DivineMadman

Richard Barrow has set up a page on his website to keep up on coronation news. His take is that, as far as the tourist stuff is concerned, it will be more "business as usual" than not. Except of course around the Grand Palace. Coronation News

The facilities are sort of what you would expect - a bit shabby run down. The clients aren't just men, so you see all ages & all types: men women trans old young. I don't have any doubts at all about the level of training or standards there (high). But it is not at all luxe or fancy. Whether you and or your guy would feel better or worse about that I don't know. You do sign up and get a Wellness card or number at the Red Cross center. I can't remember what if any personal details you give. Truth is I don't know for 100% sure about the anonymity issues or how they safeguard data. I would take comfort from the word "Anonymous" being right in the name of the clinic. I do think they do follow the most up to date enlightened international standards, which I think should include assurances of anonymity, but I don't know for sure. Not to say anything bad about Pulse at all. I've never been but the place looks very nice and it's good to support gay-owned businesses. Pulse did a fantastic commercial not too long ago. (You might want to turn down the volume before watching the video.). Pulse Commercial

Thai Red Cross is great. Website. Not too far from Rajadamri BTS. I've gone there with guys I've been hooking up over the years. I never got any bad feedback from guys when I've discussed it, but no doubt everyone is different. When I've gone with a guy friend, I get tested at the same time and we've received results together. It's a good organization doing god's work, same day service, for all walks of life. You go (ideally in the morning), sign in, wait for a bit for your number to get called, get tested, then they'll tell you to come back in an hour or two to get the results. Show up, wait for your number to get called and you get the results. There are also for-profit clinics such as Pulse, but it might not be in your guy's regular budget. Thai Red Cross is also good at providing overall counseling and advice on PrEP, which he can also get there. If you (and the counselors at Red Cross) can get him on PrEP then he has to get re-tested every three months as part of that program, so could solve that issue for you as well. Maybe you want to get on PrEP. Up to you. If he's a sex worker, there is an excellent organization called SWING in Pattaya and Bangkok that provides testing and counseling and support, I believe for free.

A troll is just looking for attention, so "vote down" buttons are still just a form of "feeding the troll." Ignoring really is the only way.

+1 for Tailor on Ten (which confusingly is now on Soi Sukhumwit 8).

map There are two reports on travelgayasia that Banana Club has stopped offering special services. I wasn't a particular fan of the place, so I haven't ventured to confirm. If someone does go and finds that the reports are correct, but wants more than a legit massage, Urban Male is just down the street. A smaller shop, smaller selection of guys, a bit pricier, a bit nicer. I usually have a very good time there. Or Nine Massage is a 10-15 minute walk. (Book ahead pretty much required at Nine.)

I'll confess I'm a bit unclear if this is an attempt to back-track on the previous "Drinks are expensive I won't tip" argument or not. But anyway, if you want to re-open it, fine with me. First - No one has ever said that you must apply US tipping practices in Thailand, Europe or anywhere else. Continuing to stomp metaphorical feet and keep saying that is just a bit of clumsy mis-direction. The issue has always been clear - tipping at the gay bars, restaurants & gogo bars on Soi Twilight and Soi 4 in Bangkok (and similar spots in Pattaya). And at those places tipping has been customary for many, many, many years. When you're having a drink at Banaba Bar or at Balcony Bar or at Fresh Boys, for example: look to the right of you, look to the left of you, those other customers -- they are tipping. There are also many places in the world outside the US where it is customary and expected to tip. And you know that. The local custom in the little micro-universe at issue here is Soi Twilight and Soi 4, etc., is that tipping is customary and that's how they get the cute flirty guys who are ok with a gay environment to work there. In "economic" speak, non-tippers are just free-riding on the rest of us. People who are pointing out that tipping is customary on Soi 4, are not saying you must follow tipping US tipping practices. I have to believe that you know and understand this, so why you continue to make the "straw man" argument seems baffling and, well, weak. Second - No one has ever even hinted in this discussion that the issue is you should give a tip a mamasan who is only a pest and provides no service. So now trying to hide behind that example of tipping the pesky mamasan as somehow justifying not tipping waiters can't really make you feel better about yourself, can it? The discussion has ALWAYS been about tipping the waiter who brings you a drink or your food. (Personally, if the mamasan provides some service to me I do tip, but that's because I use the services of the mamasan to help select a guy. If I don't then I don't tip.) When you have to hide behind a mamasan is when I think you should just let the issue go. In a location where tipping is customary, whether you do so or not is between you and your own personal moral compass. You don't want to leave spare coins for the maid? No one can force you to do that. If the jingle of those coins makes you feel better, well, so be it. If is important to you to go to gogo bars and see a parade of young men in their underwear and pay 400 baht combination cover charge/drink charge, and you don't want to tip the waiter 20 baht, that's up to you. After 20 drinks, you've saved yourself enough to buy yourself one whole drink. If that drink tastes extra special because it's paid for by not tipping that kid from the developing world who smiled and brought you those 20 other drinks, all the better. I know from personal experience that tipping is not customary in Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia and I believe it is not customary in Pyongyang, North Korea. Mongolia is gorgeous and I bet North Korea would be fascinating. Perhaps consider going there, where you would not be confronted with the horrible tipping practice??

