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Yes. Nothing is to be gained by trying to coerce him into doing something he's not comfortable with. There are many ways a guy can make you happy you picked him--and may again--if you give him a chance. The boys like predictability as much as we do and I find that most will show it in how they respond to you. That's why they almost always ask, "how long you stay?' Both of you are aware that you only get one opportunity to make a first impression.

My experience with MRT is that usually they will automatically give you senior discount if look old enough.....not that I'm all that delighted about it. lol. You have to go to window to get it BTS doesn't offer it.

From Coconuts Bangkok Mangmoom Card, the common ticket system of Bangkokians’ dreams that will allow us to swipe through between train systems with ease, will really launch next June, Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith promised. The Mangmoom Card, which translates to “Spider Card,” will be compatible with all public transportation systems in Thailand, including BTS, MRT, Airport Rail Link, and buses. https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/transport-minister-promises-launch-common-bts-mrt-card-next-year/

Thanks for details. In my last trip report, mentioned that I sampled three of those shops and was satisfied with two of them. Found one hunky guy that I made repeat visits to and a more guy-next-store type who proved accommodating. Although both seemed "otherwise" straight, the price was right as were facilities.

I asked because, as you've noticed here, posters frequently mention the names of venues that they enjoyed for the benefit of other members who may wish to try them. Although I find it strange that you found it strange, I nevertheless appreciate your niceness.

From The Nation People will be able to visit the elaborately constructed and decorated Royal Crematorium between November 2 and 30. The grand structure, which will be removed following the Royal Cremation of HM the late King Bhumibol Adulyadej, will be open for members of the public from 7am to 10pm. HRH Princess Maha Chakri Sirindhorn will preside over the opening of the Royal Crematorium to the public in a ceremony on November 2, Deputy Prime Minister General Tanasak Patimapragorn announced on Friday. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/breakingnews/30329746

If I lived in bkk, I think this would be a good method. Time is your side. But as a visitor, I tried the apps on a few trips and found myself spinning my wheels and sacrificing precious time without success. At this point, I may take a quick look at what's on offer but don't respond to any unless they appear to be close by. If they don't want to meet for coffee or drink, I don't pursue conversation. I set a 3-4 minute limit for the back-and-forth before I thank them for chatting and move on.. If I'm within a 5-minute walk of Surawong and Twilight, it's an easy decision.

Could you please tell us their names and why you liked them? Thanks.

He was so spent he may not even been aware that he was taking a LB in tow. Is it a coincidence or do all Pattaya labyboys have the same "rational" reason for their thieving ways: they "need"? In this case, he needed it to acquire a 3d vagina. In the case of the LB who recently stole a Swiss guy's camera and a credit card (and charged 55k baht to it) before his arrest, he, too, told cops that he felt the "need" to steal. But at least the punter got a romp in the sheets while the Russian got nothing but a really bad hangover. The difference between engaging a real guy is that at least they understand that they have to provide a service in order to gain the reward. LB's want to skip that requirement. As vinapu observed in previous thread, it's all just "sooo romantic".

From Pattayaone Pattaya police have made the successful arrest of a ladyboy accused of stealing from a Russian tourist whilst he was, worse for ware, shall we say. Police made the arrest of a well known and by all accounts, popular ladyboy who goes by the name of “Noey of Walking Street” Noey had been accused of stealing from a Russian man, who turned out to be a pretty easy target due to the fact that he had drank himself into oblivion. Noey told police that the reason she felt the need to steal was so that she could pay for sex-operation. The original incident took place on October 10th in a walking street bar. Noey and a friend had spotted their target, the Russian, drinking at a small beer bar. They could see that the victim had condumed far to much to drink and so, very kindly, offered to walk him back to his hotel room. The victim, not knowing what day it was, never mind where he was or who he had agreed to accompany him back to his room, left the bar looking pretty happy. Once in the room, however, Noey admitted to police that he had noticed the room safe was wide open and couldn’t resist grabbing what he could, which included a gold chain worth approximately 4,000 Baht and roughly 120 USD in cash. Excuses were made and the pair quickly left the room. It was only the next morning that the Russian man, who has refused to be named, realised that he had been robbed and immediately called police. It didn’t take police long to make the arrest, however, after they had studied CCTV footage from the surrounding area, which led them straight to Noey. Sakda confessed that she stole from the tourist because she needed hundred thousands of baht for a sex change operation at Lelux Hospital on the outskirts of Bangkok — the same medical institute that recently went viral for offering a “3D vagina” surgery. Sakda was charged with nighttime theft, a crime punishable by a jail term of up to five years and a maximum fine of THB10,000. http://pattayaone.ne...-drunk-russian/

