mvan1

- I am wondering if you intended your posting about Lagoa as a joke, that most of us missed. I wonder this because your statements about the physical attributes and behavior of the garotos are erroneous. It is not surprising that Brazilians do not speak English. There is little, if any, need for Brazilians to learn a foreign language, considering their small percentage of exposure to foreigners. Remember, you are visiting them in their country, not vice versa. "Lagoa boys are not in good shape?" This statement is certainly in contrast with most prior posters who described the garotos at Lagoa. Unquestionably, your opinion of Lagoa is in the minority who have reported here about Lagoa garotos. As to your statement "Nobody was showing their penis, its a very uptight group of boys, in my opinion." I must ask you where you were last night? In the newly remodeled area right next to the area where food and beverage is served, there is a sitting area where many garotos were sitting and masturbating, attempting to attract clients. How could you have missed that? Also, upstairs there are two areas where guys remove their towel and masturbate while hoping to attract clients. Again, how could you have missed that? Please tell us that you were joking and that you did not miss all the above described activities that happened at Lagoa last night. In short, tell us that your statement "Nobody was showing their penis, its a very uptight group of boys, in my opinion." was a big joke. -

Over the past decade or so, I have visited Sao Paulo's sauna Lagoa hundreds of times. Until tonight, I never saw Lagoa so busy and filled with so many absolutely gorgeous guys as there were tonight - there were dozens of them! I realize that Brazil has a high unemployment rate and that the economy in Brazil is "in the pits" so to speak. However, I never realized that the lack of work would result in countless gorgeous hunks choosing to make a living, albeit temporary, being garotos (rent-men) at a gay sauna. Not that I am complaining, mind you. The newer guys on the scene at Lagoa readily admit they are there because they recently became unemployed and have bills to pay and families to support and, they have to survive. The only negative aspect of the place tonight being so crowded was the necessity to wait for a private room to visit with a chosen garoto. I left Lagoa around ten-thirty tonight. I would have stayed longer except I was with friends who had to get back to their hotel to meet with garotos who planned to spend the night with them or at least visit with them at their hotel. Although it is sad that Brazil's terrible economy caused high unemployment and put people out of work, one garoto I talked with tonight told me that he and several of his friends don't mind losing their jobs because they make more money at the sauna and they work less hours. The Brazilian government recently raised the minimum wage to R$880.00 monthly (roughly $220.00 monthly U.S. equivalent). Considering the low earnings in a traditional job compared to what a garoto makes at a sauna, the choice for the garoto is not difficult.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. The only saunas in Germany are gay saunas. If you are thinking of Brazilian type saunas with rent boys being in Germany, it is not going to happen. Your friend told you about saunas in other cities in Europe but omitted one sauna in Europe that is predominately a rent-boy sauna, which is in Zurich, not far from Germany. The name of the Zurich sauna is Paragonya wellness club - http://www.paragonya.ch/and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2g0VcjgsK4 The sauna is in a very nice section (old) of Zurich, located in a commercial building. The sauna usually has more than 40 working guys. Considering that you like Brazil so much, you might like to know that a large portion of the working guys at the sauna are Brazilians. The working guys are of a varied mix. Of course, most of the Brazilians are "butch" while the Asian working guys are usually "twinks" and are often rather feminine. The club, itself, is extremely clean. The "rooms" that are available for getting together with working guys are rather flimsy with the door made of some sort of thin plastic. The use of the "rooms" is without cost. Check out the web links I provided and you will see the general layout of the place. Having been so many times to the Brazilian saunas and the sauna in Barcelona (thermas), I cannot recommend Paragonya as a place to make a special trip to see. It is okay but it is not one of my favorite saunas.

NOT SO FAST! As I said previously, prostitution is legal in Brazil. The cops that patrol the parks are not stupid. When they see men hanging around in a park that is heavily frequented by gays and making eye contact, most cops ignore you, but they know why you are there. Sometimes, but not very often, a cop might want to make some money (Sao Paulo cops make around R$1,200 monthly) or the cop just might want to have sex. If all the circumstances are in place and IF the cop makes contact with you, it is possible that you will be able to get the cop to go with you to one of the hourly hotels. HOWEVER - the cop cannot go there during his work hours nor in his uniform. You will have to make an appointment with the cop to meet him after he gets off work or after he goes into one of the bathrooms in a shopping center near the park and changes out of his uniform. One cop I met did not want to go to a hotel in the area. He said he would go with me provided I paid for a taxi to an hourly hotel that he knew of several miles from the park. It was a memorable event, one that I would not mind repeating. Yes, it is possible to have a brincadeira with a cop, provided all the stars line up for you (and they could and do). -

