mvan1

Before leaving the subject of Spain, there is another rent boy sauna in Spain (Madrid), called sauna Adan. I have been to sauna Adan, in Madrid, as well as visiting sauna Thermas, in Barcelona. I think that sauna Thermas in Barcelona is a great and fun place. That sauna has been discussed previously. I think that sauna Adan, in Madrid, is a poorly run and depressing place. The employees at that facility are consistently rude and arrogant to both customers and to rent boys. The presence of good looking available rent boys somewhat offsets the negative behavior of the rude employees. Customers and rent boys, alike, complain about the behavior of the rude employees working at sauna Adan but the rude and arrogant behavior continues. This has to have a negative affect on revenue of the sauna. This is because paying customers do not sit around in the sauna buying food or drink. They do their thing with a rent boy then leave as quick as possible. While in Madrid, I generally (but not always) avoid sauna Adan and, instead, always visit a great hustler bar called Black and White - This is a fun place with usually a couple of dozen (or more) rent boys at any one time. This means that the choice of rent boys is abundant. http://www.nighttours.com/madrid/gayguide/black-white.html With regard to a rent boy sauna outside of Spain and Brazil, there is one in Zurich called, Paragonya Wellness Club http://www.travelgayeurope.com/venue/paragonya-wellness-club/ I have been to that sauna many times. It is located in a business type building. One would never suspect that it is a hustler sauna from looking at the building or the sign on the door. The place is clean and efficiently run. Each time I was there the place had many rent boys. Many were South Americans and many were Asians while some were from Eastern Europe. The sauna is in a good location and it is possible to have a good time. There used to be a fun hustler bar near Paragonya called Carousel Bar. There were often more hustlers at this bar than there were at Paragonya. For reasons I do not know, Carousel Bar suddenly closed a couple of years ago and has not reopened. I hope this helps even though my post is a bit tardy based on the initial thread creation. -

Last month I decided to take a break from Brazil and visit London. While in London, I had a great time. In addition to visiting the typical landmarks and touristy things, I went to a long-term London male brother called, Villa Gianni. Villa Gianni is located at #32 Nevern Place, four short blocks from the Earl's Court underground station. It is so easy to find the place. Simply walk out of the underground station, make a left turn, then walk two blocks then turn left on Nevern place, then walk to # 32. After arriving at the facility, you ring a bell at the red painted door that has a 32 on it. The place is in the lower basement of the building. I was greeted by a very friendly fairly young good-looking manager on duty. The manager explained how the system works, i.e., what is involved in contracting with a rent boy at that facility. The manager guided me down a hall way to a room that has a one way glass that allows a viewer to see the rent boys but the rent boys cannot see the viewer. Each guy stands in front of the glass window and demonstrates and shows off what he has to offer to entice you to choose him. The manager told me what each guy likes to do. If you like what you see, you advise the manager and make a choice. The price for one hour is 90 pounds, Sterling, payable after the event concludes. That price is incredibly cheap especially for London, one of the most expensive cities in the world. Considering the low, to nearly non existent, risk to clients (not being scammed by fakes and bogus ads), this facility is awesome. If the escort is more than satisfying, a handsome tip to the escort is definitely in order after the session, even though the escort does not ask for a tip. I returned the next day but the mix of available escorts was not to my liking (nothing but twinks) and I did not stay long. As a general rule, the mix of escorts is predominantly Brazilian. Considering that I like Brazil so much, I was quite pleased. Of course, there are rent guys from many other countries at the facility. It all depends on when you go there. The only thing I do not like about the operation is the fact the rent boys must go through suggestive actions and sort of put on a show to entice clients to choose them. I think it is a little degrading to the rent boy to have to go to a one-way window and show off his wares while not communicating directly with a client. Another good thing about an operation like this is we do not have to contend with fake ads and bogus/stolen photos or escorts demanding money upfront then not performing. In all fairness, I went back the next day and the place was filled with lots of twinks. Although twinks can be nice, they are not interesting for me as romantic partners. I suspect that some members of this forum would have been thrilled on the day that I left because there were not "butch" Brazilians available at the time I was at the brothel. The manager stated that a second shift comes on at six in the evening. This means that there are two crews of working guys each day. What a splendid operation this is. I heartily recommend the place even though there is a risk of not always finding the specific type of guy you like. -

