paborn

As I said in a previous thread: I know you know that I have never been in Moonlight - other than when it was Jupiter. Continuing on the rest of your remark has nothing to do with my discussion of the marketing of the niche market at those bars. My entire thesis is that there are loads of different types, desires, and fantasies that can be fulfilled. Yes, you're making my point. The bars like Moonlight have focused on one niche and have superbly marketed it to raise the market price of their product and promote their business. Kudos to them. However, that does not mean there is a "real" value to them only a perceived one held by the admirers of that type.

Now, Vinapu you know, I know you know, that is not an answer to the question I asked. Still, you're welcome to the chair I'll be at Toy Boys anyway.

Vinapu, in your own quiet way you're one of the funniest guys here.

A few days ago you commented about how poor you are. I see it does not extend to business class airfares.

Must have been a long time ago, the purchase algorithms are very good today.

So BBB will close each night at midnight and then the other one opens? I'm not seeing the attraction or the point if it's the same boys, management, etc.

Bangkok Found is wonderful. scholarly without one noticing it just a superb read.

If the muscle boys in certain bars push for higher tips AND the customers are prepared to pay those tips, you have higher tips. If the boys in a certain bar push for too much, the customers may choose to go to another bar. If there is a better choice of twinks in bars where they have more modest tips, tips are lower. I think you have both misread my statement. I was talking about supply and demand. When I said that, " what they think is not a factor" I was referring to a type that I would not take free. I know some of the muscle lovers here find that hard to believe so let me repeat. I do not want, like, desire, find hot, sexy, sensual, etc. the guys at Tawan and the Models at Moonlight. What they think is not important - the customer must agree or he is not getting it no matter what his thought process. Merchandise can be priced out of a market. Vinapu, your remarks above are correct but, actually, have nothing to do with what I was talking about. The people who run Jupiter and Moonlight have done brilliant marketing and have raised the market worth of their offerings. I think that is obvious. On the other hand, a Mr. Tam can value himself all he wants you have to be willing to pay it and a niche group is - the vast majority has shown in the polls are not.

Vinapu, you are very lucky to meet such kind strangers. But, if you properly notify your banks that you are traveling they will not be blocked. An American Express card can be replaced very quickly in most countries at corresponding banks such as Bangkok Bank. Cash can be stolen and it is truly gone. Thus, while more places in Asia take visa/ MasterCard, AMEX is my reserve foolproof security.

a447a - Interesting thoughts but here're mine: I'm retired and live on income from investments and want the max amount earning for me at all times. I started with a travel fund that I keep in an interest-bearing account. I add to that from my monthly budget in a regular withdrawal amount as I take the same sum monthly to meet my expenses. This way I'm earning all the time and one can also avoid interest by simply paying the bill when presented. I don't carry my passport and only one credit card at a time. I use a small, front pocket, travel wallet. It is so easy to report a stolen card today that I don't worry. I worry more that I lose an ATM card and can't access cash - that ATM card accesses my travel fund account.

After a lifetime of consulting, I still believe cash is bad. Don't run up debt, pay the damn bill when it comes, don't spend more than you can - just treat the card as a payment vehicle. Hell, I get points for it. I even pay my taxes by card - I have the money and will pay the bill but I get points. Travel points, points I spend onAmazon. Proper sensible, fiscally responsible management of credit it a fantastic plus. I'm delighted to find they are accepting cards. I wouldn't buy a porch chop without my card! By the way, why would I haggle? check bin handled over with the card - rather simple I would say. Those trips I mention to the Caribbean? Fully half the tickets were free using my card for groceries. I rejoice that my off fees might buy me a sojourn in Santo Domingo.

Well, now Hank I was a Dreamboy patron for many years. Jupiter, I've tried and not liked, but Moonlight still has to be seen. I have it from a very reliable source that the non-model guys there might be to my taste.

Maybe, But I'm asking about Gay bars. I have never walked on walking street for fear of the wildlife!

A recent story from a venerable member here about arriving without an ATM card got me thinking about my resources should that happen or if I lost it. I've, recently, heard that bars are beginning to take credit cards for bar bills, including offs. How extensive is that? Even with my ATM I always worry that I will run short of cash on an evening out, this could relieve those worries. Does this work in Pattaya as well as Bangkok?

