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The following article is the only publicity I have been able to find about this at all. If any of you were in Chiang Mai, can you tell us more about this? The following appears in THE NATION: _____ Gays, Lesbians Parade in Chiang Mai Chiang Mai - Members of the International Lesbian and Gay Association held a parade in Chiang Mai Saturday evening. The "Pride Parade" was held at 7:30 pm and the ILGA members paraded on the Chang Klan Road past the Night Bazaar. The organiser of the parade said it was held in the theme of "equality in diversity". The parade came a day after the ILGA held a meeting in Chiang Mai.

Those are all good questions and I don't know the answers. One reason might simply be because the raids are almost always in Sunee Plaza. Raids sometimes do occur in Boyztown, but in comparison to the number of raids that occur in Sunee Plaza, it's rare. Your guess is as good as mine as to why. During this latest raid, so I'm told, even Memories was forcibly shut down. I imagine if the police are bent on finding something wrong - an 'I' not dotted or a 'T' not crossed - they will.

Last night, around midnight, the Banglamung Police staged the latest raid on Sunee Plaza. IDs and ages of the boys were checked and bar licensing papers were checked. Several under-age boys were carted off to wherever they end up going and several bars were shut down. I wasn't there when the raid occurred, but I was there this evening. Every bar was open and running normally and there were just as many under-age boys working in the bars I visited as ever. Some of the bars that were forcibly closed were shut down not because of under-age boys, but because of improper licensing. That is not necessarily the fault of the bars. The licensing requirements are so confusing that sometimes even the attorneys don't know just what is necessary. Obviously, whatever the problems were, the bars all managed to get them resolved today since they were all open again.

Unfortunately for the US dollar, it didn't last long, although the other currencies seemed to fare better this week. The closing rates as of Friday, January 25 were: US dollar: 32.84 Euro: 48.26 British Pound: 64.91 Australian Dollar: 28.84 Canadian Dollar: 32.3625

I'm afraid you'll just have to keep on wondering. The moderators here make the decisions without getting involved in public discussions or debates about it. Suffice it to say that when trolls appear on this board they, their posts, and their threads don't last long. On that same thread Wowpow suggested that problem posters be dealt with quietly, without going public about it. That's good advice. That's how the latest problem was handled and that's how such future problems will be handled if and when they arise. This thread is now locked.

Here's some more information: Yesterday I was with a friend who applied for the retirement visa. He entered Thailand on the 30-day limitation you get when you arrive at the airport without first having obtained a visa. He had no problems getting the retirement visa. He had all the necessary documentation including the proof-of-income statement from the embassy, but before granting the visa the Immigration office needed to first convert his visa-on-entry to a Type "O" visa. That was no problem either, except they charge for that. So, he ended up having to pay the fee for a Type "O" visa first, and then also had to pay the fee for the retirement visa. 3900 baht by the time he was through. In other words, to get the retirement visa you don't have to go through getting a Type "O" visa first before entering Thailand, if you're eligible for the retirement visa, but you'll still end up paying the fees. Actually, since you have to pay the fees anyway, it seems much easier to just take care of everything at the immigration office. That way you don't have to send your passport off to a Thai embassy or consulate first and then wait for your passport to be returned, along with filling out the application, obtaining a money order, providing a return envelope and postage, etc. You can simply do the whole thing on the spot right at the Immigration office without any of the hassles. The Immigration officer will tell you what additional document copies he needs (just more copies of some of the documents you already copied to get the retirement visa), which you can get right next door at the photo shop (in Pattaya), and then there is a short application to fill out. The Immigration officer does the rest. He'll stamp in the Type "O" visa on the spot and then take care of the rest of the documentation for the retirement visa. You still have to return the next day, however, to pick up your passport with the retirement visa in place. Because Immigration now requires a new proof-of-income statement each year when you renew the retirement visa, assuming thats how you are going to do it rather than the 800,000 baht option, yes they do keep the original instead of just a copy. Now, one more thing that will probably provide a feeling of relief for many of you. They do require a copy, front and back, of your ATM and/or credit card. However, after simply taking a glance, the Immigration officer herself blacked out the numbers, all the numbers, not just the last four digits and the three-digit security code. For those of you who were upset over the possibility that somebody could take the information and wipe out your bank account or charge up your credit card, obviously that's not going to happen. Just why, then, they want a copy at all is just another item on my "I Don't Get It" list, but at least now you don't have to worry about someone from Immigration accessing your ATM or credit card information. Also, at least at the Pattaya Immigration office, if you're going in the morning, get there before 11:30 AM. We arrived at 11:45 and took a number, but they close up shop at noon and start again at 1:00. They hadn't called our number by noon, so we had to wait an hour until they reopened. Oh well, lunch at Dick's Cafe while we were waiting was very nice . . . For those of you who have access to a car, my friend wanted to get the proof-of-income statement, the letter from the bank, and get to the Immigration office all in one day. We left Pattaya for Bangkok at 5:00 AM so we could get to the US Embassy right at their 7:30 AM opening time. Why so early? After all there's no traffic problems getting to Bangkok at that hour. The trouble is, once you get to Bangkok the traffic problems in the city have already started. Also, we had to figure out where we could park the car. One of the toughest things to do in Bangkok is finding somewhere to park anywhere near where you're trying to go, especially if you're trying to go to the embassy, and even more especially if you're not familiar enough with Bangkok to have a good idea where to find a place to park at all. Not only that, but if you have to park far enough away from the embassy, or wherever you are going, that you'll need to take a taxi, it has to be a place easy enough for you to be able to tell another taxi later how to take you back to the location of wherever you parked. We didn't have any luck finding a parking place near the embassy, so we went to the Siam Center, parked in their parking lot, and took a taxi to the embassy. The Siam Center charges 20 baht per hour to park and a taxi from there to the embassy was about 50 baht. We were back in Pattaya and at the bank to get the letter at 11:10. By the time we got the letter and got to the Immigration office, it was 11:45. If we were a lousy 5 minutes earlier getting to the Immigration office, we would have been called before their noon lunch break, but it didn't work out that way. At least we were the first ones called when the lunch break was over. I can tell you that driving to and from Bangkok is much easier now if you are taking Route 7 to get there, rather than taking Route 3 through Si Racha and Chonburi. Route 7 is the expressway most taxis now use to get to Suvarnabhumi Airport. For a very long time there were always major traffic delays because of the construction on the expressway. Most of the delays were at the detours around the several overpasses that were under construction. Two of those overpasses are still under construction, but the rest of them are now open. We experienced no delays at all.

