DivineMadman

Just for common courtesy/respect I always learn the basics - greetings, thank you, no thank you, how much, check please, etc. and a new word or phrase every day of travel - wherever I go. Now if I meet a guy from, for example, Myanmar, I can jokingly list the couple of Burmese words I remember. It's a nice respectful ice-breaker that always earns me a smile. I've found locals always appreciate the effort. Beyond that I think it's optional. Up to you. Certainly around Thailand there are still lots of guys making their way to Bangkok with very little or no english, so it helps expand the pool of available guys and makes it a tad bit easier to get them to do what you want. To this day I regret an episode that happened many years ago when I barely knew any Thai and I was out someplace where the guys had no english and it turned out the guy I was with was asking me if I was looking for a bottom when I thought he was asking me if I wanted to bottom. The one that got away! As you say, google translate is good even though sometimes very limited. But the effort actually to learn a language would most likely eclipse the number of times the problems with google translate really make a difference for the average guy.

I think - for the most part - the guys barely discuss us, and if they do it's only in the extremes - extremely bad or gross, smells, trying to get out of paying or paying less, odd behavior. Put another way, I think they discuss us the same way a baristas at a coffee shop discuss their customers. Or they might comment on the hotel or something special like that, in the same way that they often post facebook pictures of themselves in particularly fancy bathrooms for their friends in the know to see. If customer becomes a "regular" or starts doing things outside of work, then of course they will discuss it with their friends. For us as customers the encounters often take on a bit more meaning and fantasy-fulfilling expectations. For them it's just a job and it's always nice when it turns out particularly pleasant. Make clear before agreeing to off a guy that you want to stay and see the show (if that's what you want). It certainly 100% accepted that you do that. Once I used to spend time with someone from Dreamboys who was a university student, and he really appreciated the earlier evenings. When I would off a guy and want to stay for the show, personally I always let the guy go get changed so he's more comfortable in his regular clothes. The other solution of course would be to wait until after the show to say you're going to off him, although there's always the risk he goes off with a different customer. Up to you.

Anything you give will be appreciated. I once gave a guy a bottle of nice cologne. He lit up because he said it was the first he ever got "original" cologne, instead of the cheap knock-off on the streets, and no matter how hard he works he would never spend that kind of money on something so frivolous for himself. Any gift, big or small will be appreciated.

I know many guys who don't go to country for a particular customer. In fact most of the guys that I'm thinking of go entirely on their own, sometimes but not always with a friend or two, just on spec'. They start working the apps or already have a connection at a massage shop. They buy their own tickets, get through immigration and set all on their own (or with their friends). They have the mutual support/information sharing networks about where to stay, etc.. There are several from VN in my Hornet feed right now here who are basically doing just that, and I know VN guys, Cambodian guys, Laos guys and Thai guys who have been to more places throughout Asia than I have been (almost). I consider it risky but they're young and resilient. They do fine.

I have not. It's certainly a wonderful thought. I don't want to sound pessimistic, I applaud your generous spirit. Just some random disassociated thoughts: -To be clear, we're not talking about a credit card, just a debit card that's visa/mastercard. Right? I can't even fathom how you would arrange to get him a true credit card issued over here. - I don't know where you would actually get your guy a free-standing no-bank-account cash pre-paid debit card over here in BKK. I don't think it's as common as say in the U.S. With luck others can help tell you where you could get a good one. I also recall that in the U.S. a lot of those sorts of cards came under heavy criticism from the consumer advocates b/c of high hidden fees. - Local banks offer debit cards for account holders at reasonable fees (k-bank is 100 for the card and 200 annual fee). If your guy doesn't have a bank account, encouraging him to set up and seed a bank account is a better first step. Thai guys and in my experience Laos and VN guys already have accounts, Cambodia & Myanmar more of a case-by-case basis. Their own network of friends would be the source for where to get an account. (I.e., I wouldn't walk in with your guy to the Bangkok Bank head office, not that you were thinking of doing that.). - if you're worried about a customer taking him someplace and him getting stranded, not sure a 10K card which he may or may not spend down beforehand is the answer. Much better to tell him that he should make sure that if it's a country any distance away he buys the r/t ticket himself. - As far as visiting other countries on his own or with friends, I think far better to trust your guy and his friends to know what they're doing. I know lots of guys who stopped school at 13-14 and travel to China, Singapore, Malaysia, Dubai, etc., (wherever there's money and men) all without cards. I'm impressed by these guys. Once they get the hang of travel they are feerless. Maybe we're all being a little paternalistic. Or as my woke niece never tires of telling me, "check your privilege". - Throughout SE Asia it is very easy to get by without a debit card or credit card. Buying tickets, paying bills, etc., can easily be done. And as Thailand moves towards a more cashless society, that move is not being made as a move towards plastic cards, but rather phone-based payment systems, kiosks, and Family Mart/7-11. Promptpay TrueMoney Line Pay and more I am sure. - If you're really concerned about the emergency situation, maybe a nice hand printed "If you are ever in a true emergency call me and I will send you up to 10K baht by western union" would do? - Giving a guy 10K but saying "only use for emergencies" might be too much to expect, and your emergencies might not be his emergencies. He might think his brother's upcoming school fees are an emergency, but you really meant something else. - If you got a savings bond from your grandparents, were you really happy? When you really wanted money for a new bike? If he's in his late 20s maybe the respectful thing is give the money and say I hope you use this for emergency savings. I recently had a heart-to-heart with a young cambodian friend about his medium-term goal for when he goes back home, and we talked about whether he can set money aside now, and he said he couldn't and didn't want to and right now he wanted to make his life better for his mom who did so much for his family, got up at 4:00 every morning etc., etc. I love that about these guys and it drives me crazy at the same time. But it is their heart and soul. - I believe the regional traditional way to save money for emergencies is gold. Maybe if you went with him and bought a nice gold chain he might hesitate to sell it as quickly as tap into cash. Just beware if he starts steering you towards the gold wedding bands.... So good for you. Lucky for him. And where were you when I was looking for a boyfriend?

