Londoner

My experience, too.

Yes, I confirm that....but I think it may be a drinks cooler rather than a fridge. In other words, no freezing compartment.

Yes indeed. I was fifty-five when I met P. Looking back, I think I was ready then, after nine years of trawling the bars- very happily, I have to say- I needed something different. Nevertheless, I was certainly not looking for a LTR; I was happy with being a butterfly. It just happened. Phoenixblue's comment struck a chord. One of my oldest friends, sadly now deceased, was an Evangelical Christian with very conservative views on "Biblical Christianity." We never discussed sex. However, a few years after I'd met P, I decided that I wasn't going to conceal from anybody that I now had a partner, even him, and showed him a video which a friend had made of P and me sitting in his room. I wondered what the reaction would be. "We all need love, " he said , "and must take it where we can find it." I was surprised and gratified and looked at him with new eyes. He died single.

The best massages I ever had were from a guy who worked at Copa, over a number of years. Long since retired, he still keeps in touch with me via LINE.

"Bangkok Boy" by Chai Pinit. The memoires (as told to....) of a guy older posters may remember from Soi Twilight. Published by Maverick House.

The only one as I see it.

And one of our posters uses on over-seventies track....I wish I could find it!

I've heard some odd things about the lives of khatoeys in rural Thailand, such as the acceptance of khatoey -only beauty contests in schools and the visibility of young, very young ones. I'm talking primary-school age. And what about khatoeys doing their service as monks? anyone seen this? I have a clear memory of seeing two barely-pubescent khatoeys near Silom. And I am told that there is private language that they often use....a little like Polari which UK posters may recall. P's cousin, whom I've known for sixteen years, is a ladyboy- well he is now. When I first met him he was a cute and rather feminine boy. Over the next decade, he transitioned slowly but surely into a khatoey, though without the surgery. He was mamasan in one of Pattaya's "men for ladies" bar. My last two dinners with them both revealed him as rather feminine gay man again. And I've just heard that back home in Nakom Sawan, he's khatoey again. An interesting life but rather expensive when it comes to clothes and make-up.

I think we'd all agree that no mb should be forced by his mamasan to go with someone with whom he doesn't feel comfortable. I've consistently found Thais to be scrupulous about their own cleanliness.

If I owned a straight bar- God-forbid- I'd be wary about letting my fellow-countrymen in after what I saw once in Soi 6. On my first visit in '95, I'd clutch in my hand a copy of Michael Nottcut's "Thai Scene" wherever I went. This provided the only written advice- and it was d**n good advice - that I had received about how to enjoy the bar-scene and how to treat the guys we meet. So how do first-time tourists learn if they haven't access to such advice? Common humanity perhaps , but somehow I'm not sure whether Indian visitors even have access to any gay sites about Thailand in their own languages. I have my own reasons for getting very hot under the collar when our hosts are mistreated and I won't excuse lack of manners or humanity....so what is to be done? From what I saw in July, the some hotels and businesses depend on Indian customers.

One thing that surprised me about my July visit after two years plus away was how dominant Indian tourists were in the South Pattaya district. And how few I saw elsewhere, such as in the JC, the malls, the restaurants and the beaches. They seem to like being in groups, invariably male-only, and usually between the ages (I guess) of between thirty and fifty. They seem to do a lot of just standing around. How did they spend their time in Pattaya? Certainly not in gay bars- as far as I could see. Any ideas? and, by the way, there are a number of Indian restaurants in the South Pattaya area which, when we passed them in the evening, were entirely empty. Where do these guys eat?

I haven't been to Koh Samui since 1998. I was single then and, although I liked the island, the boat trips and my hotel on the beach, five days was enough and I was thrilled to arrive back in BKK. The gay scene was barely visible, though the lady boy scene was....too visible for my taste. You are right; you'll need a friend. P and I have booked-up for March. I'll be interested to see what changes have occurred in those twenty- five years.

That's excellent advice. I recall only two occasions during my Butterfly Days when I incurred the wrath of mbs; both of them claimed that I'd promised to see them and failed to do so. Some guys are short of money and live day-to- day and so their sensitivity on this issue is understandable. I learnt to be more careful with my casual remarks.

