vinapu

I'm glad you liked Arena and Adonis, I have soft spot in my heart for Arena. Sorry to hear you weren't impressed at X-boys, I guess we share similar taste for bigger boys

Arena Massage let me take boys out on two separate occasions last month without charging me off fee just because I had massage at location earlier that day so not all in sex business is about money.

It's nothing wrong in telling people they are paying too much or too little as long as it's not patronizing, sometimes we just don't know, specially if we are using foreign currency and don't feel value. Always amazed me why people care about American's tipping habits, their money , their culture, their pleasure. And this extra 20-50 baht tip doesn't dent their budget but may help to feed one more person. I guess we human race like to talk about other's people money while discreet about our own.

No need to move to Cambodia, just move to soi 6, Nature Boys, Super A and Golden Cock are still there and short time can be had for 1000 according to recent post on one of forums. And Pattaya is only 2 hours away I would not be too harsh to people complaining about boys prices but as long as we have choice and we still do my advice is rather than focus on negatives like their greed try to find out way of getting best deal using positive side ie. your bargaining power. Firecat is right about stable prices. Today I checked my notes from my first trip to BKK in November 2001 - short time 1200 and 1500, long time 2000. I also paid 2000 for my first ever short time as I did not realize difference between two ' times' until next morning was enlightened by nosy neighbor from my floor who saw me with a boy at night and asked how much I paid him at breakfast. I like xiluzer attitude - you overpaid over going rate but happy memories are priceless. The same here. And if at times we pay and don't get what we want, chalk it off to experience and keep in mind it's not always only boy's fault encounter did not work.

I'd take spare shirt, sock and undies in carry-on just in case you luggage flies next day, when checking in BKK make sure they put red tag ' short connection' on your luggage to increase chances it flies with you all the way

I'm at the moment as far from Thailand as it can be, it's snowy winter here and it brings dry air so humidifiers are in demand items when winter starts

This very morning I helped my elderly neighbor to carry new humidifier she purchased in the drugstore opposite our building. She paid 90 $ fully knowing that the same make could be bought for 60 $ in the hardware store 6 bus stops down the street. When asked why such waste she explained that it would be too much hassle for her to carry pretty bulky and heavy box to and from the bus and she was happy it was available that close even at 50% premium. In market economy we are overpaying for goods and services constantly for convenience, lack of time to shop, not doing homework on comparing prices etc. Services of Thai boys are not exception to this. Some farangs want to show off as you noticed ,either to impress boy, their party or themselves, some don't know the going rate or don't care as long as is less then their domestic rate , some are unable to resist boy's request or not feeling comfortable haggling over price in any situation , not to mention intimate one. It may create inflationary pressure on tips but I'd venture this is rather problem for other casual visitors than frequent ones or residents who should have much better knowledge of local prices and where and how to get them. Read exploits of ChristianPFC who finds his regulars for 500 in the heart of BKK, option not suitable for most visitors as they don't know place and language to communicate effectively. Locals are also in better position to negotiate price with boys as have advantage of offering repeat custom . So while some farangs are overpaying I'd not call them more silly than Lorna, my neighbor above. I agree that some boys my be greedy or just try their luck going for gold as you neatly said but this is not different from our local drugstore and their humidifiers. Your friend had real choice- to make boy unhappy and possibly create a scene or go with the flow and pay / in case described overpay as price was negotiated / . If boy calls him everyday it may not be a bad thing if he is so cute your friend must have him but if it would be me I'd consider this to be neat possibility to negotiate digestible price. You know why boys are not calling me every day when there? I don't carry phone, and if I would certainly will not be providing them with number. It looks that your friend is happy with boy , boy sensed it and presented a bill. I know his feeling as my last boy offed in Nov wanted 5000 in the morning for long time - I stand my ground firmly with 3000 which is more than going rate anyways but like your friend I just had to have him. Not nice parting ways and it looked that boy was much more unhappy than me but I consider this his fault- if you want to be paid more than going rate make sure you make it known beforehand. And there is all this black area we don't know much about- it's how much Asian customers are tipping, if less than farangs boys are trying to find compensation, if more than we are in weaker position as in some bars we are outnumbered big time. Complains about overtipping are nothing new and discussions are always interesting while heated but what always amazes me is that if somebody reveals that paid say 3000 for short time is classified as unwise spender to put it mildly but if dinner bill is quoted as 1000 or hotel room at 4000 nobody says the word about inflationary pressures automatically assuming that people have right to finance their lifestyle as they feel fit. Why deny it to those who are happy to dine on street for 50 and bed in cheap places in order to save money for a other pleasures of flesh? Like your friend "spends every baht he can whoring around" , rest assured there are more people like him. And as long as there are boys on the stage we have some negotiating power if we want to use it. But for some, spoiling night over 500 baht / 16$ / price difference may not feel like worth the trouble, others will be nickel diming to the last 20 baht note. My general comment will be that IMHO lots of complains about tip inflation comes from people who would rather pay less but do not feel comfortable in Cheap Charlie skin and are not good in price negotiations, resigning to pay what's requested and to complain later i.e. essentially good hearted people. And this is what Thai boys like in us.

