newalaan

MK is what I class as a 'compromise' eating place (as they are found everywhere in Thailand). We normally eat/cook thai food my whole trip, so we both eat the same stuff but bf can have his food flavoured/spicy to his own taste I can do likewise without spicy or mild spicy. Many visitors think Thais eat spicy all the time/every dish, but most of the food is 'normal' with chillis added, even in Issan I would say only about 50% of what we eat is chilli-spicy. The only time I eat western is when the occasional craving comes along and then I will have either one of Colonial Bar's offerings or a western breakfast at Palmers, so at other times I find MK ok for a change as we can share food together or with friend or two and it's not just the spicy issan rice-with-everything usual fare. All our normal meals always have tons of veg so the veg platter and extra mushrooms (many types), asparagus etc at MK is fine but I really like the duck there, always tender and succulent also the grilled pork (as opposed to the raw stuff you cook in the pot) is ok too. But the thais smother all the bland stuff cooked in the MK pot with their various sauces, so is acceptable. The other thing bf likes is being able to order a range of stuff for relatively small money, not huge amounts of each but a range of small dishes like small shellfish etc.. I always order a couple extra dishes of the milder sauces I like so everything has 'taste'. It's also just nice for a change where you can chat, relax and take your time over the meal while stuff is boiling, also can practice using chopsticks. Many Thais consider a visit there a 'treat' because it is probably a bit more like 'formal' restaurant, but for the fare offered it is overpriced although for westerners still not big money and as you say a bit bland and hyped-up.

Yes Royal House does, as you say, but it's a long time since I've been in there as most of the guys seem/are more on the straight/manly side.. All Of Me I previously visited (not recently) and actually had very nice rooms with in-room shower and nice décor, lighting and atmosphere. But I was more interested in the one's aussie_ had specifically mentioned/named in his post as although I had a couple of normal head/foot massages around Tuk Com last trip I didn't get round to oil massages apart from Blue House. Many of the boys outside these joints are nice guys who always chat as I pass a few times everyday on my way to/from Mosaik. But to be honest previous (a good while ago) visits to a couple of them I found only curtained-off style mats for oil massages, and on more recent trips I couldn't be bothered trying to confirm with the boys out front what exactly the facilities inside were, as if you ask about shower and oil massage or whatever they usually just say 'yes' to everything! so was hoping for actual experiences of others here with these.

Yep, that's no surprise anonone! But I am surprised how little the clubs are mentioned by visitors/members of all the forums nowadays. I know many who do visit the clubs regularly have simply stopped contributing to SGT which is a pity. I have also been surprised over the years how few visitors/expats use the clubs to hook up. My first 4-5 years visiting Thailand esp Pattaya most of my hook-ups came from clubs and karaokes. I did off boys occasionally from bars but the bulk of sexual partners were met at the likes of Disco Duck,Seventh Hole, Mummies in the very early days, then Maya, XRay, DJ Stn (Pattaya) etc.. and the karaokes. Also I found many of the boys from the clubs and karaokes didn't work in the gogo/host bars (although some did) and I found these clubs/karaokes similar to modern gay romeo where you could meet boys not on the normal bar circuit/scene. Tam Nan Issan is very like the atmosphere at these early clubs/karaokes where the bulk of customers were gay lads out for a good time, enjoying the alcohol and thereby up for approaches, or doing the approaching and quite happy to hook up with a customer as part of the night's fun. I still love going to the clubs with my bf, in fact I prefer that nowadays,there is still a great fun factor and invites to tables on way/return from toilets with flirting also still part of the fun, but I'm already with the one I would choose to go home with anyway. Looks like you are having a great time, mention of TamNan and Duks has me looking forward to next months Pattaya leg of the visit.

aussie_Thanks for these recent updates on the massage joints. Do any of the places mentioned around Tuk Com area have private/VIP rooms or are they all the curtained-off style only? I don't mind if the shower is outside the rooms, but much prefer 'private' facilities for the massage part when having oil massage, (like Blue House). Is Ice Massage the one next door to the restaurant on the corner opposite Grottinos. (Salt & Pepper?). I will also be in Jomtien for a short stay at the start of my next month's trip, but never see (m)any reports of the massage joints around Jomtien Complex on the forums, any updates would be appreciated.

