DivineMadman

Wow. Sorry to hear about your bad experience and especially sorry to hear that the manager's response was not helpful. If he has control of the extra locker key then he should be responsible if anyone gets it and steals. (And it is also his responsibility that any extra locker keys are kept absolutely secure.)

Thanks for the great reports. Glad you had a good time.

Incorporating Paulsf's reply and getting the dream boys show time from another post, here is a list of the soi twilight bars, but for many I only have the start of the first show. Not on this list is Tawan, Jupiter or Screwboys. They all have their fans and their detractors. Also there is a fun show at DJ Station, if you are willing to ignore the fact that occasionally they have a character in blackface (no shit), but I forget when that starts - I think 11:00?? The big Thai dance clubs like App Arena and Fake Club have good dance club shows, different from the dicks-on-parade shows at the soi twilight bars, but maybe save those for another trip... It looks like you could maximize viewing the shows by catching the first hour of Hot Male, then going across the street to the 10:30 show at X-Boys and then hop down the street for the 11:55 show at Fresh Boys. And these would be three good shows, IMHO. I don't know/can't remember if that would get you the best (raunchiest) of Hot Male show. Three different shows would of course mean 3 different cover/drink charges I think at 400 each of these bars. I am sure there are other combinations available if you know the later shows for some of the other bars. [bTW, with the exception of Hot Male, which is a bit different with several smaller shows throughout, I think the "second" show at a bar may often be a bit smaller than the first show.] Soi Twilight GoGo Bar Shows Hot Male 9:30, 10:30, 12:30. Sort of rolling smaller scale shows but a bit of everything with boys on parade during the breaks. It’s actually a nice set up. Recent confirmed sightings of J/O and F+++ing. Worth seeing for the boom boom if nothing else. Mamasans not too bad. X-Boys. 10:30 and ?. Longest show and a very good show with a bit of everything. Lot’s of guys. Lots of erect cocks. Simulated f+++ing. Definitely Worth seeing. Mamasans a little pushy, but a polite "no" buys you 20 minutes before they ask again, which is not bad. Fresh Boys. 10:00, 11:55. Very good show with some very energetic dancers. F+++ing goes on behind a semi-transparent curtain, which makes that scene kind of a yawn, but the rest is good. Mamasans a little pushy. Dream Boys. [10:30] and ?. Big show. Haven’t seen it this year but I hear it hasn’t really changed. Personally not a fan. X-Boys and Fresh Boys do it all just as well without the attitude (and with lower prices). I thought mamasans not pushy. X-Size. 10:30 and ?. Last year the show was pretty standard same same the others. Haven't been this year. Mamasans are a little pushy but I think not too bad. Classic Boys. 10:30 and ?. Pretty mediocre show these days. Even the boys are a bit embarrassed. One scene with naked erect guy swimming in the tank, so forget the "sexy mermen" idea. Yawn. Go to Classic Boys for twinks, not for the show. Worst mamasans on the street.

Once when I was there all were standing near each other. When you and I went, no organization. Maybe it depends on that day's manager? When I went to Hero all the bottoms were in the front row.

You have hit on a big flaw in the [my] system for Baantewa. They don't post pictures on their website or Facebook and don't do regular Line "blasts." For first timers, I think the basic answer is you would have to walk-in, and after-that you could know the name(s) of specific guys to book ahead if you want. You can call and make a "reservation" as their website suggests (or I suppose you could message them on Facebook), but I have never done that. I don't know if they will send pictures. They might. I also have no idea if they will get into a who-does-what discussion on the phone. [For all I know it's a place where every guy is - or is supposed to be - vers.] If you're staying near them, of course it's easy to swing by and book ahead right out of the book. I put "book ahead" as recommended just because it's got at most 8-10 guys sometimes 1-2 available, which makes me worry someone could go there and be very unhappy to find out no one is currently available. It's never happened to me, but a worry. (Same conclusion for Leo Spa.) I rate them highly because (1) I think the quality control on the massages is better than most, (2) even if my hypothetical third or fourth choice masseur from the book were to be the only one available he's still more than handsome enough (by my tastes), (3) I go here not expecting more than a very good happy ending, don't need/want full on boom boom every time. Others may have different priorities. If all this starts getting too complicated, take a pass on them. https://www.facebook.com/Baantewa-Male-Massage-1582996898638736/?fref=ts

There is an older khatoey (or very unfortunate woman) still there. One of the mamasans would occasionally act rather flouncy to get attention or be entertaining?, which I found rather off-putting because it was obviously meant to be parody. Both would even occasionally interact with the dancers, which was also off-putting. Still, I found them easy to ignore, although the khatoey took no interest in me Sad to let them deprive you of the opportunity to see so many good looking guys and a great show.

