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This article from the PATTAYA CITY NEWS might give you some alternative ideas. see http://www.pattayacitynews.net/news_24_11_50.htm for photos. _____ Deputy Mayor Helps 11 Year Old Student Living Rough Behind a Chinese Cemetery Deckjing Saroshar aged 11 is a bright student who attends Pattaya School Number 2. Everyday she arrives at school in her white and blue uniform and appears to be a happy child. However, Teachers have been concerned why she is constantly excluded from social gatherings at lunch and afternoon breaks. They were also concerned about her weight and decided to do some investigation into her living conditions and were shocked to find that she was living with her jobless Father in a tin hut behind a Chinese Cemetery in Naklua. Information was passed on to Khun Ronagit, Deputy Mayor of Pattaya who was told that the girl’s father, Khun Tongpraer aged 35 would sometimes not have enough money to feed himself or his daughter. He had come to Pattaya 10 years ago to search for his Wife, without success. He was unable to find work and now collects recyclable items from the street. He uses most of the money to educate and feed his daughter. The Deputy Mayor decided to help out the pair and opened an account for the girl at the Government Savings Bank and placed an undisclosed personal donation inside the account. If you would like more information on the Girl and her Father please call the Pattaya City Call Center on 1337 or you can send a donation direct to account number 03-2105-20-112608-2 at the Government Savings Bank.

Yes, Phuket has a major gay life. Just do a Google search for Gay Phuket and you'll see plenty of web sites about it. A good place to start is: http://www.beachpatong.com/gaypatong You will not have a problem finding people who speak English. Phuket is a tourist city and just about everybody speaks at least a little bit of English and plenty of people speak English quite well. Regarding a job, you have almost no chance. You cannot work in Thailand unless you are able to obtain a Thai work permit. I can't think of any job possibilities for you if you can't speak and/or read at least basic Thai. If you learn some Thai, you probably have a better chance of eventually finding a job at an international hospital then you would have at a resort. The resorts are going to hire Thais who speak English, not foreigners. International hospitals, however, often have a few foreigners on staff. The Thai banks, depending on which one, do not pay any interest at all to accounts opened by foreigners, although I understand there are a few that pay a small interest. It's not enough to even consider unless you are banking huge amounts of money. I don't have any idea whether money transfers are guaranteed, but I can tell you that most foreigners living in Thailand have money transferred in on a regular basis and I have never met anyone who had any problems about it. Cost of living is the most difficult question to answer. If you are coming to Thailand for a holiday, then I suggest having US $150 to $200 per day available if you want to stay in a good hotel, eat at good restaurants, and fully enjoy the gay life. If you are coming to Thailand to live, then as a rule-of-thumb I would advise making sure you have a monthly income of a minimum of US $2000 and US $10,000 to start. Since you are asking about jobs, then I am guessing you are considering coming to Thailand to live, and yet have never been to Thailand. I suggest first coming to Thailand for a holiday and stay as long as you can afford to stay. That way you will start to get an idea of what life can be like here. Then, if you think Thailand will be for you, I suggest planning a six month stay, saving your money until you have enough to do that, and leave yourself an escape route if you eventually decide living in Thailand is not going to work out for you. If you are going to stay longer than thirty days, then you will need to get a tourist visa first. Also, you can find good furnished condos to rent, usually less than half the price of staying at a hotel. Most condos rent for a minimum of one month at a time. As for learning to speak Thai, there are language schools and/or private lessons readily available.

From what I understand, all airport banking facilities will be open for money exchange. But in Thailand you never know, so I urge you to have an ATM card handy just in case. You probably will not have to use it, but at least you will have a way to get some cash if it becomes necessary.

If you are talking about exchange booths at which you can cash travel checks at the airport, they will be open. And, of course, ATMs will be working.

Obviously the above posts were written before we knew what happened to Boxer. However, I bumped this thread to the top because today is Loy Kratong day and some may wish to attend some of the festivities.

I'd start at the beach anyhow. I don't know what you have against it, but that's my recommendation. Most of the beach massage boys would be quite willing to do precisely what you seek. Many of them have mobile phones, so once you find someone you're satisfied with, now he'll also know how to get to wherever you are staying. All you would have to do is call him and arrange whatever days and times you want. Several people do just that. Suggestion number two is the bars. I know you don't like that idea either, but many people find a bar boy they like, get his phone number, and make arrangements outside of his working hours. Also, it doesn't have to be a go-go bar. Most boys who work at the outdoor beer bars would be just as willing. Often, waiters at restaurants frequented by gays are also available during their non working hours. There are even restaurants where you can simply "off" the waiter. Sammy's, for example (Eric's new restaurant), permits "off." The fee is 250 baht. Failing any of that, try the Sansuk Sauna. Several boys are regulars there. They are well aware they can't do anything for money while at the sauna, but many are hoping a "farang" will want their phone number and will call them. Another option is the gay personals web sites. Just look at the ads that say they are looking for love. In most cases, what they're really looking for is a client. Most of the younger ones are bar boys looking to make some money outside of their working hours. As for cruising areas, just walk around the area between Pattayaland and Sunee Plaza at night. You'll run into plenty of freelancers. The Beach Road entrance of the Royal Garden shopping mall is often a good spot as well as Walking Street. Sometimes the Bali Hai Pier area is good at night. I do not advise the Jomtien Beach area at night. It used to be good, but now there is too much crime and it's too dangerous an area at night. Remember, if you have a boy coming to meet you wherever you are staying, you will be expected to reimburse him for his taxi fare to get there and will also be expected to give him taxi fare to get back to wherever he is going . . . in addition to the agreed price for his time with you.