Welcome back ! What the hell is NSA, some spy agency? I just happened to read my own post yesterday to recover boy's name and came across of you comment about returning. You better recover in boy's arms at 11.30 p.m. than in front of screen

What 'keeneow' stands for, is this some singlish expression? I see this word used often, never had a chance to ask. If you are content with your life in Pattaya this is what counts, good for you ! Pattaya needs more farangs who are happy there- too many unhappy faces, this is memory I took with me from brief visit in Nov. And you are right , in company of younger people we feel younger too.

Firecat, where you are ? I thought you about to arrive in PTY, on Nov 23 you commented on one of my post that you arrive in 24 days.

Nothing to disagree , I actually am on your side but in real life I just don't follow my own theory. And do not have any regrets on skipped drinks . When I go to bar to see show I purchase drink for myself and a boy, either one I drag with me there or one picked up from the bar line, if this is a case I tip him as well on top of drink. Always tip fuck show boys, at least one big cock participant and at least one boy from stage apart from one who was sitting with me. So I feel justified if day or two later I just show up to grab the boy without drink, particularly at Dreamboys with their 650 off fee. I'd not be concerned about boy milking me for another 50 if I paid my standard rate but would not give a baht more if paid more. Bigger fraud they are subjecting us is when they promise , say , long time and after few hours phone call from dying mother causes end of roll in the sheets because they must leave. I doubt somebody consider 3500 going rate may may be this is what person paid - sometimes boys are not afraid to quote extraorbitant price - one of my massage boys wanted 5000 for long time when I asked. Last time I was there for Christams was in 2002, I remember I was wondering about seasonal increase in rates but it was not a case, in fact one boy converted voluntarily short time to long one and refused extra money.

I read it somewhere about upping off price without drink purchased but personally never had such experience and I'd say more often than not I off boy without drink either because I was in bar before and know whom I want or seeing boy on the stage made fast decision. Second approach is not advisable as often looks and performance are not matched, it's actually better to invest in drink , talk to the boy and feel his skin a bit. At 3 a.m. is heartless to advise boy about free bus but if one tip him well can send a boy home with clear conscience. This is what I prefer and never pay any taxi allowance.

I have the same problem with Internet explorer 11.0 , no quote function working so you not alone Bob

Taking just one farang for a good ride at night may result in daytime trip to the store and here's the phone. Or flashing thing beyond boys means the same thing like in the West where some people are driving cars they really can't afford just to flash or feel better , imagine visiting your village in Laos being first there owing smartphone, spirits of everybody are lifted up that one of them made good as 'tour guide' in Pattaya. But you my be right, I noticed too that they tend to be discreet about their work and at times tend to skip questions when asked.

Street food likely is similar to what they eat at home like mama's cooking so likely it's why they like it. You are100% right about western food -specially in hot Thai climate they would acquire our shapes very fast. Colmx observation may be spot on- smiling face always attracts attention of others. On another hand offing boy who still smells his previous clinet may not be best receipt for fun as boy may not be as enthusiastic as we wish. Your estimation of 5-6 offs per month for average boy may be correct if not over optimistic. Really I don't have an idea but have my statistic samples-for most of my massage boys I was their first client that day, I usually ask either mamasan or them after they landed my contract. Granted they may be lying for some reason but I doubt. One of best looking boys from Classic I offed in 2nd half of May told me I'm his second off that month only. Very good looking #76 from Dreamboys, owner of firm and perky butt told me I'm his first off in 4 days. Yes at that bar it's lots of internal competition as IMHO almost all boys there are very good looking but on another hand this is very busy bar packed even on Monday or Tuesday evenings with prospective clients.

Don't be shy, Hemingway was good writer but he is dead for a while. We are not looking for report contender to the Nobel Prize in literature but some insight about your findings would be nice, dry 2 liners like in your post about Albury are quite informative and good to keep forum alive

This link works , thank you

I tried to see Pink Butterflies but message shows ' this video was removed by the user", any idea what this may mean?

Dave , what you meant bars don't make money from off fees ? Look at Dreamboys, off fee is 650, drink just 380, even in ABomb is 400 versus 200 if not 180. Certainly they are compensated for fact that boy is leaving a stage. Actually all my 4 offs / 3 boys , one twice / in Nov from Dreamboys were drinkless - had a drink night before, spied some cuties and next day just entered asking if boy is there and took him out, did not even sit in bar, no fuss. Although I understand your reasoning - if all boys are taken out then no reason to step inside but this doesn't happen too often and likely only in smaller bars. I recall somebody was reporting few years ago Nature Boys deserted after farang offed all boys that evening. Absolutely on your side with comparison to prices elsewhere - where I live it cost 20$ per song for boy to table dance , song lasts 5 minutes, so 15 minutes would be 60$ =1800 baht and body contact is very limited if any. Whole night encounter likely would be in thick hundreds. As for tips I go case by case , sometimes I ask up front, sometimes just tip him and ask if he is happy. I agree boys are seldom bringing it up but can imagine if under tipped they would. Good indication is when they ask for taxi money but at times this is out of greed, had boy in May, sandbag in bed, tipped going rate and still asked for taxi money, tried his luck I guess. Did not give him offering advice ' you got enough already' instead. If no tip is discussed we must prepare for out of sky quotation sometimes , again likely boys are sensing newbie of week knees clinent and trying their luck. Boy from BoyClub , formed Scandic in the Boyztown wanted 5000 for long time when we discussed possibility but immediately agreed to half of that which was over going rate anyways but I was impressed with his body and massage skills so felt generous. Clearly this was ' try and let's see case' and at times it may work fore them if client is fresh from the plane.

