vinapu

It looks it's on and off with mamasans in Classic, in May I was impressed for they were friendly and not pushy at all. In November both of them were so pushy for tips that I resorted to my rarely used trick and tipped one of them 1 baht, to his credit he got a message ans smiled. I had a drink for myself and boy sitting with me so not that I was abusing system . Never lose hope, I had cases when boy demanded taxi money which I never give and even when declined he still expressed desire to see me again. It's what we said above, trying for more rarely hurts them

I understand what you are saying but I was crossing by car and I carry passport of US friendly country , not Sudanese or North Korean

That's correct attitude - move your business to place you like more. But there may be people who don't like sleaze in soi 6 bars, may not be brave enough to cruise Saranrom in dark without ability to speak Thai / no to mention ability to run fast is somebody attacks them with knife like happened to certain Christian / and find Pattaya cheap but boring . I think we tend to underestimate attractiveness of soi Twilight to casual visitors, if you pass through it every few days you may not look at the place like somebody who flied half way through the globe and finds himself in place like no other in the whole world. Their willingness to pay may be different than old hands who know half of the soi by name and dick shape. Whether prices are realistic or not this is issue to be sorted by bars and they really know what is going on in their cash register. I suspect you mat be correct that number of offs is low as on my last trip I visited all bars in soi with Dreamboys multiple times plus Jupiter and Screwboys , spent at least 2 hours inside of each one plus I was dining daily at either Maxi's or Dick's and must say I did not see much traffic of farangs marching out with boys . Granted I always left soi no later than 11 p.m. so possibly there's more of it late in the night. Only time will show if ours or bar owners assessment of business is correct. As for what tip money is going to we had nice thread about it in the summer. But I walked with three of my long time offs to their bus stop on Silom or San Yan MRT so not all of them taxi hoppers. At end of day is not our business what they do with money they extracted from us although it would be nice if we were sure it went to productive use. But I guarantee many of our grandmothers are rolling in the grave when they see where our hard earned money goes to when we are in Thailand, whoring , boozing and shopping for things we don't need. On personal note I need to admit that I'm convert to soi Twilight, eschewing it for years not as much because prices , more that I did not like pressure from barkers when passing by and always had better traction with massage than go-go boys . Recently I noticed I like whole atmosphere, from dead silence in the morning through hustle and bustle later on with lots of eye candy which can be observed for free or as ad-on to the dinner. On issue of prices there I tend to let it go as it is but for me is easy - only 4 overnight offs from bars as opposite to 10 massage boys. What I found and already expressed in other post is that I see logic in higher off fee at Dreamboys as I found both their line- up and show better than in other bars. I think somebody should tell me ' shut up vinapu'

Trailrider be nice to firecat. I already thanked you for starting such interesting thread. No need to be belligerent. When we start any topic and formulate any opinion we need to be prepared that it will be challenged, right or wrong , specially such sensitive topic like money and how people are using it. English is only my third language but if you go to OP you'll see you used word 'should' twice in the last paragraph hence some readers could have read it as request not just suggestion IMVHO / v stands for very /

Speaking about stupid questions by US border service. In beginning of July I was entering USA to attend my friend funeral, barrage of questions included : ' you are renting or living in your own home' and ' whom you are living with at home". Compare it to landing in any European country where usually question is 'how are you" In Soviet times I was in USSR four times, none of entry subjected my to even remotely similar investigation. I wonder if Americans realize how much their cherished freedoms are curbed in recent years and how brainwashed they become if they think this is right?

I gladly pay BKK prices to BKK boys and consider premium over PTY prices as a fee for living , even for week or two in such exciting city, I was bored in Rome, New York and London but never ever in Bangkok

Thai uses double decker A-380 on BKK -Narita leg, now we know why

I'm glad you liked Arena and Adonis, I have soft spot in my heart for Arena. Sorry to hear you weren't impressed at X-boys, I guess we share similar taste for bigger boys

Arena Massage let me take boys out on two separate occasions last month without charging me off fee just because I had massage at location earlier that day so not all in sex business is about money.

It's nothing wrong in telling people they are paying too much or too little as long as it's not patronizing, sometimes we just don't know, specially if we are using foreign currency and don't feel value. Always amazed me why people care about American's tipping habits, their money , their culture, their pleasure. And this extra 20-50 baht tip doesn't dent their budget but may help to feed one more person. I guess we human race like to talk about other's people money while discreet about our own.