I think that's an excellent idea, but the local language schools might challenge you on that and try to stop you. I know several "farang" who enrolled boyfriends into language schools. Usually the boys went for a few lessons and then stopped going at all. I don't know any who ever actually completed even a basic course, let alone anything more advanced. Another idea might be some sort of job-seeking help. Most of the bar boys I know are working in the bars because the only marketable skill they have, aside from the rice farm, is selling sex. Few are in the bars because they like working in bars. Just the other day a boy complained to me that he has been working in the bars for over a year and nearly every month they come up with an excuse to reduce his salary, which isn't much in the first place, and sometimes he wasn't paid at all. He says the only decent money he ever makes is when he gets taken "off." Most boys are lucky if they get taken "off" three or four times in a month. Some have told me they would love to get a job in a hotel or restaurant, but they don't even have enough money for the taxi fare necessary just to spend any appreciable time trying to look for such jobs. RichLB came us with some excellent ideas to help boys make some good money on the following thread: http://www.gaythailand.com/forums/index.ph...ic=2057&hl= He and I have actually sat down with some boys, explained thoroughly what they would need to do and how they can do it. They listen politely, say they are very interested, and that's the end of it. So far we have not been able to convince even one to give any of these ideas a try even when we offer to help them personally to get started. The thing that concerns me most about the idea of starting a charity is, after you deal with all the legal hassles and unforeseen problems and pitfalls, that there will be few takers. I'm not trying to be negative, but from what I have observed the only help most of the boys I have encountered are seeking consists of finding a sugar daddy who will support them for the rest of their lives and/or start a business for them, such as opening a 7-Eleven type store in their home towns, without having the first clue as to how to run a business. Some really do want to go to school to continue their education and really make something of themselves.

Amen! Well . . . I'm glad we're getting back to the original subject of this thread. I also say stop it. Just stop it. Enough. For crying out loud, even kids who get into arguments and fights are friends again three days later. They seem know better than adults who let it go on and on and get nastier and nastier. I know damned well that everyone involved is reading this thread. We'll see who starts it up again first. I hope nobody will.

The following appears in the PATTAYA MAIL http://www.pattayamail.com/current/news.shtml#hd1 __________ Immigration Announces New Requirements for Retirement Visas Sawittree Namwiwatsuk The Immigration authorities have issued new requirements for foreigners wishing to apply for a retirement visa, including the need to have an ATM card and a credit card. Pol Lt. Samruay Saman, deputy inspector at Pattaya Immigration announced the new rules on November 12. Applicants using visa application form TM 7 have to enclose their passport, a 4 x 6 cm photograph, 1,900 baht fee, proof of income (certificate of bank deposit and bank book savings account, or a fixed account for at least the last three months), and proof of an appropriate amount of money from abroad through the bank in a certain period of time, such as a certificate of transfer from abroad or copy of a banking transfer order. In the event of having any dependents such as a husband, a wife or children, then the relationship certificate approval with Thai translation certified by the embassy or consulate must be presented. The authorities reserve the right to ask for any additional necessary documents in the event of requiring a copy of an ATM and credit card statement, a bank statement, a bank book, and a certificate of pension from the embassy in the event the source of such an amount cannot be checked. Regulations for taking into consideration a foreign applicant’s extension for staying in Thailand require that the foreigner be more than 50 years old, and not forbidden to enter into the kingdom. The foreigner must have financial proof of a deposited amount of no less than 800,000 baht, or a monthly income of no less than 65,000 baht, or an annual income of no less than 800,000 baht in total. For more information please visit http://www.immigration.go.th

I hope so. It's a bit difficult to put myself in someone else's position if I don't know what that position is. You've said your piece in your post above and if it gets deleted, I will not be the one who deletes it. I think I'll stick to choosing my own friends and I'll judge them for myself, just as others judge me for themselves. Gossip is just that . . . gossip. I think most of us know that most gossip is a lot of horse dung and only other gossips care much about it in the first place. I wish everyone who harbors these hatreds and disputes would make amends with each other and become friends rather than remain enemies forever. What good is that? We're all trying to live here in peace and we all want to enjoy our remaining years. It would certainly be much nicer if these squabbles and hatreds would just go away, never to return, and we could all live in harmony with each other, without having to worry about who is going to say what about whom. In the meantime, I hope the personal quarrels between you and me are over and will stay that way. Ok, unless you have something more to say about it, let's let this thread get back to the original topic. We've hijacked it. I apologize to all for having done that, but if what has been said here serves to create, restore, and renew friendships and does anything to end squabbles and animosities, then I'm glad we did it.