This is very smart on their part to set this kind of insurance, most of them are far from families and are only their friends from bars they can count on. This is not laughing matter as over the years on few occasions I offed boys who were visibly hungry. Now I would not even think about taking boy to the hotel before asking him ' where you want to eat' and very seldom they tell me they eat already. / I just counted based on my notes, out of 14 offs in November only 3 skipped food part /. It never crossed my mind before somehow at one point I noticed that boy is hungry. We may be under impression that they have multiple offs every night but I doubt this is case for most if any of them. Bars are providing some food late in the evening but if one offs boy early he may not have eaten since morning if at all. Lots of merits are to be earned by offering them a supper. Anonone with this roof party earned probably enough to be upgraded unexpectedly to first class on his next trip.

Bar will charge you off fee 300-400 for taking boy out. This charge is sure thing ! When in bar you will buy drink yourself , otherwise you will feel awkward and will be pestered by mamasans constantly. If boy will be sitting with you which is good idea so you can familiarize himself with him a bit it will be nice if you buy him a drink as well. It 's possible to avoid drink expenditure if you enter bar and immediately see boy you like , nothing wrong with skipping drink parts and just taking him out after paying off fee. This will be a case if you were in bar say , night before and already made your mind. No need for drink liturgy in such a case. As per thread above short time / 1-3 hrs / tip should be 1000 or may be more if you are happy or./and boy is unhappy with 1000 , long time / overnight / tip should be 1500 or more for the same reasons. There are two schools, one doesn't discuss money at all , you just pay going ratewhen boy is ready to leave. Second one is to agree on tip beforehand. Both options have good and bad sides so make your own mind what you prefer.

Xiluzer, no need to be jealous, I'm not released from prison Rambo nor Conan the Barbarian by any means. Many massages were just that with healthy dose of body contact but without "drainage" at least not on my part. I like romantic BS like hand holding, stolen kisses and wandering hands here and there. More fun for me than just fast fuck ' you cum , I go' style Same goes with long time offs. Butterflying also helps fight fatigue with joy of discovery of new places and faces / and underwear contents / but is good to have consolators . In case you have stretch of crappy encounters is good to return for a night to safe and known pair of biceps, thighs, nuts and buttocks or may be just lips. Don't over do it and listen to your body, last thing you need is to be in BKK or PTY and discover one evening that you rather watch TV and drink alone than warm yourself with boy because 'too much of good thing" feeling. Not unknown to us if you read carefully posts on forums. And hope on behalf of all of us her that you will update us about your discoveries .

When I was first time in LOS in 2001, Albury , then in soi11, was king of BKK massage places. It looks that move to new location did not serve them well. Did you like Uniman and their boys line up?

I learned something new, I don't frequent clubs so did not have much idea about drink quota system. Go-go likely are on different quotas as I did not notice them being very pushy for drinks, mamasans sometimes are. But can envision they may have some quota of offs per month. 200 per drink is not the steep but 1000 would be hair rising. I'm happy for coyote and his two 1000 baht drinks but feel sorry for his admirer who spent 2000 and still went home alone but I think this happened to may of us too

Coyote drink system sounds cruel but I hope somehow it works for them. Likely they are getting their cut from drink. When at X-size , Soi Twilight, had boy sitting with me during show, my drink 200 /they had promotion that day / , his 290. I noticed he got some paper slip with his drink so possibly this was to satisfy his quota, or to secure his cut on drink or may be both. Actually it would be quite interesting to learn was bars and massages are dealing with boys compensation. There are stories than mamasans are extorting portion of boy's tips or some boys in massages are freelancers only so if they don't get a client they go home hungry. At least boy at Playboy massage in Silom when got his tip from me told me that he is going to eat something because he did not eat yet that day and it was getting dark at the time, but it could be just his way of feeding himself- good meal late afternoon. When in tropics I usually don't eat anything after breakfast until late evening. Noticed few times when offing boys they were giving of 20 baht to mamasans - looked as their tip to them, not unreasonable . Looks that we agree on upscale dining- boys neither enjoy it nor appreciate our expense and as your BF comment shows -they are actually right. This brings us to another show we farangs are putting sometimes - few of them are dining enjoying conversation and boy or boys at the table are visibly left out and bored to death. Only place I saw this spectacle when in Nov was soi 4 and did not like it.