NIrishGuy

?? I thought it was being FABULOUS that we all reserved the right to being every now and then, I DO wish someone would stop changing the rules and that the gay union would at least up date their mailing list so we get copies of what we're expected to be to uphold the gay stereotype these days as it's SO exhausting trying to keep up ! lol

Yes, I fully understand your point and can only guess that a) he's quite happy to let the manager employ "whoever" to get on and actually physically run the working end of the resturant as he can of course bully and order them round should he so wish ( as my Thai friend had said the Thai waiter had told him when he asked what the guys problem was at the very start of proceedings' and b) I can also only guess that "perhaps" ( and I am guessing here) that the owner recognised my friend as a well known Soi Twilight bar waiter / boy and didn't want "his sort" about the place - as to whether that was i regards to his sexuality or his employment I don't know, but I do know it absolutely ended up 100% about our sexuality in general and nothing else. I think the simple answer as to why its a busy restaurant is that is probably not a bad french restaurant, situated bang in the centre of bangkok and frequented by many tourists and expats alike, I think his drunken antics probably only raise their head on occasion as I know for instance at the start of proceedings he was doing his UTMOST to try and quietly shu us out without US causing any sort of scene and was VERY aware of his diners and it's only once he realised that he couldn't bully me and say the stuff that he was saying that he lost it more - and even THEN he was still trying to move me towards the door the whole time as I KNOW from his body language and temper that if we hadn't of been inside the restaurant it would have been 10 times worse, so i guess the answer as to why people dont now is that he hides his views and behaviour very well and isn't stupid enough to let his own paying customers see what's really going on in his head ( although he was so boorish I find that hard ot believe actually but that's my guess) - but as I say next time you're going stop by in the massage place opposite and ask their opinion and for some of the stories and they'll happily tell you as it's been an ongoing problem for them - and likewise if you know any BKK gay bar owners perhaps as his reputation seems to have preceeded himself in some quarters as incredibly he's also known to drink with one of them ( who has confirmed my view of him privately to me as he's not quite as well tolerated as he seems to think by his "friends" it appears :-) So yes, the guy on so many levels does appear to be a total contradiction in terms, I absolutely agree but what was going on under his skin that night was very real and absolutely what he REALLY thinks - and of that I have no doubt ! So, as I say next time you're there ask about and I'd love to hear other peoples comments who know or work for him perhaps as maybe the poor guy was just having a bad day..........he wasn't he was just drunk and being himself IMHO :-) Again NIrish I will not dispute anything you say about your personal experience. But if the owner has such a foul reputation, how come he has managed to keep that restaurant going for the 13 years he's owned it? Not only that, as I know from past experience he's more often than not full or nearly full for both lunch and dinner! (The set lunch at around Bt. 375 looked great value, although I've never had lunch there). It was certainly packed on Sunday with Thais and farang! I'd describe it as 'pleasant' rather than lovely, with very good provincial French cuisine. In view of your sad tale, then it should perhaps not be included in any listing here of restaurants for gays to visit in Bangkok. And yet, I have to come back to my own experience. Never had any problem whatever with any of the staff - nor that one time with the owner. Have always seen at least one gay waiter there (not always the same guy). Have always visited with gay friends - both Thai (often younger that NIrish' friend) and farang. Have often seen other gay couples dining there - usually 50s+ farang with 20s to 30s Thais - and never seen any problems. And I've been dining there off and on for at least 6 years. As for food review, here's a brief description of our dinner on Sunday. For starters, one of my friends had his usual oysters which he says are amongst the best in town. I had a lovely, light cheese souffle. Our other friend had scallops wrapped in bacon with, I believe, some Pernod sauce. For main course, I had sole meuniere - slightly disappointing. One had the French black pudding and the other duck - both very good. For dessert, two of us had the pear tarte with cream and ice cream; the other a chocolate mousse. All excellent. We started with a round of drinks, then three glasses of wine and three of water, and the bill was just on Bt. 5,000. But we had reason to be grateful to our nice gay waiter. We were celebrating a birthday and one of us had brought along a half bottle of one of the best dessert wines. We hoped we wouldn't have to pay the corkage. WIth a nod and a wink, the waiter opened the bottle and brought three small glasses. No corkage charge!

