Londoner

Only because you are a "daddy"!

Our recommendation for Thai food is Dick's Cafe. Its brother in Soi Twilight is much-missed. Good prices, extensive menu. A good place to sit and enjoy the passing scene , particularly now that there more venues across the soi.

I love two very different Pattayas; the one I visited from 1995 until- 2006 the one which persuaded me to take early retirement and the consequent financial "hit"- and the one I shall be returning to shortly, yet again. And they are very different. Pattaya #1 was all about go go bars, enjoying evenings with numerous guys, some of them spectacularly handsome, watching the late show at Throb (even Cockpit back in the day) and having a drink in Panorama or Corner Bar with my now sadly- deceased American expat buddy. Plenty of laughs, many of them resulting from his irrepressibly salacious anecdotes, some of which were true. And sometimes his behaviour. My day began at 10.00am and ended at 0200 as the lights in Boyztown or Sunee were being turned-off. Daytime in Pattaya #2 begins at 0800 with a leisurely breakfast, continuing with a swim in the hotel's pool and a walk along Jomtien beach. Bars have been replaced on our to-do list by restaurants. Questions about which go go bar has the cutest twinks are now replaced by discussions as to whether Central's MK is better than the one in Terminus 21, and where the best papaya salad is to be found. Evening drinks are on the room's balcony overlooking the waterfall at Agate, not in a bar. And bed is at 2200. And here's the thing. The experiences of my two Pattayas are different and yet each gives, or once gave me, exactly what is needed - socially, emotionally and, yes, sexually. There can be few resorts in the world that can offer so much to people like us and continue to do so as we age and our desires and needs change. A guy in Amsterdam's Blue Boy Bar (a place many will recall) told me about Pattaya in 1995 after an £80 encounter, when I had just come out. I shall always be grateful to him, as well as to the denizens of Pattaya and its guys (not all of them cute, but enough), my old friend , and of course my partner, whom I miss desperately when I'm not in Thailand.

Yes. My first two trips gave me only five nights in Thailand... the journey was not much short of twenty hours each way. It was tough. But that's work for you. I solved the problem by taking early retirement. The best decision I ever made.

That was charming. And a complement to you.

I recall reading about the "sniff kiss", apparently a relic or reflection of the mother/ baby relationship but, in all honesty, never encountered it. Come to think of it, my impression is that kissing may not be as common among gay Thai males as it is here in the UK.

The term "ladyboy" has a huge variety of meanings in Thailand, some of which are pejorative. My boyfriend's cousin, who worked in Pattaya, has moved through various representations of the term since I first met him seventeen years ago. In 2006, he was an attractive and highly-popular go go boy, a twink, very much a bottom, in Boyztown. As time went on, his demeanour and mode of speech (according to P) became more feminine and later included khatoey argot. As time wore on, he sometimes dressed as a woman, wore female jewelry and wore his hair as a female. By about 2018, at least when he met with P and me , he had reverted to masculine dress, perhaps in deference to us (and perhaps the other diners in the restaurant!) though I was told that his speech was still that of a khatoey. On the last few occasions we met, he was back where he started, dressing as a male, if eccentrically. And now retired from the Pattaya scene in his forties, he's a gay Thai farmer. P is delighted with this latest transformation. He felt that his cousin's transition to ladyboy had placed a barrier between them. He's still a handsome guy, I have to admit. And neither P ( who has known him since they were children) nor I can explain any of this, though his relatively successful career on the stage in shows perhaps contributed to his journey.

Nor have I ever had a problem of this nature, though I don't leave money out due to my Sunday School teaching which abhorred tempting the young. Something about mill- stones around the neck. There are sometimes- or at least there were back in the day- when some guys were genuinely (and fearfully) hungry as were their friends. No worries about my phone; no Thai would be seen dead with my cheapo.

That's the problem....one of the lessons I learned as a newbie was that the most stunning dancers weren't necessarily the best companions....and certainly not the best in bed. If they know their value- the certainty of an off- they may provide a poorer service. What annoyed me was rushing out the door after the final act of- in my case- the comedy. A couple of times not even bothering to shower. OK, they are professionals and are there to make money but as the motto of Winchester School has it, "Manners maketh man."

An old ex-pat mate of mine, sadly now deceased, had a prodigious appetite for twinks. A kindly guy but assertively "top" and perhaps a little boastful of his prowess in that department. Suddenly, between two of my visits, his interests changed to bottoming, not for the hunky BKK boys that some like, but for the more twinkish. Even once to service a lady boy. I was genuinely astounded but it wasn't long before I discovered (thanks in part to forums like this) that this is a common transition for men as they get older.

Really? unless it has changed radically in the past few years, it has never been anything other than welcoming. Perhaps you are referring to the Old Problem of young mbs? Only once was I approached in a soi and a "no thanks" ended the conversation. And that was twenty years ago. Anyway, the problem was effectively stamped-out years ago. What else worries you? surely not crime? I'd be fascinated to hear the "horror stories". I recall a serious fight in a host bar between two of the workers...and nothing else. The creeping darkening of the sois certainly was an issue. The closure of the shisha bars was disastrous for us; the customers weren't (to my knowledge) looking for the same things as us, but bright lights and people sitting around chatting, watching football on Tv and so on brightened the area up. Empty buildings are not welcoming. Once they create the ambience of an area, other businesses struggle.