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Christian, thanks for eliminating any possible confusion in ultimate determination of who's fat. No longer must I decide between squishy descriptors like chubby and husky. You do not quibble: He who is not thin is fat.

NOTE -- Although the following article doesn't directly reference jet lag, it explains why many of us experience sleep problems. From Weekend Wall Street Journal As we age, bodily changes degrade the quantity and quality of our sleep—which affects our health more than we realize. By Dr. Matthew Walker, director of the Center for Human Sleep Science at the University of California, Berkeley As you may painfully know: Sleep gets more difficult the older you get. Older adults are less able, on average, to obtain as much sleep, or as restorative a sleep, as young adults. The problem gets so bad that by our 80s, the lack of sleep can have major health ramifications, though we don’t always notice. Older adults face a number of challenges. The first is a reduction in the quantity and quality of deep sleep—the stage that beneficially overhauls your cardiovascular, immune and metabolic systems and refreshes learning and memory abilities. As you enter your 30s and 40s, your deep-sleep brain waves become smaller, less powerful and fewer in number. Reductions in deep-sleep quality increase your risk of heart attacks, obesity and stroke, as well as the buildup of a toxic brain protein—called beta amyloid—that is linked​to Alzheimer’s disease. Passing into your mid- to late-40s, age will have stripped you of 60% to 70% of the deep sleep you were enjoying as a teen. By the time you reach age 70, you will have lost 80% to 90% of your youthful, restorative deep sleep. The second hallmark of altered sleep as we age is fragmentation. The older we get, the more frequently we wake up throughout the night. Causes include body pain and a weakened bladder. Reducing fluid intake in the evening can help the latter, but it isn’t a cure-all. Because of sleep fragmentation, older people will suffer a reduction in sleep efficiency, defined as the percent of time you were asleep while in bed. Most sleep doctors consider good-quality sleep to involve a sleep efficiency of 90% or above. By the time we reach our 80s, sleep efficiency has often dropped below 80%. That means that, within an eight-hour period in bed, you will spend upward of 1½ hours awake. Inefficient sleep is no small thing. The lower an older individual’s sleep-efficiency score, the higher their mortality risk, the worse their physical health and the lower their cognitive function, typified by forgetfulness. The third sleep change with advanced age is that of circadian timing—the body’s internal clock that times our sleep-wake rhythms. Seniors commonly experience a regression in circadian timing, leading to earlier bedtimes. The cause is an early release and peak of melatonin in older adults in the evening, instructing an earlier start time for sleep, in part because of an early drop in core body temperature. Changes in circadian timing with advancing age may appear harmless, but they can be the cause of numerous sleeping (and waking) problems in the elderly. Older adults often want to stay awake later into the evening but find themselves inadvertently falling asleep. Accidental evening snoozes release otherwise healthy sleep pressure that builds in the daytime. Irrespective of how old you are, those unplanned naps will make it harder to sleep at night. A compounding problem arrives in the morning. In many elderly individuals, their circadian rhythm will start to rise around 4 or 5 a.m., even if they had trouble falling asleep the night before. A self-perpetuating cycle ensues wherein many seniors are battling a sleep debt. Some methods can help push the circadian rhythm in older adults somewhat later, and strengthen the rhythm. Exposure to nighttime light suppresses the normal rise in melatonin, a sleep-delaying effect that can be put to good use in seniors. Older adults may also wish to consult with their doctor about taking melatonin in the evening. Prescription melatonin can help boost the otherwise blunted circadian and associated melatonin rhythm in the elderly, improving sleep regularity and thus quality. Many seniors progress through their later years not realizing how much their sleep has degraded. This means that elderly individuals fail to connect their deterioration in health with their deterioration in sleep. Not all medical problems of aging are attributable to poor sleep. But far more of our physical and mental health ailments are related to sleep impairment than either we, or many doctors, truly realize or treat seriously.

