reader

I'm thinking about a few times when I came across a guy who, for whatever reason, was unable to perform. I don't believe now that I was intentionally deceived. I think he had hoped he could pull it off but some things just can't be done even with the best of intentions. I have to admit that I've been unable myself to perform in situations in the past. As was mentioned above, perhaps a good way of handling these rare events is to try to make the best of it. If I think he's embarrassed by his predicament, I'm certainly don't want to compound the problem by berating him. I'd tend to put him at ease and try to salvage the experience. Maybe just some gentle cuddling will cause him to relax. I might also try giving him a bit of a massage (never ran across a guy who didn't enjoy having someone--anyone--rub his back). I'm not precluding that there are some guys out there who are indeed deceitful but I just having run into them here as I have done on more than a few occasions back home. All told, however, satisfactory outcomes are the rule. I'm heartened by your decision not to blacklist Screwboys in particular or Viet guys in general. I can assure you that there are many out there who have made me more than grateful that I chose them. And I agree that Screwboys is a class act that will be near the top of my list when I return.

Fortunately I don't have to pick ONE so here's my simplest recommendation: At any of the bars, shows, or massage shops where guys are assembled outside, you get to see them in the flesh so therefor they're unlikely to disappear. You're own your own from there but I'm confident you'll know how to proceed.

Yes. Twilight, Patpong 2, massage shops, Moonlight, Soi Six, Jupiter, BTS....just about anywhere.

Thanks, ggobkk. Reading the trips reports of others (and you're among them) is what started me contributing to the board. Hope it encourages more members to share their experiences. Just got back and think I may sleep late tomorrow. Love the going journey, hate the returning one. As I rehashed my trip on the return flights a few things stood out. First, low season shouldn't mean lower expectations. Found that there were plenty of guys in all types of venues. And the quality gets high marks. Second, the weather is different but not necessarily inferior to high season. In nearly four weeks I had only two washout nights. But the shows and massage shops were still open despite the water. With the majority of days overcast you don't have the sun beating down on you like your do in prime time. Third, we are indebted to visitors from China for keeping the gay scene alive and well for the rest of us. These aren't the "zero-dollar" tourists who were so common a few years ago. And they're coming to BKK at a much younger age than most of us did.

Thank you Alex303. You explained it perfectly. Have become fond of more than a few of these guys and hope others readers will too.

From Sunday NY Times, a look inside the cave. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/07/21/world/asia/thai-cave-rescue-ar-ul.html