No I believe the owner is just a prick, plain and simple, who among being a bit of a brutish drunk who likes to bully people also just happens to be totally homophobic for his own family / personal reasons. I actually don't doubt for a second the restaurant in itself is ok and just think its sad the manager hasn't the balls to tell his boss to wind his neck in, but based on his size and his loud over bearing behaviour when he had drink taken I'm not surprised that the manager just does what he's told for a quiet life perhaps. As I said I was told later that this wasnt a one off incident and it actually had nothing to do with me or my BF per se and my BFs talking to his member of staff ( and so I would assume pointed himself out then as gay) seemed to be enough to push the owner over whatever thin edge he has when drinking it seems. As I'd mentioned he also has a reputation for fighting and terrorising ( which was a word their farang boss used to describe his actions when telling me how the guy had behaved towards the massage boys and directly to the farang owner himself. The owner actually posted in SGF re all of this as well but Neal requested he stop the conversation and I believe they then had a few words themselves over that so the guy left that board but he's still the owner there I believe so if anyone drops in I'm sure all or any of the boys working there will happily fill you in on the guys long campaign of annoyance and general homophobic behaviour. So yes, the restaurant itself is probably lovely, I don't doubt that, but the owner is without doubt one hateful homophobic sod - there are a few other respected gay business owners in BKK who are also aware of this fact and told me both more info re that and also the story behind it all which explains the guys "issues" but I'll not go in to that if you don't mind as its not my place to repeat their words without their express permission (which I don't have of course), but every word I've said I'm happy to stand over as its all fact and happened and I have plenty of witnesses as to the fact and I make no apology for passing on these facts as people should know who their hard money is going to I guess. Anyway, I've said what happened and I'll leave it at that, if you're back three some night you'll maybe give us a food review as I was busting to try it actually as the menu looked quite nice ! Sods law eh ! :-(

Personally I find the religous right very seldom are and if that's the reasoning behind apples decisions they should really keep their own personal beliefs out of business - or maybe I should just stop buying Apple products, I guess that can work either way perhaps ! On the other hand and to show some balance I already happily use away at my Iphone and after being a PC man all my life i've just bought a MAC a few months ago and I have to say i absolutely LOVE it and ane sorry i didn't make the switch years ago as it simply "works", doesn't crash, has no virus issues ( yet ) and usually knows what I want to do before I do ! - oh and it seems to madly piss off PC users every time I mention it which is just an added bonus I guess he he