When I first traveled to Brazil, I knew zero Portuguese. That is no longer the case. You asked whether the garotos speak English. Garotos in the sauna and most of the people in hotels and restaurants and other places know little to no English. Early on when I first began visiting Brazil, there were no phone apps to aid in translating. Therefore, I always walked around with a small English/Portuguese dictionary. I carried one even to the saunas. This was a great help in learning the language and in avoiding misunderstandings. I found that most of the garotos were eager to learn English and I was eager to learn Portuguese. During my many trips to Brazil (114 trips counting my current trip), I never had an issue with language. As was pointed out earlier, there are phone apps that will allow almost instant translations. There are many on the market. Some are better than others. The one I bought is called "Talking Translator" and it does a great job. There are two versions of this translator available. Do yourself a favor, do not even attempt to make use of the free version of the app. You said you were considering April for your trip. That is a great time to visit. Right now, I am in Brazil and it has been in the nineties since I arrived two weeks ago. Thank goodness for air conditioning. I will have to consider dropping January from future trips to Brazil. Of course, depending on your interests,there is a lot of culture in Brazil. Culture helps round out your purpose for being in Brazil. Have a wonderful trip to Brazil if you decide to come here.

You might want to check your calendar again. The world cup is this year, not next year. -

I returned to Fragata again tonight, Tuesday evening. Remember, Sunday and Tuesday nights are the “best” nights for visiting Fragata. Again, tonight, I was extremely disappointed at the turnout of garotos at Fragata. The place had only a few garotos and the sauna, to be blunt, was deadly dull. In all fairness, there has been a terrible heat wave, high humidity and thunderstorms in Sao Paulo for the past week. The 10-day forecast for Sao Paulo is for more hot weather in the nineties EVERY DAY. Supposedly, Sao Paulo is breaking heat wave records for this time of year. I previously wrote that Fragata has no air conditioning. There are a few fans but all they do is blow around hot air. It is actually hotter inside Fragata than outside. When I arrived at Fragata (around five o'clock) the temperature was in the nineties and stifling inside the sauna. This certainly explains the low attendance of garotos and clients. Considering the 10-day weather forecast I probably will not visit Fragata this coming Sunday. What did I learn from my past two visits? I learned that whenever anyone in the future asks me about Fragata and which days are the best, I will continue to say Sunday and Tuesday but I will add a proviso, if the weather is hot, thundering and muggy, stay away on those nights.

During my six-week absence from Brazil, my friends who occasionally visited Fragata offered favorable comments. Tonight, I visited Fragata. The place was busy but not as busy as I have seen in the past. There were about 30 gatotos and about 30 clients. Many of the garotos are the same garotos that formerly visited Lagoa a few years ago. Lagoa generally has younger and better looking garotos than does Fragata. When Lagoa garotos begin to loose their looks, they snag fewer clients and eventually they switch over to Fragata. Not all Fragata garotos are former Lagoa garotos, but many are. Although Sunday and Tuesday nights are usually the best nights at Fragata, tonight was not a good night. In fact, going there was a waste of time, money and effort. I stayed at Fragata about two and one-half hours hoping that some reasonably young and attractive garotos would arrive. Alas, only the usual tired and worn out garotos showed. The weather in Sao Paulo over the past couple of days was bad (thunderstorms) plus the temperature was ninety degrees today and Fragata does not have air conditioning. The storm and heat may have contributed to the dismal atmosphere at Fragata. Tuesday will be my next visit unless another storm or heatwave hits the city. If I were assigning grades to my experience tonight, I would give Fragata a grade of "D" - -

- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2529374/Cross-dresser-walks-two-runways-Newark-airport-wandering-terminal-bad-date-despite-300M-perimeter-security-system.html -

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http://player.vimeo.com/video/55042942?autoplay=1&directed_target_id=623964568

- On nights that I visited Sauna Thermas, I did not stay around the pool area which is located on the lowest floor of the sauna. The pool area is where the bar is located. The pool and bar area is not a large space which often fills with customers and clients leaving no vacant seats. In addition to the seats at the bar, there are a few tables but even those tables are often occupied. Considering that I did not know about these “parties” and do not recall ever seeing one, my visits to the sauna took place on days when the “underwear parties and pool parties” did not occur. Even if I had been to the sauna on “party nights” I most likely would not have been interested as I do not visit Thermas Barcelona for the purpose of attending parties. If such a party were in progress while I was there, it is entirely possible that I saw a crowd but ignored it and went to the other areas of the sauna. I appreciate your pointing out the information. -

Hi Gap1972: I see that you are using the Banespa Bank Building from Sao Paulo as your avatar. As you know, that building was once the tallest building in Sao Paulo - now the Edificio that houses the Italian restaurant is the tallest. From your avatar, I gather you like Sao Paulo. It is a marvelous city, isn't it? There is so much to do there. In addition to the sauna life, there are 80 museums in Sao Paulo and countless concerts and other forms of available art and entertainment. Have a wonderful time on your upcoming trip. Please post about Fragata if you go there. I won't be back in Sao Paulo until next month. I am curious if the new announcement of the sale being cancelled will revive the sauna business and bring back the lost clients and garotos.

