Gaybutton

Well, I have a question for you - the same question lvdkeyes asked, but you didn't answer. What country do you come from? Whether we terrible Americans live in Thailand or anywhere else, you've decided that should mean you get to stereotype all Americans and that should also mean we forfeit the right to discuss issues and seek changes we see as improvements. In case you haven't noticed, we Americans disagree with each other on these issues all the time. That negates your ideas about stereotypes. I'm sure we're all very sorry that we weren't raised according to your standards. Your idea of disrespect differs from mine, that's for sure. I find nothing disrespectful about criticizing people in power when we disagree with them. Apparently your idea is that just because someone holds governmental power, that means we are disrespectful unless we either agree or keep our mouths shut. If that is your belief system, I'm glad I don't have the same belief system. People don't get to take away my right to think for myself and express my opinions just because they are in office. My respect has to be earned. I don't just automatically bestow respect upon others simply because they are judges or politicians. If I have a "fat wallet" I'll have you know I worked for it. I worked for what I have and worked damned hard. Nobody gave it to me. I get annoyed with people who resent me because I have more money than they do. What do you expect us "fat wallet" Americans to do, give it away? Give it to you? Are we supposed to feel guilty because we succeeded in life and can afford to live the lifestyle that others wish they could also live? You may find this disgusting, but you know what I'm going to do with what I have? I'm keeping it. I'm going to live on it, enjoy my life with it, make myself comfortable with it, and I'm not going to give it away to anybody, with the possible exception of IRS. When I die, if I could take it with me, that's exactly what I would do. How terrible of me. Now that I think about it, even if you really could take it with you, I'd bet IRS would still manage to get a share of it . . .

I agree with what you have been saying, but the police are holding bars responsible for what their employees do when they're not working. Remember that they are penalizing bars and bar owners if any of their employees test positive for drugs. I don't know if it's legal in Thailand for the police to do that or if it would stand up in Thai courts, but there it is.

Malawi Launches Operation Against High-Profile Gay and Llesbian People Fears of backlash across Africa as US evangelists accused of spreading religious zeal behind homophobic campaigns David Smith and agencies guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 16 February 2010 Police in Malawi have launched an operation to hunt down and arrest high-profile gays and lesbians in the southern African state. Fears of an anti-gay backlash across Africa are intensifying after the prosecution of the first gay couple to seek marriage in Malawi, and thousands of Ugandans demonstrated this week in support of a bill proposing the death penalty for some offences involving homosexual acts. Last week five men were arrested at an alleged gay wedding in Kenya. Dave Chingwalu, a spokesman for police in Malawi, said a 60-year-old man was arrested yesterday and charged with sodomy. Chingwalu said he received a complaint from a young man that he had been asked to undress by the older man and was then sodomised. Police investigations had uncovered a network of high-profile people involved homosexual acts, investigations were under way "and we will arrest them all", Chingwalu said. Malawi has been criticised by international groups for the prosecution of Steven Monjeza, 26, and 20-year-old Tiwonge Chimbalanga, jailed in December for holding a wedding ceremony. The men were charged with unnatural acts and gross indecency and could be imprisoned for up to 14 years if found guilty. A 21-year-old man was recently sentenced to two months' community service for putting up pro-gay rights posters, and a senior minister expelled a woman from her town even after a court acquitted her on charges of having sex with two girls. Campaigners in Malawi say homophobic legislation is driving gays and lesbians underground, making them hard to reach with information that could protect them from Aids."In Malawi it's a complete witch-hunt that denies the people the right to self-determination," said Phumi Mtetwa, executive director of the Lesbian and Gay Equality Project, based in South Africa. "We are deeply concerned about this spate of homophobia across the continent." Mtetwa said the recent series of incidents was no accident but rather the work of US evangelical Christian groups. "It's very well calculated. It's exploding at the moment but it's been happening for a year and a half. We have proof of American evangelical churches driving the religious fundamentalism in Uganda." The Ugandan parliament is considering a bill that would impose life imprisonment as the minimum punishment for anyone convicted of having gay sex. If the accused person is HIV positive or a serial offender, or a "person of authority" over the other partner, or if the "victim" is under 18, a conviction will result in the death penalty. Members of the public are obliged to report any homosexual activity to police within 24 hours or risk up to three years in jail. The legislation has earned international condemnation - Barack Obama described it as "odious" - but has received vocal backing within Uganda. Thousands of protesters took to the streets in Jinja, about 40 miles east of the capital, Kampala, in the biggest demonstration against homosexuals since the bill was introduced. Okware Romano, a protester, said: "I have a verse in the bible in Leviticus 20 verse 13. It says that homosexuals should be put to death ... yes." Last week police in Kenya said they had arrested five men whom they believed were homosexual in Kikambala beach resort near Mombasa. District officer George Matandura said two of the men had been found with wedding rings, attempting to get married. "It is an offence, an unnatural offence, and also their behaviour is repugnant to the morality of the people," Matandura said. The other three men were turned in to the police by members of the public. Two of them had reportedly been beaten. Gay sex is illegal in 36 countries in Africa. Only South Africa has legalised same sex marriage, and even there campaigners say the fight against bigotry is far from over.