No doubt some will say that you're bound to find one you like at many massage shops, but for a large selection I think for mature: Arena & Hero (tied for 1st place), Adonis (2d) and Prince (3d). Adonis is 2d in my list only because there may be a smaller selection of mature guys depending on when you get there, but you'll still be happy. Prince is 3d because I think their sweet spot is guys who are (or look) late 20s early 30s but they have a few WOW mature guys. Club 61 and Nine seem to have several mature guys, but haven't been and can't recommend.

Made it back to X-Boys on Soi Twilight last night. A friend from Vietnam has to work there for a few days (long story), so I said I would go for the show and sit with him. Before the show there are coyote dancers in matching pink briefs dancing on a couple of cubes and the guys parading around on (and off) stage in matching white briefs. I lost count at thirty. Because there are so many guys, they break it up into groups of 15-18 guys. Each group does several rounds on the stage and then the other group takes over, while the first group of boys walk around a bit trying to make eye contact and then sit down and check their phones or go for a smoke. [Of the guys at this bar, I think only a couple are on Hornet or Grindr.] There are a lot lot of guys from Vietnam and Laos/Isaan and I am sure everywhere else. (The only confirmed Thai-only gogo bar I am aware of are Jupiter and Dreamboys.) The selection of guys is huge. No real steroid-looking bodybuilders or skinny skinny waifs or fem, but lots of everything in between. The show starts at 10:30. The music is particularly ear-deafening. Ear plugs recommended. After the coyote dancers did a short routine of their own the show proper started with a lip-synch diva number, followed by a shower scene with two large-cocked guys who then came further down stage and simulated caressing and oral and boom boom. A vaguely traditional thai dance with most of the dancers all fully-erect and huge (encased in latex, of course) that devolved into a one-on-one with particularly huge guys giving head and sort of faking intercourse. A candle dance with a lip-synching drag queen in a medusa head-dress - with the guys of course fully erect and impressive. More of the same -- another drag number, a few more dances with the guys eventually losing what little clothes they had, big cocks, some oral play and maybe faking some other stuff. A sunglass-wearing guy comes out and jerks off. At the end most of the guys from the show come out for another big cock show. Probably about 12-14 guys. For this final number the guys removed the condoms (but kept the cock rings). The show ended at 12:00, so it is a very long show. No actual fucking, unlike some of the other bars. There is a second show, but couldn't understand when. The bar was full of customers. The show is a winner, if too loud. Unlike, some of the others bars, most (all?) of the dance numbers involve prodigiously-endowed guys fully-erect. Selection of available guys is great. Mamasans attentive but not too pushy. All drinks 400. I didn't ask but my guess is the off-fee is 500. [boy gets 50b if you buy him a drink. If he is not off'd he gets 150b from the bar.]

By the end of a research session, not hard at all.

Thanks. Agree - I think they just think it is pleasant music for westerners. I am sure they are not playing "O Come All Ye Faithful" at all ironically. If I did ask I don't remember name.

Good idea about the links to the business specific post-lets. Will see if I can do so without adding more clutter to the already over cluttered chart.

Thanks. I'll be here until mid-late April so will continue working on reports and ways to present the data. Will post it all as final new topic so it is a little easier to find. Hope that helps.