Good advice all. I've tried to make it clear that the info I put out isn't even intended to be complete or exhaustive, and only occasionally up-to-date. I figure the guys who are inclined to go explore some of the different parts of Bangkok will figure that out on their own. I try to get to places a few times before posting a meaningful write-up. I may have a good time at DM Spa but I'm not getting back there this year, just because I'm busy. Lat Prao is such a traffic nightmare these days I'm just not even thinking about going over there. I get the shakes just thinking about going near Don Muang, which means what looks to be a nice new place like Orchid is going to be left for someone else to report on. I'm not sure some places really even care much about the farang crowd. And it's really about the guys there at that particular day (as Crystal Relax points out now), so how much can you really plan. Personally, there are some guys at Koonpaan (rough transliteration) who I think are really sexy, but I'm not sure they're everybody's type and it's not convenient, so, again, why bother. There are some places that I just ignore for other reasons. One place was discussed on a Thai board and I thought the owner's responses were off-putting, so forget it (as far as I'm concerned). A new place that started being active on Line posted pics of two guys that seemed rather young and put "17-18" as the caption. Delete block and move on. If you have found a good place that you want to give some advertising - post about here. I wanted to get AEC some visibility to support a nice small new business and I took a shine to a couple of the guys. Bantai is still in business. Somedbody have time to go there and update?? Or if you have favorite place that you want keep secret (like Pong), fine. Up to you. gboysiam and if you want to go through the hoops tmmsociety are good sources of info. I've found out about places from other members here (thank you 1moRussian ). I've also found out about places by facebook suggestions and similar random connections.

then you please do explain this from colmx: "unless of course you are precious and need to feel extra special " What's that?

I'ld be interested in reports of your recent visits, because there have been several reports that it was no longer a "full service" massage shop. As to your incredulity - in the tiresome wordy bits of the blog I think I made it clear that it's my list with my choices. I even specifically called out why I didn't put Banana Club on the list. In the section titled "Deliberate Omissions" -- did you check there, by the way?? -- I wrote: Banana Club (Asoke) has a lot of fans, but there have been too many reports of theft. I recommend it for foot massages at the ground floor level, but there should never be any reports of theft. Plus I don’t like the common shower/changing area and found the selection not so great last couple of times I went there. But as I said, it has its fans. Fine with me if you disagree. De Gustibus and all that. At least I gave you the chance to experience the incredible. That's nice, isn't it? I think there's a line from Alice in Wonderland about six impossible things before breakfast. So you're one-sixth of the way there today. Please do give us a report of your recent visit, because that would be the best thing of all, and it would correct all those statements out there that it's closed for funny business. And of course the graciousness of your post is most touching.

If true, that's really sad. As gay men we should be "live and let live" and "spend and let spend." If you're judgmental -- and calling people "precious" is certainly judgmental -- about a simple thing as where people stay or how they chose to spend their money on their hobbies or themselves, then are you really any different from the people out there thinking and increasingly saying doing all the hateful homophobic things/acts about how two people choose to love or live? Also, all that negativity is just a poison in your system. It's not doing you or anyone else any good. Judging other people for their hotel choices????