To be honest, it wasn't much in the 90s. I recall being bitterly disappointed on my first visit (1997, I think) compared with Pattaya and BKK. Boy69 is right; prices were more BKK than Pattaya.

Yet, in the late nineties when I first "came out", it was to Amsterdam that I went for weekends. Blue Boy was one of three similar establishments that gave me my first commercial experiences. Indeed , it was one its cute denizens who told me about Pattaya. A few months later, I was there....and Amsterdam was no longer on my list!

A few words about Banana would be appreciated. I sat for a drink there a couple of months ago, just to watch the Soi4 drift by, and didn't get the impression that there were hosts, shows...or anything much. Perhaps I was too early?

I know of one guy to whom this happened. He had a shock when he turned around and saw what was happening. Even worse; he later discovered on SM that the guy was hiv+.

I am one of those, having had my first gay experience at the age of forty-five. It was Thailand that saved me, first of all as an energetic butterfly for nine years, and then by affording me the opportunity to meet the only love of my life nearly twenty years ago. And while I regret those lost years, I wonder if I would have appreciated my later experiences so deeply- or even afforded them- as a young man. There are others like me. One of the aspects of Boyztown in the nineties I liked most was that , for the first time in my life, I found myself among brothers. One guy I met was in his seventies. HIs wife of forty plus years had just died and within weeks he was there with me, on the terrace of Panorama, watching the go go dancers sashay past on their way to work. Whenever I saw him during the rest of my stay he was hand-in-hand with one of them. Like me, he had found love- or at least fun- late in his life....but not too late.

No it doesn't. Thirty minutes or so. That's enough time for a shower!

I have a weakness for historical reviews of the scene and so thanks PeterRS. I still have Michael Notcutt's "Thai Scene", my gay Lonely Planet on my first visit in the mid-nineties. And yes, the Rome story is well-covered there. Xtreme was also an interesting venue. It deserved better audiences/clients because the dance group worked so damn hard. I compared it with the less-talented but more popular Throb in Pattaya; the latter had a lot of humour while Xtreme's choreography was rather too intricate for me. I regretted its passing nevertheless. Boy69's mention of Rome in 1998 interests me....I thought it had closed by then. I'm sure it wasn't there on my first visit to Soi4 in the summer of '97. But memory plays tricks....

Smile.

Indeed they have....a four seater! Rarely-used. We saw it in action a few weeks ago, the first time we'd seen it move. But you're right; it's there!

I've always found a good fantasy to be the safest, easiest and cheapest answer to such problems.

Thanks in particular for the photos...you chose wisely. I'm probably something of a bore about Agate but we love that place. The rooms are smaller than we'd like but well appointed -the lack of a comfortable chair seems to be de rigueur even in more expensive hotels nowadays- but the staff....so friendly and helpful. As for Tarntawan, I cannot pretend to be objective but I've stayed there on about sixty occasions- about forty as a couple- and find its location unbeatable. including it's lack of noise from Surawong. With prices generally going-up, these hotels remain excellent value.

I've just been re-reading Michael Burchall's book about the founding of Boyztown back in the 1980s. One of the issues to which he often returns is the co-operation between the bar-owners, the friendships, the mutual support, and how it enabled the soi and its scene to thrive. When we were in Ambiance and a particular bar was holding all-night street parties that attracted few people but inconvenienced both guests in the hotel and other people who wanted to chat with friends and possible offs, I was told by the then owners that it was made clear that such parties weren't good for their business. But to no avail. in other words, there was competition rather than co-operation. In the days of Jim Lumsden and Kevin Quill- and previously those of Michael Burchall- the owners met and discussed BT as an entity. Out of such meetings, the "Boyztown" signs (still there) were purchased, street lighting and parking was discussed and the Gay Pride festivals were established. What came later-every bar for itself- just didn't work and contributed to the soi's demise.

I maintain that three noisy bars in Boyztown contributed enormously to its sad demise by the effect that they had on the hotels. It's something that I shall never forgive; driven away from our favourite location and favourite hotel by the selfishness of those bars, which weren't even necessarily catering for the gay community. I hope that JC doesn't go the same way. We love Agate but the JC isn't, and never will be, anything but a shadow of Boyztown in its vibrant prime. To ensure that we are not disturbed at night, we always stipulate that the room faces the swimming pools. And we've never been disturbed. However, we're not bar-goers and so I cannot comment on what's happening at the bars themselves....though I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't be happy if music curtailed conversation, as it used to sometimes in Boyztown. Bars should be for the customers, not the staff.

They didn't realise; simple as that. Agate's prices are good and it's relatively close to the beach where they spend their time, not in the bars. In the evenings the more affluent ones decamp to the malls. I have no idea where the Russian families who shared Agate with us went. Come to think of it, if they turn left on leaving the hotel down that little passage that leads to the main road, they could even miss Soda et al. That only leaves the two handsome guys enjoying breakfast to remind them of what they're missing! Ok, one handsome guy.