Gaybutton

That's exactly what I dislike about organized religion and the clueless fanatics who think they are somehow experts about how others ought to live. Guess what, lady . . . I'm not interested. I'll decide for myself how to live, thank you very much. Until you can prove what you're shooting your mouth off about, why don't you just shut the hell up? There is absolutely no evidence of any kind that shows being the child of gay parents is in any way detrimental . . . except, of course, being victimized and persecuted by homophobic bigots.

TV Sitcom Pioneer Gale Storm Dies By Alan Duke CNN LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- Gale Storm, whose acting and singing talents earned her three stars on Hollywood's Walk of Fame, died Saturday, according to a Danville, California nursing facility where she was a patient. Storm was 87. Storm got her first movie contract, a stage name and a husband when she won a radio talent show in Hollywood at the age of 17. Her first TV show -- "My Little Margie" -- set the sitcom stage with Lucille Ball and other female stars in the 1950s, said Skip E. Lowe, a longtime friend who acted in some of Storm's first movies in the early 1940s. "She was a wonderful singer," said Lowe. "She started as a singer and became known as an actress and singer." Born Josephine Owaissa Cottle in Bloomington, Texas, in 1922, she entered and won a CBS Radio talent show that offered a grand prize of a one-year movie contract with RKO Studio, according to her personal biography. She teamed up with the male winner, Lee Bonnell, whom she married and had four children with. The couple remained married for 45 years until his death in 1986. "We fell deeply in love and were married two years later, just as soon as my mother would allow it!" she wrote. The new name Gale Storm was also part of the prize, she said. Lowe, who interviewed her several times in recent decades on his cable TV show, said Storm was open about her bout with alcoholism. "She was battling that bottle," Lowe said. Storm wrote about her alcoholism on her official Web site: "My successes have certainly not been without problems. During the 1970s I experienced a terribly low and painful time of dealing with alcoholism. I had Lee's unfailing support through the entire ordeal. My treatment and recovery were more than rugged." Storm said she was "fully recovered for more than 20 years." She also chronicled her alcoholism battle in an autobiography published in 1980 and titled "I Ain't Down Yet." Her work in movies in the 1940s when she starred in dozens of B-movies -- mostly Westerns -- was great preparation when television became big in the early 1950s, she said. Her first TV series, "My Little Margie" was a radio show transferred to TV as a summer replacement for "I Love Lucy" in 1952. "I was overwhelmed by the immediate success of it," she said. "During the next four years, millions of people saw the 126 episodes of 'Margie' on TV and listened to separate, live episodes on network radio," Storm said. Her next sitcom was "The Gale Storm Show: Oh! Susanna," airing from 1956 until 1960. Storm played the social director on a cruise ship. Along with film, radio and TV, Storm recorded several top-10 pop hits for Dot Records in the 1950s. "I was thrilled when my very first record, 'I Hear You Knockin' ,' sold over a million copies and won for me the coveted 'gold' record," she wrote. "After that, my hit records included 'Dark Moon,' 'Ivory Tower,' 'Teen Age Prayer,' and 'Memories Are Made Of This .'" Her three Hollywood Walk of Fame stars are for recording, radio and television, according to the Hollywood Chamber of Commerce. She acted in a few TV episodes in the 1980s, including "The Love Boat" and "Murder She Wrote." Storm married Paul Masterson in 1988 after Bonnell died. Her second husband died in 1996.

Thai banks always close on July 1 for a mid-year accounting day. This year is no exception. All banks in Thailand will be closed Wednesday, this week. ATMs will be working, but if you are expecting an international money transfer, you won't get it until Thursday, July 2. The banks will close again on Tuesday, July 7 for Asarnha Bucha Day.

