Gaybutton

Maybe it's time to stop worrying about what others may think - unless you want your life to continue being unhappy. If it were me and I came out to my friends, but they refuse to understand, then I'd say they were never real friends in the first place. If that happens, why not just drop them and move on to the life you really want. That's what I did and I've never regretted it. Some understood and we remain friends to this day. Others, to hell with them. I would do it again without hesitation. I hope you'll do the same.

According to a Google search: "There are an estimated 15,000 foreign retirees in Pattaya, according to police Col. Khemmarin Pissamai" Just how many of that number consists of gay expat retirees - I have no idea. Your guess is as good as anybody's. I think it is an exercise in futility to try to guess how many that might be. Too many factors and variables.

It is right in the middle of an area highly popular with people from India and that is who they primarily cater to. Many Indian restaurants and shops in the surrounding area. I have no idea what their policy is about room "guests" if you want to bring in a young gent or whether to expect any awkwardness about it. I don't know anyone who has ever stayed there and I recall no mention of it on any of the boards. If that is what you're looking for, then it's a good choice.

Plenty more other than only Sunee Plaza. Some were Thai owners. I have no idea what became of any of them. Some farang owners are still around. Some returned to their home counties. Some died. One or two might be in prison. Others seem to have simply vanished from the face of the earth.

I'd say the reasons you listed plus your "etc". All kinds of reasons and most left without saying anything to me anyway. I imagine money problems may have had a part in many decisions. You name it - everything from failed business ventures to relationship problems to simply not liking the lifestyle here. If I were asking the question you're trying to ask, my post would be, "If you tried living in Thailand, but eventually left, why did you leave?" If anyone on this board fits that category, seems to me they would be the ones to ask rather than me. Ok, so I'll post the question: If anyone reading this post tried living in Thailand, but eventually left, why did you leave?

Of course not. Living in Thailand is not for everyone. I certainly would not recommend living in Thailand at all unless you know what you're doing and know what you're getting into. Going to Thailand for holidays is nowhere near enough to make a life-changing decision. A holiday in Thailand is very different from living in Thailand. I would recommend living in Thailand for at least 6 months before making a final decision. And make sure you maintain an "escape route" in case it doesn't work out. I have no regrets about living in Thailand and I would do the same thing tomorrow. Despite our complaints and problems I love it here. My expat farang friends would probably say the same. After all, there are plenty of complaints and problems no matter where you live. But we have also seen many who tried to live in Thailand, but ended up leaving when it just didn't work out for them. In short, don't make a hasty decision that you can't easily get out of.

Somebody must like them because as far as I can tell every one of these shows include ladyboys. If the venues were not profiting by these shows, then why would they present them? The ladyboys in these shows are one of the main reasons I don't go. Even on the rare occasions when I think the show is one I can enjoy, the ladyboys ruin it for me. Sorry, but spending my time and money watching these zero talent ladyboys is not my idea of enjoying the evening, Include me out. "I hope you ENjoy - your eeeeveNING" - Bela Lugosi (Dracula)

Maybe one reason is because if the relationship is already working well, for both, then why change it? "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

I agree with every word you wrote in your post. And yet over the years many of us have seen it happen time and time again and that is why I keep warning about it, in hopes the next one to fall into the trap won't be anyone who reads this board. It is also common for farang to leave everything they have to a Thai go-go boy. I've seen several times the farang passed away and the boy got a very substantial amount of money, enough to support him and his family for many years. And yet in most instances within a year the boy was broke and right back in the bars - hoping to hit another jackpot. The better educated they are and the better kind of job they have, the less likely that is to happen, but most farang who meet the boy of their dreams while on a 2 or 3 week holiday meet only bar boys. Their own dream seems to have come true and they end up going to extraordinary lengths and tolerate things they would never tolerate from anyone else in trying not to lose it. While they hope to walk hand-in-hand into the sunset and live blissfully happily ever after, does anyone need me to tell how often it actually ends up working out that way?

I'd like to know where he got that from. Maybe he's right, but i would like to know his source. I've never heard any such thing. There is a royal residence on Pratumnak, rarely used, but I have no idea what that would have to do with Jomtien Complex which is nowhere near. Does that mean all of Jomtien is royal land extending at least from Pratumnak to the beach? The Jomtien Complex venues pay their rent to whom? Again, maybe he's right, but that makes no sense to me. Why would royal land mean just about anything goes except go-go bars? If it really is royal property that doesn't allow go-go bars, then why don't the venues try petitioning to get that revoked? Nothing to lose by trying.

