vinapu

You are correct, Vimanmek locker fees are not refundable. I don't remember what they are a but it was more than token amount. My apologies if I sounded aggressive with temple dress mini-lecture. I did not mean to attack you at all nor directed it at you Christian, rather wanted to provide some info to all those newcomers to Thailand who are always on prowl for the advice combing posts on this and other forums. It just came handy there because of contents of your posts I'm following your posts on other boards with interest.. Still believe we should not to be upset at hosts trying to enforce their rules, be it temple, bar or house.

Yes and I'm glad you mentioned that. I noticed that not only restaurant's or go-go waiters , mamasans etc rarely think for a tip but also boys seldom do. It may be cultural thing and hope others can comment on it . And no, with short time no less than 1500 and long no less than 2500 I don't think my is Cheap Charlie case

I hope Christian and you are not serious with that malignant cancer comment / wish. If you didn't witness such a death count your blessings. In most places it's still fairly easy to avoid burden of tipping by choosing non-tip kind of establishment by eating breakfast at McDonalds and buying one's beer at the store and drinking it on the bench in Lumpini Park. As Christian noticed when in Rome do what Romans do. In Rome , New York /yes there is such city between Syracuse and Albany / leave 15-20 % customary tip, in Rome, Italy ask locally what customs are . And no, I'm not fun of tipping either as tipping system is forcing service workers to depend on kindness od strangers instead of receiving fair wage like in Japan or Australia.

It must be upbringing, Today's youngsters seem never learn their place in line.

Wise , wise words. Unfortunately often forgotten. And not only in Thailand sense of humor and distance to ourselves helps-works everywhere. The same goes with your recipe for becoming jaded -not only tourists and ex-pats can use your warning but everybody . Looking at full half of glass is always much better than being upset about empty part. i.e. on our home turf of various forums -instead of being inflamed by unkind responses to one's posts poster should enjoy fact that somebody bothered to read and took pain to respond

Good thing you mention that Christian so others can be warned and prepared. Last time I had my sarong I just bought in Indonesia and proven handy anywhere I went -to cover myself in Emerald Buddha and other temples, to use as towel in hot springs, even one of boys visiting my used it to show his modesty after shower. Long live sarong ! Don't treat your experience with shorts as waste of time, rather as other culture learning experience or handy reminder. We enter church, we take hat off, we enter synagogue hat goes on, in the mosque or wat we will take our shoes off . Not difficult to remember and makes sightseeing easier and shows that we know and care. As I mentioned before biggest waste of time at Grand Place will be staying in the bed too long-than you need to beat crowds, it took me 4 or 5 visits before I smarten up to realize that.

It's one of those things which are boiling blood inside of me . Unfortunately this not unique to Thailand or even Third World countries. Remember OJ Simpson case and police chase in full view of monitoring cameras ? I don't believe that such a soft glove treatment would be awarded to guy of ordinary means suspect of murder.

Cheap gay guesthouse you mentioned is Om Yim and is indeed around the corner-no need to cross the street from Arena

Holly smoke ! That's Bizarre with capital B. Either boy was stupid and greedy or took you for somebody else who cheated him or his friend in the past. I can live with charmed life designation but honestly never had up front or after money discussion apart from asking for taxi money on few occasions for which I have straight ' you got enough already ' answer unless boy is leaving in middle of the night due to previous agreement. May be you should start 'boy's bizarre behavior' thread with your story as probably other would chip in with similar experiences. Don't cut yourself short- there's no such thing like generous foolish payment as long as boy make you even half happy. Stingy foolish payment -yes but this is not a case as per your narrative. And yes, 'mid-congress ' is as tactful as it can be .

I was there in May twice. Selection of boys was not big so firecat may be right but I was late during day. Nevertheless both times I left very happy . For bigger selection you may go earlier. Pictures on the website are not giving boys justice and this is a case with many sites IMHO. Go with your guts and try them, certainly I will next time. In fact this is always first boy place I visit in Bangkok after arrival so I may be biased being sentimental. Keep in mind it's always draw of luck, you may see 3 boys and all will be your taste or 20 and none will be- see recent HERO thread. Take all of our opinions and advices with grain of salt as each has own preferences about boys , venues , cleanliness, noise etc. which may or may not be the same like yours. Don't be discouraged by places where you are not picking boy but get one assigned from rotation i.e. Bangkok Massage in Soi Twilight. You may land a gem too. Look for eye contact from boy-chances are he is interested in you, helps to built chemistry which at end of day is more important than dick size, body shape etc.