Whether you do or not, you didn't make up this one. Every bit of what you wrote is all absolutely true and correct and I know that from personal experience. Again, many farang make a mistake by viewing these boys through western-cultured eyes. These boys don't see themselves as slutty prostitutes (and neither do I). They see what they're doing as simply a way of making some additional money. It's not a bad way to do it. They work whatever hours they choose without having to spend 8 to 12 hours a day working their butts off to make peanuts at a 7-Eleven or something. It's a way of supplementing their income from other jobs, making money to pay school tuition, pay their room rent, or just a way to make some pocket money when they don't have much else to do. Some nights they make money and some nights they don't, but apparently they think the odds are in their favor because there are sure plenty of them out there most of the time. I've met several this way and every one of them have been very nice, honest, and seemed to truly enjoy their time with their 'customer.' Some are gay and some are not, but the ones I've met are very good at what they do and generally are much more sophisticated and better educated than the average bar boy. Many farangs think the way to spend their evenings in Bangkok is to go to the bars, having their eardrums blasted out by excessively loud music volume, spending hundreds and hundreds of baht paying rip-off prices for drinks while being high-pressured by the street touts and mama-sans, paying exorbitant off fees, and paying 1000 to 1500 baht more in tips for the bar boys. If you enjoy that, wonderful, but not me. I haven't been to a Bangkok bar in years and I'm not planning to go to any of them when I'm in Bangkok. I don't enjoy them and I can think of a lot better things to do with my money than wasting it in the Bangkok bars. If I'm looking for a boy at night I'll be out there around the Saranrom Park-Grand Palace vicinity. I have a feeling if more farang would give it a try, HeyGay and I will have company. And before anyone starts calling me cheap, that 500 baht is what the boys out there ask for. If they were asking for more, I'd pay it. Sometimes I do anyway.