Forget apps because (as cited) possibility of getting dud on your only night in bkk. Follow solid advice above. Go to Banana Club and get 1 hour (1700 includes fee and minimum tip) or 1.5 hour (2300 all in). At least you're pretty much assured of good experience at well-established place. Then go to Tawan or Twilight, pick a guy and negotiate. Expect off fee (500-800 range) plus tip of at least 3,000 LT. I'd totally forget trying to get off-site LT from any massage shop. Cost will be excessive and masseur, who may be fine for 90 minutes, could disappoint longer (if not exhausted).

Thaler strikes me as a practical sort who would have no trouble understanding Oscar Wilde's imperative, "I can resist everything except temptation." This thread, that has attracted north of 7200 views and 200+ replies in just 16 days, is a great example of what propels the board: a topic that captures our imagination and summons our participation. It was triggered by our interest and--in no small measure--our lust. The discussion has wandered after the Day 14 report and what a journey it has been: how much is too little; how much is too much; does it really matter what we pay if purchaser is satisfied with outcome?

It has occurred to me that the early morning hours may present an opportunity. When deliveries begin arriving, staff can be found away from registers and re-stocking in the aisles. More favorable condition perhaps.

Thanks for the encouragement. I come across a lot of stuff that I eventually pass on because I question the source or that it relates to a matter well-covered in the international media. I avoid purely political matters for the obvious reasons. Having said that, I think I need to be somewhat more selective in finding the balance between member interest and content.

Using an on-line inflation calculator, found that inflation has gone up about 41% in BKK over the past 15 years. Based solely on this measure, a 1,000 ST in 2002 would register 1,410 today. A LT 2,000 becomes 2,820. Not too far off from you might expect, on average, in real-world Bangkok today, although it's understood premium rates apply to places where you find the premium or specialized guys. As many have reported, you won't have trouble finding lower rates in typical Pattaya venues but a handful of places come in closer to Bangkok rates. What no calculator can measure are factors such as personal chemistry and desire--the very stuff that can skew an "average" fee in a heartbeat. None of this is out of the ordinary. The work these guys have chosen to do is the road less traveled for most young Asian males. And it's not unusual that the top talent--like the best athletes--demand more for their service than journeymen. While vinapu's account of high-end offs may initially draw shock and awe, they're actually a rational reflection of what's happening on the ground. And they serve the crucial function of helping to sustain the industry.

Agree. Often crossed my mind while waiting in line but never could figure out an approach considering the awkward setting.

For what it's worth, I generally agree with those who replied to this post and also with those who replied to post about "Massage parlor sex 'sinking' Bangkok?" I posted the former because it was from a popular men's magazine and referenced places most readers would be familiar with. The latter I posted because it was simply bizarre and provided a bit of comic relief (surprised it was even taken seriously). But I think I can make better use of the time spent searching for unusual articles. I'll have more fun just commenting on the posts of others.

On my first visit 15 years ago,1,000 baht was the ST fee expected by guys working out of Balcony. Kind of puts things in perspective.