Yes, I know where it is. However, Patpong is an area owned by the Patpong family. Plaza Thaniya or the Japanese Soi also runs off Suriwongse, Soi TanTawan runs off Suriwongse but who would ever say that Tawan Bar or the Japanese places are in Patpong. Is Moonlight in Patpong? Sorry, I read his book years ago and it is a screed written by a man ran out of Thailand and Cambodia for his "adventures"

A theory, but I don't see any data to support it. If you are not in the market for that type then cheap/expensive or any degree in between in of no matter. I'll tell you when I raise the tip - when I'm having a great time. Also, in general, those boys outside Toy Boys who some here think can't be offed. Well, I pay them, for their beauty and I think they're worth it - age does not enter into it at all. Frankly, age only narrows the market niche for the vast majority of gay men guys have a shelf life with decreasing value. What "they" might think their worth is not a factor at all.

I do the same thing with go go bars. before sitting I give it the once over, If I don't like what I see I simply say "sorry and leave. No need to sit and buy a drink.

The "Falcon at the court of Siam" is a good read and you'll learn about the early French involvement in SE Asia and the origin of the word Farang. John Burdett's books are good and on Kindle from Amazon - I'll check out the Pira Sudham books, all in all, a very nice list.

Pong, I checked the site you mention and, while I have no personal opinion, I do want fellow posters to see this

I can drag out plenty of examples of boys I have met who are stupid, lazy, greedy Christian there are, indeed, plenty of lazy, stupid and even greedy guys who are still basically honest and won't steal from you or cause any trouble at all. You're quite right in that I'm talking about bar boys and I meet and evaluate them as companions as we sit. As a nonresident of Thailand, I have no time for the apps " no sex on the first date" Really? Sorry, I'll be at Toy boys.

I think you were right the first time. It's the bar environment. Remember Studio 54 and the hype? There was nothing, absolutely nothing inside that was not available in the other clubs of NYC. But, give the hype, the glitz, the marketing, etc. etc. and you create a sense of scarcity and push the cost up. I have yet to see Moonlight. However, I well remember the hype of Jupiter 2000, the Millenial opening, the "MODELS" ( models you could find in any gym in Bangkok! ). I went and saw nothing I wanted. But, I did see the glitz and a huge attempt to create glamor - the preferred seating, the special this and special that, the attitude. I took myself off to Dreamboys ( much different in those days ) a good reliable bar with a wide range of guys. Make no mistake, the muscle guys play to a narrow section of the customer base and if you use that hype and narrowness to create a sense of higher taste and call it special, rather than just another choice, you can charge a higher price. Take a look at the threads here that go on and on about certain guys. Fine, I get that you like them and you can suggest over and over that, I must come and see for myself. But, I have seen and there is not a single one of them that I want to sit with, dine with, or make love to. Mekhin and Tam to me are NOT attractive at all and I value them at zero. Harsh? Yes, but I say it to make my point that the "boy next door" never gets the hype, but they are the ones you bring off to Mom or, in our case, take off. So, come January I'll see the majority of you guys at Srewboys and Toyboys. By the way, I'm not, in any way, denigrating the taste of those who prefer muscles but realize that the very narrowness of the market creates a market scarcity that drives higher prices. Yes, there are fewer muscle boys, but then the business owners know damn well that the market is narrow and don't recruit thus keeping it even more narrow. They create "stars" and market them Also, before it's pointed out that this is my opinion let me add that: yes, of course, it is.

Superb work! As to the bar, I was wondering if it is possible to list the bars. Bangkok: Jupiter, Moonlight, Screw Boys, G Boys, Dreamboys, Classic boys, X men, etc. Pattaya: Toy Boys, Cupidol, etc. I'm not sure what is still open in either place. Allow posters to check all that apply as to where we off from - not visit but likely to off from.

You'll have to wait for my trip report in January.

Hum, I'm thinking no one is aware of the Americanism ( slang expression ) "to travel like Santa Claus" - I.E. - a lot.

Unless my memory is incorrect (perfectly possible) I thought Barbiery only opened in around 1985/6. It was located on the first floor of a building directly opposite Soi Twilight. The original Twilight bar on Soi Twilight was definitely open in 1982. It changed its name and its layout around 2000 to Hotmale. Before then it was much more of a sleaze bar run by two ageing mamasans. Nudity was very common every night. I dont remember any other bar in Soi Twilight but perhaps that is just because Twilight was my regular. Peter, your memory is much better than mine. I jumbled the early days from 1982 to early nineties together. I have no Idea when specific places opened or closed.