Gaybutton

Must have evidence? In Thailand???? With a farang bar owner accused of selling under-age sex? Maybe he'll somehow get out of it, but I doubt it even if he has the big bucks. There's already been too much publicity. But let's say he can get out of it. He might have a shot at it if they grant him bail. If they don't then even if proven innocent, by the time the case makes it to court he already will have spent a great deal of time in a Thai prison. It usually takes months, often more than a year, before cases here ever see the first light of day in Thai courts. I think the best he can hope for is getting a reduced sentence if he confesses. No matter what, by now I think, without mentioning the name, you already know at which bar the arrest took place. I also think you are probably also well aware that particular bar does employ under-age boys. No matter what the outcome, I don't think I would want to be in his shoes. There's one way to find out if this incident has frightened the bar owners. Within the next several days I'm going to take a look at some of these bars myself and see if there are obviously under-age boys still working. While I would love not to see under-age boys anymore, my guess is that nothing has really changed at all. We'll soon see.

That's exactly the point. I think you and I agree. What are we arguing about? I know the question asked what the age of consent is. Just last year I learned to read.

Details are on the Gay Ting & Tong Board: http://www.gaytingtong.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6480

True. I know only the unreal facts. And believe me, the facts I know are unreal! I think you know as well as anyone that a number of bars in Sunee Plaza have under-age boys. What other facts do you need? If the Frenchman who was arrested after having been the target of these investigations turns out to be not guilty, I'll be happy for him, but still there is no denying about the under-age boys working in the bars. I'll take a witch hunt for the people responsible for it, and burning the witches at the stake would probably be more merciful than what they'll face if and when they're finally caught.

With only 3 or 4 people sitting outside watching the screen and so few farang going to the Day-Night area? I hardly think so.

Click the link to read the PATTAYA MAIL article: http://www.pattayamail.com/current/news.shtml#hd17

Maybe someone who thinks the Red-Shirts get hungry . . .

Good! This is the kind of witch hunt I'm in favor of. My only objection is that they seem to be singling out foreign bar owners. I don't see that as discriminatory. I see that as a step in the right direction. I believe they will go after Thai scofflaw bar owners too. If they can rid Sunee Plaza of the under-age boys, they will also be ridding Sunee Plaza of the plague of pedophiles that come to Thailand and ruin things for everyone else. I think Sunee Plaza has been dying a slow death because of the under-age boys and pedophiles. Many farang are reluctant to even go to Sunee Plaza for fear of being caught up in this, stigmatized, and fear of taking a boy off who claims he is 18 and can even show ID that he is 18, but it turns out he was under-age anyway. I think most farang customers, the ones who have no intention of taking an under-age boy off for sex, are sick and tired of having to play "Guess His Age" instead of being able to rest assured that the boy of interest is at least 18 years old. The bars that do make sure their boys are 18+ and are not drug users suffer too. Less customers come to Sunee Plaza in the first place and the same fears affect them in the "legitimate" bars. I don't see any reason why people have to be afraid to go to Sunee Plaza and I agree that it's high time something substantial is done so that people can have a good time instead of having to wonder who's watching and if he is falling victim to a boy trying to dupe him about his age. Also, I have yet to meet anyone whose idea of a pleasant evening includes being inside a bar when the police stage a raid. I hope that this kind of move will clean out Sunee Plaza. I also hope the move to legalize prostitution succeeds. And I hope this kind of crackdown affects any bar at which under-age boys are employed regardless of the nationality of the owner. But I still don't understand why the FBI is involved. The fact that the FBI, an American police agency, apparently was involved in the investigation and arrest of a French national operating an illegal bar in Thailand is still on my "I Don't Get It" list.

Hedda has always maintained his anonymity and privacy. Unless Hedda chooses to let people know why he has discontinued posting or why, apparently at his own request, the "Hedda's Hopper" forum has been locked, I have a feeling all anybody is going to be able to do is guess.

