Gaybutton

For once I actually agree with EarWig, at least to some degree. That's the part about the deportment of the boys in the bars and the general atmosphere. I quite often post that I very rarely go to the bars at all anymore. One reason for that is boys looking bored out of their minds and virtually standing on the stage, at best doing their "one-knee-shuffle," staring at themselves in the mirror, and making almost no eye contact with the customers is not exactly my idea of whoopee. Ten years ago it wasn't like this. In most bars the go-go boys actually danced and appeared to be having a good time and really enjoying themselves. So did the customers. I've been in some bars lately where I almost wanted to ask, "Where can I view the remains?" If EarWig really can convince bar owners to bring back the type of fun atmosphere that used to exist, then I'm all for it. How about that, EarWig, a miracle (and on the Ides of March too) . . . you actually posted something about which you will have my support, if you can really pull it off. Maybe the bar owners will listen to you. They don't seem to be listening to anybody else.

That's my whole point, Kregger. I really get annoyed with people who assert that these boys are nothing but prostitutes, as if that means they don't deserve to be paid full fare for their services and their lives have no meaning. Based on some of the posts I see whenever this subject comes up, I'm convinced that there is a significant number of "farang" out there who have convinced themselves that these boys exist purely for their own personal pleasure and that there is no reason to give them one baht more than they absolutely have to. That is what I am trying to argue against.

As of 10:30 AM, Thursday, the Ides of March, the exchange rates are as follows: US dollar: 34.82 Euro: 45.935 British Pound: 67.275 Australian dollar: 27.1975 Canadian dollar: 29.4775

I like Wowpow's post too. The area with which I disagree is the part about "Have different off fees for superstars, average and the less blessed." Not everyone has the same likes and dislikes. For example, many people are attracted to boys with a lot of muscle and definition. For others, that's exactly what makes a boy unattractive. Some people like a boy's "blessings" to be big and some people prefer them to be small or don't even care about size. Since beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I don't see how such a policy could work. I'm not so sure I like the idea of a small show every hour, though. It would be worth a try, I think, but I'm among the people who don't care for the shows at all. I'm there to watch the boys dancing (of course much of the dancing is the 'one-knee-shuffle'). When it's show time, that's when I usually leave. I like all the rest of his ideas, though. I especially like Wowpow's color-coding idea. Why didn't anyone ever think of that before? And clearly priced drinks too. Now that he mentions it, I can't think of any go-go bars that display drink prices.

If a boy stays with you overnight, then usually he goes home in the morning. Often, however, his customer likes him well enough to want him to stay with him that day, several days, or even for the duration of his holiday. When I said that calls for a new arrangement, it depends on what you and the boy are willing to do. You would be expected to pay his "off" fees at the bar if his stay with you will last into his working hours and expected to tip him for the time he spends with you. Some "farang" do things such as taking the boy to expensive restaurants, buying clothes for him, buying a mobile phone for him, etc, and they think that constitutes his tip. All of that is very nice if that's what one wants to do, but the boy still expects to receive his tip money for each day he's with you. After all, that's why he's with you. If you want him to stay with you for several days, I don't see anything wrong with making an arrangement with the boy, but let him know how much you are willing to pay and let him be the one who decides to accept or reject it. Only recently one boy I know spent ten days with a "farang." The "farang" treated him very nicely, taking him to expensive restaurants, to various shows, bought some clothes and shoes for him, etc. At the end of the ten days that "farang" gave the boy 500 baht, thinking he was being generous in light of all he had spent already. Meanwhile the boy had been expecting between 800 to 1000 baht per day. It was near the end of the month. While he had a good time with the "farang" he was left high and dry financially and couldn't pay his rent. The massage parlors are somewhat of a different story and the expectations are different from the expectations in the bars. Most of the gay massage parlors suggest 500 baht as a minimal tip for the boy, assuming the massage has a "happy ending." You ought to give the boy at least that much. If he was particularly good, then you might want to consider giving him a few hundred baht more.

I just loved this one. It's so typical. A problem exists. The problem is fixed. Now the situation is worse than it was in the first place. The following appears in the PATTAYA CITY NEWS: _____ Soi Beokeow Community Complains to City Hall over Persistent Flooding Problems Khun Wirawat, Deputy Mayor of Pattaya received a group of residents and business owners from the Soi Beokeow Community who made a complaint regarding the state of the drainage system in the area and persistent problems with flooding which occur at the conclusion of every major rain storm that hits Pattaya. Recently the entire stretch of the road was resurfaced and new drainage pipes were installed. Since this work was completed the flooding problems have become worse. The group would like the Pattaya City Administration to take action and modify the existing pipes to ensure that the street does not suffer major disruptions during the forthcoming wet season months. Khun Wirawat promised to investigate the complaint without delay. __________ Where I live, about a year and a half ago both sides of the street were torn up to install a drainage ditch. My street is on an incline and we never had a flooding problem to begin with, but never mind. We never even know who authorized and paid for the work. But now we have our drainage ditch. Of course, the street was left in a condition that resembles a bombed out street in Baghdad and to this day has never been repaired, but by golly we've got our ditch!