Wow. So if someone stays at Le Meridien they're "precious." Sad that you feel the need to criticize people like that. It's the usual shit about people projecting their money issues onto others. If someone wants to spend their money on X, Y or Z, they should be free to do so. Can't imagine how this negativity makes you or the world a happier or better place. Do you really walk by nice hotels thinking such bad thoughts about the strangers who stay there???? And if the customer has left the bar and he and his guy has already set on the standard short-time or long-time tip, expectations are set and that's s non-issue. Maybe the guy will like being taken to a Le Meridien or Crowne Plaza or Raya. Also, there are tons of twinks who happily both or top, even at Classic Boys. If the OP twinks, why not take him at his word. If the OP wants to stay at the W, why piss in the punchbowl.

As far as tipping is concerned. For 90 minutes I usually tip 1,500 or 2,000 if there's been penetrative sex, a meaning blow job or the combo of massage/HJ is star quality. At one hour the starting point would be 1,000. There are certainly cheaper shops, but the places I go even in some of the farther out neighborhoods 1,000/hour "Hard" massage tip is common. Beyond that I am incapable of slicing and dicing like some people. "This was an 800 baht experience" "This was an 1,100 baht blow job." I just can't do that. So I have a budget and a simple this-is-what-I-pay rule and then I can turn off my brain and enjoy the experience.

I think the owner young boss guy is f++king gorgeous. The others definitely benefit from camera angle and filters. Just a caveat. I never want to oversell a shop.

BTW - I freely give out my Line address, but if a guy gets clingy or pesky I first explain the problem to him and tell him if he doesn't stop I will block him. Then after that polite warning if it persists I block.

May should not be particularly busy. The coronation will be 4-6. That of course will be a big event. I think the 20th is a Buddhist holiday. If you've done anything at all right then the guy will ABSOLUTELY want you to take him again. Will he really get annoyed or hurt feelings? No. He may play pouty-face, but he knows the deal. I think the pouty-face thing is kind of cute. If he's not disappointed that you're off'ing him again, wouldn't that make you wonder? LOL One side note - I avoid saying "maybe next time" or "maybe another day" unless I really mean it. I find that this will all of a sudden becomes "but you promised me". Whether this is because of real translation issues or it's just a well known pressure game they play, I don't know. (I think the latter.) In full disclosure I should note that I am a one-guy/one-bar person. If I have a regular from one bar, I steer clear of other guys from his bar or his friends. There are also working guys who will not go with someone who is a regular of a friend of theirs. It's all just a bit of politeness. I even avoid going to one particular because I broke up with someone who works there and I think he would lose face if I go and off another guy. But fortunately this doesn't really limit me. God, I love Bangkok.

My unsolicited advice. First day have nice full service massage to get your rocks off, I mean take the edge off, in the late afternoon. Now that that's over with, relax. Later grab a bite soi 4 or Maxi's. On Soi 4, Telephone or Balcony will be a better choice than the German restaurant. My own advice would be mindful not to drink too much. The advantage of Maxi's on Soi Twilight is you could get there and chill and watch better-than-Netflix as the guys show up for work, the bars open up, the massage guys at Bangkok and Bonny are hanging out, a food vendor or two pushes the cart by, you see lots of other vistors old and young, etc. After 9:15 pick a bar that maybe isn't top on your list and tell yourself and anyone who asks that you are not looking for an off, just a visit. The bars may sort of open at 8:00, but not really, and some guys don't even have to show up for work until 9:00. Only newbies or guys picking up regulars go to gogo bars early. Let this first bar by design be your no pressure gateway experience. DO NOT OFF ANYONE NO MATTER HOW CUTE. The purpose of this particular visit is just to lose you newbie status. Have a drink. See the guys on stage trying to get your attention. Practice the eye contact-smile-but-no-promises game. Practice your ignoring-the-mamasan skills by politely shaking your head and saying no to whatever they ask. Finish your drink. Now you get to say "check bin, kap." Pay for your drink and leave at least 20 baht for the deserving waiter. No need to tip anyone else. If you think there is someone you made delicious eye contact with and you want to make an impression, hand him the 50-100. After this you are legit longer a newbie. You are now an experienced veteran. You now know as much as anyone else. You can go into any bar with confidence. You can even start giving people unsolicited advice on what to do. Next bar you can have a guy sit with you but now as a vet you don't feel any pressure to off him just because he has the softest most beautiful skin you have ever seen in your life. Or maybe you will. You're in charge. You're a pro. And after having visited another top-of-your-list bar or two you think the love of your moment is back at bar, you can always go back or on another day. DO NOT BECOME A VICTIM OF FOMO. That's my advice. With one caveat. You could also do exactly the opposite. It's all supposed to be fun.

