Gaybutton

Maybe on another thread, my little joke about Dan Quayle wasn't so far-fetched after all . . .

The following appears in THE NATION: _____ CRACKDOWN BEGINS Troops, firing tear gas and shots into the air, have moved in on protesters at the Din Daeng intersection near Victory Monument. Troops, firing shots into the air, have apparently retaken control of the Din Daeng intersection from red-shirted protesters, according to TV news reports. There were reportedly some injuries but no immediate reports of death. About 50 people suffered minor injuries, many from tear gas, a Bangkok Metropolitan Administration medical director said. About five persons were seriously injured. The red-shirted movement claimed "several" of its members suffered gunshot wounds, and condemned the authorities' use of live bullets in the crackdown. TV news footage showed soldiers firing shots into the air. Tear gas was also fired, TV reporters at the scene said. A few hundred troops were involved in the operation. The clash took place around 4 am and left about 50 soldiers and protesters injured, it was reported. Gunshots were still heard after 5 am, but not as intensely as when the crackdown began. One TV reporter quoted "runaway" protesters as saying that there might have been some deaths. The troops were pushing from the Din Daeng intersection toward the Victory Monument. Protesters were scattered and retreated from the intersection to the moment. It appeared that the troops were in almost complete control of the Din Daeng intersection after 6 am. Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd, Army spokesman, said 300 protesters were in the area when security forces including soldiers and police moved in. He said the troops first tried to negotiate with the protesters, who were allegedly armed with molotov cocktails and tear gas themselves. He said the talks broke down after some protesters tried to ram buses against the troops. "The troops had to fire into the air. I repeat. They fired into the air and took action against the protesters," he said. Some arrests were made, he said, adding that "reluctant participants" of the protest who were forced to stay by fellow protesters were released. "Similar operations will be carried out in other areas," he said. Protesters have burnt tyres on a few spots in the Din Daeng area, and there have been concern that red-shirted protesters would resort to arson in response to the crackdown. Several intersections were still occupied Sunday night by the protesters, who used buses to barricade several major roads, spawning massive traffic jams. Police said up to 30,000 demonstrators were scattered around the city. Police vans at some intersections were abandoned and looted, AP reported. Protest leaders have woken up red-shirted demonstrators at Government House to inform them of the Din Daeng incident and tell them to prepare themselves for a possible crackdown. Gunshots at Din Daeng intersection could still be heard around 5 am, but not as intense as an hour earlier. TV footage showed some wounded protesters taken into military vehicles. Earlier, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has assured the nation that there is no disharmony within the government as well as key agencies responsible for enforcing law and order. In a late-night television address, Abhisit was flanked by all key government, military and police leaders, a setting apparently intended to stamp out persistent speculation that he was losing support of top police and military officers. He said the rumours were intended to weaken the government which has been trying to restore law and order through peaceful means. "There have been a lot of rumours and I would like the Thai media to report on the truth to the Thai public," he said. Among false reports, he said, were claims that security forces had already resorted to violence to suppress the red-shirted protesters. The prime minister insisted that a united government remained confident that the situation would improve in the next few days. Abhisit had vowed not to bow to the red-shirted protesters' demand for him to either step down or dissolve the House, and expressed confidence that the military and the police, whom he had reportedly criticised in private, were still firmly on his side. It had been reported that Abhisit