FOURTH INSTALLMENT Freshboys 2 -- Was walking to Foodland last night on Patpong 2 and a cute Viet tout latched on to me and ever so patiently lured me upstairs. I had wanted to see the new digs anyway so it didn't take all that much convincing. Drink (350) which was delivered by mamasan/waiter in jacket and tie. There was one other solo customer and a male/female couple sitting off to the side in a darkened corner. On stage there were a dozen boys who were rotating in a grid pattern so every guy had ample front exposure time during a 15-minute or so cycle. They were Thai, Lao and Cambodian and all could be best described as guy-next-door type. No body builders--although some beautiful bodies to be seen--and no fems. Any reader would find at least one, and probably more, who ticked their boxes. All were wearing white Speedo-type white briefs. In addition to those on stage, a handful of others were seated about, waiting their turn to join the rotation. It was between shows and the next one wouldn't start for about 25 minutes. The other solo customer left so now most of the eyes were riveted on me. This is a bit intimidating but they are a good group to admire from about eight feet away. I tell the mamasan I just want to tip some guys and not off anyone. She called down the numbers I gave her (which came to six) and I also tipped one of the boys who had been smiling at me off stage while waiting his turn. Tipped the mamasan (who wasn't pushy) and got up to leave to the sound of appreciative applause. I'm in an expansive mood that some might say I should reign in. But I count myself as so damn lucky to be here to experience this that I feel compelled on this night to support these guys in low season for the joy they briing into my life. The Viet tout, who was taking a turn at trying to get the couple to pick a guy, followed me outside to thank me. Of course I tipped him and told him he was the hottest guy there. "You Ha Tinh?" I asked. Yes he replied, adding "You know Ha Tinh?" It was written all over him. I get a big hug and resume my trek to Foodland. MOONLIGHT (second visit on a Tuesday night) -- After hearing about my first visit, my regular guy wants to see the show so we enter about 15 minutes before the 10:30 show. He picks front row, center seats and immediately tells me he likes the music. Show gets underway with same acts from the previous week When the models for the evening are introduced, there are only three, down from the five on a Thursday. To my dismay, the object of my obsession is not among them this time. So glad I have the memory of first visit to sustain me until next trip. A tip of the boy (#4) who indicated he'd like to go with both me and my friend and we leave. My guy tells me he enjoyed it but still thinks Dreamboys has an edge. MASSAGE SHOPS --Continue visiting massage shops mentioned in previous posts. Logged one 3-massage day and many doubles. Just visited same guy (Pao) at Mantra massage for third time before walking over to internet shop on Silom to post this. SUAN PLU -- While exploring a restaurant recommendation from DivineMadman. I was surprised to find how somewhat gentrified Suan Plu seems to be. Hadn't been over this way for several years and came across two massage shops with familiar names directly opposite each other. It must be Art Massage's sixth (or more) location as I viewed it from in front of Indra Massage. No idea if associated with the Soi Tarntawan location. Two of the guys sitting outside tried to persuade me that the I would be very happy with the third guy who was beaming a smile my way. What do they know about me and how do they know it, I wonder LOL. MADRID TAVERN -- Bring my guy here for his very first pizza. He chooses the Supreme and me my usual, the Veggie. Loves it from the first slice. I tell him I know a guy name Vinapu who likes the white pie. "No understand," he says so I show him the photo in menu. "It good?" He asks. They're all good I tell him as he takes another slice. Btw, Dominos is opening a shop at the mouth of Patpong 1 and Silom. The proximity of mass production product steps away from the great Madrid offerings should hopefully persuade all Madrid fans never to pass on an opportunity to promote this gem. MAXI'S ON TWILIGHT -- A singer accompanied by guitarist now providing live entertainment Friday nights. Easy listening and adds more class to this place that continues to draw good crowds in low season. RUMORS -- Some of the Viet guys admit that they're fearful that the immigration police will swoop in at any moment. There have been well-publicized raids across the city and some Vietnamese have been scooped up for overstaying or not having working papers. But they represent a minority. Still, one guy suddenly told me today he's going home until September and a few others leave next week. Hope this is all temporary.

Left myself wide open for that one. Lol.

That may be so but--as previously pointed out--same same applies to relationships everywhere, not only inThailand. If we cocooned ourselves in emotional bubbles we would successfully avoid all entanglements and avoid all rendering of the heart. But we would, in the end, find ourselves old men with memories limited to what could have been. Entering the arena, I grant, isn't for the faint of heart.

It had crossed my mind but since I was in possession of 22,000+ in bht from SuperRich I opted on side of caution. My bottom line for this humorous bit of massage trivia: (1) the lad needed his sleep more than the income (2) I did indeed dodge a bullet (3) should have have trusted my initial instinct that "Rock" was destined to be a dud even if me managed somehow to stay awake (4) there are ample good massage reviews but I can now claim one of the more unique

In the 17 years of coming to Bangkok I've had the full range of massage experiences from great on on down the scale to disappointing and one or two outright bad. But this is the first time I've had one that escapes definition. Here's how it came about--or actually didn't. On the previous day when just about to enter the SuperRich main location on Silom, two guys wearing Best Massage shirts walked past and made eye contact. I glanced back just before going in the door and one had his head turned smiling at me. After doing my business, I took the short walk to the shop on the first level of complex that also houses Arena Massage. There I found five guys and asked the one who smiled at me his name. Let's call him "Rock." I tell him I'll be back for a massage from him and he thanks me. Jump to today about 3:15 and I return to the shop and ask guy at reception for Rock. He dispatches another guy to get him. After about 5 minutes Rock appears. He's not smiling and looks a bit under the weather. But this is Thailand so I assume he'd been napping. He leads me to a large but really hot room on the second floor. He closes a window that had been emitting a hot breeze, tosses a towel on the table and says "take shower" and disappears. After showering and toweling off, I'm becoming more aware how hot this room is. I attempt to start the air conditioner but it doesn't seem to have a power source. I sit on the table for almost 10 minutes and no sign of Rock. Cut your losses I tell myself and get dressed. As I head toward the stairs, I can hear low snoring from another room. Therein lies my would-be masseur. When I get down stairs and pull on my shoes I inform the reception guy that a Rock is fast asleep. "Very sorry," he offers. I thank him for the use of the shower and leave.

