Gaybutton

Makro is a major bulk buying shopping center in Thailand. If you are familiar with outlets such as Costco or Sam's Club in the USA, Makro is similar in nature. Today was the opening of the Pattaya location. The location is on Sukhumvit Highway, very close to Underwater World. We went to have a look this afternoon around 1:00pm and it was very crowded. Apparently a lot of locals were looking forward to the opening day. Of course, prices are much lower than just about anywhere else if you are buying in bulk. Makro also has a full featured grocery store, with many items sold individually and in bulk. We noticed a great many items we've never seen in any other grocery stores. If you are a resident in Pattaya, it's well worth a look. Plenty of free samples were being given out as well. According to my own observations, as well as those of the Thais we were with, prices are either the same as other grocery stores or less expensive. Produce, especially, is as much as 30% less expensive than elsewhere. There is also a much wider variety of seafood available than I've seen elsewhere. You can even buy venison, ostrich, and crocodile meat if you wish. Makro is a membership store. I don't know if you can buy without a membership or if a membership entitles you to further discounts, but for farang retirees getting a membership is easy and it's free. You need to have your passport and some sort of documentation that shows your residence address. They also ask for your mobile phone number. Even with the crowds, I had my membership within ten minutes. For the time being they are issuing temporary membership cards, which can be traded in for a permanent card at some point in January. The hours are 6:00am to 11:00pm.

Are we talking about the same thing? I'll amend what I said and try to make it clear that I would not advocate parking where your vehicle where it would obstruct the entrance to a business and also would not obstruct people's ability to walk. Give me a break, willya? You don't really think I am suggesting that people park a car in front of Uniform bar or Villa Rouge, do you? Even I am not that crazy. I think you know exactly what I'm talking about when it comes to parking cars and motorcycles.

I don't know if that is always true. I'm a product of higher education, but I think many posters here would say that your description of those without a higher education would fit me perfectly. Maybe at the university level I never learned anything . . . Oh well, if I could only do it over again, next time I'll go somewhere other than Big Bubba's University and Car Wash. That's a shame, too. If I had learned anything I probably would have been much easier to get along with.

La Cage seems to be going all out for December!

I never said that either, but my personal brand of xenophobia and bigotry has nothing to do with deciding where to park. That parking place in the rear is where I normally park when I go to Sunee Plaza, if there is a space. Often there isn't. If there isn't a parking space I park elsewhere and yes, it is everyone's right to park on a public road, although I don't park anywhere that is going to obstruct an entrance to a business and I don't see anyone else posting that they would do so either. So, what's the problem? As far as being a lazy driver, if that comment includes me, I live nearly 6 miles from Sunee Plaza. Very sorry, but I'm definitely too lazy to walk 6 miles when I have a perfectly good car. I don't understand your belligerent tone on this thread. You're not usually like that and it's coming as a surprise. I fail to see what point you're trying to make. You're accusing people of intentionally parking so as to obstruct business entrances and nobody has said they do that. Public streets are just that, public. When some of these places put out barriers to prevent people from parking, they are breaking the law and they are doing something they have no right to do.

Where is this coming from? Where did I say or even intimate any such thing? The ethnicity of the bar ownership has nothing to do with my personal stance about where it is and is not ok to park. What do you think I do, double park, get out of the car, check who owns the place, and base the ethnicity of the ownership as the decision maker as to where to park? I thought I made my opinion clear. Why are you twisting it around to make it appear as if I include bigotry as a basis for parking decisions? By the way, how do you know the 'Arab place' is scruffy?

Oh, come on. Nobody is talking about intentionally blocking access to a business. I, at least, am talking about businesses trying to prevent people from parking where parking is legitimate. Second Road, for example. Several of the foot massage places and Indian tailor shops place barriers in the street so that people can't park in front of their businesses. In the street, where parking is perfectly legal and legitimate. That's what I'm talking about and I still don't see how parking in those kinds of spots could possibly be hurting their businesses. Even if it was hurting their businesses, my attitude would be 'tough luck.' Preventing cars and motorbikes from parking where parking is legal is not something I would consider acceptable. On the other hand, intentionally parking such that the vehicle is preventing access to a business is also something I would consider unacceptable.