Absolutely right. I think it is not only unreasonable to expect it, but it is unreasonable to even want him to do that. I can't think of any reason in the world why a young Thai man should be expected to deny himself a sex life, especially during the best years of his life and even more especially if the "farang" demanding it of him isn't even in Thailand.

That's right. It's in the eye of the beholder. In my eye, what I am beholding is a group of people who are coming up with every reason they can think of for paying far less than the going rate. I can only repeat what I've already said . . . these boys are the reason they come to Thailand and those same boys are the very people they're trying to use to save a few dollars. In my opinion, that really stinks. As for your question as to whether I think you are a cheapskate, the answer is no. I do not think you are a cheapskate at all. You asked them how much they want. They told you and you paid the price they asked. I see nothing wrong at all with that.

I believe it depends on the individuals involved in the relationship. If an open relationship is acceptable to both parties, that's fine. If it isn't, then the relationship won't be a happy one if one wants absolute fidelity and the other does not. Sometimes both parties want fidelity. I do believe it is unrealistic to expect someone in his late teens and early twenties to confine his fidelity to someone two to three times his age, especially if the "farang" is only in Thailand for short durations throughout the year. If the boy wants sex with others or if you want sex with others, and you are both willing to do that in a way in which both parties are comfortable, then the relationship has a much better chance of working in the long run. Regarding why some people don't mind the boy having sex with others as long as it does not involve another "farang," I see no reason why anyone should have to justify that feeling. If it makes the "farang" unhappy, it's going to make him unhappy whether he justifies it on a message board or not. If the boy having sex with other "farang" is something you cannot tolerate, then you're in the wrong relationship if that's what the boy wants to do. Whatever it is that makes both parties happy should be discussed, established, and agreed upon before entering into the relationship. Once you've done that, if you're lucky the boy might even adhere to what he has agreed to do.

Think whatever you want. You merit no apology from me and you won't get one. Old, yes. Fat, yes. Unwashed, no. If you can't figure out that I use that as a joke, then you've got a problem. I also did not say anything at all about how much you do or do not pay. I have no idea how much you pay. Whether you pay or not, and no matter how young and good looking you may be, if you "off" a boy then your age and looks do not equal "I don't have to pay as much as people who are older and don't look as good as me." I also appreciate your assertion that I'm trying to dictate to others what they should pay about as much as you appreciate my posts. I've already said that I'm not in a position to dictate anything to anyone. In the post directly above, we've got one person telling us we ought to be comparing how much to tip these boys to what people pay for food or whether they use their frequent flier miles. Sorry, but I don't buy any of that. To me, the bottom line is that these boys are the reason most gay "farang" come to Thailand at all. And yet we get post after post from people trying to justify giving them as little as possible. Personally, I do think that's cheap and I also think it really stinks. So yes, you're doggone right I'm going to say it's cheap. You, my friend, can think what you want and pay whatever you can get away with.

Trying to say I'm dictating how much you have to pay is absolutely ridiculous. I'm not in a position to dictate anything. If you want to be cheap, there's nothing much I can do about it, is there? You might at least admit that you want to get by with giving these boys as little as possible while satisfying you're own personal lust. Like I said, try any which way you want to try to justify it, but from where I sit it's nothing but giving yourself an excuse to be cheap and being proud of yourself for it.

The baht has appreciated once again and as of noon today the exchange rates are as follows: US dollar: 34.91 Euro: 45.925 British Pound: 67.21 Australian dollar: 27.1025 Canadian dollar: 29.5325

There are flights to Phuket from Bangkok every hour and several airlines have service between the two cities, so it should not be a problem for you. You also should not have to leave the main airport. Most domestic flights are still operating out of Suvarnabhumi.

Short time is when you and the boy go to your hotel room, take care of whatever it is you brought him there for, and then he leaves. Long-time is overnight. It's hard to be more precise about it. You don't determine his tip by clicking a stopwatch and timing how long he's been with you. If you go to breakfast, offer him breakfast too, for crying out loud. If he wants it. fine. If not, give him his money and send him on his way. If you want him to stick with you, that calls for a new arrangement. How much should you pay for a massage? If he comes to your room to give it to you, then I would think he ought to be paid the same amount you would pay for short time. If it is a boy you have "offed" and taken to your room, then if he gives you a massage along with everything else, and if it's a good one and lasts around a half hour or so, then I'd increase his tip by 200 baht. If it's just a short and sweet massage, then that's part of the "package" and I wouldn't see a need for a tip increase. Something that puzzles me, and I have written about this before, is that sex with these boys is the primary reason a great many "farang" come to Thailand in the first place, and yet many want to give these boys the least amount of money they can get away with. "Don't give him 1000 baht. Give him 600 or 700 baht," as if the few hundred extra baht is going to cause these people to go into bankruptcy. Meanwhile, these same people spend big bucks on the airfare, stay in hotels these boys could never afford, eat expensive dinners, drink as if Prohibition begins again the next day, but they get all bent out of shape if they think they're over-tipping these boys. To me, no matter how people try to justify it, it all boils down to being cheap.