While I agree that the parks in Rio are generally dangerous based on a lot of reported crime, the parks in Sao Paulo are quite another thing. I think the reason for so little crime around the Sao Paulo parks might be due to many hourly hotels within steps of many parks. Hourly hotels are cheap. They run between 20 - 30 reais for one hour. The personnel at the hotel keeps the I D of the garoto until you both leave. Most hotels are locked after you are assigned a room, which means that if a garoto caused a problem, the garoto would have a problem leaving the hotel. Furthermore, the garoto would forever be forbidden to return to the hotel with future clients. For example, Trionon park, on Avenida Paulista, is in one of the nicest streets in the city. The park is heavily patrolled by police (prostitution is not illegal in Brazil) and it is easy to meet garotos there during most parts of the day. On occasion, a policeman offers his services to interested park visitors if there are not many people in the park. Another park that is nice (but not as nice as Trionon Park) is Ibirapuera Park where there is a nightly parade of hustlers similar to what one would find in Sao Paulo's only hustler bar, Bar Fama. I have never heard of anyone getting mugged in parks or at Bar Fama. -

- Here is a clip from a movie he did when he was 31. In this scene, he plays the part of a male escort for older ladies. Marlene Dietrich plays the part of a madam in the "house" In this clip, she interviews him for the job of male escort - The name of the film is Just a Gigolo - This was an extraordinary film. Worth seeing in its entirety: -

Considering that I am not a yuppie, I use only the common and ordinary (but popular) 24 Hour Fitness Center while in the U.S. and other gyms when traveling. As noted, I never heard of the fancy Crossfit clubs. The name (Crossfit) is unusual for a worldwide health/exercise facility. According to the web address I furnished in my earlier post, the company is doing rather well, with many facilities. This forum is a wealth of information. -

Thanks for the explanation. Crossfit and the concept just goes to show that as often and as much time as I spend in Sao Paulo, there are things I do not know about the place. I wish him well with his business venture. EDIT: I just did another Google search for crossfit. As I stated in my intial question, the first search produced only the one link I showed. However, the new search produced a link that shows Crossfit in many parts of the world. Check out the belated link: https://map.crossfit.com/ -

I am not familiar with the term "crossfit box" so I checked in Google. Nothing specific about a crossfit box except this - http://www.mensfitness.com/training/build-muscle/what-the-wod-decoding-the-language-of-crossfit Is that what it is? -

Thanks for the update. I always wondered how Danilo would do later, in life. It is good to know that he is still in the travel industry even if he no longer is involved with showing his tour clients the Brazilian saunas. He was in his early twenties when I met him in Rio (2004 or 2005). He was not an escort. He was cordial, business-like and did a good job guiding Americans through the maze of the saunas. -

Your request is not as easy to fulfill, as one might think. Finding a one-on-one guide for Rio who speaks English and knows the sauna scene is next to impossible. You will be able to find a general tour guide but most will not know the sauna scene and most will not know English. More than ten years ago I was aware of ONE Brazilian guide in Rio who guided as you seek. His name is Danilo. To my knowledge, he no longer acts as a guide. One person who might know how to reach Danilo (who could ask him for a referral for you) would be OZ, the owner of this site. You can give it a try. On the other hand, based on my many trips to Brazil, you will not need a guide for Rio. What you need is to read the posts on this site and copy the posts that contain names and addresses of places in Rio you will want to visit. There is a wealth of information on this site concerning Brazil and places that interest those of our persuasion. I realize it is overwhelming to visit a huge foreign city for the first time while not knowing the local language and not being sure of how to maneuver your way around. Unless you are an extraordinarily fearful person, I can guaranty that you will not need a guide if you read the material I suggested above. If you have any specific questions, not covered on the site, ask away. I and several other frequent travelers to Brazil most likely know the answer to any question you might have. You said you don't speak Portuguese. Here is your first lesson in Portugese: Tenha uma boa viagem - which simply means, have a good trip. -

Funny! -

Interesting response! You are correct. The numbers (instances of this sort) are small (fortunately). “What can you do?” We can be more selective about whom we bring back to our hotel rooms or homes. As I said in the title, reporting this event was intended as a “wake up” call. My report was for those of us who hire not previously vetted escorts and/or who bring those escorts to our hotels or to our homes. Even though this incident occurred in the U.S., gay/hustler killings are more common in Brazil. Therefore, reporting this event in the South American section of the forum would have been more appropriate. In Brazil, there is a group of Americans frequently visiting Brazilian saunas and hiring rent-boys. Most of the intimate activities between the Americans and the rent-boys occur within the saunas. Keeping such activities within the sauna is without danger. However, many of us who spend a lot of time in Brazil become comfortable with rent boys. We often invite them to interact outside the saunas. Although this is generally safe and exciting, there is danger associated with it. I have done this for many years. In my opening portion of this thread, I reported that I personally knew two Americans who had been killed in Brazil by rent boys they took back to their hotels. The incident was and is a wake up call (and reminder) to me and I hope it is to others.

