make money -- and if there is a communication gap between you two, trust me -- when it comes to the almighty dollar, they will help you come to an agreement with them or move on if they cannot. I am pretty well-traveled and experienced in this scene in multiple countries. I have often invited some travel buddies who are less experienced (but not shy). All of them were quick learners at the saunas.

Is that for 24 hour garoto services AND English-speaking translator services, all at once? Or just for one or the other?

The gay saunas and clubs weren't even shut down during the military dictatorship period that ended in 1985. I wouldn't be that overly concerned about a religious mayor.

The days are not numbered. Already asked and answered. Your next once-a-decade trip to Rio in 2017 is safe.

I remember Brazilian skeletal guy. Messed with him once or twice. He was just okay to me. Rounds, the upscale hustler joint, had some hot pieces. A few aspiring actors, models and competitive bodybuilders. One guy modeled for Calvin Klein. Another ended up in a few independent mainstream movies. One guy was a Broadway dancer.

You misunderstood me. That's not the insulting part. What is patronizing and insulting to someone's intelligence, however, is not to admit the preference, but instead to falsely state that the reason there would be an abundance of white guys at the Gaiety was because they got tipped more, so the other kinds of guys just didn't show up. I hope you can discern the difference. In any event, The Gaiety, Rounds, Stella's, Show Palace and Cats are dead and gone. Long live 117, Lagoa, Meio Mundo, Fragata and the rest.

I will gladly take ownership that I didn't go to The Gaiety at its bitter end. Its increasingly sterile environment bored me in its last few years. But the reason why the dancers / hustlers there were mostly white had far more to do with the tastes of its overwhelmingly white clients and the management, and not who would potentially get more tips. Please don't misattribute your personal racial or ethnic preferences to some mislabeled standard of quality. Just acknowledge that you prefer white guys and move on. Don't make rationalizations. It's a bit patronizing and insulting.

Thanks for posting that book. I will purchase it on Amazon or eBay. It looks like a great historical read.

Of course there was sex going on in the back! It just stopped in later years, however. Also, the Howard Johnson building was sold just like the building that housed The Shoe Pslsce and the building that housed Cats were sold. They were politically targeted for sale as part of the Times Square renovation and rezoning of adult businesses. Finally, yes there were a handful of muscular guys with the twinkier ones, but it was always a variety. You re right about one thing: the guys were mostly to almost exclusively white (which was annoyingly unrepresentative or the diversity of New York City). But if you prefer white bread, that's not something that would ping your radar. i suppose you take issue with the term "hustler", as you find it demeaning or referring only to street guys or perhaps only men of color? I use the term to be all-encompassing, to include men who are tricking for dollars, no matter the venue. That included your beloved $15 (I don't know where you got $25 entry fee from) The Gaiety.

No, they were hustlers. You might not like the name "hustler", maybe you prefer something like "paid companion", "private shows", "rentboy" or "escort", but that's what they were. They hooked up with clients for money in between sets away from the venue and after the shows. Every one of them. And there were quite a number of muscle jocks and bodybuilders who would perform there. Personally, I prefer places like 117 and Lagoa, and even Rounds, to The Gaiety, but I would rather have it there in NYC as an option than not. Now, there's nothing. And you can thank Giuliani for the re-zoning.

From an economic standpoint, Rio can probably maintain two distinctly different rentboy saunas: one for regular looking, Twinkier, more attainable guys and another for higher-end, supermodel-y, less attainable guys. The problem with a place like Point 202, especially in a struggling economy, is that, in the face of the more successful 117, it could not market itself as anything distinctive. There simply aren't enough paying customers to go around. 117 established itself as the brand for muscular supermodel garotos, and 202 was left with trying to brand and re-brand itself. Those of us with marketing backgrounds and MBAs may find this kind of shop talk more interesting, but I find the writing of the rentboy sauna obituaries a bit premature. I doubt the days of 6 rentboy saunas will be returning (arguably, that was market oversaturation, and their closings could simply have been market correction), but it's not economically unreasonable to think that the metro area of Rio can keep supporting two different rent boys in two different parts of town with two very different demographics. The same for São Paulo, Salvador and Recife. NOTE: the world-famous straight brothels / saunas / spas in Rio, like Centaurus and Termas Monte Carlo, have been going throwing economic growing / shrinking pains as well.