The Thanksgiving dinner at Amor was fabulous, one of the best ever. In case you missed it (or want another one), Richard says he has enough that he will be able to serve it for the next few days. So, you really can have your cake and eat it too. He will also be doing a Christmas Day and New Year's Eve dinner. If you would like to see the menus, have a look at: http://www.amorrestaurant.com Reservations are highly recommended for each and you can reserve by email. Details are on the menus.

That won't be necessary. As far as I'm concerned, it's settled.

I was informed right in the middle of the Thanksgiving dinner at the Amor. Gaypattayan was also having Thanksgiving dinner there and he told me. I understand his death was caused by complications from prostate cancer. We are all deeply saddened by such news. His web site is still online. If you have not seen it, the URL is http://www.boxertravels.net

If you get a moment, would you mind translating your post into English?

Your advice to me? Ok, when I feel in need of advice or in need of an antidote to mind poisoning, you'll be the first one I'll call. I don't think I wrote anything that says I believe I'm included in your "White Socks Brigade." Whether I am or not is a matter of indifference to me. However, I do think it's a reference to some of my friends, especially one in particular who you have a history of consistently taunting by writing about his white socks and sandals, along with writing about "a dead racoon on his head," "Memories Mafia," and your idea of art work: (__o__). Is that your idea of humor? I'm still trying to figure out what he ever did to you or why the animosity has dragged on for years instead of shaking hands and making up. That is why I assumed when you posted asking GayThailand not to include the "White Socks Brigade," if he hosts another party, you meant that very same person and anyone who is a friend of his ought to be excluded. GayThailand has had both you and this "White Socks Brigade" at one of his parties before. If I jumped to the wrong conclusion, very sorry. Did I jump to the wrong conclusion? As a matter of fact, I'm somewhat surprised you believe I thought I'm included in that "brigade." You did ask him to invite controversial people. Who is more controversial than you and me? It will certainly be a very interesting party if we're both invited. People will be champing at the bit to see whether we try to kill each other or whether we sit down, talk, have a good time, and end up as friends. That could actually happen. To the best of my recollection, you and I have spoken a grand total of once, and that was only for about five minutes, and it was at one of GayThailand's parties. People keep saying our message board personalities and our actual personalities are completely different. It would be interesting to find out. Well, at least I know I'm not included in your "Memories Mafia" considering I haven't even been to Memories in over four years.

All things considered, Thailand is still quite inexpensive compared to other places to go for a holiday. It's just that as a result of inflation within Thailand and the miserable current exchange rates, it's not as inexpensive as it was. Personally I think it's still quite a bargain considering a night out in Pattaya, including sex, costs roughly the same as dinner and a movie in the USA. I think I'll stay here . . .

Of course, but I'll have to add Vinnie, Tony, Luca, and Umberto to my group. As for the socks, paisley on magenta print sounds nice.

To my knowledge, there is. When you get back, you won't have to walk around looking for who it refers to. I'll be glad to show you myself. It's not always necessary to mention names to know exactly who is the butt of a reference. Perhaps you are unaware of it, but that refers to a specific person, and many of us know who, and his friends. If you're not sure to whom it refers, let me know and I'll tell you by email. It might be trivial to some, but to others it is an insult, totally unprovoked, and the intent of the reference is to continue the insults. I don't see any reason in the world why that or any other insult should be condoned or permitted on this board. Again, I'm trying to figure out what the funny part is. I think I have as good a sense of humor as anyone else, but when people are needlessly taunted and insulted, that's where I stop laughing. But that's not my complaint. I was using that as an example. My complaint is the people who engage in pissing contests on this board, no matter who it is and no matter how often we ask them to stop. By the way, I walk around in sandals too . . . without any socks.

I have been informed there are still a few seats available at each seating for the Thanksgiving dinner at the Amor Restaurant in Pattayaland. Richard Burk does a wonderful job with the dinner and I, along with several friends, have our Thanksgiving dinner there every year. We wouldn't even think of having it anywhere else. Thanksgiving is tomorrow. If you are interested, click on the following link to see the menu and contact information if you wish to reserve any seats. There are still one or two seats left at my table and you are welcome to join us if you wish. http://www.amorrestaurant.com/thanksgiving.html

Does your kitchen sink have a sprayer hose? Mine does. That is also made out of flexible tubing. So, that's one law I don't get unless sprayers of any kind are banned indoors where you live.

