DivineMadman

The stated minimum tip at Arena is just for the basics: shower, massage and HJ. More than that, pay more.

The Thai Red Cross has an excellent clinic conveniently located near Ratchadamri BTS. Not really sure which test you are interested in but this link shows you their prices. http://en.trcarc.org/Homepage/?page_id=632

- yes you "apply for membership" at the reception but it's really not an application for membership for a tourist visit, just pick your masseur and schedule the appointment and pay a modest deposit (I forget how much). - I forget the tip. My guess is I would have given at least 1,500, probably 2,000 for all that time and effort.

memories (and trip reports) . . . priceless

Sorry guys. I'm sort of paper-less these days, so I only thought of it as an on-line viewing doc.

yes. I've tried that place once or maybe twice it was so disappointing I confess I've blocked it from my mind.

I don't think the go-go bars have Facebook or web or Line presences that would let you see guys (or the types of guys) at that particular bar. Tawan Bar is very popular on this board but it has a very specific type of guy not common at other go-go bars: a lot tend to participate in bodybuilder competitions and skew towards a tad bit more mature. (I believe they also tend to be predominantly straight and top only, with some exceptions.) The Soi Twilight go-go bars, along with nearby Jupiter and Screwboys, will often try to have a broad range of types, although at some bars there may be only one or two of a certain type. I am sure others will have a different view, but here are my overall thoughts: Dream Boys pitches itself as a premium product - big show, better-looking-than-average guys - at a premium price to the others. They tend to be very fit (but not body builders) guys mostly in their mid-20s. Personally not sure it's worth the higher price. Jupiter sort of the same, but it does seem to be a favorite for girl parties and a lot of board members report unsatisfactory experiences with the guys. Classic Boys definitely positions itself as the twinkler type bar. There may be some younger (18-19) guys. Most are early 20s. (Beware some of the most aggressive mamasans are here.) X-Size, Fresh Boys, X-Boys and Screwboys have a good range all types, mostly average trim guys, with X-Size being skewed a bit more towards twinks, and Fresh Boys perhaps a bit more of the defined swimmer's build types. Hot Male has more of the fit/defined type and only a limited selection of twinks. Ages generally in the 20's maybe a few pros in their early 30s.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QisqB0xNvnnrd1F7GOCWnwuHH1w9ldcRGsTgqG6nfuw/edit?usp=sharing Here is a link to an updated (and slightly simplified) chart of some of the more significant BKK massage shops. In the chart there is a link "Map" to a google map with their locations. Some I haven't been to yet, or haven't been to in a few years, so I don't have anything to report on. Others I may have only been to once and if I had a less than stellar experience I've just left it blank rather than base my opinion on one dud. There are, of course, many more M4M massage shops in Bangkok, but I've limited myself to the ones that are clearly massage-with-extras shops. Usually, but not always the pricing is pretty explicit - house fee and stated minimum tip. I've also limited the scope, for the most part, to shops that advertise one way or another to the farang crowd. Just as there are those who like Tawan Bar and those who don't, there are those who strongly prefer picking from a lineup and those who are ok with making a selection from pictures of who is available or on-call. I would encourage people to try both. For shorter term visits I understand the thrill of trying a broad a sample, and Bangkok is a wonderful buffet for these purposes, but the benefits of having a "regular" (or two or three or four) that you like and visit repeatedly really should not be underestimated.

As always, entertaining and much appreciated report.

More muscular guys with lineup: Arena, Prince & V Club 7. Arena has a pretty good selection of guys. Prince is skewed towards mid-to-late 20s not-massively muscular guys. May be more "model" good looking than almost-Tawan-Club types. V Club 7 lineup can be little hit or miss. Better to book ahead if there's a photo of a guy who fits your desires -- they are easy to work with through Line. Club 61 you can book ahead through photos and they have a couple older more musclebound guys, but I've never tried them.

Ari is a nice. I lived there a couple of years ago and really liked it. It has a good number of newer high rise buildings, and a big new building is going up now, which might hold prices down. It's a pretty diverse neighborhood - younger Thais, a good number of expats. Very family friendly. Some very good restaurants, coffee shops, sushi. More upscale, and laid back, than Saphan Kwai, which is the next stop out, but you do have all the chaotic fun of the Saphan Kwai neighborhood right there.

Congrats!

By so kindly suggesting that I continue to read you are raising the question - which is a fair one - as to whether the OP violated the personal information policy. Fair enough. The point I was making was to correct your statement that no such policy existed at all. Your post #46 states, in no uncertain terms, immediately following the quoted language about the basic policy: "This among other assertions do not exist or has ever existed anywhere in the polices of this Board." So I corrected that misstatement. Again, because I think it's a good rule to have and worth correcting any misimpression that no such policy exists at all. Peace.

I hate to weigh in on this conversation, but I clicked the link on the bottom of the page to "Message Center Policies" and it clearly includes the text " Personal information that can be used to identify a member, a user, or a go go boy or bar boy, whether or not a Gay Thailand member, shall not be permitted. No member shall publish or cause to be published such personal information." [The quoted text is a cut/paste] I only mention it because it seems a seems a good sort of rule to have.