I started working on Wall Street in 1992. Cats, The Gaiety, Stella's and the Show Palace in Times Square, and Rounds and the Townhouse on the UES were the places for hustlers. Some places in the Village were also around, but the names escape me. Giuliani got into office in January 1994 and almost immediately, Rounds (which was the gold standard for hustlers and escorts) was shut down. By the end of 94, Cats was done. Show Palace was shuttered towards the end of 1995. Stella's and Gaiety held in there until the end of Giuliani's reign of terror, but the first term of the Bloomberg administtatioj finished the job of Disney-fying all of Times Square, and un-gaying The West Village.

I can't speak for Numbers in LA, but I definitely know about The Gaiety, Stella's, Cats, Rounds and the hustler bars of yore in NYC. The internet didn't shut them down. The policies of Mayor Rudy Giuliani did.

Wow. She's stunning! What a great businesswoman, too.

If you're into white or white-looking guys, Porto Alegre is going to have far more of them, since it's in the Southern region, where the Germans, Italians and Polish ended up.

Having a gun and drawing one are two different things. Police carry guns visibly all the time.

They would've been vilified, treated like animals. Calls for them to be held in American jails would've been loud as church bells. Their reputations, as well as that of the country they represent, would've been dragged across the mud. Endless discussions about how "those kinds of people" behave like animals, etc.

This was no robbery. If it were a robbery, the 4 entitled white American pricks wouldn't have gotten back to the Olympic Village with their smartphones, their watches, their jewelry and enough money to take a cab back, then grinning like Cheshire cats and patting each other on the backs like they got away with some caper when they returned. The film footage doesn't lie. Furthermore, the independent eyewitness who acted as the translator during the incident stated that there was no gun drawn on the swimmers, and that the swimmers were the ones who begged for the gas station workers not to call the police (for fear that they would certainly get into trouble): http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ryan-lochte-robbery-story-translator-opens-up-brazil-incident/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab7e&linkId=27866056

So, it looks like I was right. The US swimmers made up the story about being stopped in their taxi and robbed at gunpoint by fake police. Turns out that the privileged entitled "ugly American" pricks (led by 32-year-old Ryan Lochte, who already had a reputation for being a knucklehead) got into a fight and damaged a gas station bathroom door, paid cash for the damage and fled the scene of the crime before the Brazilian police could arrive. It wasn't hookers, but it was worse because these are actual crimes in Brazil. "The entire episode, Winter said, “has tapped into one of Brazilians’ biggest pet peeves — gringos who treat their country like a third-rate spring break destination where you can lie to the cops and get away with it.” " http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/19/sports/olympics/police-say-ryan-lochte-lied-about-gunpoint-assault.html

Could it be that the drunken entitled lads spent all their money on hookers at a brothel, missed Olympic Village curfew, and needed to make up a story that just so happened to defame an entire nation? "The men, who said they were intoxicated upon leaving the party, said they could not remember the color of the taxi they took, or where exactly the assault took place. Investigators have been unable to find the taxi driver who delivered the swimmers back to the Olympic Village." http://nyti.ms/2bcT0gi

The salient part of the story right here. Investigative tip: find the cab driver. Protip for newbies: hire a driver for your stay. "The American swimmers robbed on Sunday were leaving a party at Club France, the French hospitality house established during the Rio Games in the upscale Lagoa neighborhood, the U.S. Olympics spokesman said." I read in another article that the athletes are told not to leave Olympic Village. BTW, Olympic Village is in Barra Da Tijuca which is a 30 minute drive from the Lagoa / Copacabana / Ipanema neighborhoods in Zona Sul. So, if they took a cab there, unless they knew the driver, they hopped in a car with an unknown driver -- who might be in the area looking for unsuspecting "rich" foreigners there for the Olympics, and would just so happen to drive them into a trap.

So now you finally reveal your REAL issue with Rio. The kinds of men you prefer aren't readily available to you. So you can stop with the preachy tone, Judge Judy McJudgerson.