Gaybutton

That's excellent advice. 3 guesses whether I'm going to follow it. 3 more guesses what happens next time you post a personal attack, even when it's directed toward paranoid ol' me. Captain Queeg: "Ahh, but the strawberries. That's... that's where I had them. They laughed at me and made jokes . . ." - Humphrey Bogart, 'The Caine Mutiny'

Maybe that's exactly what he meant to say . . .

That's very easy to say when you're not the one. I'm the one. You folks can post until you're blue in the fingers, but again I am the only one associated with the operation of this board who resides permanently in Thailand. I would appreciate it if my wishes were respected. If you really want to name names without proper substantiation, how about doing so on other boards, where the owners and moderators don't seem to mind. My analogy is that, as far as I know, only one farang has ever been arrested as a result of taking an under-age boy off from a bar. Obviously the odds of being arrested are quite remote, despite the law. But the fact remains that somebody was indeed arrested. I see this issue as the same thing. You could most likely write all the posts you want and name all the names you want and the odds are that nothing will ever happen. Those odds aren't good enough for me. If you were in my place I don't think they would be good enough for you either. The fact is that Thailand has some oddball libel laws and if this board permits those laws to be violated and either the police or named individuals want to make an issue of it, then somebody is going to get sued and somebody may be arrested. Since I'm the one who lives here, that somebody could very easily be me. No thank you very much. Folks, if you are going to ask me to take the slightest risk just because you want to name names, then you're barking up the wrong tree. Whether you like me or hate me, I don't think very many people would dispute the fact that I put in a hell of a lot of time and effort on this board. I think I'm entitled to do that without people insisting that I take legal risks along with everything else. If it's so important to anyone to name names, then how about opening your own board and you can be the one taking the risks. Now let's see if anyone actually does it or if it's simply easier to criticize me while letting me take the risks while you're out there taking none . . .

Most of the time they don't. Once the media reports the name, now it's fair game. But until then forget it.

If you want to see what I mean about the media declining to mention specific names of venues, this story just came out moments ago on the PATTAYA DAILY NEWS: Photos: http://www.pattayadailynews.com/en/2010/02/13/popular-a-go-go-bar-rai _____ Popular “A Go Go” Bar Raided by Pattaya Police A Human Trafficking Division police taskforce raided an “A Go Go” Bar in South Pattaya on Friday. The raid was enacted over reports of lewd and indecent acts occurring at the establishment. Pattaya 13th January 2010 [PDN]: At approximately 00.10 am Police Colonel Woraphong Thorngphaiboon (Human Trafficking Division Superintendent) and Lieutenant Colonel Shusak Kethong (Human Trafficking Division Deputy Superintendent) along with a team of officers, raided the “A Go Go” bar to find 5 semi naked women dancing indecently in front of foreign customers. The venue was a popular establishment in South Pattaya. The Officers ordered the music to be turn off and the lights to be switched on, before they arrest the women, taking them to the Pattaya Police station. The dancers were charged with public indecency and fined 1,000 baht each before being released. ____________________ Nowhere in the story is the name of the bar mentioned, only its approximate location. That is typical of the way these kinds of news stories are written. Again, if the media won't mention the name of the venue, then there must be a reason. Whether that reason makes any sense to us is irrelevant. For me, the logical conclusion I draw is they don't name the venue because legally they cannot. So, that's the way I handle it here and I'm not about to let anyone put me at risk just so a venue can be named. In the case of the news reports, they have plenty of witnesses and plenty of photos to back up what they say. I have yet to ever see a post on one of these boards that can say the same. Even with that backup the media doesn't name the bars. Someone posting here won't have any backup at all except for hearsay and personal opinion. Very sorry, but that's not enough for me to allow others to put me in jeopardy.

Then we're agreed . . . I think. They can say whatever they want about their experiences. This happened or that happened. But they're going to have to do it without naming the venue if they are going to accuse the venue of criminal behavior without substantiation. I don't have any objection if they want to post that they were short-changed at a specific bar or this boy or that boy wouldn't do what he promised. Those are experiences that can occur at any bar. But when they start naming a bar and saying the owner offered them a 14 year old kid or something similar, that's where I draw the line. Did you notice that the news articles always mention what part of town the bar was in, but they don't mention the specific name of the bar. I have to ask myself why even the Thai media refrains from doing that. So, I'd rather err by overreacting than under-reacting. And, as I said, this changes nothing about how I have always moderated this board. Do you see what we're actually discussing? Here's the headline: "Announcement: GB changes nothing about his moderating policies."