I've tried to put some info and ratings on a spread sheet. It's not done but I thought I would share it in case people have suggestions. May the shameless one live on! https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_bpYWk8gsUdZy1YVUJpY19HdTg/view?usp=sharing

Hi guys. Back from a great time in Vietnam. First thing I did was go to Baantewa where there is a masseur who I like. I won't bore you with that. One new report and in a separate post I'll try to share a first draft I ginned up as a way to try to get some of the info in a more compact format a la Shameless Mack. The report is a bit long because it's really three massages in one and it's not your traditional massage shop. Spa Bangkok (Silom Branch). Spa Bangkok has a few branches in BKK. I have generally ignored it because they have a set up where you become a member or buy packages of massages, which isn't really relevant for tourists. But they do regularly seem to have special promotions for tourists that let you get one massage or (more) and all the earlier talk on gaythailand about lingam/tantric massages made me think I should try Spa Bangkok because they offer a tourist only 3 hour scrub + tantric + oil massage. The facilities are definitely the nicest I have seen in Bangkok outside of the nicer hotels. A very nice zen reception area. Rooms are lovely with attached shower all done up very nicely. They recommend you book at least a day ahead, so I popped in and did that, paid my 500 deposit and was given the chance to select my masseur from photos on the tablet. My first time at a shop I usually try to go with the flow and see how the shop is without my own micromanagement so I just said there were too many guys for me to pick from. Manager asked if I wanted strong massage or not, so I said strong, and the manager said he would recommend one or two when I got there the next day. (BTW - English spoken very well here by manager and masseur.) Spa Bangkok is in the same building as Arena, but it is an entirely different experience. I showed up at the appointed time and after a nice glass of water just told the manager to pick for me. I was asked to fill out a brief questionnaire sort of "Tell us about your penis" - are you cut/uncut, do you have difficulty getting erections. do you have a premature ejaculation issue. Then there is a paragraph that tells you the tantric massage is serious business and you should tell the masseur if you are about to cum, otherwise you won't get the full benefits and you have to sign the form to acknowledge this. (I wonder if they do this so they can show the health department.) I was shown to my room by my very cute university-student looking guy who told me to shower and then sit and soak my feet. The shower, by the way, has a rain shower and is huge. Freshly showered I dutifully soaked my feet in hot cucumber water for a couple of minutes until my masseur arrived to wash my feet and we were off. The promotion actually describes it as tantric + scrub +oil, so I assumed it would proceed in that order. (Made sense, the scrub could help recover from the release-free tantric massage.) No, he started with the scrub, which was nice although I think it's hard to get thrilled about being exfoliated. Masseur was very thorough - but not too rough - and the scrub took 1 hour. After the scrub I showered and lay down and the masseur told me to wait as there would be change of therapists. !!! I am pretty sure the manager/front desk guy then came in and gave me the tantric massage, but I didn't look too closely because when he walked in I just looked up quickly decided he was very handsome so I didn't really care who it was. I vaguely recall the tantric massages I had in India and the organ massage at Dr. Bear as being nice but also limited to genital area. Here it was much more erotic and fun because his spare hand would wander all over and in a very sensual way. The tantric massage was delightful, I was able to control myself and it was over in I think about 20 or so minutes. (By contrast, I think at Dr. Bear the massage will last as long as your credit card does.) After a couple of minutes, my original masseur - who remained fully-clothed throughout - came in and gave me certainly the best massage I've had here in Bangkok in recent memory. It was a real strong massage, which was what I wanted. Because I find Spa Bangkok so odd, I had no idea whether there would be a happy ending, but I am pleased to say there was, and it was, like everything else here, well done. (With the tantric massage and all, I even got a genuine "wow" from the masseur as the happy ending reached its happiest moment.) The massage continued for a bit after and ended very near to the 3 hour mark. Shower alone. The tip policy is a suggested 500 for a body massage. I took this to be a suggested 1,000-1,500 for what is in effect almost 3 massages. Oddest thing was that there were orchestral arrangements of Christmas carols playing in the background throughout the massage(s). Another slightly odd thing was that when I was chatting with the manager about who to pick and whether I wanted strong or not, I had a vague feeling that this was some sort of code for top or bottom but the place is too high class for us to say that openly, but it was just a vibe. I can't really be sure. [Even so I definitely would not go there expecting full on sex.] Bottom line: It's crazy ridiculous expensive and so I will have to skip a massage or gogo bar trip to get back on track. But if you feel like splurging and pampering yourself, go for it. I certainly hope to go back, but not for this package. They currently offer a 90 minute massage promotion for tourists for 1,690 (plus 500 tip policy) = about 2,200, which is in line with many other massage shops, although I think probably without the full on romping around you may get in the other places, if that is important to you.

