Gaybutton

I think what it all boils down to is being reasonable with these boys. While I would rather see the boys overpaid than underpaid, in my opinion 1000 to 1500 baht for short time is reasonable. 300 to 400 baht is unreasonable. On the other hand, I believe giving the boys 3000 baht or more for short time is also unreasonable, assuming you're with the boy as a customer.

In most cases they can't. Many of these boys share a tenement, cheap room, often three or four boys in the room. They share the cost of the rent. Often it's 700 or 800 baht per person. Also, the bars are not necessarily their only job. Many of these boys work all day, then work in the bars all night.

I care. Rude or not, I also agree with firecat69. So, at least one member of this board does care what he is saying. I doubt I'm alone in that. Like it or not, firecat69 knows what he is talking about. And he is right. Some around here would do well to pay attention to what he is saying and following his advice. It will make for a much better holiday and the boys will be sorry to see you go instead of feeling 'Good. Another cheap prick is gone.'

Talk to the boys themselves. The most common complaint I hear from them is farang who only care about their own sexual gratification and, as far as the boys can tell, nothing else. The boys feel like farang don't give the first shit about them and in far too many cases they're right. The way they see it, many farang are only here to have themselves a nice, satisfying cum with boys they find attractive, and at the lowest possible price. Again, in far too many cases they're right. Some try to justify it by saying the boys are desperate for money and will accept 300 or 400 baht. If anyone reading this is one of those, are you proud of yourself? Does it make you feel good to do that? Too many farang try to justify giving the boys paltry amounts because, as they see it, they're only prostitutes - just as if being a prostitute means they don't deserve to be well treated - and well paid - by their customers - unworthy of being treated decently as humans. Maybe farang see them as prostitutes, with all the negative connotations, but the boys don't see themselves that way. Neither do I. They're not here to be used and abused, but that's just what too many farang do. Personally, I have a hell of a lot more respect for those "only prostitutes" than I have for the farang customers who treat them that way. I have no respect for those kinds of farang at all. If giving these boys decent money for what they're doing for you is really going to cause you major financial difficulties and you need to save money, try eating less expensive dinners - without the goddam wine. Try having fewer drinks. Save money that way. But trying to save money by lowballing the boys? I see no justification for that no matter what the excuse for it might be.

I agree with that. The people I have a problem with are the ones who pay a lot of money for the airfare, stay in good hotels, eat in good restaurants, drink like there's no tomorrow, and then try to save money by offering cheap tips to the boys - and the boys are the reason these people come here in the first place.

Maybe the difference is Cheap Charlies and Even Cheaper Charlies.

Of course not. I don't do this often. I can't afford to do this often. And, as I said, I do this only for boys I really like and know they're going to be honest with me. When I do this, usually by the time I'm done I've spent between 20,000 to 40,000 baht - depending on how long the boy is going to stay home, what he needs while he's there, and what he will be doing while he's there. I'm sure there will be some posts saying there's no way it could cost that much. What is the money being spent on? I don't believe you. I'll give my responses to those kinds of posts, if they appear, right now. 1. "What is the money being spent on?" None of your business. The only important things are me knowing what the money is being spent on and how I know it. 2. "I don't believe you." I don't care whether you do or not. And, by the way, I agree with every word firecat69 has written in this topic. He knows what he is talking about. I've lived here long enough to be certain of that. It's incredible to me that anyone claims to be knowledgeable and posts that boys can easily get 1500 baht for short time and get it several times a week or make 24000 baht a month. WRONG! If bar boys were making that kind of money, there would be more boys working in the bars than Carter's has Liver Pills. Most bar boys I know, and I know a lot of them, are lucky if they can make enough money to eat and pay the rent. The days of making really good money by being a bar boy are long gone, if they ever existed in the first place.