- Two days ago, this article appeared: http://mobile.philly.com/beta?wss=/philly/news&id=363401011 I personally knew three different Americans who were killed (murdered) by hustlers (escorts). One was an American friend who lived in the U.S. and two were Americans who often visited the saunas in Brazil and were killed by garotos they took back to their hotels. Now we have this case of an American doctor who got strangled by a hustler he met. Of course, there have been many gays killed while pursuing our hobby. A gay killing does not usually get much priority. However, in the case of this doctor, the hotel surveillance tapes and other items left behind by the killer helped identify and locate him. There are other articles about this case but the case cited above is enough as a wake-up call to us. Be careful guys. Too often we don't even think about this possibility. But, it exists. -

- December 16 at 7:45 PM HAVANA — Cuba and the United States reached an agreement Wednesday night that will allow U.S. commercial airlines to begin operating flights to the island for the first time in decades, according to U.S. officials with knowledge of the discussion. Full article: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/cuba-us-reach-understanding-to-resume-direct-passenger-flights/2015/12/16/0591e5f4-a44e-11e5-8318-bd8caed8c588_story.html -

Here is an English version of the issue. The article appears in PC today - http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2496766,00.asp?mailing_id=1526080&mailing=DailyNews&mailingID=DBC04CDA123554D14265733985A758D1 UPDATE - Now it is back working - the ban was lifted by a different judge. See this BBC article: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-35125559 -

Thanks again for your interesting report. I quoted only a portion of your report because I think the quoted portion needs discussion and clarification with respect to pricing of garotos for foreigners. You wrote "The initial price for foreign clients seem to be 200 these days." I am in Brazil quite a bit (130+ trips to Brazil and usually for two or three weeks at a time). I spend more than half of my Brazil time in Sao Paulo but I also spend time in other Brazilian cities. I was in Rio last month. I am not Brazilian. I have never been asked for R$200 by any garoto in the Rio saunas, or Brazilian saunas in any other city, at any time. I think it is probable that the garotos who asked you for that much money were trying to take advantage of you. Don't forget, just as we talk about garotos, garotos talk about us, the clients. If a garoto told one of his friends that he got R$200 from you, the word would get out that you pay that price. Other garotos negotiating with you will ask you for a similar price. On the other hand, it has been eleven days since I was last in Brazil. Maybe the pricing has increased during that short time period, although I doubt it. The next time a garoto asks you for that much money, laugh at him and tell him he is joking. The garoto knows he is trying to manipulate you. Even though you wrote foreigners, how much do you think Brazilian clients pay garotos for time in the sauna suites? By the way, even at Lagoa, in Sao Paulo (where stunning gorgeous garotos are found) none of them ask for R$200. If that were the current new price, I would certainly know about it. -

Things between the U.S. and Cuba are looking friendlier and friendlier. U.S. Mail service to begin soon. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/12/world/americas/cuba-mail-flights-from-us-to-begin.html?mabReward=A4&moduleDetail=recommendations-0&action=click&contentCollection=Travel&region=Footer&module=WhatsNext&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&src=recg&pgtype=article Also see this regarding traveling to Cuba - at the present time: Q. Can any American citizen visit Cuba now? Continue reading the main story Related Coverage A. As long as the trip falls within one of 12 purposes, Americans can go to Cuba without having to apply for permission, in the form of a license, from the government. The 12 categories of legal travel include visits to close relatives, academic programs for which students receive credits, professional research, journalistic or religious activities and participation in public performances or sports competitions. As Robert Muse, a Washington-based lawyer who specializes in U.S.-Cuba related law, put it: If somebody wishes to travel to Cuba and they “can’t think up a way to fit into those categories, they are not trying.” Based on the above NYTimes article, a trip (now) to Cuba would not be difficult nor would it be illegal. -

- http://www.cnbc.com/2015/12/09/brazils-troubles-deepen-with-ratings-blow.html -

I don't recall the price of the rooms. Whatever it is, it isn't much. As I wrote, the charge is added to your bill. -

