SolaceSoul

Black African immigrants and Arab / Middle Eastern immigrants get treated poorly in many parts of Europe (France, Italy, Spain, especially). Black Americans, at least once it’s known thry are black Americans, receive much better treatment. Black Africans are treated there in Europe like Black Americans (and Haitians) are treated here in the USA. I’m not suggesting that racism against black people doesn’t exist in Europe — that would be a stupid assertion — but it manifests itself much differently there for black Americans than it does here in the USA — where it’s racism on steroids, and everyone has a gun. Well, Principal Joe Clark is dead. He died at the end of 2020. But behind the mystique of his book and movie, he’d always been a super staunch conservative, politically and religiously. I’m not surprised at all that he would express these views to people he had just met on a plane.

I cannot be responsible for how you may receive or process information. a lesson I learned years ago., when I stopped dating women. Facts over feelings. I didn’t realize that this was even a discussion about WHY we like or don’t like certain kinds of guys. But what you said above is all just a matter of personal perception. I don’t see them the way you described them at all, I am “friendly” with a lot of them and their personalities vary just like in any other group of people. That to me is just a stereotype or gross overgeneralization, like “all fat girls are funny”. But a little cockiness in a guy doesn’t faze me much, anyway. One of my travel partners likes them slim and short (with big dicks), and he says one of the turn-ons is they make up for their size and stature by being cocky and super forward and aggressive — whereas when they approach me, I merely find their behavior to be annoying. So, like I said above, it’s all just a matter of perception (we tend to excuse or find attractive the same negative behaviors from the people we like — human nature). This should be a Ted Talk!

Absolutely. black Americans are treated like stars on those continents. I travel to Europe much more than Asia, but my experiences and the experiences of my fellow black American travelers in Europe and Asia are similar in that regard.

Oh, absolutely! And that’s a whole separate, lengthy conversation (that me and my fellow Black / Latine travelers and expats often have). The “advantage”, though, that I was referring to earlier comes with the passport privilege of being black or brown AND American or European. Look, in Rio, I always stay in Ipanema, Leblon, Lagoa or the “Copanema” end of Copacabana closest to Arpoador— the “toniest” areas of Zona Sul — and I physically look like and often get confused for a Baiano, so I often initially get the same treatment that your Brazilian friend did at restaurants and stores. But that ALL changes as soon as I open my mouth and purposely bring out my gringo! One major reason many black Americans enjoy travel abroad and/or become expats is that abroad, we get the “white privilege” with our blue passports (yes, and often dollars) that frankly, isn’t afforded to us in the USA. And the Dominican Republic. I have stories. Boy, do I have stories! Yes, but this is a bit defensive and glosses over the point of my original post. It wasn’t meant to be a judgment about clients’ tastes in men, like saying “my type is better than yours!” It was a factual observation about pricing schemes. The type you prefer are generally going to be in a certain price range (and for those who are looking to save a few dollars, that should be a good thing, right?). The type I mentioned above — the muscle gods, the “Barbies”, if you will (I loathe that term, can they at least be Kens?) — tend to be the ones who ask for (and get) higher prices. It doesn’t mean they are more attractive or better — it just is what it is. I don’t mention names here, because the walls have eyes, and this stuff posted online does get back to the workers, and these relationships are built on trust (and money, too). But I could literally tell you who thr “Kings of 117” and the “Kings of 202” (to a lesser degree, Lagoa) currently are and who they were in the last decade. I know what they charge and what the former kings used to charge when they were on top. That being said, my friends that I semi-often travel with or who come to visit me when I’m there are not really into my type. I’m usually the odd man out. We all like different things. So I get what you’re saying about beauty and the beholder. But that’s also another way I know pricing schemes of different kinds of garotos. Their guys are almost always currently in that $100 - $150 reais range at saunas and never above it.

Do you keep that same energy when you go to Europe? Because RentMen (ad) prices in Europe are the same or more in most popular areas of Europe as they are in the USA.