I can agree with that. In Brazil I spent most of my time in rural areas, but even in Rio it was hard to find anyone who spoke more than a word or two of English.

Someone has. I have not spent time in Colombia or Mexico, but before discovering Thailand I spent quite a bit of time in Argentina and especially Brazil. Brazil to the point I became very good at speaking Portuguese. Would you like to tell me again that I'm making assumptions? I go by what I personally experienced, but I'm not going to get into a debate about where guys are hairy . . .

I agree. That makes the most sense. Also, many massage boys are on the apps.

"Oh, I don't like Gauls. Hairy." - Peter Ustinov (Batiatus), 'Spartacus'

Nowhere in particular - just about anywhere. You might be surprised at how many Thais speak acceptable to good English and can read English. I'd say your best chance are venues that attract farang. For example, a farang restaurant is likely to have more good English speakers than a pushcart vendor.

These responses are why I think it is best to try everything Pattaya has to offer - Boyztown, Sunee Plaza, Jomtien Complex, the apps, just cruising around, venues that cater to everyone, not primarily gays - whatever you can come up with - until you find what works best for you - or if nothing else, the least of the evils. I also always suggest if you see a boy somewhere around town who attracts you, even if you are in a shopping mall or something, just start with hello and a smile. If he rejects you then he rejects you. You'll survive. But sometimes it works. I compare that tactic to fishing. Some will get away, but every once in a while you reel one in. You might consider making some cards or just carrying around a slip of paper with your name and telephone number and handing it to the boy if he seems responsive to your hello approach. It doesn't even have to be your real name. You never know - maybe you'll get a call. And don't forget about boys working in shops, 7-Elevens, waiters in restaurants, delivery boys, etc. The point is there are many more ways than only the bars to meet boys. I actually prefer those ways - I like the challenge of it. Over the years I've had many successes. And if I can do it, for sure so can you, even if you don't speak much Thai. I didn't always speak nearly as much Thai as I can speak now. I realize living here means I have much more time than people on holiday who want to get everything in before they have to return home, but it is an option to try. The days of being really picky seem to be over, hopefully only for the time being. I think if the upcoming high season is really successful, that can be the beginning of a true comeback and perhaps will attract some of those rice farm twinks back to the bars. If the current crop of boys just doesn't suit you, I suppose you'll either have to settle for second best or do without. Even under current circumstances, if there is anywhere better than Thailand to search for your type, I'd like to know where . . .

Unless one wants to go to the few remaining go-go bars, Jomtien Complex is the only fully gay nightlife scene left in Pattaya. Until and unless there is a comeback of the Boyztown-Sunee Plaza go-go bars, what other gay nightlife scene is there? I truly am hoping for a major push to allow go-go bars in Jomtien Complex. Assuming an ordinance really does exist prohibiting it, then it's time for that ordinance to be repealed. It also could be that the beer bar owners are opposed to go-go bars in the Complex for fear they would lose too many customers. I don't think that would be a valid fear because when Sunee Plaza was in its heyday there were plenty of go-go bars and plenty of beer bars. In case no one noticed, many of the go-go bars failed long before the beer bars started failing. If I were interested in opening a gay go-go bar in Jomtien Complex, I would hire a Thai lawyer and also head for City Hall to see if there really is such an ordinance or not. I think we all assume it exists only because for many years that has been the assumption, but I have never seen it and I don't know anybody who has. I would first get all the legal ducks in a row, obtain whatever licenses and permits are necessary, and if it turns out to be perfectly legal in Jomtien Complex, start hiring boys

If it is Billy, I hope he keeps his promise about buying up the bars and turning them into go-go boy sleaze bars. Sounds good to me . . .