Do keep up the reports. I know that they take a lot of effort to write, and all the detail. I know we're all so glad to read them. Fun!

thanks for setting all this out so clearly. very informative.

I haven't been there. I am all for gender fluidity, and I am sure you can take it from the ad in Thai Puan that they are ok with gay, but it may not be 100% men there. So like Art massage or pretty much any other massage place in Thailand, I'm sure there's fun to be had, but it might not be a given. https://www.facebook.com/hanuman.patpong/videos/313999646010745/

Delightful update and happy news indeed. Inle Lake will be a lovely spot for a honeymoon.

Outstanding report! A minor suggestion, perhaps "Bangkok Guy" should be called "Lucky Guy." You seem a very thoughtful considerate person towards him. (for Thais "สุภาพ" "su-paap") If perhaps you're still in BKK I just read a positive review of a dim sum special at Landmark Hotel Sept-Oct. (might possibly be lunch only, I can't remember)

I certainly agree that people should feel free to go only to places where they feel safe and welcome, but I enjoyed my visit to Malaysia. Maybe extra discretion is required -- or just no sex tourism there -- just the food and the sights. But if you otherwise want to go to see a country, I think there are some positive benefits from engagement/normalization when Western/non-muslims visit these countries. And Bali is of course it's own beautiful place where I think gays are not at risk, and there's a lot of fun to be had, so no reason to steer clear from Bali. But I also 100% agree that if people want to boycott a country then they can and should. I'm currently struggling with whether it's appropriate to go back to Myanmar.

Great report!

