SolaceSoul

I was in São Paulo on business, so to see for myself, I went to the new Espaço Lagoa on Wednesday, Friday and Saturday. Here are my personal results and observations: Lagoa on Wednesday: I arrived at Lagoa about 5:45pm. It was raining very badly. The first thing I noticed was that the place looks like every other smaller sauna now. — nothing special or majestic like the previous Lagoa, which was like walking into a dreamscape. The long tunnel ramp down to the entrance is very strange, indeed. The owner really should find a better use of that space. Also, the stairwells on each side, particularly the one that is more like a down ramp, do seem very clumsy as take quite a bit of getting used to. The other stairway, the normal one, seemed fine to me, honestly. It really was no worse than the ones at 117 or 202. But those ramp stairs are just really strange and clumsy — and parts are dangerous because there is no reflective or bright lighting on the dark stairs to let a user know where the stairs end and where the ramp begins. I suppose the ramps are one way to make the sauna “wheelchair accessible” — but not if there is a strange combination of stairs and ramp. As to the rest of the space, it seems even smaller than Point 202. I would say it is even smaller than Sauna Fox in Salvador. I think Rodolfo did as well as he could with the space that he was provided here — but the problem is that this is not a very good space for a sauna in comparison to the previous one. That’s a tall order, admittedly, as the previous space was phenomenal. The main social space — with the bar and the tables and the stage — also overlook the showers. The showers are nice and new — but is a much smaller space now (the sauna / jacuzzi doors are packed into this space and it is hard to navigate when someone else is showering). But I can see here how Rodolfo tried his level best to recreate the same experience from the original Lagoa, but in a much smaller space. The bar area is very reminiscent of the one at 202, or the indoor one at 117 — a cramped space but it is functional. The seating area seemed fine to me. Honestly, I was there for several hours and I never saw — as was earlier reported — how it was so crowded that people could not move or navigate around the area. It never once became that crowded. I always had a table to myself and there were always seats at the bar. Also, and this is even more important, the ratio of garotos to clients was WAY too small! I estimate that there was about 1 garoto for every 1 client there! That is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion! There should be WAY more garotos than clients. For the best “fantasy” experience, there should be about 3 or 4 garotos for every client. Clients want to feel like they can have their pick of garotos — not the other way around! That was about the quantity. Now, for the quality. Or rather, the lack thereof! On Wednesday, the quality of garotos was VERY disappointing. In the past, even as recent as last November, I could go to the old Lagoa, and expect to see close to a DOZEN garotos who were fantasy types for me. On its WORST days, I would see 2-3 garotos at the old Lagoa that I would like to have a programa with. I never had to wait hours for ONE garoto to arrive that I would love to spend time with. Well, Wednesday night, there were ZERO (until the very end... about him later). The garotos there Wednesday night were of smaller, slender, mostly average builds, and the one or two who did have defined or muscular type builds were not even in the same league as what you could easily find at 117 (or even 202) on their best nights lately. So, I realize this is only judging from one night’s visit, but the quality of garotos at the new Lagoa has definitely diminished from before. I do understand that the old Lagoa had already been declining in its garoto quality from its previous heyday, so perhaps this is just a logical extension. But I do not buy Rodolfo’s lame excuse about trying to reduce overcrowding by limiting it to certain kinds of garotos. Because (1) there should always be at least 3 times as many working boys as there are clients, and Wednesday night, the ratio was close to 1:1, and (2) the sauna was not so crowded that people could not move or navigate through. The garotos at a high-end sauna like Lagoa or 117 should ALWAYS look better than the garotos at Fragata, Bar Fama or off the street or Grindr — and Wednesday night, a previous high point night for Lagoa, for the most part, they did not. Now, after having a caipirinha and being seated at a prominent table for quite some time (maybe about an hour or so), I was approached by about 4 boys during that time. Two were cute but not my type — slender, “fit” builds, more like aspiring soccer, swimmer or tennis player builds (what I call typical “disco bodies”). I had brief conversations with them to be polite, but I wasn’t going to spend my money on any of them. During these conversations, I mentioned to each garoto that I preferred the old Lagoa to this one, and that I was not happy with the choices in garotos at this one. They all responded to me that every client that they talk to agrees with me, that everyone liked the old sauna better. One