Thanks for the updates, especially Chiang Mai. Very few Chiang Mai trip reports across all the gay forums nowadays. The first 6-7 years I visited Thailand 4 times per year and visited either Chiang Mai or Phuket virtually every trip and liked Chiang Mai because it was that bit different to Bkk/Pattaya experiences. I am comfortable at Thai karaokes and enjoy the fun there, and so they were the main places I hooked up when in Chiang Mai. Always stayed at P.J's Place Guesthouse after I discovered it.

Just to give another recommendation for thelimopattaya. Have used them on last few trips now and can confirm pricing as per worldatlarge, have always had large luxury vehicle usually Camray's but even had Fortuner 4x4's. Usually always book at least couple weeks in advance by email, (with quick confirmation received) but have also booked last minute by text/sms (the day before) when plans have changed and always sms confirmation quickly. Never been let down. Driver usually waiting 15-30 minutes before pick-up time. At airport once I got luggage and thro immigration very quickly, called them an hour before the due time and they were already waiting at airport. So far.......no mad driving like some of the PT Taxi drivers I got when I used them, as well as no unscheduled fuel stops around the outskirts of Pattaya.

His words were typical Thai.......total lack of tact, and not I think deliberately disrespectful, but I agree his actions were awful and totally disrespectful as well as disloyal. His words were normal for Thais as that is how they address friends/family and strangers alike. They state the facts good and bad, whereas we in the West are quick to state the good and are tactful with the negative. When I visit bf family in Thailand, because it's 3 months between visits, they always firstly declare if I am thinner, have put on weight or no change, all stated in matter-of-fact way. Often before they inform me of my changes they are quick to point out their own, especially any negative aspects, like they will quickly say...'am more black skin! working farmer!' or during holiday periods of less work when they are sitting around eating more and consider that they have put on weight will state they are, 'Ou-an (fat)', even though they look the same to me. Bf's friends will always talk together and discuss their various pluses and negatives. Especially if someone has more face spots (achne) but will also compliment if nice haircut or cute aspects. A typical comment last visit was a female friend of bf who had clearly (even to me) put on weight, it was pointed out to me in no uncertain terms she was fatter than my last visit, but that it was ok because her husband preferred something to 'hold onto to' as it were. She just nodded and laughed along with everyone, she didn't seem one bit fazed. As for the boys conduct, it was disgraceful. Whether he was paid company for his farang or worse, an actual bf, his actions of making his feelings known by staring, looking back and smiling at the Russians, were very disrespectful, especially as the boy made it so obvious that others looking on could clearly see that he was trying to interact with these Russian while in the company of his companion. A Thai would be very unhappy if the other way around, purely for the massive 'loss of face' aspect. He made his companion look a complete fool, and was totally disrespectful. It is no excuse just because they happened to be in a gay area with attractive young guys there. What was the boy expecting to come out of that situation, other than something negative given he was completely blanked by the Russians, yet still had to be in the company of the companion he made to look foolish? Provoked?? into making a comment...hardly! he took it upon himself to say what he did. What he is supposed to say? how about something like 'there are a couple of attractive Russians over there, aren't they beautiful' which if they were would be perfectly normal. Having a 'look' is normal, staring and blatantly trying to attract the attention of others while in the company of a companion is not, it is damn rude. Again...'diplomatic answer? I hardly think so!......no....it was a typical clumsy, lactless Thai answer, which given the circumstances was totally un-necessary, why did he need to point out that his companion was 'not beautiful'? or make any comparison just because the two Russians were beautiful. It was something not needed to be pointed out, most people know what they look like without the need to have it bluntly drawn to their attention.