The following article might be the explanation for the sudden reversal of the baht and its weakening. Although it didn't weaken by much today, at least it weakened at all. There's a good chance it will weaken further. The bottom is dropping out of the Asian stock markets. Despite what's going on in the USA stock markets, the baht seems unable to hold onto its previous strength. Well, good! I hope the baht becomes very weak against the US dollar. If that happens, I just hope it happens before the bottom drops out of the dollar. Here's the article: _____ Thai Shares Tumble in Second Day of Global Sell-off BANGKOK, Jan 22 (TNA) The Stock Exchange of Thailand (SET) plunged nearly 25 points to close 3.26 per cent lower on Tuesday in alignment with global bourses as investors attempt to shed risky holdings in the face of a not only possible but an increasingly likely economic recession in the United States. The sub-prime lending crisis that won't go away saw the SET composite index falling 24.99 points to 741.54 and the blue-chip SET-50 lost 19.40 points to close at 531.45. Anticipating further drops when New York reopens tonight Bangkok time, investors moved to unload vulnerable positions. Indices fell in Tokyo by almost six per cent, Hong Kong's Hang Seng fell 8.7 per cent, Australia's market lost 7.1 per cent, Shanghai dropped 7.2 per cent and India's main indices lost four per cent Tuesday, while Jakarta registered an 8.5 per cent loss. In part Asia's investors are fearful that the sinking US economy will mean markedly reduce markets for the region's exports. KGI Securities executive Adisak Kammoon said investors worldwide had slimmed their portfolios in concern about the sub-prime lending woes and the economic recession in the US. Mr. Adisak said he believed global stock markets would continue to fall in the first quarter of this year since the selling pressure by the investors appeared to continue unabated, leading foreign investors to dump shares in the Thai bourse for the second time of this year, having already unloaded Bt 30 billion in shares during the first round January 2-18. He was uncertain to what extend foreign investors would dump their shares in the second round, and advised investors looking for long-term investment stocks to slow their buying because stock prices are likely drop even further. (TNA)

Those numbers are correct. Let's hope it doesn't come to that. I seriously doubt that even the Thai immigration officials would come up with regulations that would require people to have to spend hundreds, perhaps thousands of dollars to get loads of individual documents notarized annually. If they do, I would think the US embassy would intervene somehow, either with a letter that would certify the documents have been checked and certified or a flat fee for those requiring documents for immigration purposes. That would make at least some sense. That's what scares me.