I have been to that sauna many times. Although I have never engaged in a three-some, I see no reason why it would not be allowed. You might be aware that the rooms on the "cruising floor" are without cost. While it is true that those rooms are small, it is possible for three or more people to fit in the room and close and lock the door. I have seen some of the escorts sit in the rooms and smoke even though smoking is not allowed. They sit on the edge of the "bed" and then close the door. The rooms in the lower section of the sauna are nicer and you must pay for those rooms. There might, only might, be an issue if you were to advise the person renting the room to you that you intend to use the room for three people. If you use one of the rooms that require payment, I don't see any need to advise the person renting the room to you that you intend to use the room for three people. The room will be rented to you and the charge will be added to your bill. The person renting the room does not follow you to the room. You could negotiate a three some and advise the escorts of your room number. Bottom line - no problem if you use the rooms on the cruising floor and maybe an issue if you use the paid rooms for three people. You said you have never been in Barcelona. Statistically, you will have a splendid time there. Of course, there are better days when the sauna is filled with handsome guys and there are days when only a handful of guys are available. However, most days are great. Cheers -

You are one sick pathetic character. I have never communicated with you privately despite your rambling comment above. On November 30, 2015, a poster to this forum asked a simple question concerning hustler bars in Rio. http://www.boytoy.com/forums/index.php?/topic/25400-hustler-bars-in-rio/ In response to the poster’s question, you answered with the following incorrect and inappropriate response: "Hustler Bars?" During my travels to Rio de janeiro and from all of the "in-depth" reading that I've done and websites consulted, there has NEVER been mention anything about "hustler bars" but an extensive dialogue regarding saunas. So what's your "real question?" One can hardly call your response to the poster correct or even civil. Your remark to him “So what’s your “real questions” borders on being rude. I answered the poster’s response and thought that was the end of the matter. However, you later came back, in response to my answer to the poster (who asked about hustler bars in Rio) with your rude and inappropriate remark to me “**mvan1, try to hold off in showing your "apparent, quasi omniscient answers to and about everything "South or Central America." I responded to your inappropriate remark. My response caused the forum’s resident troll to come to your assistance. In the process, the resident troll eventually called a respected poster to this forum “stupid” which really says a lot about the troll. According to your misguided thinking, you alleged that you were attacked by me because I corrected your inaccurate statements. However, the person called stupid, was not attacked (according to your misguided thinking) by the troll that came to your assistance. Your logic is non existent. Even though you may find it difficult to accept, other people matter. The world does not center only around you and your behavior in this forum. Other than in this specific post, show me where you were previously attacked on this site, by me. You can't, because it never happened, except in your mind. Like I said in my opening remark, you are one sick pathetic character. Get a life!

? ? Excuse me. The person who was attacked was SolaceSoul, not you. SolaceSoul was called stupid - which is an attack. You were not attacked, you were corrected for insisting that there were no hustler bars in Rio and that there had never been any. You were also corrected for your statement about Central America. A correction is not an attack. Speaking of corrections, do you really want to leave this page for Tom’s “recanting” of his adventures? Definition of RECANT: To make a formal retraction or disavowal of (a statement or belief to which one has previously committed oneself). To make a formal retraction or disavowal of a previously held statement or belief. Tomcal has made some very interesting and informative posts to this forum. I certainly hope that he does not retract anything from his previous reports that he has previously written. He has been and remains a valuable asset to this forum. -

- Ah, the voice of reason offsets the false assumptions that started this thread. You are clearly not a Pollyanna and your ability to think is intact. Job well done. -

Although your comment and suggestion are well intended, I must remind you that only a fool makes a deal with the devil. Earlier this year he vowed to ignore me. Then, without warning, he broke his word and nastily responded to a post I made that had nothing to do with him. In other words, he breached his earlier commitment to ignore me. This means that he does not keep his word. It also confirms that he enjoys his role as resident forum internet troll. The term "Internet troll" is defined as - a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community with the deliberate intent of provoking readers. The highlight of his latest breach is where, for no logical reason, he lashed out at a different poster and called him stupid. That poster had done nothing to deserve being called stupid. His past and present antagonistic behavior confirms that it would be unwise to enter any agreement with a person who has a history of not honoring his word. It is my intention to ignore him in the future unless he again chooses to resume his role as resident internet troll on this forum by making further attacks directed at me. A lot of useful information is exchanged in this forum. Through this forum, many travelers to foreign lands and places benefit from the experience and travels of others. Unfortunately, the exchange of information is occasionally interrupted by a small group of trolls that dislike harmony. These trolls seem to delight in being hostile to others. I wonder what motivates or causes this phenomenon. -