Great to see you had such a good time anonone. Hope you do manage to post more. The boyfriend thing is weird and wonderful. When I first started visiting Thailand I could never see me going down that road, in fact for the first 7-8 years of visiting.....a boyfriend was the very last thing on the agenda. But when I did bump into my now boyfriend that-was-that! nearly a year of getting to know him during my fairly brief visits to Issan as part of my Thailand trips, then we just settled into each other, that was 8 years ago. I packed a lot into those years before I settled with my bf and escaped with very little 'scars' to show for it even after playing the field the whole time with occasional giks/favourites here and there but no ties to anyone. You do well to juggle both, I don't off guys on my trips nowadays, bfs 'demands' keep me well satisfied with the only allowance we make for each other is occasional massages with mechanical happy ending. No giks, no one night stands and I don't really miss it, I can interact/flirt/banter with boys in the bars and clubs and still enjoy that part of the Pattaya trip. Like you, I can never find time during my visits to update a daily forum trip report, don't know how the guys who do, manage it! I don't always do a trip report as much of my itinerary is repeat, but do try to update info where I can for others who make the effort to post their's. Have considered a condo in Jomtien many times, and I do sometimes/usually have 2-3 nights at the start of a trip there, but stay at East Suites hotel. It's the transport to and from Sth Pattaya which always puts me off, that and the fact we are very happy at Mosaik Apts. Most of our activity is in Sth Pattaya, me in virtually every early evening in sunee, and most nights in BT sois, clubs NAB/TamNanIssan etc.. which are all easily accessible from Sth Pattaya as well as Wat Chai for late night food, and as I travel around the Kingdom for 2/3rd's of a trip I like to have compact surroundings of South Pattaya for the 10 days or so we are in Pattaya. Unlucky trip for you on 2nd Rd, could have been worse though! I have had one full-on motorbike accident on a late night motocy trip along soi bokow on way back from late night club, and felt very lucky to escape injury, but have managed to elude all the Pattaya pavement/soi traps awaiting........despite some very worse-for-wear states after bar hopping/clubbing! Pure luck! It's great to book your next trip right after the last, for me anyway that helps makes the time apart from bf a bit easier to put up with. You are there again ahead of me in Jan, I'm next there start/early February for a month. Thanks for taking time to post, enjoyed the read.

Yes +1 from me also. I have a friend into Ladyboys who posts over on www.ladyboyspattaya.com and so I sometimes have a look over there. Vesseys thread is very like the trip reports over there, lots of explicit detail with photos and written like a daily diary. Even though Vesseys were long posts, they were easily read and understood when skipping through as I tend to do especially when I come to the detailed sexual exploits of others. I tend to skip past those on all the gay Thailand forums as I'm not interested in gory details of others......we know what happens when fucking and sex take place as that's what we are all doing. But I do enjoy details of bars, massages, venues, places, accommodations, the ups and downs, challenges faced and generally what makes up the holidays of others. A lot of info can come in very handy to enhance your own future visits. Unlike williewillie, I would always be encouraging of ANY trip reports irrespective if they do also include female encounters, and details of bar areas I don't visit. I don't think that there can ever be too many trip reports on the forums, indeed over the last couple years there has been a dearth, especially over at SGT which was always known for the trip report contributions of members. Glad gaythailand has taken up the slack, with plenty of quality trip and massage shop reports such as Vessey's well written one. It is appreciated when members take the time to post their experiences.

Well I can actually contribute on this one as I too had a massage there during my very recent Thailand/pattaya visit. Just to lay the ground of my massage preferences, as I live with bf when in Pattaya, I only use them for occasional visits when knackered during a trip. It is the one allowance bf and I make regarding sex outside our relationship, that is massage with mechanical happy ending if it happens. No lovey-doveyness, giks, or full sex wanted or required.......all that stuff is already catered for between us and there's not much energy or will left! So choosing a masseur is fairly easy for me, it is nice to have someone you are attracted to, but not a necessity. But I did choose the masseur when I visited Blue House as the boys there always chat, say hello to me as I pass to and from Mosaik daily even knowing I rarely visit for massage. So picked the friendly guy who always comes across to chat. Massage I think Bt400, for oil. Led upstairs to private room with platform and mattress, aircon,. Showers just outside room, cant remember if room locked or not. Masseur showered with me, making sure he saw to me first. My massages are always soft gentle affairs, hate the firm one's. Masseur asked a few times if pressure was ok. Had my MP3 so just let the music from the open speakers, not too loud, help the relaxed atmosphere. I like a lazy massage where I do nothing except get pampered. When it comes to erotic part I never ever do anything remotely requiring exertion on my part so when, surprisingly, the masseur asked me to fuck him, I declined in favour of said mechanical happy end. I say surprisingly because on first looks I didn't take him for a bottom! Masseur was lovely, very attentive making sure I was comfortable. When he did bring up the sex part I just said I was too knackered for sex (the truth), he just said...maybe next time? Happy with Bt1000 as expected, and I was more than happy with the experience. I can certainly understand why many here are happy to use the massage shops for their sex than going through the bar offing or online hook-ups route. Things are more certain and less room for problems. Certainly if you prefer short time it is everything wrapped up in one neat little package with no more than 90 mins of your time. I wouldn't class your comment as "unbelievably ridiculous" as it's perfectly true that there have been quite a bit of those on the forum recently, but surely that's the great thing about how different and wide ranging our various interests in gaythailand are. I have enjoyed the trip reports about ladyboys and/or females here as it is a world I don't inhabit and so find it interesting. If you were just being a little naughty looking for a response from the usual suspect, well you certainly had some success there! haha.

