Londoner

His posts were always those of a man with a gentle and generous spirit.

Gay bars have depended on foreign workers for many years; and the same is true of the Thai economy generally. Cheap, un-unionised, easy to get rid-of, often ill-treated.... now it's all their fault. Who made money out of "illegals" , to use Trump's favourite word? Yes, the workers- but not very much. More went into the pockets of their employers, corrupt officials and politicians. And remember that the first immigration-dodgers who brought Covid into Thailand - in Chiang Rai- were probably Thai women who'd been working as bar-girls for rich Burmese in a posh hotel. Or perhaps the smugglers and enablers. As always, "it's the poor wot gets the blame." It's not as though they wanted to be infected; I suspect that a more likely explanation is that they had family to support. Another example of capitalism exploiting the poor and then blaming them for the consequences.

I thought that Travellerdave, had already clarified this issue...probably. Jomtien and Jomtien Complex are not the same. It is quite possible that the Complex is able to apply particular rules.

I used to have my hair cut regularly in BKK....and about 300 bht was about what I usually was charged. I'd be willing to pay an extra 100bht for a cute guy to see to me! Now, I like the guy in the Complex near Dick's who only charges 100....much the same as in the many places near Tuc Com. Here in London, a basic hair cut , even for OAPs is £10. In my case, it takes less than ten minutes. Thai always barbers attend to me lovingly and with infinite care.

Despite what I wrote earlier, I'd be very upset if Ambiance were to close. And Panorama , too. There are people who worked at the hotel for many years and for whom I have great affection . I remember one of them being in tears when I explained that I would not be returning on that last morning as I left. Thanks to Travellerdave, P and I have had happy times at the Agate...and I can confirm that we've never heard any noise from the Complex . My posting record reveals just how fussy I am about that issue.

I recognise that the bars in Boyztown had been hurting for many years....at least ten, I'd guess and that the sort of gay tourists (like me) that built the gay scene of the 80s and 90s are long gone. However, I continue to feel a deep resentment at what happened between (roughly) 2015 an 2019. Boyztown may have been struggling but it was still alive. The few go go bars had loyal customer bases, as did the Ambiance Hotel, its terrace that those of three bars in the Panorama corner. Then a decision was made to chase the female clientele in BBB followed by the coup de grace, the purchase of LCF. Forgive the personal bitterness in what follows. After twenty years of patronising Ambiance three or four times I year, I spent my last night there two years unable to sleep at gone 0300 due to unbearably loud music from LCR accompanied by the screaming of women. I looked out over the balcony. There were but a few customers but each of them was apparently endowed with astonishingly loud voices and an infinite capacity for banshee-like screaming. With a plane to catch, tired and low, I sat down with P (who'd never had the sentimental attraction to Boyztown that I had) and we decided on the spot that it was the end of Boyztown for us. And we became regulars at the Jomtien Complex. I know for certain that I'm not the only person driven out by the transformation of a gay soi into a very different one. And I'd add that that the change that affected me and others was that it was no longer suitable for those of my generation, nor even of my boyfriend who is nearly forty. The new visitors to the soi were often Chinese and female but it was their youth and the behaviours that accompany youth that eventually lost Ambiance (and Panorama) my custom. I've just re-read the above. And yes; I am getting old.

Firstly , there were more opportunities for older falangs to meet with younger Thais twenty years ago; today's Babylonian Thais tend to be older. And far, far fewer. Secondly, I loved the roof-top bar with its view across Sathorn and as far as Silom. Thirdly, I was younger, too! But I still love Babylon and without it, I would forgo the two or three days I spend in Bangkok before travelling elsewhere.

Vessey is correct ; some of the go go dancers are extremely embarrassed by the appearance of women in the bars. My anecdotes are (appropriately for me) ancient but I recall an Amazon- six-foot, quite pretty, blonde, appearing in Dreamboys (the Pattaya one) and jumping on the podium to join in the dancing. Immediately the cohort of dancers split into two; the gay ones shrivelled into a corner while the the straight ones clustered around her and were duly rewarded. And not financially. It happened also at Funny Boys when a younger and less pretty girl arrived and began snogging one of the dancers. Then they exchanged intimate physical attention. On this occasion, it transpired that only one of the dancers was gay because he rushed off while the rest clustered around her. I should add that I left, too quickly to finish my drink. I was annoyed that I, a punter, had been side-lined by a female intruder. Had she sat and watched I'd have tolerated her but, like the Amazon, she just had to be the centre of attention.

They remind me of the line of guys who used to wait for custom outside the Pan Pacific hotel on Rama 1V. There'd also be a couple outside Macdonald's and Robinson's on the corner of Silom.