singled out police chief Patcharawat Wongsuwan for sharp criticism following Saturday's collapse of the Asean summit with dialogue partners. Coup rumours were intense late Sunday afternoon but seemed to subside late into the night. Speculation now was focused on when security forces would move against protesters occupying some key areas in the city. ____________________ and this: _____ CHAOS REIGNS By The Nation Published on April 13, 2009 PM Declares State of Emergency, Vows to Restore Law and Order, Military Dispatches Forces and Tanks to Key Centres in the Capital Thailand plunged into chaos for a second day as Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva declared a state of emergency in Bangkok to quell anti-government protests. The embattled premier, whose Secretary-General Niphon Phromphan was also injured in an attack by an unruly mob at the Interior Ministry yesterday, said the government would quickly enforce the state of emergency to restore law and order in the capital. Tens of thousands of red-shirt protesters regrouped at Government House after small groups marched to the Interior Ministry, the Foreign Ministry, a court and other public buildings to pressure the government to quit. Protesters on Saturday forced the Abhisit government to abruptly end the summit of Asean leaders with their Asian dialogue partners by storming into the summit's venue in the resort city of Pattaya. Several foreign countries yesterday expressed disappointment at the cancellation of the summit, while some such as Australia, Hong Kong and Russia issued advisories warning their citizens about travelling to Bangkok. Abhisit said on national TV that the protesters had no right to break the law or violate other people's rights, while Deputy Premier Suthep Thaugsuban told police and soldiers to take action against protesters who break the law. Under emergency rules, authorities are empowered to detain any person without charge for up to 30 days. Suthep said some protesters yesterday attempted to harm the premier physically while two other senior government officials, including Secretary-General Niphon, were hurt. Doctors said Niphon's ribs were broken in the attack at the Interior Ministry. Over the past few days, some major roads and intersections in Bangkok have been blocked by protesters also. Ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra said during his daily phone-in to protesters at Government House he would return to Thailand to lead the red shirts if the military staged a coup. Thaksin is currently a fugitive, facing a two-year jail term for abuse of power and corruption. The military, meanwhile, dispatched its forces, tanks and armoured vehicles to take positions at around 50 key locations in Bangkok following the emergency rule. Army spokesman Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd denied earlier reports that two armoured vehicles at Siam Paragon shopping centre and the Foreign Ministry were taken over by protesters. "The red shirts did not take over the tanks, but some of them just climbed over the armoured vehicles. There could be violence if we prevented every one from getting close to our vehicles," he said. Eyewitnesses said the protesters, however, had taken over dozens of public buses which were then lined up along main roads leading to the compound of Government House in a bid to prevent authorities from attempting to disperse the protesting crowd. Defence Ministry spokesman Col Jitsak Charernsombat said the latest emergency rule imposed by the government in Bangkok was similar to the one for Pattaya and Chon Buri. "I'm not sure if this measure would be effective in quelling the unrest because it's unclear how much authority officials have in doing their task. "When the government has said it would be lenient, it's unlikely we could do anything much to reverse the situation as far as officials at the operational level are concerned. "In fact, the government should have a set of clear-cut, step-by-step measures to deal with the situation from moderate to strong measures. In other words, there are no details in this emergency rule yet." Somsak Kosaisuk, a core leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy or the yellow-shirt movement, said police and soldiers would have to ensure that the emergency is enforced effectively.