- Tank tops uncommon except on foreign visitors. Note that the Royal Palace also forbids tank tops (in addition to shorts). But apart from temples wearing shorts is fine. - Holding hands is fine. More overt PDA's are frowned upon, regardless of orientation. - Maggie Choo's is fun, but some people find the staff off-putting. https://www.facebook.com/maggiechoos - If you want to try a restaurant to splurge on, you might consider La Table de Tee. 1,250 baht (approx $35) per person. http://www.latabledetee.com/index.php - Somtum Der is very good for Isaan food. It's right on Saladaaeng. They have a few things you might not be able to find on the street and no worries about sanitation. - A visit to any one of the many sky bars is hokey, and the drinks are expensive, but can be fun I think. Bangkok also has bunch of "secret" bars if you're into that. google "bangkok secret bars" - For the youngs, a visit to one of the Thai clubs would be a lot of fun and very highly recommended. I think Fake Club is currently the hot one. https://www.facebook.com/fakeclubthenextgen You might find this more fun than DJ Station. - You might want to pick a bar or possibly two on Soi Twilight and catch the show. People seem to flock to Dream Boys. It's the most expensive. Personally I don't think the show is that great. But many seem to like it. It seems to pack in the crowds. I like the show at Fresh Boys for energy and a good mix. The bars change up their shows a bit so it can be hit or miss. The last time I was at X-Boys I thought the show was a flop. The time before that it was very good. Go figure. A month or two ago there was full on fucking at Hot Male show. Don't know if they have had to stop that. Have fun

Have a fun and safe trip!

I use Line here in BKK and back in the States. Video chat/calls no problems. I was also pretty happy with the quality in Laos when just using hotel or restaurant wifi connections. There is a workaround for Android phones that lets you avoid losing your entire chat history when you change phone numbers (i.e., change sim cards), but I don't believe there is one for IOS, which is my #1 pet peeve as far as Line is concerned. Board member Paulsf clued me into Wechat, which has a very easy translation function so you don't have to copy and paste and I like the interface as well. I deleted WhatsApp when Facebook bought it, just because I don't want Facebook taking over everything.

- you might find that the guy giving you the sak yant uses needles (rather than bamboo), but still the old tap-tap method, which you might get a little more comfortable with regarding sterilization. I definitely wouldn't go with the old bamboo. The guy who gave me mine used metal, sterilized with a combination of some sort of sterilizing fluid and flame. Definitely worth finding out about before going forward. - You probably already know this, but for the people who take them seriously it's not really considered entirely "cool" to get one by a regular tattoo artist. Makes sense - it has religious/mystical significance for them. Every time a new Thai or Laos guy sees mine we invariably end up discussing it and he will say that it was good to get it from a monk (or holy lay person) and bad if it's just decoration. - A bottle of good black tattoo ink from America makes a relatively inexpensive very welcome gift for whoever is giving you your tattoo.

Point I was trying to make is that you may find opportunities to socialize with working boys without it being an off or having to pay.

For what it's worth, not every tattoo artist can give a true sak yant tattoo. There's a religious/mystical side to it and the final step involves a prayer and then blowing on the tattoo to infuse it with "power." I got one from one of the traditional mystic guys and it was a great experience. They are very careful to sterilize. I just asked around when talking to assorted bar boys and one took me out to a guy who's at the big tattoo temple about an hour outside bangkok. I suppose through google you could find the guy who gave angelina jolie hers, but I bet he's expensive. It hurt a lot. Great experience and best of luck.

By all means ask if you've found someone you like. The smaller the shop the more likely it will be a problem for them if the boy leaves, so the more likely they would be to charge you for the privilege. I think at most shops it won't be a problem, assuming of course that the boy/guy agrees. Some places, particularly those with lots of boys might not care at all. Pretty sure that one member in the past has reported on offing with no extra fee. I think most, however, charge an off fee under the theory that the guy might earn them another 1-2 hour massage fee that night. Others might say you have to pay the outcall rate, which typically includes the tip and then they will take their share. At some places this is insanely high - I think Senso asks for 5,000 (tip included). Other places start at a more reasonable 2.500 for outcalls. Unfortunately not everyplace has a publicized outcall rate. But again, these include the tips. Maybe it was just me, but at the now-closed Adonis and Fan Club standard operating procedure half the time seemed to be for the boy to try to turn it into an off. If you first ask the boy if he's interested you might be pleasantly surprised that he will tell you how to do it without involving the massage shop. exchange line info, meet later, whatever. I think at many of the larger shops, but probably not all, it's ok for the boy to leave and give the other guys a chance. If you want to walk arm in arm out of the massage shop, however, then his bosses might want some money.

