Londoner

My first trip to Pattaya was a few weeks after I'd been staying on Grande Anse Beach in Grenada. I remember looking out of my window at Royal Garden and saying, "Oh my God." There were of course some compensations. In fact, so many that I've never returned to the Caribbean.

I wonder if one of the issues in Dom's death may be connected with the college he was attending. English professional football clubs put millions into youth football in their determination to discover the next generation of stars. Boys as young as eight are training with my premiership club, and other wealthy ones. They are scouted as young as five, their parents are rewarded, promises are made, contracts signed and hopes of stardom and unlimited wealth "sold" to young children desperate for success. And to "pushy" parents. Only one per cent "make it". Most are disappointed and many traumatised. When Dom arrived here, I thought it would end in disappointment, but not tragedy. The standards are so high, the demands so great, the avenues for success so few that only the most able and the most psychologically-strong even make it as far as youth level. And here was a Thai boy, alone and ill-prepared for the challenge. Bringing him here was well-meant but football as a career, as an ambition? Unwise. Dreams are fine but the fact that Dom was merely a good player in a village team. None of this may be relevant to Dom's tragedy but I do have some personal experience of what is serious problem in the UK.. And don't get me started on the problem of impoverished kids being dragged out of poverty in Africa and abandoned once they are seen not to be good enough.

Agreed. If it is cover-up of failings by the college, or indeed anyone else, it is unforgiveable. I suspect snippets of information may be forthcoming but there are undoubtedly people- teachers, students, friends or family- who know more. And why has it taken so long ?

It refers to the sort of love, affection and (importantly) sense of debt that a Thai feels for his parents, or perhaps for a special teacher at school or university who has guided him/her. Or for a falang who has helped him or her, perhaps changing his/her life for the better.

Absolutely. That'; what happened in Boyztown. If you are chatting with a guy in the hope of an assignation, it's hard enough overcoming the language barrier without all four ears being assailed by loud music.

Boy69 is spot-on. There were times when P and I stared at each other with total incomprehension in our early years together. Has anyone read "Thailand Fever" by Chris Pirazzi? It is about relationships with Thai women but I found it very helpful at those times, particularly since the text is translated into Thai and so the book can be shared with our friends. And here's a Thai word, a concept perhaps, that needs to be understood...."gatanyuu". No exact English equivalent. Posters who have experience of ltrs may have views on it.

We were in CM nine months ago and return shortly. As I say elsewhere, the lack of Chinese tour -groups has had a big effect. I can't comment on the gay scene but our two favourite restaurants, one of them the celebrated Whole Earth, were closed and haven't re-opened. in fact, we ate much less well than usual. I smile when the airport taxi takes us along the moat to our hotel- so different in atmosphere to Pattaya and Bangkok- while a look of serenity appears on P's face when the stupas of his favourite temples come into view. One of our favourite places in Thailand.

"Big Boy" at Adam's Apple was said to be gay. He was in love with a cute little dog in the shop next door.

And I miss the old scene around Adams' Apple. Not just the bar with its fire-hazard setting up some dangerous stairs, but its cute audience. Many from CMU. Sometimes fifty plus dancers and invariably a full-house of punters. And if you wanted some fresh air (or safety), the circular little bar opposite with an attractive bar-keeper.

I recall Jim Lumsden at Ambiance/BBB telling me fifteen years ago that the future for gays bars was bleak. He blamed it on the arrival of dating apps. It wasn't long before he established his new hotel..

I recall a show in Boys (?) in Soi Twilight. In the audience were three enormous khatoeys....six-footers. A skit was performed involving a guy being unkind to a twink. The three khatoeys leapt on the stage, stripped the offender and proceeded to screw him one after the other. It was all part of the act of course but it made a change from the usual stuff. I also remember a young falang tourist being hauled onto the stage to join in the fun across the soi at X Boys. And also, again at Boys, a spoof ethnic- dance, in which a huge phallus was worshipped and manipulated until it let loose a shower of milk (I hope) across the audience. Only in Thailand.

There is something wrong with me, I fear. Last I week I posted about my lack of understanding as to why people who like well-built guys choose Thailand as a destination. I was fortunate that vinapu enlightened me. Now I have to ask about big cocks; what's the attraction? OK, I can understand a guy who prefers to bottom liking them, or indeed a woman, but if you're a top? As it happens I prefer small ones for aesthetic reasons. Again, I ask for enlightenment. .

If only it were that simple!

I echo vinapu's comment even if our tastes are different. Thailand has something for everyone, even our unfortunate straight brethren. I wonder if there any other places in the world where so many holiday jaunts have ended-up as ltrs?