BYD Lofts is upscale and very gay-friendly/pro-gay in Patong but pricey if you don't catch in internet deal. Very nice rooms and people. Far enough away from the hordes that you can enjoy some quiet. The much less expensive Siam Palm is right across the street from BYD Lofts. I was surprised at how nice the rooms were. In my experience working boys love a visit to Phuket and you can have a nice stay at one of the chain resorts outside Patong and venture in to the town for evening festivities when it suits you and your guy. Le Meridien (in Khao Lak) no surprise is very nice if you are an SPG person. Probably off-topic a bit but there is some great SCUBA from Phuket if you want to break things up and are certified. I've used Sunrise Divers including for trips out to the Similans, which is truly outstanding diving. (Personally I think the best diving in Thailand.)

nice reports and very very well written.

I second Paulsf. The managers have heard it all before. They are usually very very happy to upsell to a four hands massage and will want it to work out for you. I also don't think that a boy would be forced by the manager to participate if he really didn't want to, so ideally everyone should be satisfied one way or another.

There's a website aimed at straights - Friendlyhotelsguide.com or something like that -- that tries to answer which hotels have fees. File Swiss lodge the answer is as follows: (I cannot vouch for accuracy): Guest Friendly policy reply by the Swiss Lodge Hotel in Bangkok: “Warmest greeting from The Swiss Lodge! Thank you for interesting in our Hotel, May I inform you that, we do not charge for your guest, if they are not stay with you overnight, we only need to keep the ID card or passport at the Front Desk butIf your guest stay with you for overnight, we have to charge for THB 1,000. If you have any furthur question please feel free to contact us any time. Best regards, Ms. Jiraporn Buachan.” As always, best to just ask hotel directly. I stay near the Swiss lodge and the location is good. Some years ago it was popular on gay message boards.

Many of shops offer four hands massages. What you and the respective owners of the four hands should all be agreed to ahead of time. I can't imagine your request would be all that unusual. You might try the larger shops just because for some (many) of the guys, it may be a bit awkward. Maybe Arena, Hero, Adonis? Don't know about Prince. Presumably anything is possible on soi twilight (Bonny or Bangkok), but I do not know. Email or Line ahead and I bet V Club 7 could arrange anything.

If Tawan Bar has the really big body builder types, I think several of the soi twilight bars that try to have a smattering of all types might have a few guys that are on the muscular side of very fit like Hero. (Except Classic Boys or X-Size, of course). You could poke you head in to see, but that doesn't always work. Dreamboys has something for everyone, but I generally boycott it because of the prices. Or maybe go to Prince or V Club 7 and have a drink or two before selecting your massage guy from the men on parade.

+1

I've settled on Hornet. As has been mentioned before, in Bangkok most of the profiles are Not money boys just regular Thais looking for same.

Two years ago I stayed at one of the big western chain resorts with a Lao guy who was 19 or had recently turned 20. No problems whatsoever with the staff or other guests. I also know a Thai or two, and a couple of Vietnamese guys, who go there and freelance - so they don't seem to be too worried about legalities.

Will definitely try more local Bkk massage spots when I get back! Especially White House.

Here is how ONE of the beer bars on soi twilight works. (Obviously Bangkok specific and I make claims as to broader application). Boy has to work six days a week. Trips home or other time off is agreed to in advance with manager. If boy doesn't show up he has to pay bar fine 500. If boy was supposed to be there early to open up but does not he has to pay bar 150 if a boy just want to take a night off, he pays the bar fine himself. In my experience roughly similar rules apply at soi twilight go go bars,so boy/customer cannot game the system. of course romp in the hay scheduled before working hours or on day(s) off is irrelevant to bar - so no bar fine is payable Whatever small sums the bar pays the boy (including his commission on drinks) is paid in arrears, to give the bar some leverage. I have had situations where a short-time off turns into a longer situation where the boy has just paid the off fee himself out of the funds I have otherwise given him, resulting in a net average take home lower than it otherwise would be if he asked me to pay off fee. I like to think this has been because of true love (wink) but is really just an economic decision that asking explicitly for the bar fine spoils the "boyfriend experience " and he will or might come out ahead in the long run by maintaining the illusion. Of course had other situations where off fee has been mentioned explicitly, illusion be damned.