Thanks for taking to time to post your trip experiences. I am due in Thailand in a few days and Pattaya will be part of it, so it's nice to get recent/current updates. I mainly visit in low season months, by chance rather than deliberate, and I am happy to be there no matter the month, season, quiet/busy. Have to agree that I prefer not to be the only customer in a bar, apart from the intensity of so many eyes looking in your direction (which I can put up with!) it's really not that much fun. But I never just look into a bar to see if it is busy first, I always just enter, sit for a drink and see the lay of the land, all it means is I find myself drinking quicker than I like and moving on elsewhere. No big deal but I also prefer a busy bar with other customers. Nice also to get updates on massage shops, my last trip in June I used them more than previous trips, especially for foot/neck/head massages and it added to the enjoyment of my stay in Pattaya. Glad your trip was successful.

I visit at least 3 times per year, (sometimes 4 depending if extra special occasion) for 3-4 weeks each visit. Trips are about 3 months apart with the next one booked before or immediately after returning from the previous one. Been visiting since 2000. Like biguyby I still find some new discovery each trip as I travel around the kingdom as well as the stays in Bkk and Pattaya. Also I look forward to each and every one as much as I did my first. The first year I travelled to Thailand /Singapore for business with a side trip for 'social activities' added, thereafter travelling for social activities with very rare/occasional business side trip. My second trip (non business) in 2000 I travelled from a UK regional airport via London Heathrow direct for £630 economy, I just booked economy flight for October this year on KLM via Amsterdam for under £500 (+extra for upgrade to more comfortable seat). So 15 years on the flight is £130 cheaper! Surprisingly......so many other costs in Thailand have hardly changed over those 15 years either, and most of the one's which have increased, the %'s have been small in comparison to those in Europe over the same time frame.