How unfortunate that you found Lagoa so distasteful to you. Although the two owners are not nice to most customers, I cannot understand how you found the sauna, itself “horrible.” The staff, for the most part is rather friendly and efficient. The facilities are clear and the atmosphere is entertaining. I agree with you that the place was over-priced but that has been remedied recently by allowing customers to pay cash and receive a substantial discount on the entrance fee. As to the garotos being “ugly” and “thuggish,” I cannot disagree more. Of any sauna in Brazil, past and present, the garotos at Lagoa, by and large, are the most attractive of any sauna. Therefore, I am at a loss to understand your comment. I realize that “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” however, it is rare to find an unattractive garoto at Lagoa, in my opinion and in the opinion of anyone I heard of who habitually visits Lagoa. While it is true that the two owners are ill, I do not believe that either owner formerly was “scouting for talent in the south.” The reputation of Lagoa speaks for itself. It is not necessary to scout for garotos. Word of mouth is the best form of advertising or scouting for the sauna. It is correct that many garotos use the internet for meeting clients. However, I doubt that most garotos use this method to engage clients. The internet allows too many exaggerated advertisements by garotos. Most clients prefer to “see in person what they are getting” rather than rely on some photos that could very well be fake photos. It is not at all uncommon to find that garotos use the photos of others. Even though you did not have a good time when you were at Lagoa, it was probably just an “off day” at Lagoa or perhaps your expectations were too high. -

- Since you asked: I just completed my 113th trip to Brazil and I will be returning to Brazil next month. During my earlier visits to Lagoa, my locker at Lagoa was rifled while I was away from it and in the sauna. When I returned to the locker, most of my money was gone. I went to the front desk to complain. In response, Edgarde, the one-third owner, did not offer any reimbursement but said that I should keep quiet about the incident because a theft from a locker might cause future customers to stay away from Lagoa. Edgarde was not the least bit concerned that a frequent paying customer who brought many paying friends to the sauna had been robbed on his premises. His only concern was that bad news might get out and cause a drop in sauna business. On a different visit to Lagoa, I was sitting in the back area of the sauna where the swimming pool is located. There are tables and chairs there as well as a television set. While I sat at one of the tables, a customer (who was in the swimming pool) was watching the television program that was showing. Along came Rodolfo and changed the station without asking others if they were watching a particular program. The customer in the pool did not know that Rodolfo was an owner and shouted at him to put the television station back to the station it was. Rodolfo shouted some vulgar comment to the customer. The customer, again not knowing that Rodolfo was a part owner, shouted some profanity at Rodolfo. Rodolfo promptly ordered several sauna boys that were near, to tackle the customer, pull him from the water and throw him onto the floor while Rodolfo shouted at the customer to immediately leave the sauna. I am surprised that the customer did not call the police. I never saw that customer again at Lagoa. If I treated my clients with such callous trashy disregard or with violence (having sauna boys grab a customer and toss a customer onto the floor), I would not have been successful in my business. Lagoa has some great looking sauna guys available most of the time. However, it is not for the personalities of Edgarde or Rodolfo that brings me or other customers to the sauna. It is solely the garotos that cause clients to visit Lagoa. Take away the sauna boys from the sauna and what would be the purpose to visit Lagoa? Despite my dislike for those two owners, I still visit the sauna along with friends and bring a fair amount of money to Lagoa which keeps those two owners happier than they would be if I did not visit there with friends and spend money in their sauna. By the way, recently the entrance price of $R55,00 was reduced. Rodolfo and Edgarde decided to decrease the entrance price on certain days of the week, provided a customer pays with cash or with a debit card but NOT a credit card. Some days the entrance fee is $R40 if cash or debit card is used. The entrance fee for the sauna guys has also been reduced from $R20 down to $R15. The owners had to do something about the high prices because they were losing too many customers, both clients and garotos. I still enjoy visiting Lagoa and will continue to do so. I suppose I should feel satisfied knowing that my only problems at the sauna related to theft from my locker and my observing an outlandish act of violence against a customer. Sorry you asked the reason?