Of course they are, because we are clearly not into the same kinds of garotos. The ones you are raving about here (even as examples) are, in general, the physical type that command average prices, not prices above the margins. As I stated several times before already, I said certain kinds of sauna garotos will command a higher price — and I was specifically referring to *some” of the muscle gods. They are asking for (and getting) $200R (NOT $200 — which is obviously a different currency altogether) per programa at the saunas in Rio and São Psulo — whether you like it or not. I’m not aware of any average build, slim build or twink garotos asking and/or getting that price of 200 reais at saunas (but admittedly, they have never really been on my radar, so there could be a few). Unless you just joined the world of international male whoremongering in the last year or so (I’ll limit this to LATAM and Africa, I cannot speak for Asia, anf Europe pricing and economy is mostly similar to that of USA / Canada), your experience (or rather, lack thereof) in this regard would be HIGHLY unusual if you communicate with the workers once you’re back home. This kind of initiation into “the club” normally occurs very quickly with gringos. Fortunately, for you, every garoto isn’t charging, nor can every one of them command even if they asked, 200 reais at the saunas. So, you’re safe. To be clear, it’s R$200, not $200. That’s not a quibble but there’s a huge monetary difference between 200 US dollars and 200 Brazilian reais, like close to 160 US dollars of a difference. Your recalcitrance on this subject seems almost as if you believe it’s dollars, not reais, that we are discussing here. And like I said above, you’re most likely not going to encounter the few who are asking for that amount if those models that you posted are the type you’re pursuing. That’s not shade or a diss, it just is what it is. You have just had two long-time, regular, frequent, recently visiting Brazil posters (myself and the one who is far more revered here, @Tomcal) confirm for you that, yes, certain muscle boys / gogo boys ARE commanding 200 reais for sauna programas, and yet you STILL deny it is happening. This is like a really bad comedy! I see this posted here and on other similar boards (gay AND straight), and it doesn’t hold up well under scrutiny. This is usually the argument of a cheapskate who wants cheap sex tourism in underdeveloped markets and who bristles at the thought of paying an extra $9 USD for sexual interaction with an actual living, breathing human body. First of all, the workers are independent capitalists, they set their own prices individually and they will make what they can command on the market. If a less desirable guy asks for a larger amount and keeps getting turned down, eventually he will reduce his price to what the market will bear, or he will go home penniless. If a highly desired guy sees that clients (and yes, local clients, too!) are gladly willing to pay at 150 reais and there’s a line waiting for him in the hall, he might try to up the ante by pushing it to 200 reais. And if he can get it? God bless him and God bless capitalism! He might also decide to have a two-tier pricing system, one for locals and one for tourists— or a two-tier system for Brazilians and gringos. Or old guys and young dudes. Or fat clients and fit ones. His body, his choice. Your wallet, your choice. If you don’t want to pay the price, move on to the next one. If he makes enough off his rate, God bless him. If he doesn’t, he might lower it to average market prices or decide to get out of saunas altogether. But there aren’t really many locals whining about tourists fucking up their prices — if anything, I hear the reverse, more tourist clients complaining that they aren’t getting cheaper local rates! (And if you think there isn’t an unofficial two-tier pricing system for gringos, try renting an apartment in Rio or São Paulo sounding and looking like a gringo. Oh, the advantages of being an Afro-Latino who is fluent in Portuguese…RsRsRs). And, like @axiom2001 mentioned above, prices don’t always stay the same. It was 50 reais when he visited Rio over 15 years ago. The prices were around 100 reais in Rio and São Paulo and 80 reais in Salvador and Recife when I first started going to Brazil 11 years ago. Some clients bitched then and some clients still bitch now. But prices of goods and other services in Brazil keep rising almost exponentially. You want the sex workers to keep living like it’s 1999? Well, Prince is dead, and so are those prices. Well, you DID say they are Brazilian. Seriously, there are some Brazilians who are regularly at Thermas who used to work at Brazilian saunas and are now in BCN permanently. A few are more my physical type and based on your posts, probably not your speed. I can guarantee you if and when they return to Brazilian saunas on family visits, they are charging the rates that you are gasping over. (I am purposely not mentioning names here.) Of course, I am absolutely judging them on appearance! Only a small minority of sauna clients care about a garoto’s social media following and how they monetize their bases. The overwhelming majority of clients are about the visual and what a garoto looks like physically in person. This board does serve a purpose, but it is not (or the majority of regular posters are not) really representative of most clients. (If one only knew the scene from this board, one might think that the most desired garotos at saunas were 20 year old hairless twinks.) That being said, I repeat like a broken record — their physical type was NOT the type I mentioned when I said “SOME muscle boys in Rio and São Paulo saunas are asking for and getting 200 reais for a 30 minute sauna programa.” Why is that so difficult to process? Disregarding the amount of money earned at saunas, there are other reasons some Brazilians might prefer to live / work in Spain / Europe over Brazil. I personally love Brazil in spite of all of its quirks and idiosyncrasies, but a number of Brazilians are itching to get out — especially now while the economy is in the toilet and there’s lots of political uncertainty. I’m Afro-Latino. I’m well aware of the weight of the word. That’s why it was placed in quotes. But thanks for the whitesplaining.