I usually wait for hints from the boy, erect cock brushing against whatever part of you is sign he enjoys your company. If is close to your crack you know he is interested in action so bring your topic. Or when he starts to pay extra attention to your privates. You can ask mamasan before you pick up masseur what boy does (top, bottom , kisser etc.) if this is important to you before you start. Don't be shy-he heard all this and more before. For me big part of fun is just to see what happens so really I don't ask any questions other than if boy is a kisser sometimes. Don't plan too much . You may take charge when you feel it's time or let boy to have an initiative. But let it come naturally. Being versatile helps but still with that particular boy you may prefer this or that position. Or none if you are romantically inclined and you don't want to spoil you hour in heaven by too much sweat. I don't know about others but I would never bring subject of tip until it's over and both of us are dressed and ready to go. If boy asks then answer but in my experience it never happens. Some people reported this but I don't recall it happened to me in my 8 trips. If you ask boy how much he wants he usually tells you ' up to you ' standard answer. I can imagine your pumping heart when you will be approaching your first place and I envy you as hell !

I even know few serious travelers who are placing Grand Palace in the same league of great Asia monuments with Taj Mahal or Borobudur. In order to avoid crowds try to be there when they open at 8.30, before buses with hordes arrive. Past 10 a.m. it may be very difficult to get a glimpse of Emerald Buddha due to crowds. If you want to treat your boy special take him there-you may even be moved by his reaction. Trip from Sathorn pier ( Saphan Taksin BTS station) to Grand Palace (Tha Chang pier) by the boat ( Chao Praya express) is one of cheapest yet memorable Bangkok treats. Admission to the Palace for foreigners is 500 baht but included the same day admission to Vinamek Teak Palace and Throne Hall nearby. Taxi from palace to Vinamek should be 70-80 baht .

20 boys that late -that's good news as usually massage places don't have too many boys available 1-2 hours before closing

No, I'm not American and I'm not coming from tipping culture. I was responding to firecat's musings about forcing himself not to tip more than 10% so gave him idea how to look into issue . I'm not presuming that one should tip but realize that in many places tips are expected from foreigners even if local culture doesn't require to tip. It's why I tip in Thailand, not much as one can see above but still tip. I feel good and recipient I hope too. Agree 100% that Japanese / Pacific system of not tipping is better since doesn't create any obligation as you noted. Probably forcing Japanese non-tipping culture on Americans would be form of imperialism as well. Old enough people remember that 30 years ago prediction was that 21 century will belong to Japan but somehow it did not work.

Thank you firecat, I found it

I'd say only reason to reduce restaurant tip if you wish so would be to consider how much you tip your waiter who spent few minutes to serve you in relation to amount you tip your boy you spent hours and may be night together, even if just being his pillow. personally in restaurants I leave 20 baht note in bill's total is 300 or less, 40 baht if it's more with extra 20 if it crosses 1000 mark and grab all coins for BTS / MRT

still it explains difference in opinions but where aggression is coming from ? all those 'cheap Charlies" and ' you spoil the market by overtiping" . And this is not only this or even gay forums phenomena but seems to be universal right , left and center whenever humanity talks about other people money and spending habits.

Would you or Michael enlighten me where you guys are looking to see those numbers / 87 & 211 /. I feel stupid , illiterate and ugly

I always amazes me how heated people are becoming when discussing other people's money and how they spend it. Every post on tipping on very forum seems always most popular and generates most od what you call mildly 'strong opinions and words" Just an observation

you have a good heart !

I second that, we tip because we want to. It makes us and other side happy. If we don't want , we do not tip or tip very little but unfortunately we need to live with consequences if tip was expected. Sometimes one wonders where complains about slow or unsmiling service are coming from. Even if Thais don't tip we farangs likely are expected to tip I guess and as long as it is not requested we should. For most of us is still token amount and don't have idea why people are spoiling their vacations and stealing their fun from themselves due penny pinching or haggling over few cents worth. I'm not picking up at anybody because I was the same at one, thanks God, short time of my life in my travels and in recollection still feel uneasy over that.

On Agoda sometimes it depends of hotel and price When booking Tarntawan for my incoming trip Agoda had a choice of paying up front but rate was lower or paying later at the hotel with higher rate. Saved aprox 20 / like 1 off fee at Dreamboys those days / by taking up front option. And as a plus you can pay by Paypal so no need to reveal C/C number . For Malaysia it was prepay only , for BBB Inn and Le Café Royale no prepayment was required. I personally don't mean up front payment as it reduces amount of cash I need to carry. Hope one day we will be able to prepay for off fee at Twilight bars or for services of Saranom boys.

http://web.cruisingforsex.com/bb/thailand/340145-bangkok-go-go-boy-bar-update-2.html#post688058

Just today I saw post on CFS forum that this new bar named ZEUS opened in Soi Twilight-any visitors / comments so far . Hopefully one of you local guys will volunteer to inspect premises and reports. Don't feel rushed though. I sense Soi Twilight does not have many fans on our forum here

Thank you for excellent and detailed report , enjoyable to read. Congratulation on your pick, very nice hunk he is. Hope to contribute to this thread in 3 months