Brazilians change their mind, just as do Americans - - - A couple of weeks ago I reported the planned closure of Fragata, provided the sale of the building went through. This morning I learned that Antonio (the majority owner of Fragata) and his physician partner have reconsidered selling the building because of unsatisfactory additional stipulations related to the sale/purchase. So, as of today, December 6, 2013, Fragata is no longer slated to be closed. Of course, this could change again but as of now, the owners of Fragata have announced that the proposed deal to sell has been cancelled. What does this mean? For now, Fragata will remain in business. I hope. Word has to get out that the sauna is not closing. Previous announcements (by the owners) concerning the closure of the sauna caused a sudden and severe drop in the number of clients and garotos visiting the sauna. That has to be reversed if the sauna is to remain a fun place to visit. My last visit to Fragata a couple of weeks ago was like visiting a sick friend. The place was depressing and had only a handful of clients and garotos. I will be returning to Brazil again next month and will visit Fragata and will do all I can to encourage friends and acquaintances to visit Fragata. If anyone from this forum plans to visit Sao Paulo, please be sure to include a trip to Fragata. Like I wrote previously, Tuesday and Sundays nights are the best days to visit Fragata.

Great find - I guess a kettle can call a pot black, if it wants. -

There is no need for you to apologize for anything - you have done nothing wrong. Certainly, you should not stay away as you said you plan to do. If someone does not like what you post, just remember what Aesop wrote, "Please all and you will please none." I like your posts and I find them very entertaining. -

In previous posts, you expressed interest in Rio - however, this place is not in Rio. It is in Sao Paulo. The place in very near the main "gay" area not far from Praca da Republica. Since I do not know your likes or dislikes, I will say that I was at this place only once and only at the encouraging of a friend. I stayed long enough to know what going on. There are strip shows, there is entertainment but the place is definitely NOT a sauna. The patrons there are mixed. For example, the younger customers are rather "delicate" or feminine while the older patrons are rather scruffy or quite "nelly" as is sometimes said. There is a large "dark room" where some of the customers go for meeting other customers. It is not possible to see the other person because of the darkness. You merely know someone is there and grabbing you. I personally did not like the place and I have no plans to return even if a friend pleads with me for company. On the other hand, if you like fast sexual contacts without the ability to see the other person, you might like the place. To me, the place is a big UGH! -

After several decades of “entertaining” countless clients and garotos, Sauna Fragata is scheduled to close its doors, forever. Those who have visited Fragata over the years, might have noticed that the sauna is located in a mixed business/residential area. The area is predominantly composed of numerous apartments and condominiums. The owners of the building that houses Fragata received a monetary offer from builders who desire to demolish Fragata's location as well as the immediate adjoining buildings in order to construct a large apartment/condominium complex. The sale and closure of Fragata is contingent on the builder obtaining necessary building permits and approval to construct the desired project. As of last Friday, it appeared that the sale will be accomplished within next few months. In the meantime, Fragata remains open but no longer has the large crowds and fun times of by gone days. Upon learning of the upcoming slated closure, my questions were why don't the Fragata owners simply move Fragata to a new location or sell the business to a third party. I did not receive an answer for these questions. It was reported that the expected gain on the sale of the building is so large, the owners merely want to “cash out” and no longer operate a sauna. Sao Paulo has had some wonderful saunas disappear over the past ten years. Alterosas, Bon Vivant, Boys Club, Paradise are some of the saunas that closed during my recollection. Those saunas had owners who truly tried to make a go of operating each sauna. Each owner treated clients and garotos courteously and tried to make a business of the sauna, yet the saunas failed. Ironically, the only surviving rent-boi sauna in this huge city of more than fifteen million people will be Sauna Lagoa, if the sale of Fragata goes through. What a shame, the two most inconsiderate and undeserving owners (Edgarde and Rodolfo) will operate the only successful rent-boi sauna in Sao Paulo. Unquestionably, for the many who visited Fragata over the years, Fragata will be missed with fondness.

It depends on your expectations. It also depends on you. I am currently in Brazil on my 113th trip here. Needless to say, I like Brazil a lot. I personally like guys a lot younger than I but I like "butch" guys. If I were into guys that like older guys, I would not have any time left for myself as I would be on a non stop date. I frequently decline dates from younger guys. However, the guys that ask me for a date are usually too effeminate for me. Therefore I stick to the saunas and other places where I can pick and choose the guy I want. Of course, this costs money. On occasion I accompany Brazilian friends to dances that cater to gays. There is no age restrictions at the dances. Believe it or not, there really are younger guys who like older guys. These younger guys are not hustlers and get insulted if you offer them money. The younger guys have zero interest in guys near their own age. Again, these younger guys are usually effeminate. If you are looking to hook up with a younger guy, there are numerous gay saunas where younger guys hunt older guys without expecting money. Again, the younger guy will be the "delicate" or effeminate guy, most of the time. As to needing a guide on your first rip, that depends on you. If you are adventuresome and do not fear new places, you might want to (as was already suggested) find out when other Americans (preferably from this site) will be in Brazil. If you were to "tag along" with some knowledgeable Americans, there is no need for a guide. Just my two cents worth. By the way, enjoy your first trip to Brazil. After you have been to Brazil, I predict that you will likely return again and again and again. Boa viagem!