'Gayby Boom': Children of Gay Couples Speak Out By John Blake CNN CNN -- Jesse Levey is a Republican activist who says he believes in family values, small government and his lesbian mothers' right to marry. Levey is part of the "gayby boom" generation. The 29-year-old management consultant is the son of a lesbian couple who chose to have a child through artificial insemination. He's their only child. Critics of same-sex marriage say people such as Levey will grow up shunned and sexually confused. Yet he says he's a "well-adjusted heterosexual" whose upbringing proves that love, not gender, makes a family. "You can imagine what my parents thought when I was 13 and listening to Rush Limbaugh everyday," Levey says. "But my family had strong family values. I was raised in a loving, caring household that let me be a free thinker." The modern gay rights movement began 40 years ago June 28 during the Stonewall Riots in New York City. While much of the controversy surrounding gay rights today has centered on same-sex marriage, a battle is brewing over another family issue: Is it bad for children to be raised by gay or lesbian parents. It damages the children, says Dale O'Leary, author of "One Man, One Woman: A Catholics Guide to Defending Marriage." She says that all children have a natural desire for a parent of each gender. But children of same-sex couples are forced to repress that desire because their parents won't accept it, she says. Their parents won't acknowledge their children's needs because they don't want to admit that they have caused their children to suffer. "A baby is not a trophy -- the child's welfare has to be considered," she says. "These children are more likely to experiment with same-sex relationships. They're more likely to be confused and hurt." Children of same-sex couples come out of the closet O'Leary says she doesn't personally know any same-sex parents or their children. That's the problem, some children of same-sex children say. So many people are talking about them; not enough are talking to them, they say. Some gayby boomers say they are tired of hearing that their family isn't legitimate. It's an argument many have heard since they were children. They learned that they didn't fit the definition of the "right" family, and worried how others would react if they found out about their parents. The result: the children of same-sex couples often lived lives that were more closeted than their parents. "Many of us were so closeted that we didn't know others like us were out there," says Danielle Silber, a 26-year-old fundraiser for the International Rescue Committee, who was raised by lesbian mothers and gay fathers in Takoma Park, Maryland. "In middle school, because of pervasive homophobia and taunting, I didn't tell any of my new friends in school about my family to the point where I wouldn't invite them to my birthday parties," Silber says. Silber says she didn't tell her parents about her fear of harassment because she was afraid to stand up for her family in school even though she was proud of them. "Although I would normally turn to my family, I couldn't because I was ashamed that I was ashamed of them," she says. Shame has now turned to pride for some gayby boomers. Many are now adults. They're writing memoirs, searching one another out online and have even formed their own support and advocacy group. Their numbers are increasing as well, according to COLAGE (Children of Lesbians and Gays Everywhere). At least 10 million people have one or more lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender parent. "As Harvey Milk [the first openly gay man elected to a major public office] said, the more people know us, the less they'll vote against us," says Silber, coordinator of COLAGE's New York chapter. "The more our voices are heard, the less other people will be bigoted." Who do you call mom? The more the children of same-sex couples come out, though, the more questions outsiders have about their unusual upbringing. Some common ones: Who do you call mom when you have two mothers? Did you ever miss not having a mom or dad? And the most tedious for most gayby boomers: What's your sexual orientation? The answers to these questions are as varied as the lives of gayby boomers themselves. Take the question about missing a mom and dad. Jeff DeGroot, 23, was raised by two lesbian mothers in Oregon. He doesn't buy the argument that there's a void in his life because he never had a dad toss a baseball to him. "My parents can throw a baseball and take me hiking just as well as any man could," DeGroot says. "I've always had a plethora of male role models. I never felt that I was missing anything by not having that dad for me." DeGroot does periodically share one struggle with other same-sex children -- what do call his parents. Since he's raised by two lesbians, who does he call mom? Other same-sex children address the same linguistic challenge by either calling their parents by their first names, or by using expressions like, "my other dad," or "kind-of-my mom," same-sex children researchers say. "If I'm on one side of the house and I want to talk to my biological mom, I'll yell, 'Mother,' '' DeGroot says, chuckling. "If Meg [one of his mothers] says, 'Yes?' I'll say, 'No, other mother.' " Dealing with teasing from classmates and the community isn't so easy, same-sex children say. It's not unusual to hear children of same-sex couples say that they were teased by classmates, but some of that may depend on their age and where they grew up. DeGroot, for example grew up in Corvallis, Oregon. The city is in a college town and in a liberal state. DeGroot's age may help, too. He didn't grow up in the 1970s, but came of age recently when gay couples were generally more accepted. DeGroot's biological mother, Elisabeth, says her community didn't criticize her or her partner for raising their son. Some of her son's friends actually thought their son was cool for having two lesbian moms, she says. "It was so in being gay and lesbian," she says. "Some of Jeff's classmates would say, 'Oh, you got two moms? I got to meet them!' '' Elisabeth's partner, Meg Grear, says she gets upset when she hears critics say that children of same-sex will grow up physiologically damaged. "That makes me mad. I know better. There's Jeff," she says. Do gay parents produce gay kids? Some children of same-sex couples say their upbringing actually makes them psychologically stronger. Abigail Garner, author of "Families Like Mine: Children of Gay Parents Tell It Like It is," calls her upbringing a "fabulous gift." She is the daughter of two gay dads and a straight mom. She says her interviews with other children of gay or lesbian parents showed that those who shared her upbringing tend to be more empathetic and unafraid to take unpopular stands. "I'm not surprised when I hear gay parents say their child stood up for the kid who was bullied in class or reached out to the one with a disability," Garner says. Some of the same children, though, face more difficulties dealing with questions about their sexual orientation. Garner, 37, who identifies as heterosexual, says some repress their sexuality because they don't want to give ammunition to their parents' critics. "I know story after story of children who started to question their sexuality but stayed quiet about it out of fear that the truth would reflect poorly on their parents," Garner says. Science has already weighed in on the question of whether same-sex couples tend to raise gay children -- and if there's something wrong if they do. According to the American Psychological Association, numerous research shows that most kids of same-sex households describe themselves as heterosexual in roughly the same proportion as conventional families. The association also says that homosexuality is not deviant behavior but a normal expression of human sexuality. The APA also concludes that gay parents are just as capable as straight parents, and that laws barring same-sex couples from adopting have no scientific basis. Those laws, however, do exist. At least six states have explicit restrictions on adoptions by gays and lesbians: Florida, Mississippi, Arkansas, Utah, Nebraska and Minnesota, according to the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force. The laws may have been passed to protect the family, but allowing gay people to marry could actually strengthen the family, says Jesse Levey, the Republican activist who was raised by two lesbians. "The conservative argument for family values is that we should be in married couples; I agree," Levey says. "If we want to see children raised by married couples, then we should let gay people get married." A Republican lobbying for same-sex marriages might seem odd, but Levey says he embraces the conservative notion of individual freedom. He became a Republican at 12. Once, he sought permission for his middle school class to listen to Rush Limbaugh (he says he no longer listens to Limbaugh). "When you grow up with Lesbian mothers, you can't get your ears pierced to rebel," he says. "I became a Republican." Today, Levey sees his parents' choice not as an expression of rebellion, but as a desire for something that's actually a conservative virtue -- a loving family. "I believe in family values, but family is about taking care of your children and respecting one another," he says. "It doesn't matter what your sexual orientation is."