My 2 baht worth: 1. Boy sits with you. The usual playful touching. You say you're buying him a drink or possibly 2. He typically gets 50 baht each drink and the mamasan is happy. Tip him 100 for his time and he's happy. If he sits with you a long long time, of course tip more and he's happier. 500 way too much. If he's sitting with you during the show as a practical matter that's his down time and I wouldn't worry about his opportunity cost of lost offs. 2. Drink set-ups. As you say, you see it in the bars a lot. I've seen it done by westerners. Don't know how much it costs but they'll be thrilled to set up a cart and bring in food. Was recently at Hot Male (with Paulsf) and one of these set ups was going on up front and the host had a wad of 100s conveniently stuffed right in the check bin, so could pull them out and tip dancers, singers, boys. X-Size has a bell you can ring to tip all the boys. Never seen it. Can't imagine how much it costs. Bet it's funny to see. 3. The no-sex off. Same as finding out what he does in bed. Just say what you have in mind (e.g., "go to DJ and then grab a bite") and ask the guy. He may say the same as his regular price because thats his rate and that's that or he may say something less. I think we customers sometimes think that it should be less because, well, sex is more work for him or is less pleasant. But he might not 'think too much" and instead he might have a basic I get paid for my time approach. So I certainly wouldn't expect him to agree to less than normal rate, but would not be surprised if he quotes a smaller number. Personally I wouldn't barter down the price, because that just seems tacky to me. Also a very good chance he just says, "Great, I'll see you there after work." Also, understand he may have time issues - a short-time off with a tediously boring farang like me and he he knows he can be home to his wife (or whatever) after a couple of hours max (more realistically 20 minutes ;)). A fun evening at DJ and then awesome street food at 3:00 in the morning is obviously a lot more TIME. All this assumes that you want the paid companionship or arm candy. During Songkran -- and then when you add on the circuit parties -- it's very easy to meet up and socialize with lots of guys, including the working guys. Talk to the guy and you might find that one evening he and his friends are going to RCA for a street party (or wherever) and you're welcome to go too. Those experiences can be great fun.

Getting caught up on Feb-March. The first part of February had a couple of massages (all previously reported), and some Hornet trysts. Very successful. The rest of February I visited Vietnam. As luck would have it one of the guys I met on Hornet was going back home to Ho Chi Minh City right before my trip started so I arranged to meet up with him there and then we did the trip together. This worked out perfectly for me. He is a super nice guy, I had a local guide-with-benefits and no need to try to arrange hookups along the way. We basically worked our way from South to North: Ho Chi Minh, Dalat, Na Trang, Hoi An, Hue and Hanoi. High points were Hoi An and the old quarter of Hanoi. Dalat was also nice but very cold in February. I bet it’s a relief to go there and enjoy the cooler climate when the rest of the country is a sauna. Hanoi old quarter has a very charming low key gay bar (“GC” or “Golden Cock”). I think it is reported to be the oldest gay bar in Vietnam. I didn’t partake, but Hornet reported several money/massage buys in Ho Chi Minh, Danang and Hanoi. I will say the best part of the trip was the 25 year old guy I brought with me. He was pleasant and enthusiastic, good massages, and very very frugal. We had agreed to a daily rate, but by the end he said he no longer wanted money. In a pleasant contrast to some Thai and Laos guys I’ve known, he never ever once said “you buy me this” or “I want…”. Occasionally out of habit if i saw him eyeing a pair of shoes I would offer to buy them and he would refuse. Really super guy, who, like most of these guys, sent almost all of his money back home. (The “relationship” has continued a bit in BKK, with him saying the money boy equivalent of “I love you” — “With you I go for free.” Unfortunately for a couple of reasons, including my return soon the U.S. and his to Vietnam, it’s not destined to be anything serious, at least on my part.) BTW - Never got a blink or a negative hint from anyone or any hotel when we were traveling together in Vietnam. A couple of times there would be two biggish beds instead of one huge bed and my guy would sort of half in jest make a loud complaint about it and whoever happened to be showing us to our room would have a good laugh, so, at least where I was staying, no problems with gay travel. I’ve spent the last 5 days in Luang Prabang which is as lovely as everyone says it is. Hornet has a smattering of guys and Grindr has a couple. Both apps are funny because usually there’ll be a 4-5 guys nearby on Grindr, 10-12 on Hornet, including foreigners, and then the nearest guys are 120 miles away. Again, as everyone says, Luang Prabang does not really have a gay scene. If I come back I’ll definitely bring a guy with me. I happen to know several many boys back in Bangkok who grew up and have family here in Luang Prabang and I bet would love a trip back home. Back to BKK

Near Silom the Prince Massage is very nice and has a good selection of 20s-30s very handsome muscular guys. You can see the general type on their website www.theprincebkk.com. Hero has a very large selection of guys with many very built guys. Not quite as upscale. BTS Nana and then walk if you don't mind the heat, otherwise mocy. Pictures not available. V Club 7 has a large selection of fit handsome guys on call, and usually there are a good number of guys at the shop. Massage skills are generally sub-par, so go for the extras. www.vclub7.net Can get daily pics of who is on call from Line ID trinvclub7

I think you are right that the owner / manager speaks English fluently. Perhaps this event occurred when he wasn't there. In my own interactions with the owner/manager I can not imagine him condoning theft, so my guess (and it's only a guess) that this unfortunate event happened when he was not there and someone else was "managing".