garoto informed me that most or all of these garotos are “new meat” and they did not work at the old sauna. I can verify that I did not see one garoto on Wednesday night that I recognized from the old Lagoa. I was very disappointed, because there were some old garoto faces and bodies that I wanted to see. One garoto even agreed with me that the boys there at the new Lagoa now look the same as they do at Fragata! So, if you like the type at Fragata and think that’s your fantasy type or you’d be happy paying for that, then you will also like this new version of Lagoa on a Wednesday night. Maybe you do, and that’s fine for you. I just happen not to — AT ALL. During the time I was speaking to one garoto at my table, another garoto approached me. He was a garoto from Salvador that I met a few years ago when I was there. At that point of my visit there, he was the best-looking, most appealing one at Lagoa, but as he was never even one of my top favorites in Salvador — he was just “meh!” to me — that did not bode very well for this visit. I was just getting ready to leave Lagoa out of pure boredom and frustration, when I saw a garoto in a towel that I had never seen before who was like a Brazilian Greek God walk through the bar. I immediately got up and followed him to the banheiro. We talked and agreed to have a programa in 10 minutes. We went up to the suite floor — interesting, because it now has its own check-in concierge on that floor, which I think is a great plus, considering all the flights of stairs to get to the main check-in — and had a great session for 55 minutes. The new rooms are nice — yes, they are. After I paid the garoto and returned the room key, I went to the bar for a bottled water to refresh myself, and he got dressed and then sat at a table with an older (I assume Brazilian) client. I assume that is who he came to Lagoa to see. They later left together. I got dressed at about 8 pm, feeling tired and went back to the hotel, after ordering take out from down the street. My initial impression from only a Wednesday visit was that so far, the new Lagoa is much worse than the old one, and is definitely NOT better than Club 117 or Point 202 in Rio. My thoughts on visiting what once used to be THE premier sauna in the Western Hemisphere is that I should not have to go to Lagoa and only see one garoto that I prefer, and that is only after waiting 90 minutes for a garoto that is my type to appear! But I will say that the previous claims here of it being so ridiculously packed with garotos that clients could not move or sit were just ridiculous. And possibly, the rain that night could’ve played a factor in the low quality of garotos there. So, I did return to Lagoa on Friday and Saturday to get a more complete view and review and to do a comparison on other days later in the week. Lagoa on Friday: I arrived about 4:45 pm. This night was much better than Wednesday. Perhaps the rain storm on Wednesday was the main factor? Anyway, by 6 pm, it was very crowded, but I would still NOT describe it as “cramped” or “overcrowded”, like some did previously at this board. Once you figure out the frustrating maze of the stairs, the space is manageable and pretty nice (and the owner really does need to put reflective tape on some of those stairs, because they are hard to see — and I and one other client almost tripped and fell down those stairs). Now, is it as nice as the old Lagoa? Of course not! But I do think he did well with the limited space that he was given — with a few improvements that would still need to be done in order to make it more user-friendly. Friday night, I ventured to the top floor (I think it’s the 4th floor), where the 2nd bar / seating area, gym, video room and the outdoor smoking section are. This floor has more space for clients and garotos to interact and relax. It’s not as loud or as compact as the main social space on the 2nd floor. Maybe some elderly, overweight, or just cardio-averse clients won’t bother to venture up to this top floor, due to it being up three whole flights of stairs. But the space is there. Now, about trying to find garotos due to the confusing maze of stairs — I didn’t find it all that hard. Of course, I am in good shape and I am not averse to walking up and down a lot of stairs — and make no mistake, there are a lot of stairs here, like an old New York City walk-up! Many clients are not like this, though. Some will probably just go to the second floor (main room) and chill / remain there until when or if it’s time for them to go to the third floor (suite / cabine floor) for a programa. I could definitely see elderly, weight-challenged or disabled clients having navigation issues at the new Lagoa. Now, for the most important part. About the garotos... Friday, there was a better selection than Wednesday. IF Rodolfo was thinking of instituting a hard age restriction, then I did not see it, because some of the garotos over 30 that I remember and liked from before were present, and I know they are over 30 (but they are very muscular and masculine and well-endowed, so maybe these are a part of Rodolfo’s “exceptions”). I saw 5-7 garotos that were my physical type, and I already knew 5 of them. I had 3 programas on Friday, and