Channel News Asia reports that the Wild Boars tried to dig their way out of their chamber. A military medic who stayed with the boys until they were rescued said he was impressed by their optimism and discipline. He credits their coach for contributing to the psychological and physical well being of his charges. https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/thailand-cave-rescue-thai-boys-coach-tham-luang-10534542

Could you share the source of your socio-economic statistical findings?

This is an area of human sexuality that defies conventional description. As an adolescent, I had mutually enjoyable sex with many of my male peers. Very few went on to become "gay". The term didn't even exist. But there was one who I'd still get together with on spur of moment well into his 20's. That, I'm sure, anchored my attraction to predominantly straight men. They represent a key formative phase in my life and never really looked back. I've had a few exclusively gay relationships but they were short-lived. I'm with with my regular guy as I write and I'm very much aware that it's his mannerisms, the way he expresses himself and his self confidence that are big factors in my attraction to him. We don't edit what we say and neither is trying to gain the upper hand, a problem I see in some gay relationships. There's a high comfort level between us. It's not that I don't identify as gay. But I get the greater satisfaction with otherwise straight men. This doesn't keep me from enjoying sex with other gays but my preference lies elsewhere. I don't have to be number one in his life. Just being a part of it suffices for me. I admire and wish nothing but the best to LT gay couples. They'll be there for each other fof many years and I envy them that commitment. I just ask that others try to appreciate my situation.

The retired Thai Navy Seal has been posthumously promoted seven ranks to that of lieutenant commander by the King. He died during the mission to save the 13 trapped Wild Boars. https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general/1503426/posthumous-promotion-for-ex-seal#cxrecs_s

1300 has become my standard for good, one hour massage. But I'm confident most guys would be perfectly satisfied with 1200. Older I get my grateful component increases.

Since I can find no mention of this place before, thought is was worth a new post. Located on Surawong diagonally opposite Starbuck's, I've been walking past this shop for years without stopping. Why I'm not sure because there were always two or three nice enough looking guys sitting outside and not shy about offering a smile. Today (about 2:30 on Saturday afternoon) I was walking by and a good-looking young guy gets up and approaches me, offering a body massage. I tell him I'm on my way to Silom complex but will look for him on way back. But right away I think I'm passing on a good opportunity for no good reason other than I've never stopped there before. I take a diversion and walk up next Soi to look at GBoys in daylight and consider the matter. I grab a handout from out front and walk back to Surawong, now persuaded to take this guy up on his offer. As I approach he smiles and leads me to second floor where I settle on a one hour oil for 500. I'm taken upstairs to third floor and take shower down the hall. The room is a small cubicle but clean with massage table. "Pao" tells me he is from Isan and 20 years old. His English is limited but we manage to communicate fine on all the critical issues. As he's ready to begin, he motions to his shirt and I nod yes. It disappears along with everything else. He's one of the few guys who understands the first time around what "nit noy oil" means. He uses smooth, firm strokes as he straddles me on the table. I reach behind and locate my flaccid objective. Two minutes later it's standing at attention, or demanding it I like to think. After he finishes my back, I get off the table and ask him to take my place. No problem. After I've fulfilled my sworn duty, he resumed command. The best description of the HE was sensual, slow and caressing. None of that rapid jerking some guys resort to just to move on. Before I leave he tells me works only part time (noon to 6) Saturdays and Sundays). He gets an extra star as he didn't ask me what I would pay him. As I descended the stairs three more guys (every one of whom looked good to me) were now sitting outside.