Just to update with regards to Ballys Silom (now D'Varee) I have stayed there a few times over the years. Normally 2 or 3 night stay at start of trip as it's an east taxi ride from Airport and you are right in the middle of a busy Bkk. For 2-3 night stays I'm usually not so fussy about room size etc.. but have found Ballys(D'Varee) more than ideal for a short stay right in the middle of Silom/Surawong. They have 2 room sizes the larger is usually way more expensive than the standard and probably not worth the difference as I find the standard just fine for a couple nights. The fixtures and fittings are good quality and have remained in excellent condition over the years I have stayed there, with wooden floors, dark wood furniture and fittings well maintained, the bathroom is modern and well kept with a huge shower cubicle the width of the bathroom. Flat screen tv, free WiFi, tea/coffee making facilities. Not all rooms have a window to the outside, but I have stayed in one room without windows and they have a 'fake' window screen which is quite clever and the room 'appears' to have a window. The one's with windows have no view as the hotel has buildings attached/very close , and at one side is the DJ Station/JJ Park Soi 2 complex. I have had a room on this side and you can hear the DJ Station music till the early hours, for the likes of me out enjoying night-life it is not an issue, and I can sleep no matter what noise surrounds me but for very light early bed sleepers it could be an issue. As with most hotels best rates are well in advance, as I book my next flight/trip to Thailand at the end of my previous one I can always get very reasonable rates there a few weeks in advance. I find after a long trip from Europe to Thailand and a keen-ness to soak up the atmosphere close to my accommodation I do like a room on the doorstep of Silom sois 2/4 and Suriwong for fist 2-3 nights and can't really be that bothered to have hassles with taxis/walking outside Silom soi 2-6 and Suriwong/Patpong. I am booked here again at start of June so will see if room quality has been maintained. Yes, sad to have this confirmed. I have always stayed at different (but regular) places in the silom/suriwong area like Ballys, Baan Saladaeng, Tarntawan, Om Yim and for years Om Yim was a regular. At one time they had a huge room on the very top floor with dining table, kitchen area, microwave etc... a lovely big room which was not all that more expensive than the larger standard rooms there, and I liked the whole Om Yim ambiance as I hate the bland International Hotel Chains when in the far east. I didn't manage a stay there for over a year at one time and when I went back to the only available large standard room I just found the 'wear and tear' overly excessive in the room, even the TV connections, safe didn't work and especially the bathroom was looking very poor. I always expected that to happen there, as the brand new room fittings were never good quality, and that was the problem. Sink leaking, doors not fitting, very worn woodwork, it just looked like there had been nil room maintenance (not talking about room cleaning) over the years and instead of getting things fixed as soon as they were broken they were just being left barely usable. To be honest I don't think it would take a whole truck-load of money to tidy it up and get fixtures and fittings smartened up, re-grouting tiling in bathroom, fixing up leaking pipes, a new shower head etc.. It might make all the difference.

Me too. But like you I never about-turn, I just get a drink and if it is awkward or there is not much interaction from the stage, drink it quicker than usual and onto the next bar. If the mamasan is not too objectionable (not many of them around) it's about the only situation I put up with one chattering to me..... I've never understood this notion. How many boys do you intend to off each evening......69? What competition can there possibly be for the hundreds of bar/gogo/massage/club/general boys who are in Pattaya at any one time of the year. So once you have picked your boy for the night what happens to the other 750 who you have not taken off? Selfish and very short-sighted. How do you possibly expect all of these bars, agogos, show bars, massage shops, clubs etc to survive if it is permanently quiet just to suit you? As I say when you have picked your one boy from the 3 bars you visit which you hope to be quiet, and you have paid your Bt120 or maybe Bt200 for the drink, where on earth do you expect the difference to be made up from for them to run at a profit so they can exist for YOUR next visit? And also where do you expect all the boys you reject to get money to eat, pay rent, earn a living to be available for YOUR next trip? Sorry to sound so negative with the poster but I really just don't understand this attitude. I tend to visit in low season simply because I prefer christmas/new year back in Scotland. But when visiting during low season in June and September/October have always found huge numbers of available boys way outnumbering potential clients, it could actually do with far MORE 'competition'! I really wish the gay scene in boystown/sunee/jomtien was much,much busier than it is in low season. I find the busier the better for ALL concerned, as Traveller Dave comments, an empty bar is really no fun. Also if things are busier (read: more competition) the boys react more positively in my opinion. I cannot envisage a single situation where anyone/everyone is a winner when there is less 'competition' from gay farangs....except for those who are self-centred perhaps. Low season. high season, in-between season, I'm just happy to be in Thailand whatever the season, month, weather or gay farang 'competition'.