Not to mention that inflation in Brazil is freakin’ through the roof. The price of goods there is outrageous compared to wages (in BRL). https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/brazil-annual-inflation-rises-5-year-high-84-june-2021-07-08/

This isn’t what I was “told”. This is what I know they are currently charging. At this point. I’m here more than I’m not. I know the players and I know what they charge. I’m not getting my information from internet message boards or whisper campaigns. And the guys you posted examples of as your perfect type wouldn’t really be the type I was describing as commanding 150 - 200 reais per sauna programa, so you probably have nothing to worry about, anyway. Those guys are safely ensconced in the 100 - 150 reais range. But believe what you will. I’m not going to go back and forth with you about something as insignificant as a difference of basically $12 USD. Garotos have been hitting up clients (esp. gringo tourist clients) for money. claiming that work is slow WAY before COVID. This is nothing new. Several of the Brazilians I know who like to go to BCN DO make more money there than they do in Brazil. A large factor in that is they are “new” or “exotic” in BCN, whereas in Brazil, there are many more guys who look like them — thus they turn more tricks in BCN. 50 EUR is only slightly over 300 reais. They do more volume work and make more (plus ads), or they can do slightly less work and still make about the same. It’s also the cachet of working / visiting / living in Europe that appeals to a lot of them. We aren’t talking about that significant a difference in take home pay. Also, as you suggested in your post, most often they find ways for others to pay for their trips to Europe (clients, sugars, donations).

Well, you DID say he’s Brazilian.

In Barcelona Sauna Thermas: 50 EUR = 58 USD- 311 BRL (today’s conversion rates) in Rio’s 117 / 202 and São Paulo’s Lagoa (high-end prices, using Tomcal’s high-end price example): 250 BRL = 40 EUR = 47 USD Both are programas for 30 minutes. I don’t see how you arrived at the conclusion that Brazil’s prices are higher than Barcelona’s. Also, I can’t speak for @Tomcal but in my examples, I stated mine were “some muscle boys”. I wasn’t referring to any other types. My experience has been that certain guys (those in higher demand, or those who just perceive themselves to be) will charge a higher rate. Muscle boys / gogo boys tend to do this (universally, not just in Brazil), while the ”guy next door” types or twinks tend to command lower rates (why prices are cheaper at certain saunas over others). I’m not saying ALL do this, but a whole lot of them do. You can still get a number of them for 150 reais at the sauna. 100 would be a stretch and highly uncommon. The same kinds of guys (not necessarily the very same ones) are asking for upwards of 250 reais an hour in ads for an incall, more for an outcall (plus Uber costs), with most in the 300-350 reais range. I’ve seen some that are higher, but only one or two that are less than 250. Again, “guys next door”, slim guys and twinks tend to run less than the muscle guys, bodybuilders, athletes and fitness / physique models or real life fashion / print models. Maybe sometimes a porn guy who thinks he’s a star will elevate his rates too. That’s just the nature of the beast and that’s a universal law worldwide, not just a Brazil thing. Tourists are still coming to Rio and São Paulo during the pandemic. there are just less of them.

My information is VEEY recent. Like, within the last month recent.