This may be first time public hears individually from the dozen boys. http://www.khaosodenglish.com/featured/2018/07/14/hear-12-boys-and-coach-thank-world-video/ In-depth report from Washington Post. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/time-is-running-out-inside-the-treacherous-rescue-of-boys-trapped-in-thai-cave/2018/07/13/df335afe-8614-11e8-8f6c-46cb43e3f306_story.html

There are many guys in the show other than the "models." As PaulSF advised in another post, go see the shows yourself. Your experience will be unique. Reviews of others may be helpful but cannot substitute for first-hand visit. Enjoy!

Although I didn't ask, his behavior said yes., for a price. Only had about 2500 left on me (hadn't come hear seriously considering an off) so I was way short of third base already as the off fee for models (as I was just reminded by an erstwhile member) is 1500. Had I been better financed, have to admit I might have gone for the whole shebang. 1500 off, 5000 tip, place in will, keys to car. He was that hot.....and zero attitude.

Addendum to third installment Forgot to mention a first in my experience of massage shops. Adam massage places small cloth bags in each room which guy points out to you to store your valuables in. You're encouraged to take the bag into shower where hooks are provided. Random observation -- Brick and mortar retail is thriving here. Visited Central World and Big C and they were both mobbed. Think "Black Friday" in post-Thanksgiving USA, 24/7/365. Dean and Deluca is about to open its largest Bkk location. As you enter Central World from walkway under BTS it will be on you right. Currency exchange -- got the best rate of trip today at SuperRich main location on Silom next to Arena. 33.25 to the USD. SuperRich Silom complex location buying dollars ar 33.12 same time. Shenanigans, which may or may not have been the Irish bar replaced by Hooters on Silom, has now opened in a large space on Surawong between Patpong 1 and Patpong 2. Doing great business on World Cup nights.

THIRD INSTALLMENT The Shows Screw Boys -- A compact place with good views of the stage and reasonable prices (300 entrance fee with one drink included). Music level is Ok but lighting is a bit too dark for my aging eyes. But I can distill much data from a silhouette. Many easy-on-the-eye boys that twink fans and others will appreciate. Good representation of Vietnam guys. Armed with a photo from a friend on my phone, I give waiter my order and pull up the pic. When he returns, he spots the phone and cuts to the chase: "you want him?" I nod my head and 15 seconds later "Tam" is sitting beside me. A slip a 100 note to the waiter and things proceed rapidly and we're soon walking down Surawong to hotel. He's friendly and has a tight, compact body that I like. He messages our mutual friend that he is happy and grateful for introduction. Moonlight -- First visit but I'm ready to give this place top billing. It's a Thursday night and I pay 350 entrance fee and given receipt for one drink (second drink is 200). There are no bad seats that I can see. I choose a stool on second row back. Other patrons have opted for rows behind men (including a scattering of Asian women) or the front row below me. Waiter takes me slip and brings me a Singha. Show is just getting underway and the staging and lighting is very professional. The sound is of the quality and volume that reverberates through my body so at least I know everything's still working. Everything about the production, from quality of guys to choreography, sends signal that this is meant to please the eyes as well as entertain. Music is selected to have wide appeal and all lyrics are in English. It appealed to me who came of age in the 60's. The stage is always well lit and the guys, who I previously only know from pics and videos, look better in the flesh. When the five models of the evening are introduced (all in briefs), one immediately gets my attention. A strong swimmer's body, perfectly proportioned with long torso. He wearing a red headband and, naturally, a dazzling smile. They eventually go off stage and show proceeds with interesting scenes. But I no longer believe the uniform size cocks are real or even intended to fool anyone. It's show business. When I saw a a pair of performers at Fresh Boys strike them against a pole and get a pinging sound in return, any unresolved questions were set aside. At some point I glance to my right and the object of my desire (the model just described), is casually leaning against wall, looking my way. I invite him to sit beside me and waiter asks me if I will by boy a drink. Of course I do and gladly pay the 400 tab presented. He tells me he's from Phuket and places a hand on my leg. I get immediately weak at the knees. I run a hand over shoulders and down the most amazing back that I've ever had pleasure to explore. When I tell him he's the best guy in show, he asks waiter to translate. Big smile and wai when he hears the words. We exchange usual stuff (where you from, how long you stay) while he maintains should contact. After about 20 minutes, he has to get back to work, I slip him 300 for his time. I get up as he does and he grabs my hand leads me away from seats, thanks me, puts his hands on my sides and then gives me another wai as he leaves. I find the waiter and give him a red note and exit. It was like flying too close to the sun. Never entered club figuring I would get to meet one of the star attractions. Somehow I managed to stumble back to hotel. When I got to room I had a bag from Family Mart in my hand and don't even remember stopping there. This guy can be seen at about the 3:45 mark of this video, entering stage wearing leather vest. https://m.youtube.co...h?v=ki61caIuzmw If you see only one show in Bangkok, this is the one. Numazu's posts about this place are right on the money. The massage scene Nakarat -- You've heard me and Vinapu talk about this place and it's my go-to shop for selection, convenience and price. Easy to find opposite Sunrise Taco at Silom and Soi 4, you'll find wide selection of guys with black shirts hanging out on Silom around entrance to soi. You pick your guy and he leads you through restaurant to third foor. 450 for 1 hour oil. Posted elsewhere about it in Gay Asia/Vietnam forum. Adam -- Also on Soi 4, this is a very well-run operation by a proprietor known for taking very good care of his charges. Hence, many have been with him for long time. If you want a good-looking veteran who is eager to accommodate your wishes, "Kume" (way it sounds to me) is a good pick. If you're looking for a younger guy who is the classic Isan specimen, you can't go wrong with "Chok". He particularly enjoys being massaged and, by now, you guys know this rates big with me and leads to repeat business. But all the guys here are nice but, as in any shop, you want to discuss your expectations before hand. You get a cup of warm tea and bottle of cold water after. 500 for 1 hour oil. Ganymede -- Posted update in separate "Ganymede Spa" topic in this forum. Other Stuff Telephone Bar -- Same great wait staff but new and disappointing menu. Whereas the old one had many color photos of dishes (that made ordering easier and quicker), this has none. One of my favorite items, the club sandwich, has disappeared from menu as have others. And the burger price seems to have jumped 40 bht. Thankfully, the drink specials remain the same as does the people watching opportunity. Golden Cock -- Stopped by for a quick session one afternoon. Brought drink for mamasan and guy who I recalled from visit last year. He produced Isan quality tool that quickly became rigid. But I was on a mission elsewhere so tipped guy, paid tab and moved on. But it's comforting to know this place continues to exist in original format. As I was settling bill, a guy came downstairs and said he was Lao. Hmmm...didn't I read something about a new guy from Laos somewhere recently?