I'm not concerned over whether you think my phraseology is awkward for a very simple reason. It isn't awkward. This thread is supposed to be about whether Mark should or should not permit smoking inside his bar, not a thread nitpicking over word choices. Anything awkward about that?

Here is some further detail, from CNN: _____ Speaking by video link from an unknown location, Thaskin called for supporters to topple the Thai government. He also played on police forces' alleged affinity for the so-called "red shirts" and promised his eventual return. "The troops who have already come out can come and join the red shirts to help us to get democracy for the people," he said. "This is a golden opportunity. We will make history and there will be no more coups in Thailand. We must achieve democracy for all of us." The state-of-emergency decree suspends certain civil liberties, including the right to public gatherings and a free press. It also cleared the way for the government to call up military troops to tackle the protest mobs. But the military has yet to act, in some cases standing down as protesters clambered over their vehicles, waving flags and chanting anti-government slogans. Top brass have denied rumors of a military coup and have stressed that they will not initiate violence. Some of the protesters have no such reservations. "The violence has begun already. It started today and will continue. It may do harm, but it must be done to protect democracy," protest leader Sakrebee Promchad, 49, said today. "It must continue until we accomplish our goals. We will keep fighting." Abhisit's motorcade was attacked after leaving the besieged Ministry of Interior. Protesters smashed one black BMW with rocks, bottles and outdoor furniture -- anything at hand. In one case, a protester picked up a heavy, potted patio plant and heaved it against the side of the sedan. The prime minister managed to escape the attack on the motorcade unharmed. "I believe that the people have seen what happened to me. They have seen that the protesters were trying to hurt me and smash the car," Abhisit said in a television appearance after the attack. Abhisit, a 44-year-old Oxford-educated economist, was voted into office by parliament after his party came in second in 2008 elections. He promised to restore political stability to Thailand after a series of short-lived administrations linked to Thaksin, who was ousted in a bloodless coup in 2006. Thailand has had four different heads of state and one interim military government since then. Thaksin is now in hiding from a two-year jail term for corruption. The Thai media have been awash in rumors of alleged sightings in Cambodia, Dubai and Africa. Last year, Britain revoked Thaksin's visa and, more recently, a consortium of Bangkok businesspeople offered a monetary reward for anyone who could bring him back to face justice. Some $2.2 billion in funds held by Thaksin and his family have been frozen by the Thai government, according to reports. Still, Thaksin remains popular with Thailand's rural majority. Poor and marginalized Thais, especially in the north and northeast, were won over by his campaign of "paddy-field populism," offering health and education programs. His followers, known as the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship, or UDD, believe he has the economic prowess to steer Thailand out of the global economic crisis. "Thaksin's return is what we want most. To me, everything will go back to being better," said the UDD's Sakrebee. Thaksin, a former policeman and Texas-educated devotee of George W. Bush, is a striking contrast to soft-spoken Abhisit, whose kid-glove treatment of protesters at the summit has already drawn the scorn of the region's strongmen, such as Cambodia's Hun Sen. In recent days, Thaksin has stepped up broadsides against Abhisit in his daily video call-ins to supporters. He has repeatedly dismissed the youthful-looking Abhisit as "too young" to lead the country. He is stressing class difference and claims the UDD is a movement of democracy against aristocracy. "I'm ready to go back home. I'll be there soon," he said Saturday in a congratulatory speech to UDD faithful after the summit was canceled.

The following is from CNN: _____ BANGKOK, Thailand (CNN) -- Former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has urged his supporters in the troubled south-east Asian country to revolt, a military-run network and CNN affiliate MCOT reported Sunday. His comments came after incumbent premier Abhisit Vejjajiva declared a state of emergency in the capital city, Bangkok, and surrounding areas in an attempt to contain days of intensifying anti-government protests. Thaksin, who was ousted in a 2006 coup, said in a video-link speech from an unknown location that he would return to Thailand to lead people in a march on the capital if necessary.

No. You'll be fine there. You're a good three miles away from the brouhaha at your location, and that's a straight line distance.

That's it, then. Once again you can kiss the tourist industry goodbye. That's what people will see all over the world. People who don't know what it's really like over here would be nuts to plan a trip here, especially in light of the airport takeover before. I would never plan a trip to Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, or any other country portrayed as unsafe. For all I know, maybe it would be perfectly safe to go to some countries, but like most people I only know what I see on the news. For most people who don't live in Thailand, what they see on the news is also all they know. Why would they come here? For what? The major loss already for Thailand, according to the news, is the loss of Chinese tourists. That alone will cause a major impact on the tourist industry. Pattaya was counting on a major influx of tourists for Songkran. Based on the news reports I've been reading, finding hotel space in Pattaya during Songkran won't exactly be a problem. It's really a shame. The tourist industry is predicting a 200-billion baht loss as a result of all this. That's US $6-billion. The tourist industry in Pattaya was just beginning to see a recovery when all this got started. Now they're saying it will be at least two years before they see any signs of recovery again. A lot of businesses went under following the airport seizure. Now that things are getting violent, it's anybody's guess as to what will happen now.

Sue me . . .

