DivineMadman

I don't know for certain, but my guess is that AOT can do math. My guess is that they and the Thai government are making economic decisions weighing the costs expansion, including at BKK and other airports throughout Thailand, and the marginal gains and losses of having to use a bus occasionally. When airlines have a say, they usually urge caution on major expansions because they worry they will end having to pay higher fees. If I were advising them, I would certainly advise them to risk losing some marginal customers who might boycott BKK as a result of the occasional use of buses. Right now I think they have better uses for their funds. But that's just one approach. Another approach would be to say massive public works can have major benefits for the overall economy so go ahead and implement the 120 million passenger plan, which I believe involves building a mirror image terminal and mid-field concourse on the opposite side. And clearly the opportunities for graft would be enormous. This would be the "if you build it, they will come" model. I try not to be too insulting of my Thai hosts and think maybe they are being rational.

The Scottish company Skyscanner, now owned by a Chinese company, so likely not a front for the evil Americans, reports as follows for Hong Kong: But as was wisely noted above, just because it's on the internet doesn't mean its true.

I don't know that we'll ever be able to agree that tipping is somehow an American religion being spread around the world. I certainly remember having to make note of whether ​servis compris when I was young and traveling in Europe. Also, India. Tipping is a part of the fabric of life there by, for and among the locals. ("baksheesh") I don't think you can blame that on the American hegemony. So, just saying.

"glad" hehe

A great report. But, just for general benefit of the discussion, for some reason, and it's not because I pay more -- I don't -- or anything else, I have had lots of luck with VN guys being quite enthusiastic on the oral and bottoming side of things. So no one should give up hope. I am sure it is just my rigorous selection process

LOLs

I would think so. I don't know and haven't ever been sober enough to ask. I reported the "lore" that if you hand the tip outside the folder it goes direct to the waiter - maybe because I read it in BangkokBois as ggobkk mentioned, for all I know, but I think someone else has mentioned it to me as well. I just leave the change in the folder and never had any complaints. Others hand the ฿ directly and I am sure no complaints there either. sabai-sabai.

Just as an FYI - One potential problem with pooled tips is that in addition to back bar and kitchen help sometimes the manager or boss thinks he can take a share as well. So direct handing of tips isn't a problem.

yes. I think we're just trying to focus on the gay bars/gogos/restaurants and the situation there right now. (Not that tipping is a particularly new phenomenon on Soi Twilight or Soi 4.) I think we all want the waters to get paid decently well, because we want the bars to be able to hire better-than-average looking guys, who are ok with that environment, with personality, and nice bodies that they are generous with. So it's great if people who can tip appropriately do. I think most waiters would probably agree they are in it for the tips, not the minimum wage. We want the bars to stay open and continue to hire good looking, fun, flirty waiters and staff. I can't really imagine a farang telling a waiter at Fresh Boys (for example): "I am not going to tip you because if I did tip you it wouldn't be authentically asian." But if you gets you through the night, ok. Just try to have to fun. It's supposed to be a fun experience.

I always research tipping practices in a country before visiting. Certainly in Bangkok city center and the touristic parts of town tipping has become customary. But worth noting that each year it does seem that more and more places are adding a 10% service charge, so beware. Paulsf clued me into getting coins for laundry from the BTS, but some stations do have limits on the how many they will give at a time. Earlier this year there was a bit of a shortage of 10 baht coins. Don't know if that's still the case or not.