Here's a capsule report on my experiences with Viet guys over past three trips to Bkk: All but possibly one were with straight guys. I don't rule out gays but I find that I'm attracted to vibe that what I call "Bangkok straights" give off. It's a mix of masculinity, appearance and other stuff I can't articulate. I admit that I do not find fems attractive. Where I found them: Screw Boys -- offed a guy (recommend by friend) who held up his part of arrangement. Nakarat massage -- Located at Silom and Soi 4, this shop usually has a good selection of Viet and Thais available on sidewalk or around corner on Soi. I have had massages from five different guys. Four of theose I have used two or more times and thee I have arranged to meet after hours and went back to my room. The performance of all met expectations. Nakarat: bht 450 for one hour oil, 600 for 90 min. I don't know if I've just been lucky or have an innate vetting process. I try to treat all with respect and try to make it a fun experience for both of us. Btw, one of those guys has been my regular guy who I spend much time with. He understand me and I understand him, or at least as close as I'm capable of understanding a much younger man from a very different culture. What keeps it going? He makes me laugh, something I don't seem to do enough of at home where I'm just another old man.

Broke up more than a few times, watching coverage. If you're going to give up your life to a cause greater than yourself, is there a better one? Let's keep in mind that those 22 grown men are exactly what these boys aspire to become. The lessons and discipline imparted by the game and their coaches I have to believe contributed to their character that was so in evidence throughout. That some of these boys are stateless immigrants from Myanmar adds to the signifance of this event. Their status meant nothing to those who risked their lives to get them out nor did it matter to the Thais and others who embraced them and prayed for their safe return.

Although I've never been to VN, can assure you that there are many Viet guys who'd like to make your acquaintance in BKK.