I can't see many fish surviving in that stretch of water. We've had this discussion before. What I want, or what you want is not the issue. The fact is that gay Thais i(n particular) ae still dying of hiv infections and it behoves us to help stop the spread. It's a bit like wearing face masks today, even if we find them uncomfortable.

Times have changed. In 1995, sixteen was the legal age for bar-work and even when this changed to eighteen (1996?) the young people who were coming from Isaan and so on probably looked younger than they do today. Improvements in health and diet followed Thaksin's reforms of the early years of this century and , as has happened in the west, resulted in earlier puberty and maturation.

Withdrawn.

Well-done the students....they faced-down the Old Men and won a battle. Winning the war, however, is still along way off.

It is amusing to see the youngsters continuously outwit the Old Men.

Across the nation in fact. About time too. Thais deserve a democracy. And the fact that the demonstrators are predominantly young and middle-class with middle class parents, the chances are that the government won't dare to mow them down in the streets like they did the Red Shirts. As one of the signs said at the Victory Monument, "Who killed the Redshirts?" A rhetorical question; everyone knows who did. And that's why my prayers are with the students.

I had an elderly American friend who found himself in a similar situation and ended up fleeing from Pattaya to Bangkok. The problem was again unfulfilled expectations. Some of the guys invest inordinate hopes in what they may believe- perhaps from the singular experiences of a friend- is a long-term relationship. They make plans, tell their friends and maybe in some cases perhaps even their family, that they "have a falang" and, accordingly, financial problems are at an end. Then comes loss of face, with inevitable consequences. One of P's oldest friends was in a ten-year relationship with a falang ex-pat in Pattaya. Both were working. One day, he came home to find the falang had disappeared, taking with him all his possessions. No note of explanation, nor even a goodbye. Thai/falang relationships are not easy, even when both parties are on the same continent; both take risks, both can be hurt. I don't blame anyone who prefers to stick to short-times. I have to admit that my sixteen year relationship has sometimes been a deeply emotional strain.... on both sides!

In some respects, guys we meet via the apps would probably be more likely to be troublesome. We are usually able to suss-out what we are buying after spending some time in a bar with a guy but when someone whom you've never met knocks on your door..... Nevertheless, I stick with my assessment (never, sadly, having been to Japan) that Thai guys are remarkable for their willingness to engage and do their best to please. Interestingly, they are likely to say the same of us....in most cases. P and I often speak of the Good Old Times (pre 2010 or so in my estimation). He says that he loved his three years in Pattaya in the early 2000s and that the falangs he met treated him well. There are two exceptions to this which he has mentioned more than once, indicating that they upset him deeply. Both were issues of thoughtlessness more than anything else. He is open and generous to a fault and sensitive to anyone not treating him with equal respect. In these times of separation, I am more and more drawn to my happy memories of Thailand and a sense of gratitude to the unique experiences which the Thai people have given me .

I'm rather surprised by some reactions. In my twenty-five years , consisting of nearly eighty stays, half of which involved frantic activity on the scene, I can only think of two questionable guys I met. One was a drug addict , as I later found out, and the other a charlatan in that he never had any intention of fulfilling an agreement made in the bar. I can't believe there is anywhere else in the world where the guys involved in the trade are so honest, genuine and trustworthy.

Indeed, chaq'un a son gout. That's why Thailand is great. All manner of men to suit all tastes.

I was never a fan of the macho-dancer bars in my bar-hopping days. Too many of the guys seemed to think that looking mean and moody was, somehow, sexy. Not to me. Give me cheerful, laughing, playful dancers.....the ones who seemed to be having a good time. Even if they weren't.

I'm wary of reviews of hotels that claim that the reception staff are rude and unhelpful. Judging by the origins of such reports, I have the impression that that some of the complaints are the result of the visitor regarding him/herself to be of a higher class than the receptionist and demanding a level of servility that is inappropriate.

How many Brazilians died yesterday of an illness that doesn't exist? In the race between two racist presidents to claim world leadership in malicious and mendacious idiocy, who's leading? Trump or Bolsonaro?

A touching story. God bless him and all the other protesters. I worry for their prospects, recalling the ugly deaths suffered by previous generations to students in Thailand. The one thing that may help them to survive is the power of social media.

"4am on 19 September, Thailand will be added to the list of countries where self-isolation on return to the UK is not required." A small step but welcome nonetheless.

Who trusts military governments- juntas- run by tired old men who have spent their adulthood giving orders and expecting to be obeyed? Anyone? Wait for midnight arrests and disappearances. And if the movement becomes too popular-like the red-shirts- gunfire.