No need to move to Cambodia, just move to soi 6, Nature Boys, Super A and Golden Cock are still there and short time can be had for 1000 according to recent post on one of forums. And Pattaya is only 2 hours away I would not be too harsh to people complaining about boys prices but as long as we have choice and we still do my advice is rather than focus on negatives like their greed try to find out way of getting best deal using positive side ie. your bargaining power. Firecat is right about stable prices. Today I checked my notes from my first trip to BKK in November 2001 - short time 1200 and 1500, long time 2000. I also paid 2000 for my first ever short time as I did not realize difference between two ' times' until next morning was enlightened by nosy neighbor from my floor who saw me with a boy at night and asked how much I paid him at breakfast. I like xiluzer attitude - you overpaid over going rate but happy memories are priceless. The same here. And if at times we pay and don't get what we want, chalk it off to experience and keep in mind it's not always only boy's fault encounter did not work.

I'd take spare shirt, sock and undies in carry-on just in case you luggage flies next day, when checking in BKK make sure they put red tag ' short connection' on your luggage to increase chances it flies with you all the way

I'm at the moment as far from Thailand as it can be, it's snowy winter here and it brings dry air so humidifiers are in demand items when winter starts

This very morning I helped my elderly neighbor to carry new humidifier she purchased in the drugstore opposite our building. She paid 90 $ fully knowing that the same make could be bought for 60 $ in the hardware store 6 bus stops down the street. When asked why such waste she explained that it would be too much hassle for her to carry pretty bulky and heavy box to and from the bus and she was happy it was available that close even at 50% premium. In market economy we are overpaying for goods and services constantly for convenience, lack of time to shop, not doing homework on comparing prices etc. Services of Thai boys are not exception to this. Some farangs want to show off as you noticed ,either to impress boy, their party or themselves, some don't know the going rate or don't care as long as is less then their domestic rate , some are unable to resist boy's request or not feeling comfortable haggling over price in any situation , not to mention intimate one. It may create inflationary pressure on tips but I'd venture this is rather problem for other casual visitors than frequent ones or residents who should have much better knowledge of local prices and where and how to get them. Read exploits of ChristianPFC who finds his regulars for 500 in the heart of BKK, option not suitable for most visitors as they don't know place and language to communicate effectively. Locals are also in better position to negotiate price with boys as have advantage of offering repeat custom . So while some farangs are overpaying I'd not call them more silly than Lorna, my neighbor above. I agree that some boys my be greedy or just try their luck going for gold as you neatly said but this is not different from our local drugstore and their humidifiers. Your friend had real choice- to make boy unhappy and possibly create a scene or go with the flow and pay / in case described overpay as price was negotiated / . If boy calls him everyday it may not be a bad thing if he is so cute your friend must have him but if it would be me I'd consider this to be neat possibility to negotiate digestible price. You know why boys are not calling me every day when there? I don't carry phone, and if I would certainly will not be providing them with number. It looks that your friend is happy with boy , boy sensed it and presented a bill. I know his feeling as my last boy offed in Nov wanted 5000 in the morning for long time - I stand my ground firmly with 3000 which is more than going rate anyways but like your friend I just had to have him. Not nice parting ways and it looked that boy was much more unhappy than me but I consider this his fault- if you want to be paid more than going rate make sure you make it known beforehand. And there is all this black area we don't know much about- it's how much Asian customers are tipping, if less than farangs boys are trying to find compensation, if more than we are in weaker position as in some bars we are outnumbered big time. Complains about overtipping are nothing new and discussions are always interesting while heated but what always amazes me is that if somebody reveals that paid say 3000 for short time is classified as unwise spender to put it mildly but if dinner bill is quoted as 1000 or hotel room at 4000 nobody says the word about inflationary pressures automatically assuming that people have right to finance their lifestyle as they feel fit. Why deny it to those who are happy to dine on street for 50 and bed in cheap places in order to save money for a other pleasures of flesh? Like your friend "spends every baht he can whoring around" , rest assured there are more people like him. And as long as there are boys on the stage we have some negotiating power if we want to use it. But for some, spoiling night over 500 baht / 16$ / price difference may not feel like worth the trouble, others will be nickel diming to the last 20 baht note. My general comment will be that IMHO lots of complains about tip inflation comes from people who would rather pay less but do not feel comfortable in Cheap Charlie skin and are not good in price negotiations, resigning to pay what's requested and to complain later i.e. essentially good hearted people. And this is what Thai boys like in us.