Younger posters may not be aware that, back in the day, meetings such as Mr Bill describes were very difficult to arrange. Gogo bars opened at 2100, there weren't so many host bars open earlier and few massage places anywhere in Pattaya. And of course there were no mobiles. Much as I loved Pattaya, I'd sometimes find the afternoons frustrating (and lonely) waiting for 2100 to arrive.

Yes, as others have noted. the rooms all share the balcony and each one has its own table and chairs where we'd breakfast. Copa is much the same but there are only four (?) penthouse rooms. One advantage Copa has is that it doesn't get the glare of the afternoon sun, something that can be extreme at Ambiance. It is true that curtains need to be drawn- Ambiance's are thick and luxurious- for privacy. A neighbour forgot this one early evening, allowing us to see him and his partner in flagrante delicto as we went to dinner. And very cute his visitor was....at least as I far as I could see from the rear.

I'd be interested to know why those members who prefer "muscle-guys" chose Thailand as a destination in the first place. I've always associated Thailand with twinks and it was to meet them I came all those years ago. Others, I know, like ladyboys but I suspect that they are straight. Had I been interested in and heavier-built guys, I'd have gone elsewhere. In fact, just about anywhere other than Asia. Please enlighten me.

We bought our breakfasts. I liked the croissants from Friendship Supermarket, the fruit was available everywhere as was decent (if not exemplary) orange juice. The only minus was the instant coffee in the rooms. However, even in the best hotels we've stayed-in, breakfast coffee is, well, breakfast coffee rather than fresh. Speaking of which, on our first post-Covid visit to Agate the restaurant wasn't open and so we breakfasted in Zing. The coffee there was the best I've had in Thailand for years. Why? simple....we were the only customers in the early morning and so the the coffee was brewed just for us. Charming waitress, too.

The penthouse rooms at Ambiance are the best rooms we've ever had in Thailand. Taking breakfast in the morning sun with a view of the sea and at night watching the action below....I wish I was there!

Sad to see innocent victims. I can understand Thais willing to travel across the globe for work but Israel? Really? They are exploited foreign workers brought into replace the indigenous population whom the Zionists expelled and who had previously been cheap labour. I was visiting Palestine for thirteen years and am continuously amazed by Western ignorance...a wilful ignorance because Biden, Blinken and so on know exactly what sort of violent, racist Occupation is being imposed on the indigenous inhabitants. All based on Biblical legends from 3000BC. They know: and they ignore. Anyway, I really don't wish to get involved in this discussion because I have friends whom I love and who, at this very moment , are in danger from deranged settlers. "I and the public know what all schoolchildren learn; Those to whom evil is done do evil in return." (WH Auden)

PeterRS is spot-on; newbies from the UK or USA will have forums such as this to learn about the dos and don'ts of Thai bars. Back in 1990s I was assisted by an excellent gay guide called "Thai Scene" that ensured I knew all about the game. There were other similar ones. However, non-English speakers without guidance may get it wrong....which is where a decent mamasan earns his money.

Having given-up bar-hopping years ago - P wouldn't be seen dead in one- I find that I miss them. Well, sometimes. I'd love to see the dancing again-not the standing that took its place- but the energetic dancing that some bars once encouraged or even demanded. Then there's the scantly- dressed guys having a good time, teasing each other, angling for offs from customers....even the music which I'd detest in any other circumstance. At least the stuff they played two decades ago. I caught "Broken hearted woman" on You Tube a few weeks ago and did it evoke memories of the late 90s! What was it that Noel coward said about cheap music and its ability to remind us of times passed? Perhaps I'm nostalgic only because it is an activity that recalls my younger days and is no longer appropriate for me.....but I do miss it.

My first guy in Thailand- it was in Pattaya- failed to achieve an erection. My first gay sex experience had only occurred eighteen months previously and I blamed myself entirely. And, as it transpired, wrongly. A sobering thought; that guy must be fifty years old now. Oh dear.

And why not? our generous posters can revel in their kindness and our parsimonious ones in their smartness. Everyone's a winner.

I can recall a few guys who said they were mixed-race, the cutest of whom had an Arabic dad and a Thai mum. Bearing in mind the heroic (if unexpected) contribution of US military personnel to the development of Patpong and Pattaya, and the large numbers of Black GIs, there must have been many children of mixed Thai /American relationships. Thinking back, I can think of a couple whom I was certain had such origins, second or perhaps even third generation. Of course, Songkhla guys naturally have very dark skins (very nice too!) and so skin-colour isn't enough to justify such an assumption..