Sao Paulo, Brazil (CNN) -- A pregnant 14-year-old raped, a grenade tossed into a crowd by robbers during a getaway. Those are just a few of the stories tucked inside Rio de Janeiro's main newspaper, O Globo, this week. Crime and violence are chronic problems in Brazil, where the murder rate is even higher than in Mexico. Which helps explain why news of the grisly killing and beheading of a former professional football player didn't even make front-page news in many papers. Police believe that 35-year-old Joao Rodrigo Silva Santos was abducted on Monday evening. When his wife opened the door to leave for work the following morning, she found a backpack with her husband's head inside. According to Brazilian media, Santos' eyes and tongue had been cut out. Santos played for a number of mostly second-tier Rio de Janeiro football clubs before retiring and opening a health food store. Police refused to comment on lines of investigation, but media have speculated that it could be related to a break-in at Santos' store this year. Some newspapers also pointed out that his wife works for the police department in one of the shantytowns that recently came under police control, although she reportedly is a social worker there. The news did, however, make headlines around the world, shining the spotlight yet again on violence in one of the host cities of the 2014 World Cup. And while World Cup tickets are selling at record rates, experts say the violent protest marches that erupted during the Confederations Cup, combined with headlines about crime and violence, might make fans think twice about bringing their families to Brazil. Brazilians themselves were horrified by the story, but to a certain degree, they have become accustomed to crime and violence. In Rio de Janeiro, cars drive through red lights at night. The drivers don't stop for fear of being robbed. Brazilians rarely carry cash, using debit cards even to pay for a cup of espresso. In Sao Paulo, criminal "sweeps" of restaurants and bars are common. An armed gang moves through in a matter of minutes, relieving patrons of all their valuables.

Although I love Brazil, especially Sao Paulo and Rio, take a look at this article that appeared today in Rio Times. Clearly, we should not ignore the ugly side of Brazil - http://riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/rio-daily/former-footballer-beheaded-in-rio/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRioTimes+%28The+Rio+Times%29

There were more demonstrations in the evenings at night near Meio Mundo again last week in Rio. When demonstrations occur, often meio Mundo closes or does not open on nights there is advance warning of a demonstration. Meio Mundo does not open when there is a demonstration because the area around Meio mundo is not safe at night. It is likely that the closures influence whether boys and clients visit a sauna that is in a temporarily unsafe neighborhood.

You wrote with respect to leaving your wallet and phone (camera) in a locker. "I know that is stupid and probably a bit looney but I don't even like it in the USA." To the contrary, it is not a stupid thing nor is it looney. As some may recall, I have traveled to Brazil more than one hundred times and I travel there many times each year, almost every month. In Rio, I never had my locker violated. However, in Sao Paulo, it happened many times; twice at Lagoa, twice at Alterosas, three times at Fragata, twice at Boys Club, once at Bon Vivon and once at Paradise. The last few violations did not yield much for the thief because I learned, early on, that lockers are not safe from thieves. My first and worst experience was after a locker violation at Lagoa. Although there are cameras in Lagoa and some of saunas, what good are cameras? What does a camera prove at a sauna? If you return to your locker and find that your money and other valuables are missing, how can you fix blame? If the violator was a client of the sauna, with a pass key to those flimsy locks given to us upon entry, how can you prove the client took your valuable? What if the client has already left the sauna? The first time a locker violation happened to me was at Lagoa. After I complained about my missing money & valuables, the front desk person called for Edgarde (one of the co-owners) who acted like a nut while shouting and demanding that I not tell anyone outside of Lagoa about the theft or not write anything on the internet about the locker theft because it might discourage customers from visiting Lagoa or cause customers to visit other saunas instead of Lagoa. Fortunately, even though the thief got most of my money that first time at Lagoa, I was with a Brazilian friend who paid my bill which I reimbursed the next day. By the way, even though Edgarde knew that my locker had been violated at his facilities, he still insisted on my paying the entrance fee. Needless to say, Lagoa is not my favorite place to go while in Sao Paulo despite Lagoa being the best sauna for garotos, at the present time. As was stated previously, it is better to visit the sauna with no more than you think you will need and have a standby credit card to pay for contingencies in the event your locker is violated. As to taking photos of garotos, I have not done that at saunas. -

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