Londoner

One thing I liked about Pattaya is that the guys who worked in a particular bar are often friends....some of them from the same village who had traveled together to the bright lights. They often lived together, or close to each other and socialised. This meant that the atmosphere in the bars (and I must admit that I'm now talking about the past) was more humorous and friendly. In Bangkok, the guys often live far away from the work-place meeting the other workers only in the bar and so their relationships are less warm. And the bars less vibrant.

Centran...yes, I know the place well. But even more familiar to us is Loyen Garden. I find myself calling it that now. Nearly sixteen years of attempting to encourage the pronunciation of "Royal" have ended in failure; if you can't beat 'em.....

Yes, we saw it last night....thanks.

Ggobkk and I seem to be following each other...first Tarntawan and now Jomtien! We arrived yesterday, after four sun-filled days in Krabi where the absence of gay couples is noticeable as we walk around Aonang. And certainly in our hotel -we are the only gays in that particular village.It is more expensive than the ones we're used to; some would say over-priced. Even so, no one seems to mind a Thai/falang couple, of whom only one is good-looking.Tthe staff in the hotel are welcoming. To be fair, that has been our experience throughout Thailand. Nevertheless it was good to be back among the brethren yesterday evening. Plenty of cute masseurs within yards of our hotel and Dick's Cafe served us the best dinner we've had this trip.. And now we shall look out for the new sign.

Michael; the answer is simple. I met someone in Pattaya sixteen years ago....and without him, I'd have probably stopped coming. We are aware of the scene- in both paces- and like being in a gay environment even if we are not participants. I must confess that I do explore Bangkok the day before he arrives from his home in the north of the country. Hence my comments about Patpong and Babylon.

When one of us has an infection, we pass it on to to others....and it spreads widely and quickly. Some of those affected may have neither the money nor the knowledge to to deal with it.

I've been dividing my time between the two for twenty years. Usually at least 80% of the time in Pattaya....which sums up my preference. I like Pattaya's clearly-defined gay areas and larger number of venues , even if they aren't what they were. Bangkok's have declined even more and I was unimpressed by my first visit to the Patpong gay area last week. One other thing. The Pattaya guys know that that many of their clientele are like to stay on holiday for two weeks or even more, while the Bangkok guys are often meeting-up with short-term visitors. This has an effect on the nature of the assignations, in my view.. I'd hazard a guess that those of us who subsequently developed LTRs did so in Pattaya rather than Bangkok. Babylon is a draw for me; were it not there , I'd probably dispense with Bangkok.

I'm pleased you are enjoying the hotel, ggobkk. Tarntawan has been my Bangkok base for nearly twenty years, my point of entry to Thailand, where I stay for three days, meet-up with my boyfriend and then depart for other places. Bangkok has its thrills, but for me they are short-lived. I was intrigued by the venom of some of the comments elsewhere and when I arrived, I tried to look at the place with an open mind. What would a first-time visitor, without all my emotional baggage, think of it? And I also took until account the views of my boyfriend who has been with me for fifteen of those twenty years and, by now, has wide experience of Thailand hotels, as well as some in neighbouring countries. And I still maintain that it is a good base for those who wish to enjoy the gay scene- at its price. My current hotel in Aonang, Krabi, is a better hotel in many respects and certainly has an attractive setting. But it is twice as expensive

Have just had three pleasant days in Tarntawan. Inquiring about the future, I was told that, after the renovations, the only change will be to the name. The staff remain. The hotel has had some critical comments recently; I can report that the reception and staff were friendly, the rooms as clean as always in my experience and the a/c quiet and effective. I thought some of the criticisms to be OTT, to say the least and noted that Trip Advisor's reviews were generally positive. In other words, I was not alone in my views. I am now In Krabi , staying in a hotel twice as expensive as Tarntawan. Not only is the breakfast nowhere near as good but I'm being charged 450bht pp a day for it. I have to say this though.....the restaurant- on the sea-front with a view of the islands in distance- is rather better than that of Surawong!

The staff are remaining, I understand, and according to Agoda, the pricing will remain much the same.

Ex- Tarntawan clients will be seeking hotels of a similar price. Le Meridien and similar are too expensive and the likes of BBB Inn too cheap. Tarantawan charges around 2500 pn.f

I'm due to arrive next week. And after twenty years of patronage the email I received this morning quoted by ggobkk heralded the end of an era; yes, another one. I've been getting discounts for years- deservedly so in view of my loyalty- and I suspect that that will end. As to the carpets....their distinctive smell always announced to me that I'd finally arrived after fifteen hours of travel and so was strangely welcome. More modern hotels in climates like Bangkok's no longer (in my experience) have them. Rightly so.

One of the advantages of the numerous places around Jomtien Complex is that many (most? all?) of the guys sit outside, making selection easier. There seem to me to be many more guys than at the Pattaya joints. And I've seen some cute ones, too. I hasten to add that I've no experience of any of them! By the way, have you tried hornet and Romeo?

Thanks....sounds ideal for me.

Where exactly is the new Hotmale? Thanks for the update.

BoyzBoyzBoyz in Pattaya is often referred to as "BBB"- for obvious reasons.

Further to Will7272's remark about beer bars and host bars, he is quite correct; being able to sit in Dick's, or at tables at the other bars at street level, was one of my Bangkok pleasures. Watching people - customers, massage staff, guys on their way to work and staff- over a glass of beer was an enjoyable and inexpensive way of spending a couple of hours. To be blunt, I'd lost interest in the go-go bars by about 2007...as soon as go- go dancing was replaced by go-go standing and go-go posing. I hope that the new gay area will accommodate such venues.

Babylon's dark room is pitch-black for about two minutes....and then your eyes adjust and you can make out shapes. You cannot tell whether someone is falang or Asian except by making assumptions based on height and weight!

At Babylon, the hot tub/shower room opens at about 1700. Before then. the dark room is busy from about 1500.

That's a good deal better than I'd have expected.

Glamour? I don't remember any on my first visit in 1997. On that occasion, I knew only Boyztown; Patong (and the Paradise Complex ) compared very badly to it in terms of gay venues available, costs, and- most of all- environment. Much of Pattaya was pretty shabby in those days but the Paradise Complex was, bluntly, dispiriting to visit. I've returned to Phuket with my boyfriend on an number of occasions since and we prefer to spend our time in other parts of the island.

How many punters at the bars visited?

The popularity of gay go-go bars has been declining for twenty years. An owner of one of the biggest and most popular confided me in about 2007, just before he sold-up, that he saw no future in the game. Admittedly, that was before the major Asian influx and a few have certainly been kept alive by straight Chinese tourists who go to look but only spend money on drinks. As the guide said, the apps have removed the need for money-boys to prance around (or nowadays, stand around) in underwear. Some of them do well-enough from their apartments and some don't....but the same was true of go-go dancers. Host bars in Jomtien are coping as are massage joints....but few traditional go go bars have looked busy for years. My impression of Nice in Sunee a couple of months ago - a popular bar that has a devoted if elderly clientele- was that the guys were making their money from services offered on-site rather than offing.

What time did you arrive in Patpong? I hope your trip improves....

I agree that some of the guys are better-looking than their photos suggest. I'm thinking of those photos where the guy is putting on a moody James Dean look or, even more irritating, pulling faces at the camera...sticking out a tongue for instance.,