Welcome back ! What the hell is NSA, some spy agency? I just happened to read my own post yesterday to recover boy's name and came across of you comment about returning. You better recover in boy's arms at 11.30 p.m. than in front of screen

What 'keeneow' stands for, is this some singlish expression? I see this word used often, never had a chance to ask. If you are content with your life in Pattaya this is what counts, good for you ! Pattaya needs more farangs who are happy there- too many unhappy faces, this is memory I took with me from brief visit in Nov. And you are right , in company of younger people we feel younger too.

Firecat, where you are ? I thought you about to arrive in PTY, on Nov 23 you commented on one of my post that you arrive in 24 days.

Nothing to disagree , I actually am on your side but in real life I just don't follow my own theory. And do not have any regrets on skipped drinks . When I go to bar to see show I purchase drink for myself and a boy, either one I drag with me there or one picked up from the bar line, if this is a case I tip him as well on top of drink. Always tip fuck show boys, at least one big cock participant and at least one boy from stage apart from one who was sitting with me. So I feel justified if day or two later I just show up to grab the boy without drink, particularly at Dreamboys with their 650 off fee. I'd not be concerned about boy milking me for another 50 if I paid my standard rate but would not give a baht more if paid more. Bigger fraud they are subjecting us is when they promise , say , long time and after few hours phone call from dying mother causes end of roll in the sheets because they must leave. I doubt somebody consider 3500 going rate may may be this is what person paid - sometimes boys are not afraid to quote extraorbitant price - one of my massage boys wanted 5000 for long time when I asked. Last time I was there for Christams was in 2002, I remember I was wondering about seasonal increase in rates but it was not a case, in fact one boy converted voluntarily short time to long one and refused extra money.

I read it somewhere about upping off price without drink purchased but personally never had such experience and I'd say more often than not I off boy without drink either because I was in bar before and know whom I want or seeing boy on the stage made fast decision. Second approach is not advisable as often looks and performance are not matched, it's actually better to invest in drink , talk to the boy and feel his skin a bit. At 3 a.m. is heartless to advise boy about free bus but if one tip him well can send a boy home with clear conscience. This is what I prefer and never pay any taxi allowance.

I have the same problem with Internet explorer 11.0 , no quote function working so you not alone Bob

Taking just one farang for a good ride at night may result in daytime trip to the store and here's the phone. Or flashing thing beyond boys means the same thing like in the West where some people are driving cars they really can't afford just to flash or feel better , imagine visiting your village in Laos being first there owing smartphone, spirits of everybody are lifted up that one of them made good as 'tour guide' in Pattaya. But you my be right, I noticed too that they tend to be discreet about their work and at times tend to skip questions when asked.

Street food likely is similar to what they eat at home like mama's cooking so likely it's why they like it. You are100% right about western food -specially in hot Thai climate they would acquire our shapes very fast. Colmx observation may be spot on- smiling face always attracts attention of others. On another hand offing boy who still smells his previous clinet may not be best receipt for fun as boy may not be as enthusiastic as we wish. Your estimation of 5-6 offs per month for average boy may be correct if not over optimistic. Really I don't have an idea but have my statistic samples-for most of my massage boys I was their first client that day, I usually ask either mamasan or them after they landed my contract. Granted they may be lying for some reason but I doubt. One of best looking boys from Classic I offed in 2nd half of May told me I'm his second off that month only. Very good looking #76 from Dreamboys, owner of firm and perky butt told me I'm his first off in 4 days. Yes at that bar it's lots of internal competition as IMHO almost all boys there are very good looking but on another hand this is very busy bar packed even on Monday or Tuesday evenings with prospective clients.

Don't be shy, Hemingway was good writer but he is dead for a while. We are not looking for report contender to the Nobel Prize in literature but some insight about your findings would be nice, dry 2 liners like in your post about Albury are quite informative and good to keep forum alive

This link works , thank you

I tried to see Pink Butterflies but message shows ' this video was removed by the user", any idea what this may mean?