What you read is the way it was in Pattaya pre-Covid. Not anymore. Boyztown has go-go bars, but they are comparatively expensive and don't appeal to everybody. Sunee Plaza is down to just a couple go-go bars. They too don't appeal to everybody, but are much less expensive. Walking through Sunee Plaza these days is like walking through a darkened dead zone. Loads of bars - most of them closed The women in go-go bars were almost all Chinese. Now there are none. Also, not everybody needs or is all that interested in go-go bars in the first place. I think Jomtien Complex is so much more popular now because there are many more boys working there than Boyztown and Sunee Plaza. Also Jomtien Complex is alive with activity, beer bars, restaurants, close proximity to shops, close proximity to the beach. It simply is much more fun there. While it is true no go-go bars are permitted there (and in all my years here I have never seen a regulation that actually prohibits them), I know of no regulation that says the boys can't take off their shirts if they want to and occasionally some do. People have to accept that much of the Pattaya gay scene paradigm has changed. How much of it and how soon it might change back is another question and remains to be seen. Don't expect much to change any time soon. Anybody besides me remember that crazy nut case, Bad Boy Billy? He swore he was going to buy up all the vacant bars and turn them into go-go sleaze bars. He's another one who disappeared from the scene and the boards. A few years ago he tried to get back on my board, but mean old Gaybutton wouldn't let him. Sometimes I wonder if I made a mistake by that. Oh well - I hope my curmudgeonliness didn't cost Pattaya a bunch of gay sleaze go-go bars that might have put Eros to shame. I also believe that if enough pressure is applied and enough money finds its way into the right hands, the day will come when Jomtien Complex finally does permit go-go bars. The best way for you to research is to check out all three areas for yourself and decide which works best for you.

Yes. I wouldn't wait around very long.

I agree, although who knows how crowded it might be this year? I am guessing not all that much. But prices will be lower. The closer to Christmas and New Year, the higher the prices and less chances of getting the accommodations you prefer unless you book well in advance.

If Thailand closes the borders, how are they going to go home? Wouldn't they be stuck here like everybody else? Then they would really need money . . .

I don't know if this story is one you haven't heard before. I've posted it before and it is one of my personal favorites. I knew a money boy who used to carry 5 telephones with him. When I asked him why, his answer was he has 5 different farang, so he carries a different phone for each of them. He has long since disappeared from Pattaya. I always wondered what he would do if he managed to reel in several more farang. In my opinion it is not a question of whether a boy is trying to scam you. The bar boys are money boys. Every one of them would love to have a farang benefactor. They've hit the jackpot if they meet a farang who will not only support them, but their families too. For most of the boys, their families are their first priority. They'll starve before failing to send money to the family each month. That is virtually ingrained into their culture. If you're going to support any of these boys because you want to "pull him out of poverty", that's your choice. First, I don't know what makes you think you are his only farang. Sometimes you are and sometimes the boy has several. If he is one who has several, do you think he's going to tell you about it? If you want to help the boy of your dreams - the one you met on your 2 or 3 week holiday, the safest thing to do is give him a very substantial amount of money when you are ready to leave to go back home - to your world of reality - don't give him your contact information (unless you want to deal with constant pleas for more money, and believe me that is exactly what is most likely to happen), tell him goodbye and maybe you'll see him next trip. Again, unless you are willing to take over full financial responsibility for his life, you're not going to pull him out of poverty, you're not going to significantly change his life, you're not going to become his rags to riches Horatio Alger story, you're not going to become his hero, but you will lose being the one in control and you will end up spending a hell of a lot of money, probably much more than you anticipated, and eventually you will have no choice but to end it with him. That is what nearly always happens. It is not the exception. And again, do you truly believe you are doing him any favors by removing his incentive to find a good job? He can't be a bar boy forever. What becomes of him when the money stops rolling in? Has he found a good career or is it right back to the rice farm? Then comes your next holiday. What are you going to do on that holiday when you meet another "boy of your dreams", go through the same thing all over again or by then will you have learned your lesson - the hard way? Bottom line: Use your head.

I see nothing wrong with helping if that's what you want to do. The trick is to set the limits at the outset and be prepared for him to try everything he can think of to keep the money rolling in. There are two ways to do it: 1. Give him a substantial amount once - just once. Make it clear that is all you will do and he is not to ask for more for any reason. I would again make it clear if he violates that, then he won't get it and the communication ties will be cut. When he runs through that money, now he's on his own. Let the onus be on him, not you. It may be difficult to stick to that, nevertheless it must be done. I think that's the easiest way. 2. At the outset let him know you will help him for whatever period of time you choose. Once a month for one month, two months, six months, a year - whatever you decide. Tell him how much you'll give him and not one baht more. Again, let him know when that time has ended, it will stay ended and, again, after that he's on his own. If he tries to get you to give more and/or extend the time period, the moment he does that any further money will stop. Unless you are willing to take financial responsibility for his life, I don't know any other way to handle it - or at least no other way I would handle it. It is one thing to be generous and willing to help somebody. It is quite another to let yourself become a schmuck. You have to be firm. If you can't do that then you're right - don't help him in the first place. Besides, you're not really doing him any favors by removing the incentive to support himself. Don't forget, your name is Olddaddy (or whatever name he knows you by). Your name is not ATM . . .

How about that! Walking Street became Running Street . . .