The ones I know of personally vary. I have an 11-year Brazilian sauna history at this point, and all of the earlier ones with the older stories are no longer together. I would say the arrangements lasted an average of 1-2 years before (1) the benefactor grew tired or bored and was ready for someone new, or (2) the beneficiary was not comfortable with the amount he was receiving, or the level of control. The later ones, in the last few years, two of them are currently together. One GP gets his allowance, his Zona Sul rent paid, and his gym and supplement money. In exchange, he cannot even be seen with someone who could be a client or he gets cut off. The other, I believe their relationship was rekindled after 1 year when the garoto realized there isn’t a whole lot of other offers from people with that kind of disposable income out there. But he gets his allowance, and probably his other bills paid. Oh, and of course, he cannot even communicate with former it potential clients on social media, or he will get the boot from his sugar! Finally, another, who is currently a gogo, has a similar relationship as the one above. Calvin Klein also brought a young guy from Venezuela or Colombia to NYC in the 90s, put him in one or two small ads, got what he wanted from him sexually, then got bored with him and moved on. The guy then danced at Stella’s in Times Squaw for years — and was still using his Calvin Klein cache as his calling card! I agree about them needing to save their money and/or getting a formal education out of it, instead of blowing the money on things they can brag to their family and Instagram followers about. Because it often / usually comes crashing down. I applaud the ones who have the foresight to prepare for this.

Based on my observations and discussions, I’d say that 5-6 years is the maximum burnout period for a sauna garoto. The smart / savvy ones take advantage of the 3 year window they have where they are the “belles of the ball”, and get out of the sauna (and ad) game before they get physically and mentally burned out, they age out, and they are no longer considered The Flavor of The Month. Although I do know a few who are still working the saunas or doing ads after 7-8 years, it’s simply not very common. It’s a rough business, with plenty of fickle clients, and there are always newer, younger, hotter competitors waiting in the wings. Refarding the “arrangements” with sugar daddies who take them out of the saunas / off the poles and into an exclusive, if you talk to many of the garotos, this is what many of them would prefer to have, because they’d rather make the same amount of money or more not going to saunas dealing with multiple clients and other unknown factors. However, such a deal is very hard to come by — not a whole lot of clients who DO have this kind of money to burn are willing to fork out $1000 - $2000 USD a month (plus possible other expenses) just for one guy, when that money can be spread around to experience countless others. However, I do know of a few garotos who have secured sugar daddy “namorados” and left the sauna / ad / gogo / garoto business — at least while they are still getting the sugar!

Some of the muscle boys in the Rio and São Paulo saunas are asking for (and getting) R$200 for a programa in the sauna.

The *top* sauna garotos are earning $1000 - $2000 USD a month. This is also what the sugar daddy “namorado” / “patrocinadores” are paying to get them “off the pole” and keep them away from other clients / out of the sauna work into an exclusive. $1000 USD a month for a sauna garoto woukd be made if he goes to the sauna twice a week and nets 500 reais each trip (so, 3-4 30-minute programas and/or some offsite meetings. Doable for some, but not fir all). $2000 USD a month, you’re doubling that output. I’m not pulling these numbers out of my ass. I’m giving you reala-time information from actual current cases in Rio and São Paulo. Of course, this is a profession with a short window of a few years, so the hottest guys have maybe a 3-4 year shelf life.

Was that for me? You didn’t quite the poster whom your were addressing. if so, this particular Brazilian garoto already had a high online presence across multiple platforms. Plus, he speaks fairly good English. Also, I think OF does not accept Brazilian banks to set up a payment method — only North American and European. I’m pretty certain he is the exception to the rule.

One of the Brazilian (Carioca) working guys whom I have known personally for several years recently told me he makes about $2500 USD (or $13000 BRL) a month on his OnlyFans account. He considers that “just okay”, but that’s more than what the top-earning garotos make in a month working 3-4 days a week at the saunas.

This temporary ban is for land and sea travelers, not air.

YES.

LMAO! You realize people have seen you before, right? Welp, you ARE tall and you ARE white. 2 out of 5 ain’t all that bad!

All that says is he is too embarrassed to be seen with you in public. Even horny straight men have sex with fat women that they don’t want people to know they’ve fucked. They’re called booty calls.

Thank the Lord.

That’s a myth. The percentages of closeted white gays in non-urban environments are just as high as they are in the black community. It’s just that they don’t get the toxic label of “DL” tagged on them. That phrase actually went out in the early 2000s, by the way.

Perhaps. Jury’s still out on The O.