Less than a year ago the media was predicting the baht would be at 42 to the US dollar by now. Famous last words . . .

Apparently the current downward trend of the US stock market has also had its effect on the Asian markets. Yesterday, the baht to US dollar exchange rate closed at 32.88. This morning the baht opened at 32.90. Less than an hour later, the exchange rate reached 32.99. Now, two hours later, the exchange rate has reached 33.01. We'll see what ends up happening. As of this post the exchange rates are as follows: US dollar: 33.01 Euro: 47.505 British Pound: 63.925 Australian Dollar: 28.2425 Canadian Dollar: 31.7525 _____ Closing Rates: _____ US dollar: 33.01 Euro: 47.505 British Pound: 63.90 Australian Dollar: 28.11 Canadian Dollar: 31.7325

For most electronics, it is usually less expensive if they are bought outside of Thailand, especially at the current exchange rates. I suggest contacting ESRI to make inquiries about their prices and to also check prices in your home country. eBay might be a good place to purchase a unit too. Incidentally, regarding power, mine has a built-in lithium ion battery. At first I was somewhat surprised because it came with no power cord to plug into a wall socket to recharge the battery. It came with a plug for a car's cigarette lighter and with a USB cable. It charges up via the USB cable and/or the car plug. My particular model might be useless if you don't have a computer or a car unless there is an optional wall socket plug available. As for where I bought mine, that won't do you much good. I have a nephew who works for an electronics company. He was able to get me my unit at a dramatic discount, which would be unavailable to others unless they happen to have a relative or friend with access to that kind of a discount. It is possible that buying directly from ESRI could be the less expensive method if they sell their units pre-loaded with the Thai software. You'll have to check unless someone who already knows posts a response.

2lz2p, what the British consul says might very well happen. If it does, I don't see it as a big problem. It shouldn't be difficult for people to obtain the necessary documentation unless they are trying to live in Thailand on less than the minimum requirement. Even then, if it's a choice of coming up with convincing documents or being forced to leave Thailand, then I'll bet most of them will come up with the documents somehow. This is yet another one on my "I Don't Get It" list. I've never understood why a proof-of-income statement is what the Immigration office wants in the first place. My logic tells me that a requirement to show the immigration office proof-of-pension documentation, instead of the proof-of-income statement should have been in place long ago. I can understand why they might want that documentation notarized by the embassy, but the Consul is right. The whole thing is about proving that you have income enough to support yourself in Thailand without becoming a financial burden on the Thai government. When it comes to pensions, I also don't get the reason why it is necessary to come up with documentation annually. I don't see why it should be necessary to show pension documentation more than once, when first applying for the retirement visa. People's pensions either go up each year or at least remain the same, don't they? I've never heard of anyone's pension being decreased annually (unless they worked for Enron - then having to show valid documentation would make some sense). Oh well, if that's the documentation they'll eventually want, then we'll just have to provide it.

Thank you for that information. You just settled a question nobody else was able to answer. Most of us know that the US embassy requires nothing other than an oath that you are telling the truth to get the proof-of-income statement. Nothing has been said about what the British requirements are. Can you tell us what, if anything, the British Consul requires?

