Gaybutton

There are those who think so. Who says the only place to have booze is at a bar? Besides, if people think I'm going to show up, probably nobody will come. My own mother once threw a birthday party for me. She wanted everyone to have a good time. For that reason I wasn't invited . . .

Nothing is wrong with it if you are planning something more formal such as GT suggests in his post above and you're willing to do the legwork. What I've been talking about was for something entirely informal. What I've been talking about is something like, "I'm going to be at Ganymede Saturday at 10:00pm. All board members are welcome to come for a pay-for-your-own meet-and-greet." By the way, to avoid confusion, That's just an example. Saturday I doubt I'll even be in town. What GT has in mind is something at which he intends to foot the bill for drinks and have food served. Yes, obviously something like that requires advance planning. Invitation-only is the only way I know of to avoid freeloaders crashing the party. That means doing it somewhere other than at a bar, such as someone's home, apartment, a meeting room, or restaurant unless he wishes to rent out an entire bar for the evening. Quite frankly, I don't know why everyone seems to think a meet-and-greet has to be at a bar at all.

On the face of it, I don't think it's such a good idea. There are too many problems with it. What some people would prioritize, others would not. And how would you rate the boys? A lot of people love the well defined muscular types. For others, that's just what they dislike. It's too subjective. Not only that, but a lot of these boys change bars quite often. How would you rate a bar that would get high marks for nearly everything on your list, but here comes the pushy mama-san to spoil it all. In my opinion there is only one way to rate a bar. You either like it or you don't.

Very good idea. You get to supply the name tags . . .

I'm not putting down anybody. How hard is it to say "Hello, I'm here for the meet-and-greet."? If somebody is too shy to do that, then he'll either have to get over it or miss the meet-and-greet. What takes planning? If I were to say I'd like to have a meet-and-greet Thursday at Two Guys at 3:00pm, you either come or you don't. What beyond that needs planning? What do you need, balloons, engraved invitations, and a caterer? Like I said, maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see any problem about someone who wants a meet-and-greet to just go ahead and do it. People will either show up or they won't. What's the hard part?

Can you tell us a little more about it? I, for one, am not familiar with it. Where is it?

That's very simple. That's why I used to do these things on the terrace of The Ambiance. We would all sit round-table style, which gave everyone the same status and there was never any problems for people who others did not know. If a meet-and-greet takes place at a bar, if "newbies" are too shy or socially inept to be able to introduce themselves, that's their problem. I don't see it as breaking into a closed group. The whole point of a meet-and-greet is for openness. I don't understand what you mean by having some sort of container in which to put in a few baht to buy refreshments. Like what? Who decides what refreshments to buy? You better not make it me because if I'm sent out to bring back refreshments, then everyone is going to be chowing down on a few bags of fried grasshoppers and moth larvae. I don't understand why people keep wanting to make this complicated. If someone is interested in doing a meet-and greet, all anyone needs to do is write a post saying let's have a meet-and-greet and say where to meet, what day, and what time. If people want to come, they come. If they don't or can't, then they don't. There's always the next one. Everybody pays his own bill. No donation boxes that make people feel obligated to contribute. If you want to drink, you pay your own bill. If you want to eat, order your own food and pay for it yourself. It seems so simple to me. Am I missing something?

I think everyone is well aware of the concern we have expressed for years about the bars that employ under-age boys. I don't see anything wrong with also discussing other aspects of the goings-on. Now, as for a "bar-quality-system," I don't recall any discussions about that and I don't even know what you mean by it. If you explain it, we can discuss it.

I'm going to give it a try soon. I haven't yet. But I must say that to date the best hamburgers I've ever had in Thailand were cooked on a grill at a very nice party, poolside, at beautiful home just behind Cherry's. I think you may have met the homeowner. I believe if you ask him very nicely he just might give you an opportunity to try them some time . . .

I'll give you three guesses.