@Fountain hall - of that I have no doubt as I believe that our problems where a driect result of the Owner and certainly not the staff - and a weak manager who hadn't the balls to stand up to his boss perhaps ! Our problem started I believe on arrival as we were sitting at the bar waiting for our table and my Soi twilight BF de jour got talking to the barman who my Bf knew to be quietly gay and was chatting away to him for a long time in Thai and they were getting on like a house on fire, we were then seated at our table and were browsing the menu and chatting quietly between ourselves for maybe 10 minutes or more when the manager came up and told us there had been a mistake and our table was already taken and we shouldn't have just walked in and sat there as they were full and we'd have to leave! I assumed that this was a genuine mistake and pointed out we had already been in restaurant for about half an hour already and in fact it was his staff who had seated us and we hadn't just taken a random table and he said no, this simply wasn't true and we were to leave immediately. Again assuming a genuine misunderstanding had occurred I asked my Thai friend to call the waiter who seated us over and they then confirmed my story to the Manager -then the guy who I now know to be the Owner came up and up behind me stood RIGHT tight to my chair as the Manager repeated again "I don't care what my staff said you must go", I actually still stupidly assumed the owner was perhaps the other customer who was waiting on "his" table and actually apologised to him for the obvious confusion and said I'm sure they have it all sorted in a moment for us all ( and was very nice about that) where upon his realising that I didn't "get it" as to who he was the owner then "flipped" and very subtly but VERY forcefully grabbed the back of my chair and quietly but menacing whispered " just get out, GET OUT, we don't want YOUR sort in here" - and even then I STILL didn't get it. I should add by the way that I'm a "normal looking" 44 year old farang and my bf was a 35 yr old respectfully dressed, but yes probably obviously gay guy to other Thai's at least I guess and it's not like we were two raving queens, far from it and I should also clarify that we were neither loud in any way nor drunk etc as it was only 7pm and this was our first stop on our night out. My Thai friend then spoke quickly and in Thai to the waiter who seated us who apologised profusely unofficially and explained we'd been seen by the owner chatting to his (gay) bar staff member on arrival and he didn't like "the gays" coming to his restaurant and that was enough to "disgust him" apparently, so little did we know our card was marked from that point on and the rest re the table being booked etc was all just bullshit to get us out and he had sent the pathetic excuse of a Manager over to act on his wishes and hence their little game. So on hearing the truth from my boyfriend I said to the owner in a reasonably quiet but still polite voice " hold on, I know what this is about, you just don't want us here as we're gay, is that right?" which he hesitated for a millisecond and then just grabbed the back of my chair and started to up end it saying louder and louder " just go, you go NOW, get OUT" and when I repeated my question louder he finally cracked and gave up all attempts at hiding his real views and really went for it saying " yes, FINE, that's right, we don't want YOUR sort in here now get OUT" and when I said loudly enough for half the restaurant to hear his "what ! You want to throw is out of here because we're GAY ?!" he again just agreed and kept saying "yes now get out, GET OUT YOU FAGGOTS" and started losing his temper more and more as he went as I wasn't going quietly as he had hoped or expected. It was also very obvious that he'd been drinking and he then grabbed my by the arm as if he was going to pull me out of my chair to assist me off his premises - bad mistake ! as I squared up to him and told him I would "drop him" in the middle of his restaurant if he didn't get his hands off me straight away and he and I had a full on Mexican stand off all the way from our table to the door, with him calling me a faggot over and over again and saying how I / we disgusted him and me shouting that he was nothing but a drunken homophobic prick etc etc ( quite a spectacle for his other diners I can assure you lol) This all then spilled out to the Soi as we left and I fully admit the next bit was childish on my part but I couldn't resist :-) so, as we were about to walk away I turned and said "look no hard feelings eh, lets just shake on it and we won't ever come back" (as he so wanted to punch me never mind shake my faggot hand lol) - at which point my BF nearly had a coronary and started kicking my shin and glaring at me for trying to make peace with the guy - but the guy obviously figured he would do anything just to get us away from his place and as he I begrudgingly held out his arm to half heartedly shake hands I quickly raised mine but continued on right up into his face and gave him the fingers told him to go f**k himself with a few other choice words thrown in for good measure about his weight, his overall sweatiness and stink and also perhaps an unsubtle questioning of his parentage as I flicked my heels in the gayest was I possibly could and turned left him standing fuming with rage as we walked away - all of which was witnessed by the 6 or 8 massage boys sitting on the terrace opposite who had been watching the whole thing and who all burst out in cheers and a round of applause as we walked up their Soi - making the twisted bugger madder than ever ! lol I found out later that this type of thing had been going on for several months actually and he had done everything in his power to bully all the Thai boys and the gay farang owner of the massage place as he thought it lowered their very existence and presence in his Soi lowered the tone of his restaurant and he's even gone to the extent of going inside their massage place and threatening to have it burnt down on one occasion. However as I'd mentioned I was then talking to a well respected business owner in Soi 4 who told me like all homophobes there were lets just say certain family reasons re one of his siblings as to why he didn't like gay people but I'll leave that aside for now. I had since heard some terribly sad news about an accident that occurred at his home with tragic results which if true was terribly sad but I'll not comment further on that here perhaps, but as this IS a GAY Thailand board I felt that it was important to post THE FACTS for us gay guys to read so we know exactly where our pink pound is going these days as homophobic twats like him DEFINITELY don't deserve our valued custom, especially if it means we have to be less gay to fit in to his narrow view of the world ! And sorry for the long post but I did want to be accurate for others to get the full story and unlike some others here I'm not known for my brevity :-)