I certainly think it's a good idea too. I should have posted it long ago. I hope it's an idea that catches on. The boys will love you for it and it means a hell of a lot more to them than an expensive telephone - which they're likely to end up losing, breaking, selling, or somebody steals it. Or gold - which they're likely to end up selling or somebody steals it. I used to give things like that to boys once in awhile. And I always ended up regretting it. Probably, no matter what happens to those things, sooner or later they'll forget who even gave it to them. But a chance to go home and be with the family, along with having a good amount of spending money too - they're not going to forget that - not ever. And that's something I've never regretted doing. Another thought - if need be, it's also a good way to get rid of a boy for awhile . . .

Sometimes, if it's a boy I like enough to want to give something substantial to beyond a tip, I don't buy him gold, telephones, motorbikes, or anything of the kind. You know what I do? I ask him when was the last time he had money enough to go home and visit his family. Most of the time it's been many months, sometimes years. If that's the case, I buy him a round-trip home so he can be with his family for a few weeks and I give him money enough so he can have a good time while he's there. I've done that several times over the years. Based on the response I invariably get, they appreciate that far more than anything else I could have bought. I still get "Thank you so much" notes from boys who received that gift years ago. Consider doing that, gents.

The busiest is usually right around Christmas and New Year. If you're going to come at that time, make your bookings as early as you can - to be assured of being able to get flights and get your first choice hotel bookings.

I think it is more a matter of individual tastes and preferences. For me they have become far less interesting over the years. But I know several farang, some of whom have lived here as long as I have and some even longer, and they're in the bars virtually every night. I agree the bars are probably most fun for people who come to Thailand for brief holidays. Many save up all year to be able to come to Thailand and go to the bars. Meanwhile I live here and rarely go to the bars at all anymore. "All that you wanted he would not even take." - Anne Baxter (Nefretiri), 'The Ten Commandments'

I'm glad to know I am the subject of a myth. Some dubbed me "Mayor of Sunee Plaza." Wrong. Some thought I was the leader of the "Barmy Army." Wrong. Actually most of the same people who were "Barmy Army" regulars are still part of the same group. And the person who really was the leader still is. The fact is I used to go to Sunee Plaza regularly, at minimum several times a week. Now it's rare for me to go to any bars more than just a few times a month. I don't enjoy the bars as much as I used to - when they were actually fun. Also, I live on "The Dark Side," quite a distance from the bars. I used to be able to get to the bars from my place in about 15 minutes. Now, with all the traffic problems, I'm lucky if I can get to the bars within 40 minutes. And living here, I don't need the bars to find boys. I almost never bother with bar boys at all anymore. That's thanks to sites such as Planet Romeo and sheer luck. And I'm not a drinker. I never was. I might have a gin & tonic or a glass of wine once in a while, but that's about it. As for my group of "Barmy Army" friends, we meet for dinner quite often. If they want to go to the bars after dinner, that's usually when I'll go. Other than that, I'll be interested in going to the bars regularly again if they ever again become the fun they used to be. Speaking only for myself, to me one beer bar is pretty much the same as the next. I usually don't last more than 20 minutes or so in a go-go bar, mainly because of the music volume. Extremely loud music drives me away. It for sure doesn't attract me. These days, I'm much happier now that my biggest problems of the day are usually which young lad I want to "entertain," and which restaurant I want to go to for dinner. As for puzzling about which young gent to choose that day, back in the USA I would have murdered my mother to have that problem. If I'm not calling them, they're calling me. I think I'll stay right where I am . . .

I'm sure you can find the way without high tech help. It might take much longer, you'll eventually get there. But since we do have high tech help available, I intend to use it. What I used to do in an unfamiliar city, such as Bangkok, was if I had no idea how to get where I was trying to go, but I was driving, I would hire a motorbike taxi and follow him. He would always make sure he didn't lose me. If he did, he would also lose getting paid. As for high tech, when calculators were first gaining popularity, I had a math teacher who told us, "You can all use your calculators as much as you wish - as soon as you can prove to me you don't need one."