I'm starting to wonder just what that 1300 baht fee was supposed to cover or even if that was the actual fee the 'agent' was charged. The Pattaya Daily News article mentions the 1300 baht. The Pattaya One article does not. Maybe the reporter didn't get it right. But assuming it is accurate, the way the article is worded it could be that 1300 baht was charged because apparently the agent specifically asked for an under-age boy. Maybe the younger they are, the more they charge. I hope there will be follow up articles for a change. I'm curious about whether the 1300 baht fee was supposed to cover renting the room and a tip for the boy, whether asking specifically for an under-age boy meant the bar charged more, or whether the mama-san lined his own pocket with it, or what. I'm also curious about just how old the under-age boy actually was.

I view that criticism with great contumely . . .

I'm glad we're going to keep this simple instead of making it complicated.

You must be very slow on the uptake.

Actually she was quite familiar with it. She greatly approved of my methods, especially the part about how I quickly get rid of the idiots.

Several years ago a boy took me to see a Mae Chee. These are the Buddhist equivalents of nuns. The Mae Chee was a fortune teller and spoke excellent English. She wanted to know my birthday, the day of the week I was born, my age, and all kinds of other things. Then she took out a book of what appeared to me to be some form of hieroglyphics and started doing calculations based on what was in the book and the information I gave. After that she wanted to read my palm. Then, when she was through with all that she looked at me and said, sharply, "You no good!" I asked why she said that. "You drink too much. You no good!" Anyone who knows me also knows that among my litany of faults, drinking is not one of them. "Mae Chee," I said. "I hardly ever drink and I never get drunk." Her response was, "Well, you do something no good and you have to stop!"

You mean the gossip queen rumor mill is in full force? My goodness, what a surprise! As a matter of fact, I believe it is so rare that it is non-existent. I think any foreigner, no matter how long he has lived in Thailand, even if he was born and raised here, who claims to really fully understand the goings on is either a liar or a fool.

There are various ways of spelling it in English, of course, but it's squid. For the record, I didn't state that. I guessed that. What I said was, "If that 1300 baht figure is correct, my guess is that was what was asked for both the room rental and the 'tip' for the boy." I have very rarely gone to Nice Boys at all. I think I've been in there a grand total of twice. I never offed a boy from Nice Boys. Until this incident came about I didn't even know they had short-time rooms, let alone how much they charged to take a boy to the short-time room. In other words, I have no way of knowing what the 1300 baht fee was all about. All I can do is guess. As for the rest of your post, I sympathize with your concerns. The problem is until certain bars clean up their act and stop hiring under-age boys, then yes, there is an element of risk that you could be caught up in a raid. The risk is minor, but it's there. I doubt we'll ever see much of a change unless something drastic happens. What it boils down to is you either take the risk or you don't go to the bars. If you are convinced that every bar hires under-age boys, and by the way that's not true, then if you want to be certain to avoid the possibility of being caught up in a raid, then you can't go to the bars at all. I don't know what other alternative you have. You won't get into legal trouble by simply being present in a go-go bar that employs under-age boys. It's the bar's problem, not yours. No one, even the police, expects you to check the IDs for all the boys working in a bar before setting foot in a bar. However, in Thailand the police do have the authority to raid bars, check farang for valid passports and visas, force farang to either submit to a urine test or face arrest, and permit the press to take photos and publish them. Since this incident is the first time I'm aware of the police forcing farang customers to submit to a urine test in the Pattaya gay bars, we won't know if this is a new trend until there have been more raids in which the same thing happens. Of course, even then we may not know for some time. Even if the police start raiding bars regularly again, considering the number of bars that are empty lately, the police will be lucky to find any farang customers inside at all . . .