Well . . . that's one way to bring the tourists back.

I can vouch for all of that. Right around the corner from BeHigh (Pradiphat, Soi 21 in Bangkok) is the Embassy Hotel. It's rather run down, but it makes a decent short-time place for about 700 baht. It's really not all that bad if you decide you want to stay there too, but don't expect luxury accommodations by any stretch of the imagination. Also, it's very convenient to the Chatuchak Market and the JJ Market. Saranrom Park, which is very close to the Grand Palace, and the vicinity is definitely jumping with available boys, most of whom ask for 500 baht plus taxi fare back. HeyGay is not exaggerating when he says about 100 boys were out there. Sometimes it's even more than that. Don't believe me? Go there some night about 11:00pm and see for yourself. You'll find a lot of military and university boys. Also, yes, a lot more boys who are having difficulty making it in the bars are turning to GayRomeo in hopes of hookups or, better still, a sugar daddy. I concur with every word of HeyGay's post.

I've heard stories like that too, but I'm not sure how much truth there is in them. If those stories are true, that's one thing, but I can picture those as rumor too. I would have thought if scams like that are actually taking place, then the embassies would be raising hell about it. Whenever I've bought something at a duty free shop, they either seal the bag with staples or they deliver the bag to the plane themselves. Either way, though, it is still a good idea to make damned sure as to what's in the bag before they seal it or you walk out of the shop with it. It's also a good idea to keep the receipt, not only for customs inspection when you arrive at your destination, but again as proof you paid for what's in that bag.

For those of you not familiar with it, Gay Romeo is one of the most popular gay personals sites and is especially popular with the Thai boys trying to hook up with farang. http://www.gayromeo.com _____ Hello, Guess what we’re doing! We’re giving you a free PLUS subscription. That means for the next months you will be able to benefit from all of the features that other PLUS users have. Why? Well, there are a few good reasons. First and most importantly, we’d like to thank you for being a part of our community. Secondly, we realize that GayRomeo is still one of the smaller communities in your country. And having lots of interesting local users is essential! Finally, we’d like to show you why other PLUS users choose to pay for these services. For that reason we will give 100 days free PLUS subscription to everyone who registers a new profile in your country within the next 3 months. It will be activated automatically when they register. So invite your friends to join GayRomeo. Now is the perfect time. We’ll be very happy if you do. After all, word of mouth is still the best type of publicity. All our users benefit, you enjoy GayRomeo with your friends, and we can concentrate on further developments and improvements. Your subscription is already active. And don’t worry! Continuation of the subscription is NOT automatic. You will not be billed at the end of this promotional offer and we will not rip you off by deleting your content. If you decide that a PLUS account is not for you then you can always make use of the standard FREE account. If at the end of the promotion your community is still not large enough we may decide to extend the offer. In either case we will inform you again by message. We hope that you make use of the many added benefits that come with a PLUS subscription. There are several features that can make your GayRomeo profile easier to use and much more personal. If you are not familiar with the many features and benefits of a PLUS subscription you can see the details here: “Administration > GayRomeo PLUS > Benefits” We wish you continuous fun on GayRomeo!