Each of can and should make "am I getting value for my money" decisions. And for many of us they will be different. I don't go to the gogo bars all that often these days so the cost of roughly $16(US) plus waiter tip for club cover charge + drink + rather well done show with some very well built men + opportunity to select from a parade of guys that i can take away for sex if I want (and pay for) --all for about $16 seems ok as the occasional luxury item, which is what I think of any of these places. Sort of like a steak dinner every once in a while or a drink poolside at a luxury resort. And these sorts of places only exist in a few spots around the world. They certainly don't exist in sub-freezing New England where I would otherwise be. Also, I don't think of them as the neighborhood bar where I hang out and drink with friends, whether old or transactional. One drink at the Lebua Sky Bar is only a little less. Sad truth is these days being a tourist in Bangkok can be very expensive (although it doesn't have to be).

Yes a guy will go with you to Maggie Choo's. I would make clear what your plans are with the guy if you're just off'ing him from a bar. As the evening progresses the line at Maggie Choo's can get long. Maxi's is a smallish restaurant/bar where can sit and watch all the foot traffic on soi twilight. Nice folks work there. The food is also good. Stranger Bar is fun (small) bar that has very popular drag shows. The crowd is very mixed. Sort of an East Village NYC vibe (back when the East Village was the East Village). I regularly go there with my guys-of-the-moment and they enjoy it. It's also very popular with expats of the younger fun loving variety. It's more inclusive than Maggie Choo's, which is a little bit hi-so.

Another hotel you might put on your list is Le Meridien on Surawong. On the same level as Sofitel and W, and certainly very convenient to Soi Twilight/Soi 4. Maggie Choo's Sundays is nice. If you go you probably might want to bring a friend. A note of caution on Fake Club - I'ld say it's sort of a "deep cut" for visitors to BKK. A lot of fun but it is mostly a local Thai club, if you're with some local guys yes it's great. It's also in a different neighborhood. You might find enough to occupy yourself in Silom for your first visit. Perhaps to correct the reference to GOD on soi 2??? GOD closed and the club in that space goes under the name G Bangkok and in any event it's on soi 2/1, not soi 2. DJ Station is the big dance club on Soi 2 and I certainly would encourage you to put it on your list. Classic Boys is historically the ur-twink bar and even though they are at the far end of the soi they have not given up the ghost just yet. They've been spreading some money around and got back some guys who have moved to other clubs. Also they do put on a show and it's mostly guys who are available, and it's nice in its own way because they really do take their work on the show very seriously. So put it on your list. There are twinks everywhere (except Tawan), but if you're ranking them more at Classic Boys than Dream Boys. Enjoy the thrill of your visit. I'm jealous. And you won't have the burden of "Oh, it's not what it used to be." Enjoy it all for what it is now. (And don't forget Maxi's restaurant on Soi Twilight and Stranger Bar on Soi 4. )

In case it's not on your radar screen, there's a free Muay Thai fight lineup on the last Wednesday of every month at MBK. With the closure of the old stadium on Rama IV, it's the easiest way to catch a match if you're in the CBD. 5:00-8:00 pm. Here's a link to the Feb 27 event. Fight Night

For those in Bangkok - It's the end of the season for Bangkok Symphony In The Park. The concerts are free and the last concert (this season) will be Sunday at 5:00. They're usually pleasant. For those who haven't been this year, reminder that the location has changed to Chula Centenary Park. Location The park itself is worth a short visit. The winners for the Symphony's voice talent search will also perform. The program for Sunday is: William Tell Overture Jurassic Park Bohemian Rhapsody I Know Where I’ve Been from Hairspray - สิรวิชญ์ In My Own from Cinderella - พรรณพฤกษา Gonna Fly Now from Rocky A New Life from Jekyll & Hide - ไรวินทร์ I’d do Anything from Oliver - นัทธมน ระบำสุโขทัย (Arr. ผศ.ดร. นรอรรถ) แขกปัตตานี (Arr. ผศ.ดร. นรอรรถ) Don’t Cry for Me Argentina from Avita - พิมพ์วรา Stars from Les Miserables - ฉันทัช On My Ownfrom Les Miserables - อรไพลิน As If We Never Said Goodbye from Sunset Boulevard - รินลดา Can’t Buy Me Love Climb Every Mountain - ร้องหมู่ Radetzky March