Thanks for helpful information and replies. Never thought just a foot massage would be 1 hour duration, I only have 1 hour for full body oil massage and find that just about right timewise inc happy endings! But the only way to find out how long is ideal is to try it. Thanks for the detail in the reply. Your idea of a full-body oil massage differs from mine. I don't like 'stong techniques'! I always ask for bao-bao, soft soft, I just like my muscles to be gently massaged, except maybe for upper thighs which were used to strongish massages when I played football/soccer especially as I was still playing to my mid-forties and needed all the help I could get to recover. Thanks for the helpful reply and as I noted in farangyai's reply I was surprised that a foot massage is still expected to last 1 hour. Tipping details were especially helpful as I have just no experience with non-full body oil massages where I always tip Bt1000, never less. So it's good to know reasonable tips are appreciated. And fair comment to farangyai's reasons for a slightly higher tip level. I definitely plan to fit in some normal massage shop massages on my up coming visit to Thailand, seems I may have missed out some nice relaxing moments this last 15 years! ha. I will use the Bkk silom/suriwong area shops but with regards to Pattaya massage shops around Tuk Com, has anyone visited the one directly opposite the rear exit/entrance to Tuk Com? When I have an oil massage I always pick the masseur I prefer irrespective if they run a list, when having a foot/standard massage do you still have the choice of masseur or is one assigned to you? Not that it's an issue for a foot massage, but would hope to chat during the massage so would prefer someone I specifically like as many of the massage lads stop me to chat when I pass their shops around Tuk Com as I go back and forth to my apartment in Mosaik, it would be nice to have one of those who makes an approach to do the massage.

I have had tons of massages over the last 15 years or so I've been visiting Thailand, but they have always been full-body oil style massage in the likes of Blue House (Pattaya) or Bonnys (Bkk). I like a lazy massage, just like to get pampered, usually after a few days of clubbing, bar hopping and walking around to get the batteries re-charged. But I have passed the small massage shops dotted around Tuk-com/ Pattaya, Silom-Suriwong/Bkk and sometimes considered maybe just having a 'normal' head/shoulders or foot massage. The boys who sit outside at these places are always trying to get you inside. Do many here use the massage shops for standard massages as well as full-body/happy-ending massages? If so what is the etiquette? For feet/lower legs massage, just off your footwear and roll up jeans/trouser legs? Do they wash feet first? and head shoulders do they just massage over shirt/tee-shirt or is it top off? How long for these massages, oil is usually 1 hour, but foot, head/shoulders, are they normally 30 mins or more? And cost? I've never stopped to check the price list for each massage type. I assume normal massages always done on the lower ground massage shop on the benches/chairs you can see when passing. Tips for a 'standard' massage? Another trip is due soon and just want a bit of info. Thanks for any detailed replies.

Another recommendation for Limo Pattaya from me too. Excellent service from both Suvarnabhumi at Bt1200 and central Bkk at Bt1500 to Pattaya. Large comfortable cars with reliable, steady drivers. Well it is a personal thing I suppose, the fact bus travel between Bkk and Pattaya it is not door-to-door and you need to get to the bus departure point as well as having to get from the drop-off point in Pattaya to your chosen hotel is just too much of a hassle for me. I really don't understand why anyone travelling half way round the planet from western countries to Thailand for a holiday on a flight costing anything from Bt25,000 to Bt50,000+ can be bothered dragging their luggage from hotel to bus terminal and from bus terminal to hotel for the sake of Bt1000/£20 difference. If it is in one of those death-trap small vans it is even more beyond me.

Not a lot to go on Peter, some detail would get more precise responses. Where in Bkk are you planning to stay? price range? and also importantly when? Even though you indicated the hotel does not have to be 'gay' it certainly makes for a more relaxed ambiance if gay. If it is silom area as Vinapu suggests there would be very few hotels who would object to a joiner/guest, some may take the 'opportunity' to charge for the guest, especially some of the high-end chains. If in Silom area, as others have indicated Tarntawan Place Hotel has a very relaxed, easy atmosphere and guests come-and-go all the time, you'll pay between Bt2,000 and Bt3,000 per night, but worth it in my opinion.I always book here at the end of a trip for easy access to Airport (45min-hour). I booked D'Varee, Silom (previously Ballys Suites) soi 2 silom right in the mix, for a short early June visit, huge range of prices depending when you plan to stay, deluxe/superior, with/without breakfast etc.. A Standard (described as deluxe) was Bt1250 when I booked 2-3 weeks ago, it is now Bt1440 for same. Not huge but modern rooms, nicely presented, nice bathroom with huge shower cabinet, flat screen TV, free WiFi, tea/coffee making facilities, wooden style flooring...and unlike Om Yim which is now very, very worn probably due to quality of original fixtures, everything is still in near-pristine condition at D'Varee. Hope some of this helps. Just as an aside, it would be interesting to know what aspect(s) of Pattaya you found 'awful'.