You're right. I don't believe it. Meanwhile, I'm the one living here and I'm the one who would have to face the consequences if it turns out that you're wrong. I don't want to have to find out the hard way. You're not suggesting we start violating Thai law, are you? If indeed you are wrong, what am I supposed to say to the judge? Me: "Well, Your Honor, I believed nothing would happen to me. So did the board owner. After all, I consider this board my baby." Judge: "Your baby? Congratulations, GB. You just gave birth to deportation, a heavy fine, and an all expenses paid holiday at the Bangkok Hilton, meals included." Besides, since when do you want personal attacks, gossip, innuendo, and unsubstantiated rumors posted here? I thought that's what we're supposed to be against. I don't see how any of what I posted would change anything about the way we have always done things on this board in the first place. Ok, if you insist . . .

From what I understand, other boards are saying they will not permit posts that are unsubstantiated harmful gossip. That has been pretty much our policy on this board anyway. We don't want personal attacks on this board. We don't want businesses named and attacked without substantiation. We don't permit businesses, including bars, to be named and attacked because of the possibility of personal vendetta and the fact that Thai law would be violated. I live here. There's no way I'm ever going to permit posts that can place me in legal jeopardy. In other words, the policy of this board already handles the problems brought up on other boards and always has.

Aha! Until now I never knew you were Swiss . . .

No, you will not need to keep it. They have all of that on their computers. I know that for a fact. A couple years ago I managed to lose my passport. When I received the new one I went to Immigration with it. There was no problem. They replaced the stamps and even were able to issue a duplicate of my arrival-departure card and staple it into my passport. Actually, you probably won't be able to keep your old passport whether you want to or not. I don't know how it works elsewhere, but at the USA Embassy they require you to turn in your old passport when they are ready to issue you a new one. If your old one was lost or stolen, you are required to submit a police report.

What's to infer? You would have to be blind and dead for several days not to see that this guy, a newbie on this board, is using the boards for very obvious purposes. Nice try.

น่าจะได้ จะรู้

I don't mind a little false happiness once in a while. Your Christmas analogy works fine if you've got it to give in the first place. I'm perfectly willing to see if you're right. I'm very unhappy. Anyone out there want to try buying off my unhappiness?

"That's... not buying happiness. That's just... buying off unhappiness. " - Frank Albertson, 'Psycho'

I agree.

I agree that there have been times when innocent people suffered because of the media, but on the other hand I think that allowing these kinds of gag orders to restrict the press is too great a price to pay. Had that been the norm, Woodward and Bernstein might very well have been prevented from reporting on their investigations and Watergate might never had come to light. I don't think judges should have the option of overriding the Constitution. The Constitution provides the basis for the courts to issue rulings in the first place. I think the press should police itself into responsible reporting, but I don't have any idea how that can be accomplished. However it can be done, if it can be done at all, I would not want to see it done through gag orders. That would, as I said, override the Constitution, set a precedent for the courts to be able to override other areas of the Constitution, and would give carte blanche for judges to rule subjectively without any standard criteria they would have to follow for gag orders to be issued.