I don't think Ganymede had anything sinister in mind and I have no objection to what he wrote or the way he wrote it. Actually, I think it was a clever way for him to do it. I also think the omission of the off fee was simply an oversight on his part. The night I spoke with him I wasn't standing there taking notes. It was just conversation and I wrote my post to the best of my recollection. I don't see anything wrong with him correcting any errors I made. I regret that I made any errors at all and I'm glad he corrected them. Also, I did not let on who I am until we were near the end of our conversation. Throughout most of our discussion he had no idea that I had anything to do with the message boards and once I told him who I am, I got the impression that he wasn't a board follower in the first place. I have neither objection nor criticism about his revision of my post. I meant what I said in my post. I think Ganymede has an excellent chance of success and I sincerely hope the bar does succeed. I will certainly be going back there again - often.

If what you say is correct, then all that tactic seems to have actually accomplished was to get everybody talking about Sunee Plaza,much more than usual. It just seems to me that a mountain is being made out of a molehill. If I understand correctly, you are saying that this whole brouhaha came about because of business competition? I wish whatever needs to be settled would get settled already and let life and speculation get back to normal, if ever it was 'normal' to begin with.

You'll have to ask them that question. The law you quote specifies a prostitution establishment. While many think that's just what these bars are, so far that is based on personal opinion and until the powers-that-be in Thailand take the same view legally, then personal opinions are irrelevant. Once again, a law is not a law unless it is enforced. "John Marshall has made his decision. Now let him enforce it." - Andrew Jackson, President of the United States (John Marshall - Chief Justice of the Supreme Court) - 1832

Bingo! Nothing has visibly changed at all. This whole thing ought to go down in history as one of the most bizarre occurrences ever experienced around here.

The Pattaya Passion web site and Board ( http://pattayapassion.com ) no longer exists and the domain is up for sale. I have no clue as to why or what's going on with that all of a sudden, on top of everything else going on lately. I don't know whether it's temporary or permanent. I have no other information. If someone who represents that board wishes to explain, feel free to do so.

Maybe, but that is only speculation. It is my understanding that their going offline has more to do with a change in format, although I admit it does seem coincidental that they would pick now to go offline without any kind of prior announcement. According to Thai law, all farang must have his passport on his person at all times. The police know that few people carry their actual passport. A copy is almost always acceptable and there is no reason to think it is any different now. If you prefer not to go to Sunee Plaza, then don't go, but I see no reason to try to convince people to avoid Sunee Plaza. Again, this whole thing has been blown so far out of proportion that the word 'ridiculous' isn't even an adequate description.

February 16~28 Gourmet Set Menu House Champagne *** Amuse Bouche *** White Wine Cackle Berry Chardonnay, Australia 2007 Gourmand Terrine of Goose Liver, smoked Ox Tongue and Capsicum served with green Beans Salad *** Light Madras Curry flavored Cream Soup with Mango & Shrimps *** Camembert Risotto with red Wine marinated Grapes *** Lemon Sherbet *** Red Wine Cackle Berry, Shiraz, Australia, 2006 Pan