If you're anything like me and easily get lost, especially in Bangkok, then a good GPS is just the thing. It comes in particularly handy if you drive in Thailand. Even though you might be in Thailand only as a holiday maker, you might want to rent a car and drive to all sorts of places within Thailand. A GPS can be extremely helpful. Excellent maps are available for Thailand. In Bangkok, the best of the maps is available through ESRI (see http://www.esrith.com/Eindex.cfm ). They'll install a highly detailed map of all of Thailand into your GPS. The price for the software is 7000 baht. You do have to take your GPS and personally go to ESRI in Bangkok and have them install the software for you. Bangkok is their only location in Thailand and despite the fact that there are ESRI outlets elsewhere in the world, only the Bangkok location carries the highly detailed map you probably want. The recommended GPS is a Garmin GPS. I use the Garmin C340 StreetPilot and it works beautifully. All you have to do is select where you want to go, either manually or by touch screen on the maps and you're all set. The GPS will guide you by voice and map. For example, suppose you are in Pattaya and you want to drive to the Tarntawan Place Hotel. All you have to do is select it on the list of hotels and the GPS does the rest. It will give you a map and voice directions. You'll hear things such as "Turn right in 100 meters." "Turn right here." "Turn left at Soi 29." "Take exit 4, Rama IV and then keep left." If you miss the turn, no problem. The GPS will automatically re-route you and get you to your destination. Considering all the one way and confusing streets in Bangkok, once you have a GPS you won't know how you ever lived without it. It even tells you where hotels, restaurants, gas stations, etc. are located and will guide you right to them. If you are going to get a different brand of GPS or different model of the Garmin GPS, I suggest contacting ESRI first to make sure they have, and can install, the software on the brand and model you have or intend to buy. It can come in handy even if you don't drive. If you are in a taxi, sometimes the driver doesn't have a clue where to go. Sometimes you might wind up with an unscrupulous driver who will drive you all over town, trying to jack up the fare. Having a GPS handy can certainly solve that kind of a problem. If you are getting a Garmin GPS, or already have one, go to the Garmin web site (see http://www.garmin.com ) and download their free web updater. Once you install it, you can download free updates. My GPS came with only a female voice. The web updater has additional voices, including a male voice if you prefer. That's what I preferred. I downloaded it and it installs directly into the GPS. Once it's installed, simply go to the Language menu and select the voice. Additional languages are pre-installed in most GPS systems, but if you need a language that isn't pre-installed, the web updater probably has just what you need. It's a great gadget to have and they are small enough to be easily carried. If you are going to do any serious traveling around Thailand, I highly recommend getting one.

Applying for the retirement visa can seem complex and confusing, but it really is not. It's actually quite simple once you make up your mind whether to do it by having the 800,000 baht or the proof-of-income statement. Wowpow is probably correct that it can be a mix, but I also have never met anyone who tried it that way. As for the trolls, I meant what I said in an earlier post about keeping this board a "troll free environment." We're simply not going to put up with any more of it. Also, to clarify matters, most people seem to assume that I'm the one who makes those decisions. At least I'm usually the one who receives the complaints and/or the thank-you messages. The fact is there are three moderators on this message board. I'm only one of them. Both GayThailand and Stef are the others. Although we are each authorized to act unilaterally, we have never done so. When a problem poster gets dumped, it is by agreement of all three of us. There have been a few problem posters who have recently had their posting privileges revoked. I have a feeling they are reading this message. If you are one of them and you believe that I unilaterally removed your posting privileges, feel free to contact GayThailand and Stef and find out for yourself whether I acted unilaterally or all three of us agreed to get rid of you. In short, if you come to this board and act like a troll, then expect to be treated like one.

It is one or the other, plus the letter from the bank (not more than one week old), valid passport, documentation that shows where you live and the address, your Thai bank account book (updated, preferably the same day), two passport photos with white background, copies (front and back) of your bank's ATM card or credit card, and a filled-out "Application for Extension of Temporary Stay in the Kingdom" (available at the information counter in the Pattaya Immigration office). You can see a copy of the "Application for Extension of Temporary Stay in the Kingdom" form at http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?au...&showfile=7 . I suggest using the downloadable form for information purposes only. I don't know whether the Immigration office will accept it. Maybe they will, but you're probably better off filling out and original one that they give you at the Immigration office. I suggest going to the little photo shop adjacent to the Immigration office first. They'll make sure you have all the necessary documentation, will make all the necessary copies for you, will make the passport photos for you if you don't already have them, and will make sure you are going in with everything you need, properly filled out. Don't forget to dress properly. If you go in wearing a tank top and shorts, they'll send you home and refuse to provide service for you until you show up appropriately dressed.

Of course it is. So is riding on a motorcycle without a helmet. I'd be willing to bet there are plenty of people who swear to whatever income they want, whether it is true or not. I have yet to ever hear about anyone ever ending up in trouble over it.

Yes it is, and that's what makes all these other rules, in my opinion, ridiculous. I can't speak for embassies other than the USA embassy, but all you have to do there is fill out the very short form, pay them their 1200 baht, and swear before a notary that you're telling the truth. That's all there is to it. They neither require nor ask for any documentation whatsoever other than your passport.