I hope you didn't let the owner know you're gay as he's a homophobic twat - and I use that term totally intentionally after being asked to leave his eatery as "he doesn't want our sort there" - that being myself and the Thai boyfriend de jour that I happened to be with that night and neither of us are 30 year screaming queens or any such thing ( not that there's anything wrong with that of course) The sad thing was that he hadn't even the balls T the start to just ask us to leave outright and tried to use his feeble pussy manager to pretend our table had been reserved ( which it hadn't) as one of his other junior staff had actually just placed us there and eventually after I realised his game and told him I KNEW exactly why he was trying to bully us into leaving and that he would and couldn't it wouldn't intimidate or embarrass me as I was not embarrassed to be gay he then let go of all pretence and lost it calling us both fucking faggots among other things and shouted at us to get out, resulting in him and I almost coming to blows in the entrance to the place in full view of the whole restaurant - where I should add several people also heard his faggot comments and were equally disgusted at him. I should add I found out later that this is and was par for the course for him and he had also been terrorising the massage place and the gay guys there for months as well - however he bit off more than he could chew that night and his manager was a watery wee weasel who was happy to do his bosses dirty work for him until it all kicked off and the fat owner interjected himself with his homophobic hatred. However as with so many almost violent homophobic people I found out shortly after that he had lets just say personal family reasons for behaving as he did and obviously had a lot of unresolved issues ( not that that's any excuse for being a homophobic asshole of course) And if a Mod is reading is and wondering is this ok to post every word is the truth and I can and will stand over it anywhere - as the guy was as I've said above a totally homophobic twat.

Thats no way to talk about your wife Scotty !! I'm sure she's a lovely woman and not a small bag at all ! :-)

Great post deejay - but the one critical piece of information you left out about the market was the actual cost of a typical buffalo there !? Did you check ? And the reason I ask of course is so that the next time I hear the buffalo die story I can immediately pull out the right amount and say "no problem, go and buy yourself a new one !" ( cause I'm good that way lol)

Just to say I always really enjoy reading blogs / posts about other places, whilst this is a Thailand board we all do live in the world in general and I always tend to think of coming to the board like going to the pub to chat with friends and you wouldn't go to the pub after returning from a great holiday and NOT tell your friends about it and if they were any sort of friends anyway they would surely ask ! Plus as gay guys there's a fair chance a lot of us do go to the same countries, places, bars etc etc so that so our info can be both interesting and invaluable when planning or even just thinking of going somewhere new and that doesn't lessen our interest in Thailand in anyway, it just makes the overall conversation / board more rounded and interesting as opposed to just comparing off fee's and bar openings and closures every other week ( not that THIS board does that so much thankfully :-)

Ah the difference between living in swinging hip Singapore and Downtown Belfast - as if I were to invest in such a ( ridiculously gay looking) bag I would instantly have my house petrol bombed and my family given 24 hours to leave the city for having such a gay son ( and one with such terrible taste in man bags lol) So, no you work away there with your man bag, when i see someone slipping into a seat in a go go bar somewhere in Soi Twilight who is carrying same then I'll know it's you - and you'll know me too as I'll be the guy with just a simple iphone in one pocket and his hand around his obvious big bulge in the other it seems ! :-)

I'm offended !! This is racial stereotyping !! Just because I'm Irish doesn't mean I only drink bloody Guinness you know !! How offensive ! No, I"ll have you know that I also drink Irish whisky as well so there !! :-p lol ( and yes I can report that Molly's do serve a reasonably respectable pint of Guinness "apparently" ! :-) Ha no just to clarify I don't do that stereotype thing and I'm pleased to report that I'll drink just about anything that's put down in front of me ( that'll be the Irish man in me) and especially if someone else has just bought it ! ( That'll be the Ulster Scots part of me them i guess :-) See, that's the thing about racial stereotypes in Ireland as if you look hard enough you'll find there is usually SOME truth in them ! Lol

@abang - yes the second phone thing would of course work and I did do that once myself but found that carrying the second small cheap phone AND my smart phone and a good quality digital camera in my pockets all whilst going in and out of go go bars wasn't the best / most practical idea for me as I ended up with my trousers bulging for all the wrong reasons ! Also as an aside to that the the only phone I've ever had stolen whilst in Thailand was in fact that very same cheap 2nd phone and that was 100% my own fault as when carrying my smart phone I'm reasonably careful with it and look after it whereas with that cheap phone I didn't place any value on it and again when slightly tipsy one night ( are you starting to see a pattern here of how my trips go lol) I left it sitting on top of the bar counter in one of the outdoor bars in Soi Twilight and when I turned to look for it later unsurprisingly it was gone. Also thankfully with the advent of better quality cameras in the new iPhones etc I was also able to ditch the other camera so now the one phone does everything including backing up my pics to my home computer as i take them via "the cloud" which is handy if i do ever lose my phone again and I can still use the free wifi available almost everywhere in Bkk and I do just put up with the ( ridiculously expensive) international call rates as and when needed - now if only I could get the benefit of one phone doing everything AND your 299 baht a month then we'd really have it cracked !! :-(