So do I. It would be very difficult to convince me that one message posted on one board by one person was the catalyst solely responsible for instigating the stupidity presently occurring. But whatever nonsense is going on, it has no effect on customers patronizing Sunee Plaza. I don't go to the bars very often, but I have plenty of friends who are in the bars every day. Believe me, if there was any reason to avoid Sunee Plaza I would know about it and I would be the first one to post about it. Sunee Plaza is just fine. There is no bar at which a customer needs to have any fears at all. Even if you find yourself in a bar at which the boys are under-age, that's not your problem unless you take an under-age boy off for sex. There are no laws or regulations that prohibit customers from being in a bar and watching the dancers. You have no involvement of any kind simply by being there. That's a problem between the bar owners and the police. It's their problem, not yours. It's never been the customers' problem and it still isn't. You can safely go to any bar you want. Again, the only issue that concerns customers is making sure that a boy you intend to take off is at least 18 years old. I'm also a little annoyed that everyone is forming opinions and posting except any of the bar owners. I know damned well that several bar owners follow these boards. Quite frankly I'm growing tired of ending up placed in a position in which the boards somehow become responsible for dealing with the problems, intrigues, and concerns of bar owners. You want our business? Good. This board and I personally have always been happy to promote your business in any appropriate way we can, free of charge. How about some of the bar owners doing something to attract our business, such as offering your customers incentives to come to your bar? Try happy hour prices, contests or raffles for a free off, coming up with a bar show that isn't the same damned thing done by every other bar, giving us a reasonable music volume level, comfortable furniture, spotlessly clean restrooms, and I think most important, get your dancers to actually be entertaining instead of just standing there like zombies staring at themselves in the mirrors, paying little or no attention to the customers, and doing nothing but the "one-knee shuffle." And while we're at it, get rid of those damned pushy mama-sans and overly aggressive street touts. You want to know why you never see me in your bar? That's why. I'm not about to patronize a bar at which your street touts block my path or physically grab me and try to get me to go into your bar. I'm also not about to patronize a bar at which your pushy mama-sans sit next to me uninvited and start trying to get me to select a boy to sit with me, buy him drinks, buy drinks for the mama-san, and then start trying to get me to give the mama-san a tip. I'll choose a boy myself, thank you very much, and I'll tip your mama-san if and when I think it's appropriate. These same complaints have been posted on the boards for years. Well, how about finally doing something about them and start listening to your customers, giving them what they want? Then you'll have all the business you can handle.

And all this time I thought it was already so . . . "Can you imagine that? Are people really this fuckin' stupid? They've got this whole country celebrating the 50th anniversary of an imaginary rodent." - George Carlin

I don't think you have to worry about police raids, especially if you are sticking to the beer bars. Even when the police do raid, they don't seem to hassle the customers. They simply ask the customers to leave. That's not the issue. Whatever the problem is, the police are not bothering the customers. Nothing I've heard indicates any danger to customers. The only thing the customers have to worry about is remembering to make sure any boy they take off is at least 18 years old. Your post is exactly what I was afraid of, that this nonsense would needlessly start scaring people away from Sunee Plaza. While I understand Oogleman's position, I think it was a mistake to write posts saying this or that is now verboten. In hindsight, I think it would have been better to simply contact board owners and moderators, explain the situation, and ask for cooperation. Very few of the kinds of posts he is talking about ever appear in the first place and boards such as this one don't allow them anyway. I had a feeling this would all end up getting blown way out of proportion, and that's what I see starting to happen. I have heard no reports of anything being out of the ordinary for customers. If there was any reason for customers to avoid Sunee Plaza I would have heard by now and believe me I would have made it known on this board. There is no reason for customers to fear and no reason to avoid Sunee Plaza.

I've never heard of that, but if you feel uncomfortable about posting a link to the article, you can copy and paste the article here but you must make sure to attribute the article to its source.

I kind of fault my own mother for disliking mustaches as much as I do. She would always say, "I never liked mustaches. I hate the idea of kissing a man and getting my teeth brushed at the same time." Well, I never liked them either (on Thai boys), and especially on women . . . ! On farang, the mustaches and beards work fine for me, as long as the farang are past a certain age. Many of my friends who sport them just wouldn't look right without them. It works for on Chinese "Fu Manchu" types as well. But on the Thai boys . . . no way!

It's taken me all this time, but I have finally reached a point at which I can handle the tattoos. Now it's facial hair. I notice more and more of the Thai boys are sporting small, scraggly, almost peachfuzz type beards (when they can grow them) and mustaches. For me, it's very unattractive. I'm ready for people to be handing out razors and shaving foam along with the condom handouts. I'm wondering how the rest of you feel about those mustaches and beards.

Aren't you going to tell us the name and location of this tailor? Probably in Hong Kong . . .