When you compare the taxes imposed on your New York hotel bills, isn't that based on your place of residence? It seems to me that in Thailand the 2 tier pricing is based on your race. Even those of us who reside in Thailand and can prove it are still charged the farang price, although every once in a while we manage to get a reduced price or the Thai price. Either way, I agree with you that the 2 tier pricing is unlikely to be the sole cause of people deciding not to come to Thailand. For most people it is a minor thing, but when you have enough minor things, eventually it all adds up to a major thing, and that's when people start deciding to have their holiday somewhere else, such as the Black Hole of Calcutta.

Actually, yes it is correct. Farang is one of those words that have more than just one definition, just as in English "rare" can mean scarce, but it can also mean the way you want your steak cooked. Farang does mean a Caucasian foreigner and it also is the Thai word for "guava." It is even spelled the same. You can easily check that out at: http://www.thai-language.com . In the "lookup" box enter 'guava.' Then enter 'foreigner.' You'll see for yourself.

This is the first I've ever heard of such a case and I'm not so sure I swallow the story quite the way it is told. Hundreds, perhaps thousands of people pass through the airport every day. Why would these two be singled out to be victims of a crime like this? Nevertheless, if one assumes the story is true, then the obvious thing to do would be not to enter the duty free shops at all. If nothing else, based on other reported incidents I wouldn't want to be caught shoplifting in Thailand. A minor shoplifting incident in Thailand is often taken very seriously. You might recall the incident several weeks ago in which an Australian woman was accused of taking some sort of a place mat from a bar and damned near ended up with a prison sentence over the incident. It took requests from her government and a lot of publicity to get her out of it. I recall an incident not too long ago when a farang was caught shoplifting a couple batteries from a convenience store. He ended up in jail for about a week and paying a hefty fine, and I think he was damned lucky that nothing beyond that happened to him. When I go shopping, I keep the receipt with me until I've left the store and returned home. Even then, I keep it for a couple days before throwing it out. That might be a little over-cautious, but if someone ever tries to accuse me of shoplifting, I'm going to have the proof that I paid right there with me.

No need. You run a legitimate gay venue and you have our full support. In all honesty, I was not aware of the existence of Candle Paradise Spa at all until you posted. Next time I'm in Bangkok I intend to drop by and give it a try. I hope everyone else who reads this board does the same thing.

I don't see how what other countries and other cities do would be relevant. Somehow, I can't picture Philadelphia, for example, imposing fees for certain venues and justifying it by saying, "Well, that's how they do it in Thailand."

Do they truly believe if they start launching nuclear weapons at other countries they would have a prayer of surviving the outcome?

I would be happy if they do that, but we allow gay venues to post, no strings attached.

They don't. Farangs are Caucasian foreigners. You won't hear Thais referring to any other race as 'farang.'

I didn't say it was more objectionable. I said it is also objectionable. I really don't see the necessity for two tiered pricing at all, anywhere.

That's right, but I don't think that's going to happen. As I said on another thread, gay venues are welcome to advertise here without charge. I also said other gay venues advertise here. I don't understand what fountainhall has against this particular ad.

Of course not. I doubt that, in and of itself, would stop anyone from coming. It's the combination of all the factors, including that one, that stop people from coming.

Fountainhall, the one aspect of your post with which I disagree is that part in which you talk about the two tier policies in other countries. The fact that other countries do it does not, in my opinion, justify Thailand doing it in light of the current tourist industry troubles. I also don't see any reason why other countries do it. Again, how much could they really be making to justify the practice?

I'm with GT on this one. We have always allowed gay venues to post ads here without charge. Those 'floodgates' have been open since the very day this board came into existence. As long as the advertisers don't go overboard with it, why not? It brings more customers to the gay venues, and maybe helps to keep them from ending up closed due to lack of customers, and also lets the gay community know that these venues even exist. It also lets people know about it when special events are being planned. I regularly post Casa Pascal's menus and ads for La Cage, without charge. Nobody has ever objected to those. Why are you objecting to this particular ad? I'm sure if we suddenly get so many ads being posted that it interferes with the nature of this forum, then we'll do something about it. For example, Candlepspa posted his ad on both this forum and our 'Gay Asia' forum. I don't think that is necessary, but so far I don't see that it has caused a problem.