I'm trying to prevent these posts from misleading people new to Thailand and getting themselves into trouble. Quoting the law is not much help when in reality it just doesn't work that way. Don't forget that Thailand is a guilty unless proven innocent country. Anyone who gets sexually involved with someone under the age of 18 is placing himself at great risk of arrest, prosecution, and prison time, not to mention the huge cost of getting yourself out of trouble if you can get out of it at all. But if you're arrested you can always start quoting the law to the police. I'm sure they'll listen to you . . . all the way downtown. The bottom line is very simple. Forget about the age of consent laws. It's not going to help you one bit if you are caught engaging in sex with someone under 18 years old. The age of consent laws are fine if it happens to be two young people having sex with each other. But does anyone truly think a Thai judge is going to believe that a 50+ year old farang and a 15, 16, or 17 year old boy were having sex without money or prostitution being involved? Good luck with that one. You'll need it. Another little thing . . . the age of consent laws are not the only laws that apply. Many farang, for example, have been charged with taking a minor without the consent of the parents. That's a serious crime in Thailand too and is viewed by the courts much the same as kidnapping. Fortunately, though, in many cases the charges are dropped if you can come to a suitable financial arrangement with the family that they will accept. Let's see, how much was that fully furnished new house, new car, and water buffalo? And don't forget the large flat screen TV. Do what you want folks, but that's quite a set of risks just so that you can have a real nice cum that lasts a few seconds. Take Viagra first. That way, maybe your cum will last a little longer. It will be a very pleasant memory when you start getting those midnight conjugal visits from some big grotesque oaf you don't want one from. You have no problem if the boy is at least 18 years old. If he is younger than 18 you are placing yourself at risk. Go ahead. Have sex with a 15 year old if you want to. Personally, if you really do I think you're nuts. If you're caught, when you have to face the consequences you can't say I didn't do my best to warn you.

I hope you're not trying to convince people that sex with a 15, 16, or 17 year old is perfectly ok. It isn't. On a technical level you may be right, but on a practical level if a farang gets caught involved sexually with a boy of those ages, he's had it. Do you disagree?

You're right. I misread his post.

Yesterday afternoon I tried Camfrog. I wasn't on there more than 5 minutes when a young gentleman, who just happened to be very much my type, chimed in. His English was good and it turned out he is a massage boy at one of the local gay massage places. It also turns out that he lives only a few minutes from my place. I'll be meeting him early this afternoon. Thank you again, guys, for making it clear how to use Camfrog. Anyone else want to ask me why I love living here so much . . . ?

"Only little people pay taxes." - Leona Helmsley I can think of many adjectives to describe GT, but 'little' wouldn't be one of them. Bars that have free munchies, but not the kind I like. Bars with grumpy customers. Bars that let me come in. "I don't want to belong to any club that will accept me as a member." - Groucho Marx

Don't leave us in suspense. What happened when you pointed out that you received only 30 minutes and you're not going to pay for 90 minutes?

The only safe age of consent for a foreigner is if the boy is 18 years old, or older. The tip amount is your personal choice. If the boy stays with you for only one or two hours, which we refer to as "short time," I recommend giving him 1000 baht as a tip. If he stays overnight with you, which we refer to as "long time," then I recommend 1500 baht as a tip. Some may agree with me. Some may argue that my recommendation is not enough or is too much, but the boys will be happy with those amounts.

I also don't understand why the FBI would have been involved. Without some sort of explanation to make sense of it, that's the latest item on my "I Don't Get It" list. Until now I never knew that my tax dollar was working to help arrest citizens of one country committing crimes in another country, neither of which is the USA. Maybe the USA really does want to become the police of the entire world. There must be some reason why the FBI was involved. I would like to know the reason.

Here's a question for you. On Gay Romeo, and several other personals sites, many of the Thai boys use ZA as a part of their user name. "Pattaya-ZA." What does ZA mean? I can't find the answer to that anywhere.

Now you know what to get me for Christmas. Don't worry, I can wait . . .

When it comes to this kind of matter, I'm not the man in the know. I'm the man in the I don't know. What I think is that it will turn out that you're wrong and this guy will spend a lot of years in prison. My reasoning is this wasn't a typical Sunee Plaza raid in which the local constabulary arrests the mama-san and mama is back to work the next night. This involved investigation, the involvement of at least two international police agencies and his embassy. I don't think this is going to be another 'hand over a big chunk of change to the police and see you later.' I think this guy is gone and I don't think he's going to see the light of day again until he's had a lot more birthdays. What I hope is this scares the shit out of the bar owners who hire under-age boys and the buses will soon be crammed with the under-age set heading back to the rice farm for at least two or three years. What do I think the odds are that it really will happen that way? Somewhere between zero and none.

I don't know. Who do you want me to ask? Would you want to trade places with him? Ok, you've convinced me. Now convince the judge.