One thing I believe all of us can agree on is that Abhisit's government grossly underestimated what the Red Shirts would do. The following appears in the PATTAYA DAILY NEWS: (for photos, see: http://www.pattayadailynews.com/shownews.p...NEWS=0000008896 ) _____ ARMOUR, TROOPS ON STREETS; GUNFIRE IN SCUFFLE AFTER PM DECLARES EMERGENCY BANGKOK, April 12 - Armoured military vehicles and soldiers have been deployed at 50 key locations in the capital as anti-government protests turn more violent and spread into several areas of Bangkok following the prime minister’s imposition of a State of Emergency. Gunfire from unidentified sources was heard during a scuffle as the prime minister’s car left the Ministry of Interior Sunday afternoon. Television footage showed protesters smashing the prime minister's car with clubs, iron bars, rocks, flower pots and bottles forcing the driver to take evasive action in the compound as protesters blocked all entrances. The car's window was shattered. Army spokesman Col. Sansern Kaewkamnerd said the military's presence is meant to restore order, after red-shirted anti-government protesters stormed into the ministry compound, and local television showed pictures of the mob armed with poles and paving slabs smashing a car they believed carried the prime minister. However, Niphon Prompan, the premier's secretary-general, was seriously hurt in the incident and being detained by the protesters, according to Supachai Jaisamut, interior ministry spokesman. Mr. Abhisit escaped unharmed and he later told reporters that he was safe but one of his security guards was nabbed by the protesters. When the prime minister departed the interior ministry, a driver in another car was seriously injured after being beaten by the protesters. He said he had not fired at the protesters but the gunshot was heard after the protesters tried to grab a gun from him. Another security officer was handcuffed by the protesters and was taken to the anti-government United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) encampment at Government House. Mr. Abhisit urged the protester to release his man and allow him to seek treatment at hospital. The premier Sunday afternoon declared a State of Emergency in the capital and five neighbouring provinces. Effective immediately, the state of emergency is imposed in Bangkok, Nonthaburi, Samut Prakan, Pathum Thani, Nakhon Pathom and Ayutthaya provinces because a group of people are inciting unrest. It will be implemented by Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban, Mr. Abhisit said. He said the government deemed it necessary to declare the state of emergency before the situation worsen. Under the order, gatherings of more than five people are prohibited, the press is not allowed to present news reports which could incite worry among to the public. The order also allows the public to be evacuated from areas considered to be risky. - (TNA)

Believe me, it won't. Many of the boys are going home anyway for Songkran, but then they'll be right back. They can't make any money at home and none of the protests are taking place anywhere near the gay venues. In other words, as it stands now you have nothing to worry about. You might see military presence at the airport upon arrival, if they are deployed there when you come, but their purpose would be to make sure the airport remains open and accessible. They won't be there trying to frighten tourists. In Pattaya now, as I said, everything is perfectly normal. You wouldn't even know, now, that anything is going on unless you're watching it all on television or checking the news web sites. There really is no reason to even consider canceling travel plans now. I guarantee you, if there was anything to fear, I'd be on one of the first planes outta here.

Don't be so sure. I spoke to Geezer today and I think he said it best: "Thaksin will fight on as long as he has breath in his body." I believe that's exactly what he will do. The fact that it hasn't already been done is on my "I Don't Get It" list. The UDD television station was taken off the air earlier today, but one thing Thaksin still has is a telephone. It would be very difficult to prevent him from simply calling in to his supporters, have them hold their phones to a loudspeaker, and then he can say whatever he wants to say. From my interpretation of the latet news articles, that's what he is actually doing.

56 companies of soldiers have been deployed to help police protect key government offices and secure major intersections in Bangkok. They are moving into place and many have already moved into place. This is "breaking news," so I have no further details yet.

If anything, wouldn't "no smoking permitted" mean you are permitted not to smoke? After all, we wouldn't want anyone putting a gun to our heads and forcing us to light up against our will, now would we? But this little issue may prompt me to create a new list. I already have my "I Don't Get It" list. Now I'm think of starting a "Who the Hell Cares?" list.