That is a good point. I keep bringing this up, but nobody seems to come up with an answer and neither can I: Whether it is right or wrong, polite or impolite, legal or illegal, my question is why do they put up these barriers in the first place? That's definitely on my "I Don't Get It" list. If a car parks in front of their business, how is that stopping anyone from patronizing their business? If I park in front of their business, if I want to shop there I can do so easily. If someone else is already parked there, I don't think I would mind trying to find somewhere else to park. But if I had intended to shop at their business and found a barrier obstructing my ability to park there, then I wouldn't shop there at all. What is so terrible about a car or motorcycle parking in front of their business, especially if there is a sidewalk between the curb and the entrance to their shop? Astrrro brings up another point. If I park in front of a business that doesn't want me parking there, almost invariably they come charging out of their shop angrily telling me to park somewhere else. Persian or anything else, almost all of them seem to do that. Why? What's wrong with politely asking someone to please park elsewhere? They don't even ask if I intended to patronize their establishment.

The bottom line is that it is quite possible to live in Pattaya with a relatively small income and still be able to live nicely. If you prefer Thai food and the countryside, you can live even more inexpensively. You don't have to have big bucks to be able to live decently and enjoy living in Thailand.

"I came for the waters." - Humphrey Bogart, 'Casablanca'

Your comments are very interesting to me. So many of the comments on this thread are all about the farang who are embarrassed. Your post brings up the idea that some of the Thai boys might feel the same embarrassment, even some of the bar boys. I can understand why boys in Pattaya might feel less inhibited than boys in Bangkok might feel. Pattaya is a "different animal." The entire gay area, from Boyztown to Sunee Plaza is primarily gay. While many heterosexual guys and couples are around, I think the gays within that area greatly outnumber them and unless they are blind I think most of the heterosexuals are well aware they are within a primarily gay area. While there are some girlie bars in the Boyztown area, most are on Walking Street and the north area of Pattaya, quite separated from the gay area. There is far less likelihood of encountering intolerant people in the gay area of Pattaya then in Bangkok. For whatever reasons, Pattaya seems to me to be much more gay-friendly than anywhere else in Thailand, which might be the reason your friend had no problem walking hand-in-hand in Pattaya, but it was a different story in Bangkok. Also, Pattaya is a holiday city. The city attracts more farang holiday makers than anything else, while Bangkok is a tremendous city that simply happens to have a few gay areas, but holiday making is not the basic major focus of Bangkok. That too might be a factor that accounts for the difference.

There is one aspect of casual sex that I would consider harmful . . . not getting any.

Windows 7 Complaints Begin Users of the new operating system say the upgrading process is buggy. But once the kinks are worked out, customers are liking Windows 7 a lot more than Vista. By David Goldman, CNNMoney.com staff writer NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Microsoft launched Windows 7 in late October to much fanfare. But, just like with previous Windows upgrades, complaints about bugs have already started rolling in. A whopping 31% of clients have reported problems with upgrading to Windows 7, according to a recent survey of more than 100,000 customers conducted by consumer helpdesk firm iYogi. "Most of the problems that customers have with Windows 7 have to do with installation, or application and data migration," said Vishal Dhar, co-founder of iYogi. "These are all fixable problems, but they're annoyances and they're time consuming." One common gripe, experienced by 9% of installers, is that the half-hour to an hour-long upgrade process gets to the "62% completed" point and then freezes. It's a problem that Microsoft is aware of, and can be fixed by rebooting the computer, going into advanced settings, and typing in a code that instructs the computer to ignore plug-ins. However, issues didn't stop with the upgrade process. Many users still experienced glitches even after successfully installing Windows 7 on their machines. Most common among those complaints was that basic "applet" programs, like Mail, Movie Maker and Photo Gallery, were missing. That's because Windows 7 deletes those programs and makes users download them from the Windows Live Essential Web site. IYogi said 26% of their customers were confused about that extra step. Others had problems getting their computers to work properly: Eight percent said their DVD drives couldn't be found and 2% couldn't sync their iPhones with Windows 7. One in seven users also complained that the sleek new "Aero" theme doesn't work. The Aero theme enables users to see through a window to view the desktop or other programs that are open behind it. According to iYogi, most of the 14% of users that have problems with Aero don't have the graphics capabilities on their PCs to handle the program. Other common complaints included an inability to view file extensions, too many "mini-dumps" (memory images saved on the computer when it crashes), problems with the "Aero snap" feature, changes to custom icons and problems with the new taskbar. Microsoft, which debuted Windows 7 on Oct. 22, did not return requests for comment. Once the bugs from upgrading have been worked out, users have had a relatively hassle-free experience. And those who bought a new computer with Windows 7 preloaded have seen the fewest issues. "Customers who finally get it up and running love Windows 7," said Dhar. "We haven't had a lot of people calling for usability issues, because it's a much more intuitive interface than Windows XP." That's not to say that Windows 7 is perfect. According to Zeus Kerravala, an analyst at Yankee Group, one of the biggest annoyances with the new operating system is that the "ribbon menus" at the top of programs have been redesigned and must be relearned. In previous Windows versions, the menus remained very consistent (File, Edit, View, Insert, etc.), but in Windows 7, they can be wildly different from application to application. "It took me a long while to figure out how to print," said Kerravala. "Microsoft tried to improve the user interface, but there's a learning curve because it's inconsistent." Microsoft also did away with many favorite applications like Windows Movie Maker, which is particularly surprising given the propensity of cell phone videos and Flip video camera movies. But all of the gripes about Windows 7 pale in comparison to the angry complaints about Microsoft's previous Windows iteration, Windows Vista. That version was an outright disaster after it was released in 2007. Vista was plagued by bugs, software incompatibilities, sluggishness and annoying security alerts. The episode nearly destroyed the tech giant's reputation with consumers. "While there are a few bugs, I haven't seen or heard of any show-stoppers," said Laura DiDio, principal analyst at ITIC. "In fact, just the opposite. Some Vista users can't wait to upgrade. So far, this has been a home run for Microsoft."