That's right. We don't. Guilty or not, this is the first time since Boys Studio that I can remember truly serious action taken directly against a bar owner. I think most of us are aware of the problem about under-age bar boys in Sunee Plaza. Maybe this arrest has at least a chance of sending a clear message to the bar owners who continue to employ under-age boys. It's one thing when the bars get closed for a period of time. It's quite another when the owners themselves are criminally charged and can look forward to the Bangkok Hilton. The problems in Sunee Plaza won't go away until the bars stop hiring under-age boys and it ought to be perfectly obvious by now that the bar owners aren't going to stop voluntarily. If you truly believe that the age of consent should be an age less than 18, then I suggest trying to do something to try getting the powers-that-be to change the current statutes. Until then it looks like bar owners may finally have to face the real possibility of serious consequences for their actions. Personally, in this day and age I don't see any reason why the age of consent shouldn't be 16 or 17 years old, but since the age is 18, hiring boys younger than that creates a lot of problems for everyone. At the moment, Thailand is seriously considering legalizing prostitution. I think that is a step in the right direction. If this kind of crackdown can serve to start eliminating the under-age problem, then the reputation as a haven for pedophiles that stigmatizes all of us may start going away too.

The following appears in THE NATION: _____ French Man Arrested for Allegedly Offering Underage Sex Service in Pattaya Pattaya, Chon Buri - Police Wednesday arrested a French man for allegedly providing boys under 18 for sex services. Jean Eric Lopez, 47, was arrested inside Soi Sunee Plaza in Bang Lamung district. Police were alerted by officials from the Federal Bureau of Investigation to arrest Lopez. The FBI officials informed the Thai police that Lopez had been allegedly offering underage sex services to foreigners at his bar. __________ And this, from the PATTAYA DAILY NEWS: _____ French Paedophile Arrested In Pattaya Selling Child Sex A combined force from Thailand's Department of Special Investigation (DSI) and local police in this coastal province late Tuesday night arrested a French businessman who runs many entertainment venues in the seaside resort of Pattaya on charge of sexually abusing child and providing child sex for his customers. Chon-Buri, the 25th of January 2010 [TNA]: French national Jean Eric Lopez, 47, was arrested after the DSI’s Bureau of Foreign Affairs and Transnational Crime was informed by representatives of the US Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) in Thailand and French national police based at the French Embassy in Thailand that Mr Lopez used to run entertainment venues which offered boy sex trade for hire and the accused himself had sexually abused children. According to the investigation, the DSI officials found that Mr Lopez is a shareholder in several entertainment venues for homosexuals in Pattaya, which provide children aged between 12 and 20 year-old to the customers. The Pattaya Court issued an arrest warrant of Mr Lopez on Tuesday and he was arrested hours later. The DSI operation officials also impounded a number of gay sex CDs and condoms. The French national has been charged with taking indecent liberties with children aged under 18-years-old despite having the child’s consent. The accused denied the charges and was later taken to Pattaya for further questioning. (TNA)

Mad Jack: "You tell no one!" Horton: "I swear before God." Mad Jack: "I said noooo one!" - Ray Walston and Tom Ligon, 'Paint Your Wagon'

Those are choices you're making. I hope you never have to pay the price for your security choices. As far as it being rude to be seen placing your valuables into your safe, what's the rude part? Rude that the boy might think you don't trust him? You can avoid that 'rudeness' by placing your valuables in your safe before you even go out. When you do go out, carry only what you anticipate needing to have with you. If I am planning to bring a boy back, before I ever go out I place the amount I intend to tip him where he won't see it, but will prevent me from having him see where I keep my wallet. My valuables are hidden away before I go out. I do that even if I'm not anticipating bringing someone back with me. You never know . . . I like surprises. The boy never sees my valuables and never sees my wallet. If he wants to search while I'm in the shower, fine with me. I can shower for an hour if I want to. He'll still be trying to figure out where I hid my stuff. If he looks hard enough, the only thing he might find is the money for the tip I planned to give him anyway. You know how I prevent a boy from stealing my mobile phone while I'm in the shower? I take it into the bathroom with me. I do that even when I'm home alone. 9 times out of 10, if I'm going to receive a phone call, it's going to be while I'm in the shower. Also, if I have a fall and hurt myself, the phone is right there to call for help. If you're afraid the mobile phone will get soaked, plan ahead. Before you go out, stash a plastic bag in the bathroom and put the phone in it while you're in there. Now your phone won't get wet. Personally, I'd much rather have a boy think I'm rude than think I'm stupid.