Former Congressman Charlie Wilson Dead at 76 (CNN) -- Former congressman Charlie Wilson of Texas died Wednesday at age 76, a Texas hospital said. The 12-term Democratic representative, who served Texas' 2nd Congressional District and inspired the book and movie "Charlie Wilson's War," had been in a meeting with a friend Wednesday morning when he complained of difficulty breathing, said Yana Ogletree, a spokeswoman for Memorial Medical Center in Lufkin, Texas. The two men were heading to the hospital when they passed an emergency medical services vehicle on the side of the road and stopped for help, she said. Paramedics took Wilson to the hospital emergency room, where he was pronounced dead, she said. Wilson, who had undergone a heart transplant at Methodist Hospital in Houston in September 2007, moved back to Lufkin when he retired from Congress in 1997 after having served since 1973, she said. "Charlie was a man of courage and conviction who worked hard, loved his country, and lived life to the fullest," said House Appropriations Committee Chairman David R. Obey, D-Wisconsin. "We will miss him." Tom Hanks portrayed the flamboyant congressman in the 2007 movie "Charlie Wilson's War," based on the book by George Crile. The book and the film told the story of Wilson's efforts to get weapons to mujahedeen fighters after Soviets invaded Afghanistan. "Hanks did a great job," Wilson said in 2008. Wilson also praised the other actors. "They were too close to the truth," he said. The U.S. Naval Academy grad and Navy veteran was elected to Congress in 1972 -- a Democrat bucking the national Nixon landslide -- and quickly became known for his high-living escapades, which earned him the nickname "Good Time Charlie," and shrewd accumulation of political chits. His savvy came in handy in the early 1980s, when Wilson, a staunch anti-Communist, decided to help Afghan rebels in their war against the invading Soviet Union. Over several years, working behind the scenes, his efforts to raise funds through his defense subcommittee, to establish a bond with a CIA agent named Gust Avrakotos (played by Philip Seymour Hoffman in the film) and to negotiate support from Middle Eastern countries helped the Afghans take the upper hand and eventually forced the Soviets out of the country. Asked what led to the Soviet departure, Pakistani leader Gen. Muhammad Zia ul-Haq was blunt: "Charlie did it," he told CBS News' "60 Minutes." Some people criticized the film because it didn't do much to highlight what happened in Afghanistan after the Soviets left: the Taliban's takeover of the country and al Qaeda's use of the nation as a base. Wilson was asked in 2008 about the consequences of helping the mujahedeen fighters. "I don't think there was a serious blowback," Wilson said. "I think there was the point that [author] George Crile made in the [book's] epilogue, that the Muslims saw that they took down one superpower and then the radical ones thought they could take down another one. But they're wrong." Wilson is survived by his wife, Barbara Alberstadt Wilson, a sister, a niece and a nephew. Funeral arrangements are pending.

I think we can dispense with the smoking issue. I can't imagine what someone could post about it that hasn't already been said and isn't already common knowledge. I think smokers have all figured out that non-smokers don't want any part of their smoke and that they think a smoker's clothing stinks.

Don't make the mistake of assuming my post was necessarily in your behalf. It was addressed to anyone who intends to start up the personal attacks. Just one question: If somebody wins, does he have to eat with you?

Gentlemen, I would be most grateful if we keep the posts from getting personal, and it looks like this thread is going to head that direction if I don't say anything. I'm sure that GT will agree with me that a little nudging is ok, but out-and-out personal attacks are going to result in deleted posts and users placed on the moderated mode. I don't think any of us want that, so please keep it in check. Nobody is saying anything that hasn't already been said a trillion times on the various boards, so I don't see much point in rehashing it here. Personally, how someone behaves on other boards is not my concern and I really don't care. The moderators of the other boards have their own rules and their own methods of dealing with problems. My concern is this board, and as long as nobody is violating any rules here there isn't a problem. So please, let's not needlessly create any.

Of course not. I don't have a work permit . . .

I'm even more surprised. You have no way to know what I'm thinking unless I tell you. I haven't told you. If you want to know what I'm thinking, ask me. I don't have any suicide patients. I'm not a doctor and I didn't know there is a treatment for suicide. Not only do I not have any patients, I don't even have any patience.

The same way so many other threads end up being hijacked. You're right. Let's get back to the subject of Jomtien Complex.

Where are you coming up with this nonsense from? That is simply not true. Neither is what you say about the streets not being well lit at night. The restaurants here get just as crowded as anywhere else in Pattaya. Sometimes you can't get a table. And all these road deaths? I suppose next you will tell us all about hordes of people filling hospital emergency rooms due to injuries suffered from tripping over all the dead bodies. Come over here some time and go around to these places with me. Then we'll see who's right.

I did say that I stand to one side, didn't I? Now, being a person who can't anticipate every possible reason people still physically push others on escalators, somehow I have a feeling that not everyone who pushes me is suffering from incontinence.