only 1 was with a new garoto (this programa turned out to be a big disappointment — I will NOT ever repeat with him). Every other garoto that I saw that was my type was someone that I either had already met at Lagoa before or at another sauna in another city. Three programas was a lot for me and definitely over my self-imposed daily budget, so I had to stop after my third (and first ejaculation) for this night. And then I went back to the hotel. I was hoping to see more “new meat”, but considering that I met the Brazilian Greek God on Wednesday (he was there again on Friday and one of my 3 programas — he mostly sat at a table with two older Brazilian queens — one that proudly wears a towel on his head and around his torso just like a woman would at a sauna — when he is not doing a programa), and I met the new garoto (that was a disappointing programa and I will not repeat), I suppose I did meet at least one new garoto that I liked each day thus far. I don’t think those numbers compare well at all to the old Lagoa from 4-5 years ago, but they seem to be on par with my trip to Lagoa from last year. Regarding other garotos (the ones that are not my type), I did notice a trend of more twinky-fied garotos — who for some odd reason, always want to approach me, because I do my absolute best not to even give them any attention or eye contact at all. I don’t get at all why Lagoa is featuring twinks when that is the purview of Fragata. Not that I was focusing on it, but I did not notice the smaller twinkish types being hired much at all by clients, so I don’t agree that most clients go there for that type. Maybe there are a few who do regularly hire them, but they seem to be only a few — a minority, but perhaps a reliable minority. (I also couldn’t help but notice a group of very loud Americans, speaking loudly and obnoxiously in conversation at the bar area. I really do hate that. They give us all a bad name, IMO. Leave your Florida trash in Florida. No one is impressed.) Overall, on Friday, I had a good time at Lagoa (enough of a good time to stay in my hotel room and sleep on a Friday night afterwards!). This night was the closest in reminiscence to the old Lagoa during its prime from 5 or so years ago — although it still did not come close to that. But another thing about the new Lagoa I could not help but notice on Friday: The ratio of garotos-to-clients on Friday was ridiculously low! I would estimate that there was less than 1 working boy for every 1 client. This is absolutely outrageous. As I mentioned before, most of us clients go to pay saunas for garotos de programa and to have a selection of them. There should be at least 3 garotos per client. It should not be a place where clients have to compete for the attention and affection of garotos, but the other way around! If Rodolfo thinks a pay sauna can continue to be financially successful without having lots of great-looking garotos at the disposal for every client, then IMO, he is going to learn a hard valuable financial lesson. There is much more physical room and space for more garotos in there. IF he is concerned about restricting garotos due to space, then that concern seems highly unwarranted to me. The place needs more garotos! A 1:1 garoto-to-client ratio is unacceptable! Lagoa on Saturday night: It was just about as good/bad/meh as it was on Wednesday. So, in my opinion, not very good and not good enough. One of my steady favorites Who was visiting from another city was there again Saturday, like he was on Friday. So I decided to have a programa with him at the sauna and then extend it to an overnight. That was my send-off back from São Paulo as my final night there. But as I stated, Lagoa was not as good tonight as it was on Friday. When I was leaving (I had an hour at the sauna with this above-mentioned garoto), the gogo dancer show hosted by the drag queen was on and the main room was crowded. However, I saw no other garotos that appealed to me. The only two I saw all Saturday night were the one I had the hour programa with, and the one I had a programa with on the previous night — nothing new or different from either Wednesday or Friday was there. But here’s something again to note about the new Lagoa: The ratio of garotos to clients in the crowd on Saturday was even less than it was on the previous night! My estimate is that there were actually two clients for every garoto! That is completely unacceptable. I know I am not alone in this line of thinking, but I go to payboy saunas to see, mix and mingle with physically stunning, sexually virile and available garotos. I do NOT go to payboy saunas to see mostly pasty, flabby, balding, bellied, hairy-backed, naked old white dudes! If I wanted just to socialize and chuckle it up with a bunch of hairy bears with no to little availability of hot physical specimen, then there are plenty of gay bars for that and also saunas, bathhouses and sex clubs where men like that are readily available (to each other) for FREE! No, we go to pay saunas for the availability of men that otherwise may not be easily attainable— and to have plenty of choices of them. Two clients for every garoto? GTFOH with that bullshit! There should be a minimum of three garotos per client.