The reason/argument that I gave you I thought was fairly straightforward. You might disagree with it. But to say I haven't even attempted to explain it seems, well, rather disingenuous. Usually the weaker the argument the more silly bluster like that. As I alluded too way back, I would have much more respect for someone who just says, "I'm on a budget, the places are a bit more expensive than I could otherwise afford to visit as often as I would like, so if I can save some money not tipping I do so, and maybe even feel bad about it, and thank goodness there are people out there like paborn to make up for it." I would have a lot more respect. To repeat, the reason that I gave was that there is no expectation of tipping in the case of flight attendants & the girls at 7-11. Indeed the association of flight attendants is very much opposed to the idea. (Remember, I pointed that out before.) Tips aren't priced into them taking their job, or management setting their compensation levels, or part of their union negotiations, and certainly some airlines have explicit rules prohibiting tips. Flight attendants don't view themselves merely as waiters. They are air safety officers and much more. Have you never dated a flight attendant??? Workers at 7-11 take their job not expecting tips -- but will you make them smile a bit if you give them something? Of course. Waiters at, say Maxi's, have a different arrangement. The opportunity for tips is part of their overall compensation package. Now, they know full well that some people will tip well and some won't. But overall, tips are part of their compensation arrangement. They know that they may have to flirt and perhaps be groped now and then, which wouldn't happen at some other places, but know they make good tips so they work and work hard. Flight attendants don't expect tips (or, according to their trade group, want tips). Now you can latch on this and say, ahhhh, waiters know that some people won't tip and I want to be one of those people. That can be you. But that doesn't change the difference between the flight attendant (tips not part of the compensation arrangement) and the waiter (tips are a part of the compensation). This sort of a difference -- situations where tips are part of the compensation arrangement or when they very much are not -- is well recognized and even part of the law in the U.S., and I expect anywhere else where tipping is common -- In the U.S. laws regarding minimum wages always have exception for industries where part of the compensation is tips (such as nicer restaurants). [To avoid getting distracted here - I'm not trying to say tipping in Thailand is the same as in the U.S., I am just pointing out that the difference between the tipping-is-a-part-of-the-deal situation (waiter) vs. no-tip (flight attendant) is not something unusual or too subtle or that I just made up. It's actually a fairly straightforward legitimate distinction. So you can't just continue stomping your feet and saying I haven't even tried to make an argument.] This is what we call "a difference." Or if it helps, a distinction that makes a difference. A waiter at a Thai local spot out in country will invariably have a different expectation, and I'm not saying the tipping expectation is true there. We're just talking about the gay tourism spots that offer the drinks that you find so expensive -- and yet are somehow compelled to buy. This is all just a re-hash of the the same point/argument I made before. Seems a shame you chose to ignore it and then say I didn't even try to explain. I do see that you do say that I gave you no "logical" argument, so if want the logical explanation, here you go. Consider it a gift. Or if you like, a tip. You are saying (1) the flight attendant brings me drinks/no tip, (2) the waiter at Maxi's brings me drinks; therefore (3) the waiter at Maxi's/no tip. This is what we call "false." It has the identical logical flaw as the following that you might remember from school days: (1) Elephants are a mammals, (2) Socrates is a mammal; therefore (3) Socrates is an elephant. False. You're making the same logical error. The truth is, I don't care if you or anyone else tips. If not tipping brings you joy, ok. Be happy. But, if I present an argument then don't just try to shout it down by saying "you didn't even try". I did try. I actually think I have the better argument. If you would like to convince me, feel free, but you would have to do more than just say you can't tell the difference between waiters and flight attendants based on the one common characteristic that they bring a beverage. You have to explain why the distinction that I made between the two is either false or irrelevant. And just to be clear, your argument would have to hold true using the example I just gave on when the law for minimum wages recognizes the difference between tipping and non-tipping businesses, because it's the same point. Endlessly repeated. And of course, if you really can't tell the difference, then perhaps spread the joy a little bit more and go ahead and tip the girl or guy at 7-11. Tip the flight attendant if you can (or, follow reader's advice and give them a box of cookies). That also solves your problem. All this could have been avoided had you not so felt the need to say I didn't even attempt to explain.

Another thought for another trip (you have enough on your schedule for this trip), but why not try a ladyboy sometime? Best of both worlds??? As I understand it, right now the best cluster of ladyboy bars in Bangkok is Nana Plaza, but that's probably a very subjective statement.

A great fun trip you have planned. On the tantric massage, 3 hours makes me think perhaps you got the wonderful scrub + tantric + "regular" massage. It's quite an experience. I don't name names, but I think in general the guys there are all good, so no comment as to the masseur. My particular favorite there works great for me, but everyone is different and you may not like him as much then I would regret recommending him. When I've done the tantric package the masseurs have switched out so that one masseur does the scrub and the regular massage, but another masseur does the tantric part. Personally I like this very much. I think this gives the main masseur, and me, a nice break and adds to the mystery. I don't know if that is what they have planned for you. My one bit of advice on the tantric part is to accept it on its own terms and don't climax. Also don't get hand-sy with the masseur during that part. (Some people do - and you know who you are!). Relax and just experience it. Don't worry, you will have an opportunity for the whole thing to end happily during the final "regular" massage. I'm jealous.

I appreciate my lack of clarity i the topic. I was thinking only of the small size of the proposed new Terminal 2. I meant I would be thrilled if Cathay moved to the new Terminal 2 at BKK. And yes I believe you are 100% correct that Cathay's new home at JFK is Terminal 8.