HiV? Treatment yes, but cure, no. A lifetime disability, even with the best treatment. The risks are probably low but practitioners should be aware.

It's available on Amazon. UK posters may recall the Gay Men's Press which, sadly, closed about twenty years ago. It had a superb list of gay novels, many of which are difficult to come by now. Davidson's book is more about his travels as a journalist than his sexual experiences... his time in pre-war Germany is particularly interesting , as are his dealings with the UK government in Cyprus when he bravely revealed the torture our forces dished-out . The sexual escapades are mentioned rather than described. Its the autobiography of a journalist who was gay rather than of a gay man who was a journalist.

Thanks.... interesting. I wonder how much of pre-mass tourism to Thailand (if any) had a sexual motivation? In his autobiography, (The World, the Flesh and Myself) the journalist and foreign correspondent Michael Davidson found a more welcoming attitude to his sexuality in Asia (specifically Bali, Malaya, Burma and Japan) than in the UK. I have heard it argued that there is a religious element to this, in that far-eastern faiths are less masculinity-orientated than the monotheistic ones which dominate the West and Middle-East.

The Bangkok sex-scene which so many enjoy ( and yes, I know the Thais were doing it well before us) owes its success to the American soldiers on R &R from Vietnam, turning Khun Patpong's banana plantation into...well, whatever it is now. And then, requiring a beach as well as bars, Pattaya from fishing village to Commercial Sex Capital of the World. Indeed, where would prostitution be without the contributions of soldiers on leave? or just running away? Sensible warriors, like Alexander the Great, took the brothels with them on their expeditions.

Yes.... Lucky S, that's the one. As far as Soi Twilight is concerned, a couple of years later, it had Chardonnay, Blue Star and a couple of others opposite (New Man?) plus a short-time hotel. In that glorious, first trip I took to BKK, it was where I had my most interesting times. Blue Star was unique in that it had two separate troupes of gogo dancers, one very twinkish, the other more manly. They took it turns to strut their stuff, combining occasionally for a naked show. I recall that the twinks were often shy and kept their hands strategically-placed while the other guys let it all hang-out. Blue Star was where I dropped my wallet and was chased along the soi by one of the waiters who returned it to me. An unexpected and significant moment because, thereafter, I was impatient with falangs who claimed that the guys we meet aren't trustworthy.

It's because my life is boring here that I strive to get away from it....to Thailand!

Yes, me too. It occurs to me that our younger posters will look at the map and turn green with envy when they see what was available. long ago. What the map doesn't show of course is that the hosts in the bars were more eager and welcoming and that the go go dancers actually danced. I agree with floridabob that we are fortunate to have better technology now- not that I am able to use it- but, bluntly, it doesn't compensate for what has gone for ever.

AKA Khun Bar. I think it had dropped the "sweet cigar" title. Perhaps a response to Bill Clinton's (alleged) proclivities. I suspect this subject may be boring some readers and so, as a final comment dragged unwillingly from memory, I recall that the name of the bar in question was related to that of Super A. You know, like Super B......

There was indeed; and a guy there has the honour of being the first ever Bangkok guy that I offed. The bar was in the soi leading to Super Lek....I think. Surely there must be an old-timer or two who can inform me as to what the bar directly opposite Super A was called?. A further memory. I bought the Michael Nottcut guide in 1995 for my first visit to Thailand. The sleazy bar was given a detailed description. About three or four later an up-dated version was published which I still have. The bar in question is not mentioned.

I remember Super Lek but it was farther along the soi and , as GWminUS says, had shows. The one that Michael Notcutt, the estimable author of Thai Scene mentions was directly opposite Super A and was under the same management. I suspect that it was long gone by 2003.

Wasn't there a bar opposite, with the same ownership, back in prehistoric times? I recall it being considered even more sleazy than Super A in my Thai Scene gay guide circa 1997.

Super A was the first bar I left without finishing- or even starting- my drink. It was 1997 and my first ever visit to Bangkok. In those days, if memory serves, it was upstairs, above its later location. At the signal from the mamasan , as I sat down-the only customer- the guys, about twenty of them, removed their briefs and started pleasuring themselves. They were doing it for me, for me alone. Embarrassingly, I was the centre of attention. It was all too much for an innocent newbie such as me and so I made my excuses and left.