I twice took an Air Canada flight to São Paulo that connected in Toronto. The appeal was the price. On the flight to SP, in November, there was a snow storm and all flights were cancelled. I was put up in a hotel for the night and left the same time next day. Others were bitching about the delay (as if they could leave in the middle of a snowstorm), but I was perfectly fine with it because I had 5 1/2 weeks of time left in Brazil. In other words, you’re not the only one whose had delays or cancellations on Air Canada going to Brazil. My record is 50/50.

I could do without the club music and diva torch songs. As talented as she was, I think I have heard enough of Whitney Houston’s Greatest Hits at Point 202 to last me three lifetimes. I prefer the ambience and different vibes that I can get in various rooms and corners at 117 — where the drag and diva music doesn’t follow you everywhere. And if the garotos are the hottest, the sauna always wins.

I wouldn’t call Point 202 the best even in Rio, but it’s running a good second. And IMO, better than the new Lagoa. Junior does deserve his props.

I didn’t have those problems with him.

I didn’t seem to have that problem at all with Gabriel recently. I guess that’s another one of those “your mileage may vary” situations.

Acyr has been involved in three recently failed or failing saunas. No matter the reason, MM has shuttered. Manhattan Rios was a complete bomb. Lions is on life support. You may think he’s a great guy to hang out with, but I would take his advice on a sauna business about as quickly as I’d trust Trump to run a casino.

As I already mentioned above, Centaurus, which is the premier heterosexual sauna (whorehouse) for men in Rio, like it’s gay men counterpart 117 (and what used to be its gay men counterpart Lagoa), is doing gangbusters business and is bursting at the seams. The reason is that Centaurus stays to its brand of exclusivity: the women who work there are beyond beautiful, and are seemingly physically unattainable in both body and face. Men don’t swarm there in droves just to fuck average looking girls — they expect the cream of the crop. The straight “saunas” that are closing shop feature the average girls.

Yes. A simple rule of commerce which seems to have already put all of the twink- / “boy-next-door”- oriented saunas out of business in Brazil!

The comment about being barely legal boys was targeted toward the posters here who have that predilection (what could be a posting majority at the board, but is not necessarily even close to a majority of paying sauna clients) — not the age restriction. Try to keep up.

Your assumption that the kinds of garotos that you like are the same type that most well-paying clients visit saunas to spend money on is simply just wildly off the mark. Just as Twitter activity is not very reflective of real life, the avid BoyToy posters who gush over barely legal skinny twinks and think that anything that doesn’t resemble that look is “old” or “bad looking” are also NOT reflective of the bread and butter of the most successful saunas in existence. 117 is now the premier pay sauna in Brazil because it steadily and reliably features masculine, well-built MEN — not average, run of the mill Joes off the street or twinkie boys that look barely legal — the type honestly, you can find at any bar bar in Anytown, North America on a Friday night. It’s known for garotos that are masculine, well built, nicely endowed, and look like they came off the latest Calvin Klein ad — and those are always the busiest garotos in the sauna. On any given day, the ones that you describe as your preferred type are much less likely to be booked, with their backs to the wall trolling for clients (and they’re also, by no coincidence, less expensive). Lagoa made its name the very same way, if not more so than 117 did. Sauna Thermas in Barcelona, the very same. Point 202 in its most heyday and the old Rogers — the very same. It’s by no coincidence that the saunas that feature the barely legal, average Joes with common, regular builds and features are also the saunas that are no longer in business, or are on their last leg. On the hétero side, Centaurus is known worldwide for its most beautiful women with outstanding bodies. Straight men flock there, not to see the seemingly physically unattainable, not to see the kind of little girl that they can see around the block. And judging a success by its first few days of business would be unwise. Not to suggest that Lagoa will be closing shop sometime soon like another twink farm / average boy sauna, Meio Mundo did, and soon to be Fragata will — because right now, Lagoa is the only game in town. But there are arguably more well-paying clients that will dislike the restrictions being placed than ones like you that consider them just dandy for your tastes.