I can. Google maps is fine for initial route planning, but it can't compare to a GPS. For example, when I go to Bangkok, Google maps can easily plan a route from my home to where I'm trying to go. What Google maps cannot do, but my GPS can, is instantly guide me to an alternate route if there is some reason why I can't take the Google maps route all the way. That happens frequently when I go to Bangkok. My exit into Bangkok is Rama IV. Often, the police have it blocked off. Without my GPS I'd probably still be trying to figure out an alternate route. Sometimes I'm on my way somewhere, and on the spur of the moment decide to go somewhere else or visit some attraction. My GPS handles that easily. My GPS gives me continual voice callouts such as "In 300 meters turn left on Rt. 2245." "Railroad crossing ahead in 200 meters." "In 300 meters you will reach your destination, on the right." It also gives me warnings such as if I'm exceeding the speed limit, a huge truck is approaching from the rear - closely, I'm approaching a hidden, dangerous sharp turn. It gives me a continual ETA to my destination. It can show my choice of the road map with local terrain or simply the road map. It can show my choice of 2D or 3D buildings. When I'm approaching an exit that can be confusing, it guides me to the correct way to go. It can give me a heads-up display at night. It can show me all the hotels, gas stations, restaurants, ATMs, shops, hospitals, auto repair shops, where to park my car - you name it - in my immediate vicinity - with telephone numbers. All kinds of additional features too. I do use Google maps sometimes to initially plan a route, but compared to a GPS it doesn't even come close. The Sygic GPS I recommended for mobile phones works beautifully. For the US $30 it cost me for the paid version, I would not want to be without it. Christian, painful as I know it is for you not to do things the cheapest way possible, there are times when it's actually a good idea to open your wallet and spend some money on something.

"You were both wrong. And you were both right." - Yul Brynner (Taras), 'Taras Bulba'

I thought I'd never see the day, but I agree with every word bkkguy wrote in his post above.

It also won't cover any resulting medical expenses for anyone, vehicle and property damage, funeral expenses if anyone dies, compensation to victim families, bail money, or anything else. In other words, if something happens and the driver was drunk or on drugs, now you're completely on your own. If someone other than yourself is going to be driving, you better be damned sure you can absolutely trust him when he's out and about on his own. With my car nobody drives it but me. The few times I ever made an exception, if somebody else was driving, that was not going to happen unless I was in the car too. Miller: "You don't trust anyone, do you?" Stavros: "That is why I have lived so long." - David Niven (Miller), Anthony Quinn (Stavros), 'The Guns of Navarone'

Another thing - if your boyfriend is driving and there is an accident, the police are going to check for drugs in his system and check to see if he has been drinking. If either of those are the case, the insurance company isn't going to pay anything. Even if the police rule the other driver was at fault and that driver has insurance, if your boyfriend was drunk or tests positive for drugs. they're not going to pay either.