You're perfectly safe coming to Pattaya and it was never unsafe to be here. Unless you were a guest at the Royal Cliff Hotel during the time of the siege, the worst that happened to anybody was getting caught up in traffic jams and inconvenienced. All the brouhaha here is over and everything is back to normal. The problems are now in Bangkok and that's where the problems are likely to stay. As for the rainy season, it will end when it ends. That's the best anyone can tell you. I wouldn't worry about it too much. Usually when it rains, we get a heavy rain for about 45 minutes or so. An hour later, you wouldn't even know it had rained at all.

In one of the most incredible showdowns in recent history, Abhisit vs Thaksin, both sides are escalating their tactics. Less than 30 minutes prior to this post, Thaksin called in again to incite the protesters to ratchet things up. Another little question I have is whatever happened to the Yellow Shirts? Just a few months ago they were so vocal and militant. Now I not only no longer see people wearing yellow shirts, but I haven't seen a word of comment published from any of their leaders. The following appears in THE NATION: _____ Thaksin Makes Phone-in, Calling More to Join Rallies Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra made a phone-in to the rally at the Government House at 6:30 pm, calling more people to join anti-government rallies in Bangkok. He said it was the "golden time" now for the protesters to rise up against the government after soldiers were deployed to Bangkok streets. He said it was now time for the people's revolution and he was ready to move into Thailand to lead the people's uprising.

I ended up not going after all. I couldn't afford the coke . . .

Rest assured there will be no flames on this board. If anyone tries that, they'll be gone quickly. You are entitled to express your opinion without getting flamed for it and so is everyone else. Also, you ask a legitimate question: "What would you guys do if you were in Abhisit's place?"

Apparently the Prime Minister and Thai government are all through taking a soft approach to the political uprising. Things could happen quickly now and it could easily become bloody. The following is an analysis by a Thai journalist. The following appears in THE NATION: _____ Round Three: Nation on the Brink By Tulsathit Taptim The political showdown has reached the point where everyone can only pray and nobody dares to predict the outcome. Thaksin Shinawatra says he wants to "conclude" it during, if not before, Songkran. Abhisit Vejjajiva says everything will return to normal after Songkran. What will this dangerous common ground of the two men who have become arch-rivals lead us to is anyone's guess. One day after the whole of Thailand is the ultimate loser, the nation is staring at one of the most monumentous political showdowns in modern history. And interestingly, both warring parties are up against the ropes. Thaksin and the red-shirted movement have gambled with everything they had, alienating themselves from non-partisan Thais with the kind of aggession that has put the already weak Thai economy in jeopardy and further threatened frabics of nationhood. Abhisit, on the other hand, has cornered himself with the Mr Nice Guy approach and the only way to shore up his wavering legitimacy is to act tough. Thaksin has nothing to lose, albeit except Bt76 billion which may be the final answer to the question "Why?". Abhisit has everything to lose and some values to protect. The prime minister was said to have lashed out at the police, military and government kingmaker Suthep Thaugsuban after the Pattaya debacle which is costing much more than just his face. The turmoil that caused the cancellation of the Asean summit with dialogue partners, however, has eaten into public sympathy for the red shirts as much as Abhisit's leadership. Declaration of state of emergency in Bangkok and its suburbs was Abhisit's only choice. If it wasn't his last throw of the dice, it was something very close. A failed state of emergency like the one declared by the ill-fated government of Samak Sundaravej last year could doom Abhisit's reign. But a bloodshed as a result of the state of emergency could also generate political repercussions that are as bad, if not worse. And Abhisit's state of emergency will be enforced against a backdrop of doubtful loyalty from the police and, to a lesser extent, the military. Conspiracy theorists are seeing an increasingly isolated prime minister after what should have been a high-alert security routine in Pattaya provided a non-existent barricade allowing protesters to sleepwalk to the summit hotel in great numbers. Other analysts, however, simply view the outbreak of red-shirted aggression as a result of a too-cautious approach of authorities too fearful of things getting out of control. It will become evident very soon whether Abhisit is acting tough when it's too late. If they had failed in Pattaya on Saturday, the red-shirted protesters could have been tamed or calm today. But now that they have been buoyed by the Pattaya "victory", the movement will naturally be more difficult to contain. One thing remains unchanged for Thaksin. A crumbled government, or a House dissolution, or a large-scale bloody riot, or even a coup, will not be enough to bring him home, let alone restore him politically. This is a war just for the man to get even, or at best some leverage to push for return of the frozen Bt76 billion. So, it's fast becoming a war between enemies whose only way to go is forward. One side is very desperate, while the other has been jolted into a near panic mode. This is the kind of situation where no pundit dares predicting the immediate result, let alone a long-term one.

