Gaybutton

I don't know how secure it is. I've never used it, but if it helps anything I've never encountered any negative reports about it. As far as I know it is still available.

The duplicate 'gobbledegoop' post has been removed.

Good report. Thanks for posting it. Unfortunately you encountered some brainless farang, but I think you were right not to bother having words with them. If they want to be fools, there's no need to join in. At La Cage, I think I know who you were talking about. There is a true jerk who goes there on a regular basis, gets drunk, and then starts opening up a big mouth. I've seen Mike, the owner, have to kick him out more than once. If you go back and he starts up again, let Mike know. Mike will deal with him.

It's no more difficult than in a go-go bar. Besides, no law says you can't go to beer bars and go-go bars all in the same evening. Beer bar boys want to be taken off the same as go-go boys. Just like go-go bars, if a beer bar boy comes to sit next to you uninvited, you can still shoo him away or call another boy over to sit with you. But why bother? These are open air bars. You can see all the boys who work there without even setting foot inside. If you spot a boy you like, you can ask him over to sit with you before you even select your seat. Believe me, he will be happy to sit with you and now you don't have to worry about a boy you didn't care for coming to sit with you uninvited. Those boys are in the bars because it's their work. Sitting with customers is part of their job. Also, it's how they make their money. If a boy sits with you, he's expecting at least a tip. Even better for him if you take him off. That's why he's there and taking him off is exactly what he hopes you'll do. If a boy you like is already sitting with a customer, just go somewhere else and come back later. If the customer takes the boy off, or is still sitting with him when you return, chances are you've spotted a second choice somewhere in another bar.

It certainly does. Thank you very much, Mr. Bill.

No. Carrefour is on Central Road (Pattaya Klang) Central Festival has an entrance on Second Road and an entrance on Beach Road. You would have to be blind to miss it. It's a tremendous shopping mall. If you are heading north on Second Road, it will be on your left. If you get as far as Central Road, you went too far.

I think you're right. That makes it more palatable. Still, I really don't want to be subjected to a set of rules and regulations for fees. 400 baht except if . . . 150 baht except if . . . and so on. I would much rather it be here's how much a drink costs. Here's the off fee. Here's the going upstairs fee. I don't want to have to take a calculator to a bar to figure out what the evening is going to cost. But that's the way this bar works and I think I understand.

I agree with firecat69. While I do see lady-boys at many of the beer bars, unless I'm misunderstanding Luvthai's post, he is saying that the beer bars are staffed exclusively by lady-boys. That's not true. Many of the boys are somewhat on the femme side, but to say that all the beer bars are staffed by lady-boys is hardly painting an accurate picture. And as for how attractive they are, do we really need to discuss the 'in the eye of the beholder' aspect? I see posts frequently in which people are essentially saying, "What happened to all the good looking boys? They're all gone now." To them, perhaps. In my eyes Pattaya has never been better.

That's where I can agree with you. I have no dispute about taking the boys upstairs and paying 150 baht for the privilege. I think that is a good alternative too and, in many ways, can be even better than taking a boy off. My only dispute is 400 baht for an off and 150 baht for a boy to have a soft drink. If those are the prices actually being charged, then he's way off par with the rest of Sunee Plaza. Now, if your comment about "pissed off at those who have not been there lately, who jump on the bandwagon and complain" is directed at me, since I'm the only one on this thread who clearly stated I haven't been there in a long time, I'll give you three guesses about how much I care about what pisses you off.

Neither can I. What I was trying to say was that the fact that the beer bars don't have those things is part of the list of things I do like about them.

Thank you for taking the time to write that post. It was quite clear and it worked!

I didn't get any figures at all. I haven't even been to that bar since the upstairs fees came into existence. The figures come from the first post on this thread - someone who has been to that bar, and recently. Is there some reason I should have assumed he was lying or was mistaken? And, yes, believe it or not I actually know what the word 'off' means. Isn't that amazing? Do you know any other bars in the Sunee Plaza area that are charging 400 baht for an off? As for what I may or may not be "on," that's really none of your business, is it? He doesn't have to worry. If the prices are as Taylorsquare said (and I have heard the same from several others), your friend won't get much of any.