I agree with what has been said above, but the part that's on my "I Don't Get It" list is why any of these businesses object to people parking there in the first place. How is that hurting their business? If it's a public street, they are violating the law when they put up those barriers. And I would not patronize a business that prevents me from being able to park there. What am I supposed to do, park several blocks away and walk back? Not me. Some people say just tell them you want to shop in their store or go into their bar, or whatever it is, and they'll remove the barriers. Fine? Now, unless they have someone stationed outside, how does one go about getting them to remove the barriers? My favorites are the Indian tailors that place barriers in the street in front of their shops. Nobody is shopping there anyway.

Rules? In Pattaya? Surely you jest. I don't blame your friend for refusing to tolerate an arrogant attitude, but he was risking coming out of wherever he was going and finding his bike vandalized. He was lucky. For whatever reasons, many businesses don't want people parking unless they are going to patronize their own business. Unless parking somehow blocks access, I've never understood what the problem is, but that's the way it is. As far as rules go, it is probably best to park where you see other motorbikes parked. If there is a curb, then parking is fair game provided the curb has no striped markings, especially the red and white stripes. The police will leave a ticket and lock up the motorbike and then you have to go to the police station to pay the fine. A major pain-in-the-ass. I am so accustomed to the parking objections that I don't pay attention anymore. To me, arrogant or not, if someone comes out to object to my parking I just move on and find somewhere else to park. To me it's not a battle worth fighting because then I have to spend my time worrying about coming back later and finding my car vandalized, my tires slashed, or even the possibility of being attacked. Those kinds of things do happen, so I don't make an issue of it. I just park somewhere else and then I don't have to worry.

Speaking of ignorant dolts, how about this? And this is just today! Here are links to two versions of the story, both versions with photos: http://www.pattayaone.net/news/2009/december/news_11_12_52.shtml http://www.pattayadailynews.com/shownews.php?IDNEWS=0000011398

Sorry to have replaced the name with asterisks, but posting anyone's real name without their permission is verboten around here.

The following appears in PATTAYA ONE: _____ Suggestions of Major Bar Crackdown by Police Following Meeting with Provincial Police Chief Pattaya, December 10 [PATTAYA ONE NEWS] : On Wednesday Afternoon at the Cesar Palace Hotel in Central Pattaya, Police Major General Tanaert, the Commander of Chonburi Provincial Police, chaired a meeting of over 200 bar owners from around the Pattaya area. The General went through all the laws regarding operating such venues, including opening and closing times, minimum age of employees and patrons and registration papers to be completed for employees by the bar owner. One interesting point coming from the meeting was a statement by the General who warned any bars found to be paying off Police Officers in exchange for any form of protection would be prosecuted and the officers themselves would be removed from the Police. A special task force has now been set up to ensure that rules are adhered to and bar owners now fear a bar crackdown is imminent, which could not come at a worse time with High Season upon us which is a time of year when many bars do their best trade and rely on the relaxed bar trading regulations to ensure they can make the most of this busy period.