I've owned a car in Thailand for many years. Insurance runs about 14,000 baht per year. That's per year. Incredibly inexpensive. An SUV will probably be a few thousand baht more expensive. My recommendation is a standard car rather than an SUV unless you have a serious need for an SUV. With an SUV you're going to have problems finding a place to park, driving down narrow sois, driving down sois where cars are double parked (which is most of them), etc. For me, in Thailand the smaller the car, the better. The last thing I would want in Thailand is a big car. Make sure to get the first class insurance which fully covers you and any other licensed driver who drives the car - zero deductible and total coverage, no matter who is at fault. That definitely comes in handy if there is an accident with an uninsured vehicle. If you've had no claims during the year, the rate usually goes down. The thing to consider is whose name the car is in. If there is an accident, the person ultimately responsible is the person whose name the car is in. Another thing to consider - if you would want to be assured the boy gets the car in case of your own death, if the car is in his name it is not even an issue. As for credit, what is available is up to the car dealership and the finance company they work with. If the car is going to be in a Thai person's name, the down payment is usually far less than they want if the car is going to be in a farang name. Also, check to see if there are penalties for early payoff. Your boyfriend might be close about the down payment. My car is a Toyota Vios. I was able to get the Thai down payment price 50,000 baht. That was a while back. My car is almost 10 years old now and still runs as perfectly as it did the day I bought it. Once a car reaches 9 years old, Thailand requires annual inspection. If you properly maintain the car passing inspection should be no problem. I thought about selling the car and buying a new one, but then I thought "Why?" I have a car fully paid off and running perfectly. I'm going to stick with this car until it becomes a maintenance problem no matter how old it is. I'm old too, but I for sure am not running perfectly anymore . . . If you're not going to do all that much driving or traveling, you might want to consider a used car. Many are in prime condition and the only reason they're being sold is because the owner couldn't keep up with the payments. But don't buy a used car without first getting an independent mechanic to inspect it. Most of the time at checkpoints I've been waved on, but sometimes the police will stop you. It won't matter whether it's a Thai or farang driver and it won't matter whether you did anything wrong or not. If the police officer has his hand out, you're going to part with money. Just accept that as being part of it if you're going to drive in Thailand. For me, it's never been more than 400 baht and it almost never happens in the city or major expressways and toll roads. It's usually if I'm driving in the provinces and even then most of the time I'm just waved right through. Not a big issue. If a cop is going to fine me, meaning he wants to pocket the money, I say, "I don't have time to go to the police station. Can I please give the money to you and you take care of it for me at the police station?" That line has never failed me. I just give him what he wants and goodbye. As I said, no cop has ever asked me for more than 400 baht and I've been driving in Thailand since the mid 1990s. Many cars come with built-in GPS now. They are quite sophisticated. You can easily switch between English and Thai displays and voice direction. It works beautifully in Bangkok and everywhere else in Thailand. Sometimes it wants to take you on a road you don't want, but all you have to do is drive right past it and the GPS immediately recalculates another route. My car did not come with built-in GPS. I use an excellent GPS that is a mobile phone app. Sygic. My phone is an Android phone. I don't know if Sygic is available for other phones. There is a free and paid version. The free version works just fine, but I went with the paid version which has more bells and whistles. For the US $30 for the paid version, it's a hell of a good deal and the updates are current. It has never failed to get me where I want to go and get me back home again. It has maps available, free, for all countries. They recently even came out with a map for Laos. If the car does not come with a GPS and if your phone is not compatible with Sygic, the best GPS brand is Garmin. As for driving into other countries and returning to Thailand, I can't help you with that one. I've never tried. While Thailand's roads are usually in good shape, I'm not so sure about other countries. From what I understand, Cambodian roads are terrible.

If fresh towels are all you need, there shouldn't be a problem getting them any time you want them, even in the middle of the night. Any hotel I've ever stayed in, if I want fresh towels I simply call the front desk, tell them I need fresh towels, and they send somebody up within just a few minutes - no problem. I don't do that often, but when I have I've never been refused. If you do have somebody bringing something to your room at odd hours, I think it's definitely appropriate to tip whoever brings it. If you're really lucky, maybe the tip won't be merely money . . .

Sorry, I forgot about the third troll. Keep trying trolls. Maybe one of these days you'll actually come up with something intelligent - but I doubt it.

Perhaps . . . But I see no other trolls besides those two posting on this board. That's how they get their fun. As soon as someone posts something that makes them vulnerable, you can bet they'll be right on it with the same kinds of posts. Whether it's convoluted logic, total bullshit, or just plain mean, there they are. And steveboy, in all his brilliance, took the bait as you can see on his post just above. Feed a troll and it works every time.

I see you couldn't resist dragging me into this. I made no posts on this topic, but here come the trolls with their insult attempts. Yawn. Lucky for you I don't moderate this board anymore. With the kind of behavior both you and steveboy persist in your posts, you would have been gone long ago - the first time either of you decided to post your utter crap.

I'll be foolish and ask. Who paid?

I too am enjoying your photos. I hope you will continue.