Much like some of the rooms at Blue House......bed, chair and shower inside or outside room is all that's needed for massage. Your comments certainly didn't come across as negative, grateful for the detail. I've always had excellent experiences when stopping in by Two Faces for a drink too, just didn't realise there were in-house massage facilities.

I agree with most of the things you tend to say 'williewillie' but not this. You can never be too nice, polite and pc, to anybody, be that working boys or friends, these are traits which will be respected and responded to, if you really meant to say "too gullible, soft-touch, giving-in to demands easily" instead of being firm and unambiguous that to me is different. You can be perfectly firm with friends/acquaintances/working boys and at the same time retain politeness, niceness and correctness in your attitudes. In my personal experiences this goes much further in getting at least some respect and at the same time not being treated as weak/foolish. Yes I agree it helps if boys have thick skins to survive the barboy world but I find so many of them are not, many simply don't have it in their DNA and are just ordinary boys lured-in through friends and attempts to improve their situations in life quickly, and are not hardened professionals. Time of course does drain innocence away but many are just outgoing, fun loving, young lads/men who have found they can earn a bit extra through their good looks. Despite their manipulative ways many are incredibly naïve and sweet. They don't all fall victim to drugs and useless hangers-on. Many are a world away from their thick-skinned, hardened western equivalents, isn't that one of the main reasons we like them so much?

Thanks for the updates, I didn't realise Two Faces had massage/short time rooms. (I know they have hotel/guesthouse rooms) When you say 'a little basic' are they individual rooms as opposed to the 'curtains' style and have a shower? Although on many occasions I realise the massage fee will just be a cover for short time off, do they actually have massage oil, towels etc and are happy to perform massage? Probably most of the guys in the gay massage places have only very basic 'skills' but a light body/muscle rub is all I like in a massage anyway, not really interested in deep/strong massages and thus never interested in strong manly-massage boy types, a big turn off and not enjoyable for me. Before massage I always ask for bao-bao/soft. The Happy Massage would probably not be a place I would enjoy, I like private room and a good hot shower is a must, hate that 'curtain' places. I'm surprised Jomtien does not have more Bonny/Blue House style gay massage places. I'm not a great fan of beach areas (sitting in sun/swimming) but have started to visit Dong Tan a little more over last couple years, but I regard Jomtien/Jomtien Complex just another bar area as opposed to a beach area, not sure why you would be put off just because it's near a beach. Over the years I visited Jomtien loads of times and haven't been near the beach! Like 'Biguyguy' and 'frequentflyer' gogos are something I don't miss in Jomtien and think it's good to have areas with their own style. I don't off guys from the gogos nowadays (unless it's a friend to go to club or folk/rock club with) as I have bf, but still like to visit gogos for fun, laughs and simply because my home country has nothing to compare, but I can visit BT/Sunee for that. I usually stay in Mosaik South Pattaya and when there, use a visit to Jomtien for a change of pace/scene. Although I have stayed in Jomtien complex for very short stays before this will be one of the first times I plan to spend all my time in Jomtien when staying there. I will visit the rest of Pattaya when I return later in my trip after visits to bf home and other places in Thailand we fancy.

Not many detailed updates/reports regarding Jomtien recently across all the forums, other than the general 'it seems busy' or details of the Dong Tan beach traders. Rarely see actual bars and venues being reviewed or discussed. It's sometimes nice to get updates prior to a trip. Have booked a short stay in Jomtien at the start of my upcoming Thailand visit at East Suites and this time I plan just to enjoy the Jomtien area and leave the other areas to later in the trip. Last trip in October it was lively enough there compared to other areas. Anyone there now or recently visited have any current Jomtien bar/venue updates, openings/closures? I assume The Venue still runs shows, and can anyone confirm if Oh Yes! is still open. Massage shop options? never had massage in Jomtien Complex area only in South Pattaya. Thanks in advance for any info.