I seem to recall reading that too. I think that was a suggested amount, but in no way a requirement. The problem the boys face is that many customers don't have any idea how much to tip or don't even realize (or care) that a tip is expected. If I take a boy upstairs, I would tip in accordance with short time, what we do and he well he does it. I think from the boy's perspective, being taken upstairs is tantamount to being taken off. He knows you're not taking him up there to ask him about his aunt's recipe for fried rice. However, I don't think you would be stepping out of line if you tip him a bit less than you would if you took him off for short time. Upstairs he doesn't have to change clothes, doesn't have to go anywhere with a total stranger, and doesn't have to pay for a taxi to take him back where he came from. He does his thing with you and bye bye. That takes a lot less time and effort and affords him a better opportunity to get another customer once the present customer leaves. I would think in most cases 500 to 900 baht tips would be plenty, again depending on what you do and how well he performs.

You can't really go by what others tell you. You have to try these places and decide for yourself. However, for what it's worth, only last month a friend of mine tried Duo and said he really enjoyed it.

I would add low music volume, so that you can converse with someone, can hear yourself think, and you don't leave with your ears pounding and throbbing. Also, no pushy mama-sans.

I fully agree with that statement. When I tip, I'm tipping because the service was good. I'm not really thinking about how much money the recipient of the tip makes. Quite frankly, that's not my problem. I believe a tip should be earned, not simply given automatically. That aspect of it is my major objection to service charges added to bills. I want to tip because I liked the service and it makes me feel good to tip for it. I've never understood the logic behind service charges. Personally, instead of a service charge I'd rather simply see a higher price and a notification that tipping is not necessary. "They make their money the old fashioned way. They earn it." - John Houseman, Smith-Barney commercial

Let him think what he likes and let him call me "beyond stupid" all he wants. Let him think I don't know the realities of Sunee Plaza or that I don't ever go there. I'm sorry his spy network is failing him, but that's beside the point. My goodness, there must be a lot of people in Sunee Plaza saying to Soi10Tom, "You know something? I haven't seen Gaybutton around here in quite a while." My point is very simple. If someone, even a crazed kid, vandalizes my vehicle or tries to shake me down for money, I'm calling the police. I couldn't care less if that same kid tries to get out of it by saying I was involved in sex with him. Soi10Tom is free to believe whatever he wants. I don't care if he is in Sunee Plaza every hour of every day, that too is beside the point, unless he can explain how his presence more often in Sunee Plaza than my own makes him more likely to know how the police would handle this kind of situation. He thinks it will even occur to the kid to try get out of it by making a sexual allegation and that the police would lend the slightest credence to it. Apparently he thinks the police will simply take the kid's word for it and place the farang under arrest while the kid goes merrily on his way. I suppose even if the police decide to take the farang and the kid in for questioning, they won't easily figure out who is telling the truth. He's right about the incident in which I was shaken down by a traffic cop in Bangkok for 2000 baht. I don't know what that is supposed to have to do with proving his point, but so be it. Maybe I'm wrong. He's in Sunee Plaza much more often than I am. Maybe he can tell us all about the last time a farang called the police in response to being criminally victimized by a kid, but ended up being arrested himself because the same kid made a sexual allegation. I'm not in Sunee Plaza as often as he is, so I must have missed the story. He also thinks the kid will be quickly released, return to Sunee Plaza, and if I, or whoever his accuser is, shows up, now there will be a retaliatory physical attack. Again, I'm not in Sunee Plaza as often as he is. Maybe he can tell us about the last time a farang called the police in response to a kid's criminal behavior, returned to Sunee Plaza, and was attacked. I missed that story too. If he truly wants to believe a scenario as absurdly ridiculous as that, and wants to try to convince everybody else that any such thing is likely, let him. Meanwhile, if some ya ba ridden kid tries to burn my vehicle, I'll be calling the police because, after all, I'm "beyond stupid."