I agree. These holiday makers, regardless of where they come from, are not ignorant dolts without sophistication enough to realize that different countries have different attitudes toward nudity. I fail to see much of an excuse for them not to check. We would know to check. Why don't they? The only answers I can think of are that they don't care about the customs or they truly don't realize that it may be objectionable. Maybe they're ignorant dolts after all.

I don't think so. There is a good number of boys using the gay personals sites, but the numbers don't even begin to compare to the numbers of boys that work in the bars.

"Well, they've got their schedule and I've got mine." -George C. Scott, 'Patton'

Any time, old bean, any time . . . I think Jomtien raises the most important issue. What time is dinner, anyhow?

For those who do not know what Saturday is talking about, he was a moderator on the Pattaya Passions board. He has resigned as a moderator on that board. There has been a recent dispute involving the operation of that board. I was a registered member of that board, but I recently canceled my own membership due to the side of the dispute with which I took issue. I am going to try not to say anything more about it with posts other than this one or get into specifics because I do not believe in using one board to vent about another. In Saturday's case he posted his message on the Pattaya Passions board, but the message was deleted without explanation within a few hours. I authorized him to post his message here, if he so chose. If he had not posted here I would not have written this post. But since he has, I feel this post is necessary as far as it goes. Saturday's reference to 'banter' with me has to do with a different mild dispute between Saturday and me on that board. I was threatened by the board owner that he would cancel my posting privileges if I continued to "harass" his moderators. Saturday did not see any of the banter between us as harassment and considered it to be the same as I considered it to be . . . a debate between our opposing positions. However, at least one of my posts ended up deleted by the board owner, telling me I had violated the posting rules. Neither Saturday nor I felt that any posting rules had been violated, but the board owner felt differently. Of course, I kept a copy of the deleted post, but I see no reason, so far, to post it here. That thread has been locked anyway and the issue is old news by now. I really don't want to get into this any further. I am posting this only for the purpose of trying to clarify what has been going on in light of Saturday's post above. Because I don't want to get too deeply into the specifics it still may not be clear to many of you, but I feel that if I go any further with it then this post will come across as an attempt on my part to discredit the Pattaya Passion board. That is not my intent and I have no desire to do that. Quite frankly I don't give a damn one way or the other. If anyone wishes to see what this is all about, then all you need to do is read the Pattaya Passions board and decide for yourself. If you have comments to make about the dispute, please make them on the Pattaya Passions board. I do not want this board to become involved with it and I doubt that Gay Thailand would want to see that happen either. I did, however, feel that Saturday has the right to air his views if that is what he wished to do. Now he has done that. I see no reason for anything more to be said. I also wish to state that if Gay Thailand wishes to remove this thread and/or my post I have no objection.

I also agree. One aspect of it that's on my "I Don't Get It" list is that they are usually there with other men, meaning they are not lesbians. So, what are they doing on the gay beach? Unless they're blind, there's no way they don't realize they're on a gay beach area.

Yes, there are certainly a greater number of gay holiday makers in town. The numbers seem to me to be significantly higher than the last two years, but the numbers are still down from years past. The trouble is that even with a good number of farang in town, I still see a number of bars close to empty. Regarding the bars, I really don't see a significant increase in numbers of boys, but I do see a lot of "new" boys in the various bars I visit. But I don't go to the bars all that often, so I'll defer to the observations of others. Oddly enough, there actually seems to be a lesser number of boys working the beach these days. That's on my "I Don't Get It" list because there are a hell of a lot more gay farang on the beach lately. A good number of of boys are there to be sure, but most are the "regulars" who work the beaches practically every day anyhow. I don't see very many "new" boys working the beaches lately. That's not just the way I see it. Many of my friends are also commenting about the lack of "eye candy." There were boys galore during the low season. Now that high season is here, they just have not been coming to the beach in large numbers. Perhaps at least part of the reason is this stigma among the Thai boys that dark skin is "no good," so many won't go to the beach at all because they don't want any kind of suntan. What can I say? They're so good looking, but they won't go to the beach. So, instead of loads of great looking boys displaying their bods on the beach, you end up seeing a lot more of aging overweight farang in skimpy attire. Murphy's Law strikes again!