As long as there are already two number 3s, here's another one. 3. Piercings. I can do without the boys who have piercings all over the place. I agree with lvdkeyes that many guys like tattoos. Many like the piercings. Many like mustaches, beards, hairy bodies, and whatnot. I think no matter what it is, somebody likes it. Certainly the boy himself likes it. I've gotten to the point that I can handle a few piercings and tattoos, but I really don't like them. But I consider the idea that if these boys can handle being with someone who looks like me, then the least I can do is make a few concessions too, even though I'm the one footing the bill.

You have another option. Take a boy off and offer him the opportunity to be your tour guide. He'll probably jump at the chance and would be far less expensive than commercial tours. It would probably be much more fun that way too. I've done things like that. If I flew to a destination at which I wasn't familiar, I would take a boy off if he held a motorcycle driving license, rent a motorcycle, and let him take me all over the place with him driving and me as the passenger. It never failed to be a fabulous time. Now that I have a car, I still do things like that and I invariably get to places that tour groups never hear about. For me, that beats hell out of organized commercial tours.

My latest information is Nice Boys was closed last night. There was no sign on the door to indicate when, or even if, it will open again. I was told many of the boys ended up working in the Tom Yom bar.

I don't think a poll is necessary. Why make it complicated? If someone wants to have a meet-and-greet, just say where, what day, and what time. Those who go will go.

In my opinion that just goes to show that any fool can sit down and write an article, even when he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Doubts Surface on North Korea's Role in Ship Sinking Some in South Korea dispute the official version of events: that a North Korean torpedo ripped apart the Cheonan. July 23, 2010|By Barbara Demick and John M. Glionna, Los Angeles Times Reporting from Seoul — The way U.S. officials see it, there's little mystery behind the most notorious shipwreck in recent Korean history. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton calls the evidence "overwhelming" that the Cheonan, a South Korean warship that sank in March, was hit by a North Korean torpedo. Vice President Joe Biden has cited the South Korean-led panel investigating the sinking as a model of transparency. But challenges to the official version of events are coming from an unlikely place: within South Korea. Armed with dossiers of their own scientific studies and bolstered by conspiracy theories, critics dispute the findings announced May 20 by South Korean President Lee Myung-bak, which pointed a finger at Pyongyang. They also question why Lee made the announcement nearly two months after the ship's sinking, on the very day campaigning opened for fiercely contested local elections. Many accuse the conservative leader of using the deaths of 46 sailors to stir up anti-communist sentiment and sway the vote. The critics, mostly but not all from the opposition, say it is unlikely that the impoverished North Korean regime could have pulled off a perfectly executed hit against a superior military power, sneaking a submarine into the area and slipping away without detection. They also wonder whether the evidence of a torpedo attack was misinterpreted, or even fabricated. "I couldn't find the slightest sign of an explosion," said Shin Sang-chul, a former shipbuilding executive-turned-investigative journalist. "The sailors drowned to death. Their bodies were clean. We didn't even find dead fish in the sea." Doubts surface

That's right. I don't see any need to have something formal or organized to the point that we're getting discounts or someone else is footing the bill. If people want to have a meet-and-greet, it's very simple. Just say when, where, and what time and whoever wants to show up can show up and everyone orders his own drinks and pays his own bill. If you think about it, where is it engraved in stone that it even has to be in a bar at all? Years ago I used to organize these kinds of things on occasion and we would just meet and sit down at the tables on the terrace of The Ambiance, and it would be about 3:00pm in the afternoon, not at night. That gave people time to have their day at the beach, show up for the meet-and-greet, and still have plenty of time to get themselves ready for dinner and an evening out. If I remember correctly, that's how RichLB and I first met and we've been friends ever since. It could be lunch somewhere. I'll bet if we asked nicely, Tui, of Tui's Place, would have no objection if a group of us wanted to gather together for lunch on his terrace at the beach. If it's to be a bar, I would suggest Corner Bar or Memories in Sunee Plaza or Question Mark or Ganymede at Jomtien Complex. All three of those are quiet enough that a meet-and-greet would work. In other words, it can be at all kinds of places besides just bars and it could also work just as well in a number of different bars at various locations.