I thought it was customary in the "local" places to leave the small coins change, if any. That's what I do "up country" and at my local street places. When I've gone to Fake Club or old App Arena, I am pretty sure we tipped the waiter, how much I would have deferred to my local friends -- and at the end of those escapades I'm certainly too drunk to remember.

Well, first of all to knock off the suggestion that airline flight attendants bring you food therefore they are the same, so gee, shouldn't you tip them, and if you're not tipping them, well, oh my, aren't you being ridiculously inconsistent. No. They're not the same. It's not a huge mental stretch to see differences. It's really not a stretch at all. Among other things, there is no expectation of tipping, which is why everyone says it's silly (and probably a satirical bit of chain-yanking in the first place). Conde Nast Traveler reports that the Association of Flight Attendants (AFA) is quite opposed to tipping. Any self-respecting flight attendant will tell you that they view their job as much more than food service. Similarly, it's within all our mental capacities to realize that customers don't tip at 7-11. And it seems weak, in every sense of the word, to try to argue that because we don't tip at 7-11 we shouldn't tip at a gogo bar or beer bar. So now we're in Bangkok at the gay bars and the gay restaurants and the gay gogo bars, where tipping is customary. If someone is suggesting that tipping is not customary at those establishments, all I can I say is that I believe you are mistaken. And that's not the premise of Christian's logic, which was refreshingly explicit (`1) yes, the waiter deserves more, and (2) I know he's currently not getting it, but (3) I have paid so much for my drink I don't want to pay the waiter anything more, and (4) but the boss should. (Even though I know at this time the boss isn't.) So the person getting the short end is the waiter is undeniably the waiter. And, as I pointed out, not tipping is not doing anything to change the situation. It's not standing on principle. The sole focus is how much "I" paid for the drink and "my" subjective conclusion that it is so high that "I" am freed from any obligation - customary at that bar - to tip. Now of course if the boss raised the drink prices and paid the waiter more, that would lead to a chorus of complaints I am sure. So really, the argument is, the drink is so expensive the bar should just make less profit. Even though I have no clue of the profits. And that's why it's ok for me to stiff the waiter, even though other customers are tipping. Finally, at the places where the drinks are the most expensive, with the 400 baht drinks that z909 thinks is so outrageous that not tipping is apparently justified (!!!) - the point has been made so many times in the past, including by the great but sadly departed author of the BangkokBois website (RIP), that 400 for the drink is for more than the drink. It's the cover charge for the show. It's the opportunity to sit and flirt with young hotties in their underwear. It's for operating a brothel. So you pay more. A lot more. That's not a hard concept to grasp. The waiter is not just bringing you a 400 baht drink. He's bringing you 200 baht drink and you're paying a 200 cover charge/show fee/brothel fee. What - you want to see the show, grope a bit, stare at the line up of guys all for free??? That's nonsense. Stay outside in the beer bars where the drinks are cheaper -- and I certainly hope you tip the guys out there.

In NYC and my little part of New England I tip 15% minimum and 20% for good or particularly good-looking service. Sometimes I'll fudge the math by tipping on the tax, but only for exceptional service or exceptional good looks. I remember when we weren't expected to tip on wine or the alcohol. Alas, at least in my area that has gone by the wayside.

LOLs To borrow slightly from Wallis Simpson, you can never over-tip or be too thin. It's your money so nothing wrong with acts of generosity and kindness. Some people worry that it moves the market or expectations, but I think that's not true. (I think that particular concern might be driven more by anxiety.) I think the guys just have lucky days with extra tips and regular days and "sabai-sabai". There are famously Thai temples where the murals show modern influences. If I were designing such a mural I would have them use a couple of the worst mamasans as models for hell-demons.