That's a good point, but the USA doesn't depend on foreign tourists for the tourism industry to survive anywhere near to the degree Thailand depends on it. Thailand certainly has a much greater incentive to attract foreign tourists than the USA does. I think when comparing the USA tourism industry to the Thai tourism industry, it would be correct to say that a major downturn in foreign tourist numbers in the USA means less profit. In Thailand it means huge losses. I agree that would certainly bring more tourists to Thailand, but I believe the main problem is getting tourists to spend a lot of money once they arrive. In the past few months many of the articles I've read are quite clear on the idea that in many instances the numbers of foreign tourists coming to Thailand is only part of the issue because the tourists that do come just are not spending money anywhere near to the extent to which they had been spending in the past. That part of the problem can be solved if something can be done to decrease the strength of the baht against foreign currencies. I also think part of the problem is all this crazy building that's going on in Pattaya and now extending to "The Dark Side" as well (with no major improvements to the infrastructure). If there is a square inch of land available anywhere in the Pattaya vicinity, someone is building on it. I don't know who they think is going to be buying all these units. Are they creating a de facto ghost town? That remains to be seen. But one thing is for sure: At the moment it's a buyer's market. That's another good point. While a debate constantly goes on as to whether the two tiered pricing is justified, very few foreign tourists like it whether it is justified or not. I don't know how much that pricing affects tourism, but to me the obvious question is: Is two tiered pricing truly necessary? Does the two tiered pricing really bring in so much money that Thailand would significantly suffer without it? I wouldn't personally object if admission prices to both public and private venues were on the order of 50 baht or so above Thai prices, but sometimes it's two or even three times the price Thais pay. I find it very difficult to see the justification in that. I also think the two tiered pricing is totally unjustifiable on public transportation, such as the baht buses. I fail to see any reason why a foreigner should pay anything more than a Thai person pays. I don't see any validity in the argument that farang have more money than most Thais have, therefore they should pay more. While I don't think the additional cost for farang is going to break anyone's bank account, I can certainly see the annoyance that a person feels if he is being penalized because he was fortunate enough in life to make more money than many Thais make. To my mind, even if Bill Gates was here and wanted to ride a baht bus, he shouldn't have to pay one baht more than Thai people pay. If nothing else, I think the Thai tourism industry should take into consideration that enough foreigners dislike the two tiered pricing to make it a serious issue. If they ever take Astrrro's advice about subsidizing airfares, why not also subsidize public tourist attractions and public transportation in order to solve the two tiered pricing problem? I also think Thailand needs to take a much closer and serious look at the way tourists are all too often treated by baht bus drivers, taxi drivers who refuse to turn on their meters, and, often enough, abuses on the part of the police. I think the Thai authorities need to understand that tourists don't come here to find themselves victims of intimidation, abuse, and rip-offs. If I had my way, baht bus drivers, taxi drivers, police officers, and anyone else who engages in that kind of behavior would lose their jobs the same day. If the Thai authorities would actually get serious about it, instead of just talking about it all the time, that would quickly put a stop to it. All of this is what I'm talking about when I say that I think Thailand needs to take a serious look at changing the paradigm.

They keep coming up with everything to "fix" the tourist industry except what they really need to do to attract people. Obviously the Thai government can't help things that are beyond their control, such as the protest rallies every 14 seconds, but there is plenty they can do that is easily within their control. The first thing they can do is do away with these asinine bar operating hours. That's one of the most common complaints. They can also do away with unnecessary things that anger tourists, such as the 150 baht ATM fees. They need to provide tourists with incentives to choose Thailand as their holiday destination. Telling adults it's beddy-bye time at 1:00am, ripping people off at ATMs, allowing police harassment instead of police protection, making things overly complex at immigration, arresting incoming families because they brought too many cigarettes with them, etc. is hardly the way to get people to come to Thailand. What I think Thailand needs to do is have appropriate government officials sit down with foreign tourist representatives and interested individuals, and revamp this whole mess. I don't think the "tailspin" will stop without a complete paradigm change.

Don't think that hasn't crossed my mind . . .