Yes, I really do believe that. It's not just rents and salaries that constitute the cost of running a bar. The bars are there to provide us with what we go to them to seek. The last time I checked, businesses are out there to make a profit, not to be satisfied with breaking even or taking a loss. If you don't believe it, sit down with a bar owner some time and discuss what it costs to run the bar, and then compare that to the amount the bar grosses each month. When you see how much net is left over, you may not be so upset about the current prices. Another thing you can believe: If the bars were reaping in huge profits, then why have so many failed and gone out of business? Do you really believe if they were raking in the money they would have closed up shop? Even now that we're getting into high season, many of the bars are still nearly empty. It's a little difficult to maintain a bar business when you're only selling a dozen drinks or so per night, if you're even selling that many. I'm just grateful they haven't yet had to raise the prices any higher than they are now. Just as an example, if a person goes to three average Pattayaland bars in a night and buys one drink in each of them, he just spent 450 baht, the current equivalent of US $13. Maybe in that third bar he calls a boy over and buys a drink for him. Another 150 baht. Now your evening has cost you about US $17.50. Maybe he takes the boy "off" for 300 baht. Now he's spent 900 baht, the equivalent of about US $27. He takes the boy back to his room for sex and tips him 1000 baht. Now the total he just spent for an evening out in the go-go bars, drinks, and even sex with a boy of his own choosing is roughly US $56. Most people will probably end up actually spending much less than that, but never mind. Does that really seem like an outrageous amount to you for a night of drinks, go-go boys, and sex? If it does, then let's go back a few years when drinks cost 100 baht and the "off" fee was 200 baht. That same evening out would have cost, at current exchange rates, 500 baht less, taking into consideration the three drinks, the drink for the boy, and the "off" fee. It's a difference of about US $12. A few years ago, that night out would have cost US $44. Now it costs US $56, and that's in most Pattayaland bars, and that's if you're spending the max and tipping the max. Most people will actually spend far less. The drink prices and "off" fees in most Sunee Plaza bars are much less.

I don't quite agree with you on that. I don't think it's appropriate to post personal information about anyone without their permission. I think privacy should be respected and I don't see any justification for some people to post messages that are designed to insult, embarrass, accuse, or otherwise upset people. I believe if someone tells someone else something in confidence, then it should remain so and not end up on a message board. I believe if someone dislikes someone else, then it should be taken up personally, either by meeting with the person or having their argument by PM. I don't think a message board is where all this nonsense should appear. For example, EarWig has an obvious dislike for the "White Sox Brigade." Well, who gives a damn about that? That's his problem and something he should take up directly with them. What the hell is anything about it doing on this message board? Perhaps it gives some people a good laugh, but I don't see anything funny about it at all. What's the funny part? And I'm not trying to single out EarWig. Far from it. Many others do the same thing, quite often completely unprovoked. As far as I'm concerned, keep personal arguments, accusations, and hatreds to yourselves.

Someone else will have to answer that one. I haven't eaten there in nearly two years.

A group of us tried the BBQ. All of us thought it was excellent and we don't know how he can do it for 220 baht. The way it works is Eric has the boys outside doing the grilling, and then they bring plates of it inside. Eric brings over the selections to your table and you take what you want. You can have as much as you want. Eric just keeps bringing more. There were choices of BBQ chicken, pork chops, steaks, meatballs, kebobs, and sausages, all cooked to perfection and served hot. Some nights he has seafood available too. Eric has also greatly improved the salad bar as well, just within the past few days. Now it includes several more salad choices, more dressing choices, and more dessert choices. This is one of the best bargains in town. We were a group of eleven and all of us were delighted, impressed, and intend to be regulars.

I think the prices are high too, but so are gasoline prices. It's either pay the price or stop driving your car. In the bars, it's either pay the price or do without the bars. Most Sunee Plaza bars are still less expensive than the Pattayaland bars, but not by much. I don't think it helps very much to factor in the exchange rates when considering how much bars should charge. If the exchange rate was still at 45 baht to the US dollar, as it was for so many years, then there probably wouldn't be so many complaints. The bars can't set their prices according to exchange rates. They have to set their prices according to domestic costs. For many years the drink prices at most bars was about 100 baht and "off" fees were 200 baht. Inflation affects Thailand too, you know. Prices everywhere have increased. A month from now the baht bus prices are going up too. Restaurants and hotels are raising their prices. Just about everything in Thailand is going through inflation. I don't see how the bars have any choice if they are to survive. While I don't enjoy paying the higher prices, I'd rather pay it and have the bars than end up with hardly any bars or even no bars at all. That's not nonsense. It really could happen. There are a lot fewer bars now than there were six or seven years ago, and I'm seeing more closings than openings.