Last thing in the world I want to be is a defender of mamasans, but do note that they pay the guys who work there. The bar's net on the bar fine is not a lot. Example at X-Boys might be let's say a 500 bar fine (off fee) minus the 300 they are paying the guy you off'd = 200.. You bought a drink/paid your cover charge of 350. That's not enough to pay for the bar, the show and all those hungry mamasans and waiters. (Don't forget, there are some people who don't tip the waiters.). The bars make their money on the drinks. drinks drinks drinks X-Size at one point had a fairly sensible rule. The bar fine was, I forget exactly, let's say 400 regular or 550 if you didn't buy the guy a drink. Maybe a trasnparent rule like that would make more sense. And having said all that, i and many others have off'd guys by just walking in (or to the door) and picking up a regular and paying only the bar fine. I think it depends on the bar, mamasan, how business is, are you a regular,or not, blah blah. Certainly your experience at X-Boys confirms why many of the guys hate the mamasans and left. The mamasans put the bar's short-term needs first.

A couple of the mamasans at X-Boys (BKK) have definitely secured the title for most odious mamasans on Soi Twilight (formerly held by several over at Classic Boys). Nothing would surprise me about the mamasans at X-Boys, but some mamasans even at other bars will insist that the customer buy a drink for his cutie if the mamasans (or manager) think the customer and the guy are abusing the system. So if you regularly and repeatedly go sit with a regular guy(s) but slip a bigger cash tip instead of buying a drink, the mamasans may start insisting on buying drinks. (The old "Why buy a drink for 350 when I can just tip the guy 150 and we're all happy.") Obviously not buying the drinks is bad for the bar and not really the host bar "deal" so the boss or mamasan may try to police it - or at least get their share of the gold. But in my experience I think it has to be a repeat offender for this to happen. (Are you reading this Paulsf???). And if the mamasan thinks you are sitting too long with a guy without buying a drink he may start getting more pushy because it's also part of his job to make sure you are fair to the guy you're sitting with, and in that world that means you buy the guy a drink so he gets his 40 baht commission PLUS a tip for his time. Back to the original question - X-Boys is not doing all that well. The good news from the perspective of the guys who work there is that they have started paying the guys 300 baht a night, up from 250. There are signs outside advertising this and there's often a rather forlorn mamasan (usually the nice one) sitting at a table outside hoping to get some recruits. It's all a bit sad. That word I got got from a good friend who works there is that X-Boys had to raise what it was paying because business was so bad that guys were fleeing the bar. Speculation is that word got out among the customers, which means especially the Chinese customers, that the mamasans at X-Boys are horrible. Not all of them are so obnoxious, but the main two are just so horrible that they do really hurt business. The bad X-Boys mamasans also regularly play favorites and will steer customers to certain guys. Having said all that, there are some cute guys there and of course some customers most of the time. Some guys are very happy with the 300 a night, with a little less competition than Fresh Boys, and maybe a little more flexibility with nights off (for Hornet or Grindr customers) than they would get at Fresh Boys. And you only need one (or two on your birthday).

Sorry you had a bad experience and thanks for posting this. Poorly trained masseurs (and yoga instructors) can be a real danger. Some of these guys say they learn by watching youtube videos. !!! These places with high turn-over (including Nakarat) just can't be training or recruiting qualified guys. At least that's my opinion, and why I usually steer clear. I recently had a massage at a very highly regarded place that boasts about training. A while back they had started a practice where if you are lying on your stomach they put a small rolled up towel right at the ankle (between ankle/top of the foot and the table). As a result the top of your foot isn't stretched out too much. My regular guy wasn't working and I had a different guy who clearly hadn't pay attention in class, so he put the support under my toes, which resulted in MORE strain. I would worry that what your guy did could injure your lower back. The choking bit was probably him attempting to give you some sort of a neck massage, but missing the point. I think lower back, knee or other joint risks it's 100% fair to give real-time feed back, but I'll admit I find that difficult. I am relatively tall (187) so even tables that have a face cutout usually don't work because my feet would hang over the end too far. That's why I was so pleasantly surprised by AEC - the new place on Suan Phlu. The tables are extra-wide and extra-long. I was able to use the face cut out and my feet didn't even reach the end of the table. It does seem the face cut out takes some pressure off neck and lower (back for me).