The following appears in THE NATION: _____ Government Ready to Take Severe Action on Protesters : PM Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva announced on TV at 5.20 pm Sunday that the public should be panic with the chaos caused by red shirted protesters and his authorities were now ready to suppress protesters. He urged the public to remain calm during the operations. His announcement came shortly after some 1,000 police armed with full gear including tear gas were heading to the Government House reportedly to crack down on the red shirted protesters rallied. Abhisit has declared state of emergency in Bangkok and five other provinces on Sunday afternoon after lifting the laws in Pattaya and Chon Buri on Saturday. The protesters have instigated chaos in the city on Sunday including road blockings and seizing armoured vehicles and buses.

I think you answer your own question here. I see what the Red Shirts are doing as something that will ultimately backfire on them for precisely the reason you state yourself. I think they are going to set the Thai economy on a much deeper downward spiral, if they haven't already done so, and their methods are going to result in cutting off their own nose to spite their face. My "I Don't Get It" list includes a simple question. If the Prime Minister and government really do resign, then who's in charge? Alexander Haig? The Red Shirts want new elections since the current Prime Minister was not elected by the general populace, but exactly how will that be accomplished if there is no legitimate government at all? With so many calls for Abhisit to step down, if he does, then who takes his place and who administers a new round of elections?

It's always a great pleasure to have one's intelligence insulted. Thank you, Embassy. Actually, it isn't necessary to tell us the absolutely obvious. The incredibly obvious will do.

In a nutshell, Arisamun, the Red Shirt leader of the invasion of the Royal Cliff Hotel in Pattaya, has been arrested, which has triggered off rioting and more road blocking in Bangkok on the part of the Red Shirts at both the Interior Ministry and the courthouse at which Arisamun was taken for arraignment. The Prime Minister is caught between a rock and a hard place. While he wants to avoid having to let loose the dogs on his own people, he also can't let mobs run amok and do anything they please, anywhere they please. Of course, none of us have any idea how much longer all this is going to go on, but it seems as if the fuse has been lit and at any given moment the real explosion can come. In my opinion, the Red Shirts are making a big mistake by this method of protest. They are demanding everything they want right now, and if they don't get what they want, without even negotiation, then they're prepared to virtually shut down entire cities in their effort to force the outcome their way. I think it's all going to backfire on them in the end, but we'll just have to wait and see. What astounds me just as much is that so far I have neither seen nor heard about any kinds of warnings at all issued by any of the foreign embassies. While Pattaya is completely back to normal now (unless you're an employee at the Royal Cliff), Bangkok is once again in turmoil.

I hope I'm wrong and I hope the baht will take a nose dive, but based on past history I'm not expecting much movement at all.

I can. Don't forget, the last military coup came about for the purpose of ousting Thaksin. What reason would the military have for a reversal and bringing back a triumphant Thaksin? I believe a coup will not occur unless the Red Shirts continue dramatic demonstrations, such as Pattaya, to the point that the military decides that the whole country will go under unless something drastic is done. I also believe a military government would never allow a situation to develop that would allow Thaksin to return under any circumstance except his arrest. I think the military views Thaksin in the same manner by which the Burmese government views Suu Kyi. Unless there has been a radical change, I can't imagine the military supporting Thaksin. I think if they did, then there already would have been a coup.

Obviously everybody, including you, knows exactly what it means. You wish to nitpick about it. Go right ahead, but I have an idea that the majority of people reading this are thinking the same thing I am, which is: Who the hell cares?