Here's what I do (and if I say something obvious I'm not trying to be condescending, just trying to be complete): Door-to-Door. As you note, yes, pay airfare. Personally I wouldn't worry about the taxi or anything more "door-to-door". [bTW - I would never give the money to the lucky guy to buy the ticket. I buy the ticket for my companion so it can't be turned in for cash. You do have to be careful that he doesn't need to present the credit card at check-in if you're not going to be with him. I think Air Asia easily accommodates buying a ticket for a third party at the time of purchase. Otherwise a travel agent can easily arrange it.] Off-fee. Yes you are responsible for the off fee, but I would still make sure to ask him. In my experience the guys love the idea of saving a favored customer some money, so if they have time-off available maybe, just maybe, they might be able to take time off from the bar and not have to pay the off-fee (or in their case, the "not showing up for work" fee). But as things are ramping up to high season don't count on it. Daily Fee. Here's where others may have different experiences. I don't particularly do regular "long-times," so for a guy I would be traveling with there's just the usual 2,000 per off. [Obviously BKK prices] When I make my proposal to the guy, I just take that 2,000 number and multiply it by the total number of days (counting travel days) and tell them that big total number I will pay. 4 day total trip I would just say I will pay 8,000 (plus money for bar fine). I've never had anyone counter back saying, no it should be long-term blah blah blah. I can absolutely understand a guy who would say, "no you should pay me for long-term." But so far it has never happened to me. Of course he will be happier if you offer him long-term rate, particularly if that 's the regular number you pay him. I don't have a history with a guy of paying that so I think they're just used to the usual amount I pay. I know that there are customers who say you shouldn't pay the full amount because the guy might not get off'd every day, etc." If saving that money is essential to you, then bargain away. It might have negative effect, it might not. (Of course, if he's any good he might get off'd those days, and there's clearly an opportunity cost for him.) For me I would never consider asking someone to take less than short-term rate for 24 hours of service as a travel companion. But I am lucky, so far guys have been very happy to travel with me. Food and Beverages; Incidentals. Yes you are responsible for food and drinks. But very very very often the guy I have been with has bought the occasional beverage or snack for us both, or paid taxi fare (sometimes with spending money I've given him - but also even if I haven't given spending money). Tourist fees such as museum or park admission fees, rides, etc., all the customer's responsibility. Shopping. I don't do "shopping" for the guys I'm with (but sometimes I give them some extra spending money, elaborated on below). To be honest there was one exception to the no-shopping rule. I was traveling with someone for a couple of week in VN and 3/4 of the way through his family was constantly pestering him and he had to send every Dong home to pay for his brother's school fees. I could tell he was a little crest-fallen as he transferred the money -- all that time with a customer and no money to show for it -- so I took him shopping to buy sneakers and jeans. And he was truly grateful and has remained grateful to this day. But that's the exception. Because of the rumor mill that some customers like to buy the guys stuff, I let anyone I am with know very clearly that I don't do shopping, and I've never had a problem with it. But if you want to take your guy shopping, by all means do! Pocket Money. I don't do shopping but on a longer trip I give my companion a little money in the local currency and tell him it's so he can buy something for himself or pay for drinks or dinner sometime. More than once the guys have returned the money to me at the end of the trip. SIM Card. I get a local SIM for myself and I also get one for my companion, so he can stay in touch with friends and family and post those prized pictures on Facebook. For him, just internet/no calling. I think giving him the SIM card is essential. General Considerations. This not financial, which is what you are asking about, so feel free to skip! Make clear your expectations on sex. If you have the stamina of Numazu, ggobkk or Vinapu, then you should let the guy know ahead of time it's sex a few times a day. I'm more of a once-a-day guy, with the occasional rest day, so not so much an issue. Communication is really your responsibility. (Of course we could say your companion is an equal partner and equally responsible, but the truth is, he's not.) I always build in a little "alone time" every day. Truth is I do this for myself, but all that togetherness might be difficult for him too. I've travelled with guys who in their ordinary lives just don't go to sleep until 5-6:00 am regardless of whether they got home at 1:30 am or not. I let them know they will be on "my" schedule, so we can do the touristy stuff, but I've come to accept and accommodate that they are suffering the equivalent of jet lag. So late breakfasts. Always an opportunity for them to get a real nap, not just "afternoon delight" for me. With any luck your guy won't be like this, but I seem to attract the later nighters even though I'm a morning person. Your guy might have lots of experience traveling, and he might not. I always try to be a bit sensitive to the idea that things I take for granted he might not know, so I usually try to lead by example. I've done several trips with guys where it's been their first time and there's a lot for them to absorb. When guys travel with me there is always a lot of exploration, sightseeing, touristy stuff, even walking around. Of course this makes them absolutely miserable. One day out in the sun will darken their skin and it will take them many weeks and much toxic skin creams to get them back to the light skin they need for work. I try to be sensitive to this. I always bring good strong sunscreen, the good kind that doesn't cause acne. Or I give my travel umbrella to my companion to use as a parasol. At an historic site I may give them the chance to sit in the shade while I keep exploring -- of course only after I've taken pictures of them that they can post on Facebook to show their friends... As much as I may like their skin darker, for them it's about business and their own sense of vanity, both of which I respect. Dining almost always turns out to be the most stressful part of every day every trip, and over the years I've learned to make much more of an effort to find places to eat where my companion can be happy. This can mean finding a Thai restaurant in Ubud, Bali (for example), or just making sure the menu has pictures. (Of course if my companion is from the particular country I'm visiting this is a bit easier, but still I wouldn't insist on going to restaurants that only serve food that I am used to if my companion isn't used to it as well.) I might crave a bagel or pastry for breakfast in Vientiane, but that's not "breakfast" for my companion, and I understand that. Every day eating only farang food will make him unhappy. This also of course means being attentive enough to understand that my companion may say "up to you" when he means "I really want food I'm used to [or whatever], but you're the boss."

It could be given name, real nickname or many guys also have a stage name (as it were). Makes sense that the stage names are shorter and easier. I have a friend who switched over to a stage name a couple of years ago, but spells out the stage name only in Thai script on his Hornet profile. There's a scene early on in the Thai movie "P", where a young women comes to Bangkok to work at a Patpong gogo bar and the mamasan tells the girl that the customers won't be able to pronounce her name and gives her an easier name for customers to use.

My point was that if someone thinks not tipping is either not customary at these bars/restaurants or that not tipping is conduct wrapped in a nifty bundle of integrity, then he or she would not have any problem telling the waiter that to his face. So if someone is proud of it, why not tell the waiter that? The " no announcement" approach is of course easier. That's actually the point.