Vinapu, nice to see you are generous when engaging in sexual activity with masseurs, however.......and it's just being kinda 'picky' I don't agree that a fit young Thai guy should find giving a massage as being 'hard, physical' work. Hard physical work from my experience (as an onlooker) is 6 hours planting/cutting rice in searing heat up in Issan, or 8-12 hours shelf filling at 7-11/Tesco Lotus or a 12 hour shift at a Navanakorn Industrial estate, now that is 'hard, physical work'! Sitting around for 6 hours of an eight hour shift with and hour of kneading the body of a customer is not. The part however that to me deserves a reasonable tip is not any physical exertion, it's having to engage in intimate, sexual activity with someone you have not chosen yourself as a preference. For that very same reason I have to respectfully disagree with z909, any 'trouser dropping' or intimate sexual act even HJ to me should be worth minimum Bt1000. Here is an attractive young lad attending to your sexual needs, a HJ is still an intimate experience. If a masseur asked for only Bt500 I would still give Bt1000. But that's just how I personally feel about such things. On the comment about masseurs leaving it to the client, in my own personal experience in massage shops Bkk,Phuket and Pattaya that has happened 100% of the time, I have never asked or been asked for a specific tip, but if they do leave it to the client I would think many/most would be disappointed with Bt500 for engaging in any sexual content with a foreigner.

TMax good on you for the Bt1500 tips at the massage joints, that will definitely be appreciated. As ridiculous as it sounds I still give Bt1000 at the massage joints Bkk or Pattaya as I did more than a decade ago for anything with sexual content. I have never used the massage places for proactive/enthusiastic/sex-requiring-effort as I always have enough of that back in the room, and being a top sometimes I just like to lay back and be ultra lazy leaving the masseur to do all the work. Massage has always just been a weekly affair simply because I'm knackered with late nights, Clubbing, walking around, never engage in full sex unless the guy doing the massage asks for it. (I never hire gay-for-pay/straight guys, always only hire genuinely gay lads...so it does happen!) Their oil massage combined with happy-ending techniques are so good I just find it so relaxing and enough for me. I have never tipped less than Bt1000 at massage, if the guy is naked, kisses, and BJ/HJ included Bt1000 should always be minimum/standard. I also have never discussed either the tip or expected 'service' at a massage place in my life, I just let the thing run it's course, I have never not had a happy ending of some kind or other. Hate it when punters try to be tight with tips at massage trying to get away with Bt500 or less than Bt1000. I only ever go/went to Bonny and the Soi Twilight massage shops in Bkk and Bt1000 has always been accepted with a wai and smile. Even at that rate I have had masseurs in Bkk ask for mobile number and in my early days of visiting had 2-3 regular massage guys come to my hotel usually when I stayed in Saphan Kwai outwith their massage hours. We would meet up, go for a drink at a karaoke place around Saphan kwai area or Rachada clubs and back to the hotel, sometimes short-time, sometimes long time. Uni guys usually liked short time except at weekends. If other punters pay more than Bt1000 (and I know a few massage boys who have told me some customers esp Jap/Korean pay Bt2000 and up) I just think good for them. I realise there are some more upscale massage places in Bkk where expected tips are are higher than Bt1000 but I've never visited them, the Soi Twilight shops always have someone to take care of my needs and I've never been disappointed.

Floridarob...nothing has changed, 3 years is no time at all in Thai years, basically everything is just the same. Ok maybe some agogo's in Soi Twilight may be another 50 or 100 baht for a drink/entrance but that's about it. The only thing that might change is 'expectations' but reality soon sorts that out! In Issan the situation hasn't changed significantly in a decade never mind 3 years. A decade ago it cost me Bt1000 for a taxi from Airport to Pattaya, last trip was Bt1000. Short time a decade ago was Bt1500 in Bkk and Bt1000 IN Pattaya.....same Long time a decade ago was Bt2000 in Bkk and Bt1500 in Pattaya......same. Sex in a standard gay massage shop Bt1000 a decade ago...now? Bt1000. Even these levels are 'negotiable' if so inclined. OH!! one significant change!! DJ Station has gone up! Bt100>Bt150!! Military coup? In reality nothing has changed...the rich get richer the poor remain as is. Some 'tinkering' here and there with this and that......as I say nothing has changed. What I really mean is any slight increases in taxi rates, BTS, goods, services etc etc..will hardly be noticeable. Nothing significant.