The following appears in THE NATION: _____ AHEAD OF RULING ON THAKSIN'S ASSETS CASE House dissolution, civil war, coup most feared February 15, 2010 But Businessmen, Expatriates Keep Fingers Crossed, Hoping Peace will Prevail A House dissolution, civil war and a coup top the list of investment risks facing businesses ahead of the February 26 landmark verdict on the Bt76-billion assets foreclosure trial. Former premier Thaksin Shinawatra may be guilty or not. His family's enormous fortune may be forfeited entirely or partially or the whole amount returned. All these are among the possible scenarios that are prompting virtually all businessmen in this country - Thais or expatriates - to keep their finger crossed. Many wish the political situation before and after February 26 will not be as bad as the brief street riots last April or the November 2008 airport closures. Most importantly, they hope there will be neither a civil war among those with divergent political ideologies nor a coup that suspends the country's democratic governance system once again. These perspectives were shared during last Thursday's roundtable discussion on Thailand's economic recovery versus its political crisis with a focus on the February 26 court verdict - jointly organised by The Nation and Krungthep Turakij. When the yellow-shirted protesters shut down Bangkok's Suvarnabhumi Airport and Don Muang Airport back in late November 2008 to pressure then prime minister Somchai Wongsawat into tendering his resignation, visitor arrivals plunged 23 per cent the following month, just when the tourism industry was entering its high season. Then came April 2009 when the red-shirted protesters went on a rampage on Bangkok's streets in a bid to oust Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva. The tourism industry took another major hit, marked by a 22-per-cent fall in visitor arrivals. Many businessmen now like to joke that Thai politics has become so "colourful" over the past several years, just like the colour-coded teams on the traditional college Sports Day. In the end, they hope the players, red- or yellow-shirted, will respect the judges' verdict so that the country may return to normalcy. Given the protracted political rifts, Thailand has missed chances to focus on the longer-term strategy of national development, especially with the enforcement of the crucial Asean Economic Community coming up in 2015. One roundtable panelist said he's really sorry for the sad state of political affairs here, suggesting that more and more businessmen and investors are losing patience and growing increasingly hopeless. Another participant warned that the possible bankruptcy of several European governments, which are now sinking under huge fiscal deficits, might stall the global economic recovery, which is still fragile. The US economic recovery is still not creating jobs, while Japan remains mired in deflation after two decades of low growth. And China's economic bubbles are increasingly worrisome. All these factors could trip up Thailand's exports and GDP growth this year. If the domestic political situation is not stabilised anytime soon, Thailand could be heading for another round of economic troubles. To protect against uncertain times, a panelist suggested holding onto cash and bullion while selling off stocks and bonds. Such pessimism also prevails because Thailand is passing through a significant political transition but lacks an effective mechanism to resolve conflicts. A society cannot solve its problems with street politics. Yet, the parliamentary system also appears to be losing its effectiveness as far as elections are concerned. One panelist said the flow of funds behind street politics should be cut off by authorities so that we could expect to see an end to the current protests. An army without logistics and funding will quickly become feeble. For many optimists, the darkest hour may come on February 26 when the Supreme Court hands down its historic verdict on the assets seizure case. After that, Thailand should be able to come to terms with any of the outcomes. Political stability should gradually return. Or is that just wishful thinking?

"Only little people pay taxes." - Leona Helmsley

I hope so because I still don't know just what the hell is going on. Why is the Sunee Plaza web site offline? Why was the street party for Sunee Plaza canceled? The Krazy Dragon web site tells us that the go-go boy, Mon, who worked there is dead. Nothing is stated about what happened to him. Is his death connected to this intrigue? If foul play was involved, why is there nothing about it in the media? There has to be more to what's going on than even I have been told, personally, by PM, and by Email. So far I've heard three totally different versions of the "real" story, which means I don't know what the real story actually is. It also means that I'm either being subjected to the rumor mill by people who in reality are just as clueless about all this as I am or it means that I'm being deliberately lied to. I don't see what other possibilities there could be. As Oogleman says, there is no gag order, at least not on this web site. Nothing has changed about what constitutes acceptable posts here, but everyone, including me, feels that we're being kept in the dark about something. I don't necessarily feel that we all have to be told what just now, but I'd like to know why. If someone's life is in danger, I can understand, but if not, then why all this mystery? I've seen plenty of bizarre goings on in Pattaya over the years, but this one takes the cake. Once this whole thing is finally revealed, it better be good. "You've been trying real hard not to tell me something, Billy. What is it?" - John Wayne, 'The Sons of Katie Elder'

Believe me, that wish came true. Thank you Camfrog!!!!

And to think I was only trying to cut to the slow . . .

There's gonna be a eulogy?!?!? With my luck, Jomtien will be the speaker . . .

I can't begin to imagine why. Although, sometimes when I talk to myself I get angry over what I say. Only a few days ago I slapped myself in the face. Oh well, nothing's changed. I think I've mentioned before that when I was a kid I had an imaginary friend. I had to. Nobody else liked me. But he also didn't like me. At least he was gay. He was my first experience . . . "As an actor, no one could touch him. As a human being, no one wanted to touch him." - Walter Matthau, 'The Sunshine Boys' Whew! For a while there I was worried . . . Geezer? You also could visit me at the Bangkok Hilton. We could share some rotten rice along with a little cockroach fazoo. They're all out of wine, but perhaps they could spare a couple cups of some nice contaminated water. Come to think of it, that's what I'm having tonight. Valentine's Day, you know . . .

Very good question. I don't know. I am guessing it would show up on their computers. Also, since people are saying you get your old passport back, but invalidated, your reentry permit will still be stamped inside. I think the best thing for you to do is go to Immigration and ask.