In Bangkok, pretty sure there's a shop on the corner of Suan Plu soi 6. Can't comment on what brands or prices. Don't know if you've already tried, but the food market downstairs at Siam Paragon tries to carry a little bit of everything. And there's this place, which I've never tried, so can't say good/bad. https://www.musclefoodshop.com/en/ I'll leave it to others to make the well-deserved "protein drink" double entendres.

I wasn't suggesting that the major or flag carriers overnight. But some airlines do. And the airport probably serves some of those as well. Maybe the charter types from the big country up north that provides so sends so many passengers to BKK and DMK. Others? (Admittedly not you or me.)

Once again, the places we have been talking in Thailand do tip. I didn't think there was anyone who denied that in the touristy party of Bangkok (etc.), gay or straight, tipping has become customary. But do tell the waiter at Maxi's or Balcony Bar, "I'm not going to tip you because I know it's not customary here." If you're comfortable leaving without a tip, presumably you would also be comfortable telling the waiter that to his face, no?

Reader is the expert on that i hope he answers

I think you're saying that as an economic/business matter you would make the investment, whatever that may be, to avoid bus gates. (And I'm not actually saying you would literally say, "expense be damned at whatever cost." I assume you are saying to do so within reason.) That's fine. I respect that decision. But there are lots of competing needs for infra-structure money right now, which is why I'm trying to say that even if we might disagree with AOT's sluggish expansion plans, I don't think they should be simply dismissed, or unable to do math. I haven't seen a break down of the costs of building the current terminal vs. building Suvarnabhumi overall, but going ahead and building a new "mirror" massive terminal on the other side of the airfield would cost many billions USD. (I can't even do the math on how many Baht that would be.) And, I would note that airlines are often very much involved in these airport expansion decisions, so they are making business decisions on their own, and it would not surprise me at all to learn that airlines are telling AOT to be conservative on expansion plans, because they would rather minimize increased landing fees. I'm not a fan of it, but that does seem to be the mantra of the airline industry these days - less convenience for the passenger will be tolerated if it can keep costs down. Another factoid to keep in mind is that some airlines are perfectly happy to pay the lower charges they pay using a bus gate than they would have to pay at a bridge. Put another way, the inconvenience of the Thai Smile flight (for example) using a bus gate is probably factored into the ticket price. Also, something I hadn't thought of until I saw it being discussed somewhere else: some airlines prefer the tarmac and bus gate if they overnighting the plane because it so much cheaper. Again, it's a cost saving measure for the airline. I will confess, the buses don't particularly bother me.

I think of it as the part that has the Grand Palace and Was Pho, etc. Also called Rattanakosin Island because it's bordered by the river and canals. Where we draw the line between Chinatown and Old Town I do not know. I also sometimes see places on the river closer to Chinatown and Wat Pathum Khongkha (opposite Lhong 1919) as being in Old Town. Don't know if that's just marketing or not.

I'm always on the hunt for good food around Bangkok. A contributor to the Bangkok Foodies group has put together this excellent list as a parting gift before she leaves town. https://peaktan.com/bangkok-eats-by-area/ (I should note that it's not an exhaustive list. Maybe members can add their favorites to this thread if they want.)

Arena is 100% transparent that the basic massage charges -- 590(?) for 1 hr oil and minimum "tip" 700/hr 1,000 1.5hr -- only includes hand job/shower & massage. In my experience the masseur is naked, so I take that as part of the minimum. http://arenaspa-bangkok.com/what-is-the-minimum-tips-最低消費是什麼 So anything more needs to be agreed to ahead of time. I think there are examples of people have not understood this and been flustered that the masseur expects a higher tip for receiving a blow job from the customer. If kissing is important I think you really really really must confirm that with the manager when you make your selection. I think all around the world it is true that some guys in the business kiss and others simply do not. (For some guys in this part of the world tongue kissing is also not part of their cultural background.) Now when you're talking about a shop where the minimum tip is 1,000/hr or over, there my going-in assumption is that it is full service. So, an example might be Prince, where the house charge for 1 hr. oil is 900, the minimum "tip" is 1,000/hr. http://www.theprincebkk.com [Prince is just an example, not an exclusive recommendation. It has it's good points and bad.] But at Prince or Arena or VCK, or even the Soi Twilight shops, because so many of the guys are straight/top only, if you are interested in kissing you again absolutely MUST confirm that with the manager when you make your selection. Also, something that I find common at the big shops is that even if you discuss all your requirements with the manager, don't expect him to pass on that helpful customer service info to the masseur. Ugh. So, if I were you and it's important, as you're walking to the room wherever you go confirm with the guy "You can kiss - yes?" It also helps him know what you want and he really want you to be happy.