Let's not forget that we're talking about Thai boys. I don't know why people are writing as if manipulation, lying and cheating is limited to Thai boys. I rarely have ever met any boy at all, Thai or otherwise, who doesn't do the same thing, and that probably includes most of us when we were that age. What did you expect? We even have so-called adults who post right on these message boards who sometimes are caught lying and cheating with the same immaturity. So, what's the big surprise about it?

To me, that says it all right there. Now he is calling you a liar too. Sounds like a true ingrate to me. Ask him if thinks he's going to get a better offer today. I would tell him you don't care much whether he thinks you're a liar or not. He's the one coming to you for money and you want to know how much it will cost. I would tell him you're not about to simply take his word for it. Tell him you're willing to get a neutral party to contact the hospital and ask. If that's not good enough for him, too bad. It's your money, not his, and you have every right in the world to decide how it is to be spent and every right in the world to check it out. If that bothers him, the I suggest telling him it's been nice knowing him, but he'll have to go elsewhere for cash.

Whichever version of the My Life story is correct, that's kind of secondary to what took place that night isn't it? Wowpow had it right when he said to carry your passport, or at least an acceptable copy, for the time being so that you won't end up having problems in case of another raid. That's what I'm doing and I rarely go to the bars in the first place. I can't guarantee it, of course, but I think if the end of the month comes without further raids, then it ought to be safe to leave your passport in your hotel room again.

There's a very simple solution to that: Find an orphan who is also an only child.

People say I'm a dirty old man. Damned right! And I'll be a dirty old man 'till I'm a dead old man. -- Redd Foxx

Perhaps his problems, yes. I can't speak for others, but I didn't work my butt off all my life to end up coming to Thailand to start supporting an entire family. The problem is that once you let it get started, there is no end to it. There is always something else, someone else sick, or some other emergency, whether real or contrived, and the first place the family looks for help is the inside of your wallet. It can get awfully difficult to refuse and the real problems start once you've had enough of it and won't do any more. If you are willing and have the financial resources to take care of the boy's family problems, fine. Personally, I can't afford it It's a tough decision, especially if it's a genuine life or death decision, but if you make the decision to pay for any family problems, then you better be prepared to continue doing the same thing for the rest of your life, until your relationship ends, or until your money runs out, whichever comes first. If you prefer not to be a living ATM for the boy's family, then you need to make that crystal clear from the outset of your relationship. If you don't, then sooner or later those kinds of problems are going to start and then, at best, it will put a strain on your relationship if you refuse. More likely it will cause enough of a rift in your relationship to inevitably end it.

In my opinion, if a boy starts telling you all about the problems his family is having, and all of them are having problems or the boy probably wouldn't be working as a go-go boy in the first place, then I would tell him you're sorry to hear it and then change the subject. If he persists in trying to gain your sympathy, meaning gaining your money, then I would say something like, "And this is my problem because . . . ." and let him finish the sentence. You're probably better off simply moving on to the next boy and his set of problems.

An interesting letter-to-the-editor appears in this week's PATTAYA MAIL. I'll let you read the article for yourself. If you are someone who uses hotel safes, I'd make sure to read this one if I were you . . . http://www.pattayamail.com/current/letters.shtml#hd1

How do people like these come up with this kind of idea in the first place? When you get right down to it, I wonder how people like that get to be people like that. The following appears in the PATTAYA CITY NEWS: (click the link for photos) http://www.pattayacitynews.net/news_05_03_50_2.htm _____ Two Burmese Men Arrested and Charged with Abduction A fascinating case now from the Pattaya Immigration Office in Soi 5, Jomtien Beach. Police Colonel Itipon, the Superintendent of the Office received information from a small hill tribe in the North of Thailand of a potential case of abduction involving two Burmese men who would bring these poor tribesmen to Sattahip for work but would not allow them to return to their home until a payment of 10,000 Baht is received, at which point the laborers are free to return to their homes. There were also allegations that the laborers were kept in appalling conditions and would only receive food once a day. Immigration Officers received details of the location of a campsite in Samaer San in Sattahip District and arranged to make a payment of 40,000 Baht to released 4 of the workers. What the suspects were not aware of was that the payment was made by an undercover officer used marked bank notes. As soon as the transaction took place, officers swooped and arrested Mr. Surai and his son. A total of 21 laborers including 1 female were found in locked rooms, they consisted of both Thai and Burmese Nationals. The two Burmese men have been charged with abduction and are awaiting a court appearance.

My information came from someone I know quite well, who was there, was an eyewitness to the whole thing, who had his own passport checked, and would have no reason to give me erroneous information. The same was told to me by two other people. Not that I don't believe you, but if you can suggest a better way I should have checked, I'm all ears . . .

Apparently, for whatever reasons, they blocked it for only a few hours. It's back online for me too. However, I remember when they first started blocking the gay web sites, sometimes they would be blocked and sometimes they would be open. We'll see if it happens with YouTube as well.