The rules seem to change as often as the weather. Unfortunately, every time the rules change, someone comes up with something more absurd than the rules had been. Most of these changes end up on my "I Don't Get It" list. If all this is because they want some sort of proof that your income source is outside of Thailand, fine. I really don't see what difference it makes whether your money is coming from inside or outside of Thailand. Maybe you're lucky enough to have a sugar daddy giving you all your money right here in Thailand, which could easily mean that you've got plenty of money, but it all comes from within Thailand. Just because your money might be coming from within Thailand, that doesn't necessarily mean that you're working illegally in Thailand. Even if you are working illegally in Thailand, the usual Thai salary doesn't exactly generate enough income to keep the average "farang" living in the style to which he is accustomed. Ok, they want a new proof-of-income statement from the embassy each year? Fine. I'll go to the embassy and get it. They want a letter from the bank? Fine. I'll go to the bank and get it. They want copies of ATM and/or credit cards? Fine, I'll give it to them. I don't know why they want these things and so far I have heard no stories about anyone giving their banking or credit card information to Immigration and then finding their accounts wiped, so I'm not afraid of giving them the information. When they come up with even more rules, I'll follow them. Different Immigration offices have different rules? Fine. I'll follow whatever rules they have. All I ask is that they clarify what the rules actually are. I don't want to even try to get anyone at Immigration to explain the reasons for the rules. That's because no matter how many Immigration officers you ask, you'll get a different answer every time. You'll probably get a different answer even if you ask an Immigration officer to explain one day, and then go back and ask the same officer the same question the next day. The common denominator is that none of the answers will make sense anyhow. Look at the bright side . . . it's only once a year.

That is something I didn't know. It was my understanding that the letter requirement applies only to those who don't have the 800,000 baht in their Thai bank account. I have now edited out the portion of my post that contained the misinformation, so there should be no confusion now. Apparently, since they asked for the letter from you too, it is required of everyone.

No. I didn't notice that until your post. The names have now been replaced with asterisks.

Apparently you have missed out. That regulation has been in place for quite some time now. Anyone who is obtaining or renewing a retirement visa, who is also using the proof-of-income statement from the embassy, is required to produce a letter from his Thai bank. That letter, from what I understand, certifies that one's income is generated from a foreign source. I don't know why that letter is required, but that's what Immigration requires nevertheless. Without the letter they will not grant the visa. I don't know what the letter actually says. It's written in Thai and I can't read Thai. I've never bothered to have the letter translated. It's just another piece of paperwork Immigration requires. All you have to do is go to the bank (usually you have to go to the branch where you opened your account) and ask for the letter for Immigration. 200 baht later, which is the fee most banks charge, you have the letter, whatever it says.

That is certainly true. It would have been nice to find good information about bus services posted somewhere, but it seems that you have to find these things out for yourself. I guess I was just lucky. I knew about the express bus to the airport from Pattaya, so I simply assumed there must be the same bus available for returning to Pattaya from the airport. I turned out to be right and I was lucky that my arrival time was just perfect for catching the express bus. While I was at the airport I inquired about the fees for parking at the long-term parking lot. I was told the fee is 150 baht per day. Apparently you parked at the airport parking lot. Is that the amount you were charged for parking? Was there any difficulty finding the parking lot entrance or getting to and from the parking lot?

Can you tell us more about this? Is this bus available at the airport? If yes, where do we find the bus? Do you know what hours they run the bus?

My recent trip out of Thailand was my first experience at Suvarnabhumi. I don't understand why so many people are complaining. I had no problems at all. One of the common complaints is about the distance you have to walk to get to your departure gate. The distances didn't seem any longer to me than at most other major international airports. I also had no problems at all with customs or immigration, either coming or going. When I arrived back in Thailand, as soon as I exited the customs area, there were the taxi touts. "Where you going?" To Pattaya. "Ok, we can take you there 1800 baht." Yeah, right. I decided to take the express bus. It's on the ground floor. You take the escalator or elevator all the way down, then turn to your left while facing the airport exit. It's almost at the end of the terminal building. The bus costs all of 106 baht. When you get to Pattaya, it makes a stop at South Pattaya, on Sukhumvit, near the main bus terminal. The next stop is also on Sukhumvit, just beyond Central Road (Pattaya Klang) at the secondary bus terminal. You can easily catch a baht bus from there. The last stop is on Soi Chaiyapruk, half a block from the beach road. That's pretty far down the beach, in the vicinity of the Nong Nual seafood restaurant. You can easily catch a baht bus from any of the stops. So, there's your choice: 1800 baht for a taxi or 106 baht for the bus. However, the last bus leaves the airport around 9:00 PM, so if your flight is coming in later than that, then you're in the taxi. I don't know why the bus doesn't run 24 hours a day, but it doesn't. If you are arriving during daylight hours, the bus is a very good cost saving choice. I found it very comfortable and it is air conditioned. Obviously it is less convenient than a taxi, but to save 1700 baht I'll take a little inconvenience.