Excerpts from GQ magazine No one does shopping malls better than Bangkok. The city is a sprawling, multilayered metropolis of endless energy, with skyscrapers slapped on top of old shophouses and small alleyways that weave through the city blocks like sidewalk cracks. Yet even with all the stark differences that the city highlights, there is something universally Thai about heading to the mall. Yet the nerve center of any Thai shopping mall is the food court. And while I’m sure there are people who will disagree with me, it turns out a lot of the mall food in Thailand is legitimately good, far better than the Sbarro and Hot Dog on a Stick you might find in America. You can pick anything from boat noodles and sukiyaki to chile-spiked spaghetti and deep-fried steak cutlets, all crammed together and accessible via escalator. Don’t get me wrong, there is a lot of Bangkok street food worth seeking out—like the places that serve fried oyster omelets in Chinatown, the noodle vendors who cook pad Thai over coal-powered wok stations in Old Bangkok, or the gentleman who has been hawking late-night grilled pork skewers in the go-go bar–filled Patpong district for two decades plus. (Whenever I ask him what his secret recipe is, he just points to his chest with a sly look and says, mak duay jai rak, “It’s been marinated with a loving heart.”) As a Thai-American private school punk, those were my first loves, but I learned that even street food has limits. If you want to see how a majority of Bangkok’s citizens eat, go to a food court. Thai society is notoriously self-aware of social class—everything from clothes to restaurants to shopping habits are categorized as either hiso (high society) or loso (low society)—but the food court is the place where you’ll see a construction worker eating from the same kiosk as a business tycoon. The reason for this is actually pretty straightforward: Imagine you were a vendor who made spectacular seafood curry and sold it from a street cart daily. Maybe you hustle hard and at some point earn enough money to upgrade your operation. You pay the token rent at one of the smaller malls out in the outer boroughs of the city, and maybe accumulate enough name recognition to expand into another slightly larger mall down the road. Soon enough you’re expanding across the city. That’s the Thai dream right there. Continues with photos https://www.gq.com/story/mall-food-courts-bangkok

NOTE -- Chose this thread to post following item because I believe that it serves as a good example of why it's better to avoid confrontation and conflicts whether you are visitor or an ex-pat. When confronted, particularly in public, with an escalating incident, take a deep breath, lower your voice and avoid causing the other party to lose "face". If you're a visitor, it's advisable to avoid driving. Transportation is generally inexpensive and there are usually alternative forms to get you to your destination. This began as minor road incident and rapidly escalated. From The Nation / Thai Visa The ‘Australian’ pensioner who was floored by a left hook in the parking lot of a Pattaya school on Wednesday after a road rage incident is really British national George Collins, 77, Thaivisa can reveal. He clarified his background in an exclusive interview with Thaivisa on Friday morning before he attended another hearing at Pattaya police station at 10am. He still maintains his innocence despite facing a charge of attempted murder calling the whole thing a "crazy business". Sumeth Rungratanaphan, the gold shop owner who punched him, is being charged with assault and has apologized for his actions. The Thai press reported Collins posted Bt200,000 bail. Collins was knocked down in front of a cop, teachers, and students as he was in the parking lot at Aksorn Suksa School in Soi Korphai. He was picking up his nine-year-old daughter at 3pm on Wednesday. But when police saw video footage from a dash cam of a car presented to them by the 28-year-old gold shop owner, they agreed there was a case to answer for the man now revealed as a British pensioner. Sumeth said he intends to push the matter to the fullest extent of the law. A still “dazed and confused" Collins told Thaivisa from his Pattaya home this morning: “It's a crazy business," he said, "but this sort of thing happens in Thailand. I still intend to stay here for the rest of my life. Continues with photos http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/breakingnews/30329188

You're not only a scientist, Christian, you're a damn magnanimous one.

I think now that the hottest straight guys have got a good taste for what Chinese are willing to pony up to secure their fantasy, they have nothing to lose in pushing the envelope. It's a time-honored business practice: meet increasing demand with higher prices. It was three years ago when I was approached by a strikingly cute tout trying to get me into a bar. I heard none of his spiel and interrupted him reflexively with, "you're a cute guy...want to come to my hotel?" He considered the offer for a few seconds and countered with, "I go to your hotel 4,000 baht." It wasn't a question. It was the first time I had ever heard a number that high proffered by anyone. And his look was calculating without a hint of a smile. "You're not that cute" was the best reply I could muster and moved on. Time has passed and I've never seen the guy around since, but I can still pull from memory that incredibly cute face. Don't know what the hell I'll do if I do find him again. But I do know this: if I'd been approached by the same boy in NYC or Boise and asked for $120, I wouldn't have hesitated a moment. Perspective--and geography--is a great equalizer. Since I also harbor a strong attraction to straights, I agree that the best signal of how the session will proceed is a hard cock on first contact. Sure, he may turn out to be a grower; quite a few do. But nothing promises delight more than touching a rock. Thanks again for your tour-de-force!