On Wednesday night, the same friend of a friend from before who is a regular at Lagoa went back to the new Espaço Lagoa. While he was talking with Rodolfo about the new restriction of garotos 30 years old or over, Rodolfo also said that he has now made an exception to this rule for "old" garotos that he personally knew and who were still, in his view, “good-looking” — provided that they are “hugely hung”. Anyone who is familiar enough with Rodolfo can attest that with this new restrictions, there will only be a few garotos that will fit into his “exceptions” category. Then, Rodolfo proceeded to tell my friend’s friend that his (Rodolfo’s) priority is to solve the overcrowding of the small sauna. Therefore, he has yet another genius, Brainiac restriction. His new restriction: any very young garoto that does not look or act masculine cannot work at the new Espaço Lagoa sauna. If the garoto appears to be even slightly effeminate, they are evicted. Once again, like “good looking” and “old”, “masculine” and “feminine” appearing will be at the sole discretion of the business and marketing genius of Rodolfo. Thus, there are now two groups that are not allowed to work at the new, smaller Espaço Lagoa sauna: (1) garotos who are very young and effeminate or not masculine enough (according to Rodolfo), and (2) garotos who are 30 years of age and more — unless they are still “good-looking”, according only to Rodolfo, and only if he previously knew them, and he can confirm that they have very big dicks. Is he running a client-driven business, or his personal playground?

There’s a saying: “when you’re in a hole, stop digging.”

File this one under: “self-serving statements”!

Then, you think wrong. “Interest in” and “peak physical athletic development” are two different things. The very thought that there are men already at or near retirement age who are actually defending this ludicrous age restriction, and equating over 30 with “old” and “bad looking”, is quite disturbing, to say the least. But I can’t say that I am surprised at what lurks in this forum.

The bad reports on the new Espaço Lagoa just keep coming. A friend of a very close friend of mine went to the new Espaço Lagoa again last night. While there, he said he was again not comfortable with the multi-level sauna, the small crowded spaces, and the incessant stairs. He also commented on the porn room. He said this room can only hold about six people. But wait! It gets even worse! Then, he said that Rodolfo told him that he had a “solution” to the crowding of the new, smaller Lagoa. Rodolfo’s Brainiac business solution is that he is now prohibiting all garotos 30 years old and above from working at Espaço Lagoa. Needless to say, this friend of a friend — who prefers more masculine garotos with athletic builds — was shocked and very disappointed at Rodolfo's decision. I and most of the clients I associate with think that this age restriction is absolutely ridiculous, and that it will be the death knell of what was once a premier, if not the premier, sauna. Especially for us clients that exclusively want masculine and muscular garotos, our needs and interests would no longer be met at this new Lagoa For example, most competitive athletic physiques — the type that I would often find a few years ago at the old Lagoa — don’t peak until after 30! Most of the muscular, built, masculine garotos that I met there were over 30, or very close to it. Rodolfo seems to want only twinks and the clients who want them. If that’s the case, then Lagoa has immediately lost its reputation as a sauna with top-shelf garotos. He seems to be making quite a number of poor business decisions with this sauna as of late. Hopefully, someone will talk some sense into him about this stupid “no garotos over 30” age restriction, before it’s too late.

The sad irony is the kind of person that would attempt something like this with little to no experience or skill set is the same kind of poster who will later come here to post about how he was a “victim” of violence in a “homophobic” country where he was “targeted”.

Ok, then bless his heart. And bless your heart for doubting even for one nanosecond that this situation with the twentysomething brasileiro and your sexagenarian Brit friend is any more than it actually is.

Oh, bless your heart.

The saunas with the working guys will not care much if the client is 21 or 91. It’s all about the money and your ability to come to an agreement with your worker of choice. However, at saunas without payboys — where patrons play with each other and select their playmates by physical not monetary attraction — age, looks, build and other physical attributes are kings.

Jesus Fucking Christ. Comments at the board like this are not only just incredibly racist, but also very self-serving. It presumes that the sex tourist is doing the local Latino a sexual favor because the Latino is the one who wants the sex, not the tourist — when the harsh truth is the local is interested in the economic benefit, not the sexual aspect of it.

How sad that you have to use an alternate account just to pretend you have fans. Nice try, Jan.

Too bad you were never taught not to contribute to a thread if you have no updated information.

This homen is MUCH older, and more common at the Brazilian saunas.

A reliable source close to Fragata mentioned that the location will shutter its doors as a sauna by February 1 or earlier.