I'm more in this camp. I don't have a hard rule about 20 baht per drink, but I think that's probably closer to my typical drink tip. At a nicer non-gay bar, probably a bit more. At a beer bar I usually end up buying a drink for the guy(s) I'm chatting with, and probably give a 100-200 baht for someone who has been chatting with me for an hour with the usual shoulder or arm massages and casual harmless flirting. (This in addition to buying them a drink, on which they receive a commission.) At a gogo bar I have farang friends who are friends with the waiters, which is great, but for whatever the reason I tend to be friends with the guys on display rather than the waiters, so I tend to tip the waiters by rounding up to the nearest 100 but not less than 20 per drink for an hour or two of attentiveness during which I've probably had 2-3 drinks. The gogo gods who sit with with me, or come by and chat for more than 5 minutes, or are best friends with my man-of-the-moment, get a minimum tip 100 and for ones that I'm friendly with or done something outside of work with, I always also buy drink. At a nicer restaurant I probably tip minimum 10%, rounded up to the nearest 100 depending how fond I am of the waiter. I know some people prefer to hand the tip directly to the waiter on the outside of the bill folder with the custom that that's a tip for the individual and doesn't have to go into the tipping pool. Personally I don't do that. Tip goes into the pool. So far it hasn't hurt my reputation with the waiters. As to Christian's statement. I hope it's just to get a rise out of people, otherwise it's one of the most sad things I've ever read on this forum. Withholding the tip because you think the manager should pay the waiter more is of course just a nonsense cover for not wanting to part with the money. You're not confronting the manager and telling him to pay the waiter more. The conduct does nothing to change the situation. It takes advantage of it. Seems rather shameful to me. I'ld have much much more respect for someone who says, "I really have to watch every baht, but I want to live a lifestyle that lets me buy drinks for myself at these bars, so to stretch my money I don't tip, and frankly I don't care enough about the waiter to part with the money."

yes, happily there is an automated people mover underground planned to connect the mid-field concourse extension to the main terminal. There is also planned to be some sort of automated people mover between the new terminal and "Terminal 1", Reports I read said it would also allow passengers to connect to the Airport Rail Link (or some such ambiguous wording), so I don't know if the plan is to extend the Airport Rail Link to Terminal 2 or have a separate people mover between the two terminals. I am betting against an extension of the ARL. Particularly in tough budgetary times, public works would probably be like condoms, permit reasonable anticipated growth plans but still a bit tight. Hence, I think, the modest size of the new terminal (which from a planning perspective has to be viewed along with expansion of U-Tapao and DMK). Not that JFK should be considered a model of anything - except perhaps what not to do - a quick look suggests that at JFK Terminal 1 has 11 gates & Terminal 7 has 12 (by way of comparison). So with luck perhaps some carriers or groups of carriers will make it work. I'll be thrilled if Cathay moves there.

the mid-field concourse in the photo is not considered a separate "terminal." It's just an extension of the current beloved Swampy. Lots and lots of airports have a similar midfield concourse. (HKG, ICN, etc.) The video and the other photos are for the new terminal - Terminal 2, with its own check-in lanes, immigration, etc. It is I believe the only new "terminal" planned.

In the unlikely event that it helps people un-bind their nickers, here is a concept photo of the mid-field concourse that I mentioned above, that is already under construction. This is supposed to help get the airport to 60 million capacity. Terminal 2 is intended to take capacity to 85 million. A relatively modest increase. It needs a long "front side" with roads for pick up and drop off, because in addition to adding gates it is also - and just as importantly - adding check-in lanes and all that jazz. I think that it's probably placed where it is and designed the way it is to make as efficient use as possible of the existing infrastructure. But what do I know. Not much.

Just to flog this particular horse once more, note that a new "mid-field" concourse is currently being built that connects to the existing terminal by an under-the-tarmac people mover.

I think it may be a bit premature to ding them for a lack of people movers based on the concept video that they used in the competition. Or hypothetical guesses on whether we'll be stuck using buses in the future, for that matter. I expect it will have all the usual conveniences. I also expect, somewhat optimistically, that this time they will get the number of bathrooms right the first time, and avoid all the retro-fitting that spoiled the opening of dear Swampy. As we all know, currently Suvarnabhumi ("Terminal 1") sits atop the cross-bar of an "H", with the runways the uprights on either side. The site for the new terminal is along the inside right side of that "H". I think this dictates that the terminal can only have gates on one side. The alternative would be either moving one of the runways or putting the new terminal at some distance from Terminal 1, which, even if practical, would no doubt raise all sorts of other complaints. The design is quite controversial - for two reasons. First of all, it actually didn't win the competition. The first winner was subsequently disqualified for failure to provide some required part of the proposal. (I can't recall what.) On top of that, there are a bunch of people complaining that the design is too Japanese and/or derivative of the work of a Japanese architect. It's wood cladding over steel and concrete. I saw another report that said 30 months, which gets us to 2021 at the earliest Personally, I like the design, but I fall into the camp that says it doesn't seem to fit with Bangkok or interact in any reasonable way with Terminal 1. Somewhere in the mountains or Bhutan/Sikkim seems a more natural fit for me.

A few photos