JAL Succumbs to Self-Inflicted Wounds By Jonathan Soble, FT.com January 19, 2010 Tokyo, Japan (FT) -- "I'd like to take a pistol and shoot every JAL executive of the last 20 years," says Hideo Fujiwara, an otherwise gently spoken 72-year-old. The former pilot flew for Japan Airlines, which is filing for bankruptcy on Tuesday, for 34 years but will see his monthly pension shrink by 40 per cent to Y140,000 ($1,546) as a result of its bankruptcy. "It's not about the money, it's about dishonest management," he says. "JAL was unprofitable but executives thought nothing of taking Y100m retirement bonuses." JAL's wounds are indeed mostly self-inflicted. Like many Japanese groups it expanded recklessly in the 1980s, buying resorts, golf courses and shopping malls that plunged in value when the country's real estate bubble popped the following decade. Management has often been fractious: one chief executive quit in 2005 after a series of safety lapses damaged the company's once-shining brand; another was forced out in a boardroom rebellion the following year. Yet other elements of JAL's story are familiar to airlines worldwide. A cluster of external shocks over the last decade -- from September 11 to SARS, to soaring fuel prices and the global financial meltdown -- have left it battered. Government handouts are believed to be the only reason it did not fail sooner. "JAL has always had the protection of the state, so it could put off making hard decisions," says Motoshige Itoh, an economics professor at the University of Tokyo. While big US carriers such as United Airlines, US Airways and Delta Airlines went through court-protected restructurings in the first half of the 2000s, it took the financial crisis and recession to finish off JAL. Osuke Itazaki, a veteran airline analyst in Tokyo, says the restructuring plan being imposed on JAL by the Enterprise Turnaround Initiative Corporation, a state-backed corporate rehabilitation fund, should put JAL on a sound financial footing. JAL is to cut 15,700 jobs, or a third of its workforce, sell dozens of non-core businesses and, through bankruptcy court, force its banks to write off much of its Y1,440bn in gross interest-bearing debt. Retirees have already accepted an average 30 per cent reduction in pension payouts, and current workers' benefits will fall by half. "The question," Mr Itazaki says, "is whether things like management culture, strategic direction and quality will improve. Simply fixing JAL's finances won't solve those problems." Either way, the airline is likely to slip below All Nippon Airways in revenue terms in the next several years. The government recently named Kazuo Inamori, the 77-year-old founder of the Kyocera technology group, to oversee the turnaround effort as JAL's next chief executive, replacing Haruka Nishimatsu, a career JAL insider. One of Mr Inamori's first decisions will be whether to retain JAL's partnership with American Airlines and the OneWorld alliance or defect to Delta and its SkyTeam group, both of which are wooing the Japanese carrier. "This is a huge decision that could determine the future of JAL," says one official involved in the restructuring effort. The decision, expected in the next few weeks, will say a lot about the sort of airline JAL managers and the government expect to emerge from bankruptcy. Delta -- whose approach is favoured by the transport ministry and many JAL executives -- already has big hubs in Tokyo and nearby Seoul, unlike the more Atlantic-focused American.

Unfortunately, that's the only part of your body that ever is . . .

Sorry, but that's utter nonsense. How stupid do you think the police are? This kid tried to set fire to a motorcycle. Maybe you think the police are going to play games when it comes to arson, but I don't. If he had done that to me, you can bet your bottom dollar I would have taken it to the police. My friend, if you're going to let some idiotic kid intimidate you when he is the one out there committing crimes, that's your business. I wouldn't think twice about it and yes, I would be right back in Sunee Plaza the next night with no fears or qualms whatsoever. I will agree that it would be better handled Thai-to-Thai, but since it didn't happen that way, you won't find me looking the other way for fear of it backfiring on me. Your assumptions about what I really think are dead wrong.

The following appears in PATTAYA ONE: _____

Since when? "I came for the waters." -Humphrey Bogart, 'Casablanca'

I would like someone to explain, step-by-step and very clearly, how to use CamFrog. I can't figure out how to chat with anyone. Nothing I try works. I can send messages to the main screen, but how do you start a chat with a specific user? "Explain it to me, like I'm a four-year old." -Denzel Washington, 'Philadelphia'

400 baht for an off? 150 baht for the boy's drink, which is usually a soft drink? If that's the case, maybe the bar ought to be renamed "Greedy Bar." Happy Bar used to be one of my favorites. At those prices why go there at all? There are one or two other bars in the vicinity. If this guy is going to charge prices like that, he may very well be pricing himself right out of the market. A drink for the boy, your own drink, and the 150 baht fee to go upstairs and you can already kiss at least 700 baht goodbye before you even think about tipping the boy or having a second drink. Those boys would have to be very, very special to get me to pay him those kinds of prices.

You are probably thinking of the new spa-massage-restaurant that just opened across from Monty's. I haven't been in there yet and the name escapes me, but Duo is still where it always was and is open.