Right you buggers :-) I did say "let's say" the 7th if 8th floor as I just simply couldn't remember how many there were as it was about 4/5 years ago now and yes I might have been tipsy the odd time but I wasn't totally hammered lol so trust me whatever strange situation there was the lift only went to a certain floor ( the 3rd according to your good selves and I'll take your word for that) but if you were staying in the floor / area above then you DID have to come out of the lift and then go up a small flight of stairs to the top row of rooms I'm sure if it !:-) as there were several nights when I got out of the lift and walked straight along the corridor of the (lets say) the 3rd floor only to have to come back again and walk up those damned steps which caught me out so many times ! So, anyone else know what I'm talking about here or am I totally losing my mind just perhaps ? And you do know I'm just going to have to stay there again some night just to prove to myself that I'm NOT crazy now don't you !! Lol

Great idea Abang1961 - just as long as you're able to lose your phone number and contacts etc for the week I guess, personally when i'm away I do need / like still being able to keep my UK number in case anyone needs to contact me either for work or personal reasons and to put a new sim in my phone wipes that advantage - and yes you're right those 100 baht an hour costs soon add up - making the Tarntawan across the street look not just that little bit more expensive than one first thinks perhaps - just a pity they've no pool or gym :-( Although everytime I do stay somewhere with both I hardly every get around to using either so it ends up hardly mattering to me in the end.

Again backing up what others have said its fine, no problem AT ALL with joiners and like A447 said I did get a look walking in alone a few times and from memory several times ( or maybe all the time I can't recall) there was no need to even sign your friend in and after a while I just walked straight on it ( and yes I know you're meant to etc but it was late / early and I might have been a little tipsy and had more than one boy with me:-) Re the rooms do pay more to upgrade your room as the corner rooms as mentioned are ridiculously small in my opinion, ok if just needing a bed for the night I guess but not great for relaxing in, the suites look like a good idea and aren't that much more expensive. Oh one slightly daft but annoying thing, from memory I was staying on lets say the 8th floor but the lift only went to the 7th floor, which doesn't sound like a big deal but I found it really annoying having to remember to get out and walk another flight ( again usually when tipsy I admit ) So to me as long as you get a big enough room it's spot on, nice pool, nice food and great location - bloody annoying that they charge for wifi though and I think you have to keep going down to get a new code if I remember correctly ??? But apart from all that lol - it's fine. Be sure to come back and let us all know what YOU thought if you do give it a try.

And what is it that makes farang seem SO much more tasty than Thai guys, do we emit a different smell or something that the wee buggers just love as I go out with three or four Thai friends of an evening, we all go to the same place and sit inches apart but the next day theres me with lumps out of me and bites everywhere and my Thai friends have not a single bite between them and they can never believe just how much I've been eaten - or I wonder is it just that my observation and swatting skills aren't as honed as theirs perhaps ! ??

Well if I had to pick someone to do that job I would pay good money if I could swing the vote to ensure that the Milan Cardinal Angelo Scola gets elected - not that he has a great track record on gay rights or anything but just for the sheer pleasure of hearing newcasters referring as to how refershing it will be to have "PopeScola" now in the Vatican as I always thought it was more of a Coca Cola place myself ! lol And you REALLY would have thought that His Holiness and Cardinal Scola might have worked out the gays were trying to tell them some gay scandal was about to break at their last outing together as I mean talk about waving a flag :-)

Wow, I know some people on other boards say posters here can sometimes be "intense" but I didn't expect us all to be literally so "in tents" so soon ! :/) Ok, so as some of my best childhood memories were of me and four guys all squeezed into my Boys Brigade tent for camping holidays :-) count me in too, but I warn you I've wandering hands when I sleep ( its a medical thing I swear !) and I just can't abide sleeping bags so we'll all just have to go in the buff - now THAT could be "intense in tents" :-))

@abang - virgin status eh !! I like the sound of that one, lets go with that eh ! It's been a while, my my a newbie and a virgin all in one day, I feel like I'm 14 all over again, 14 !! Did I say 14, I meant 18 of COURSE ! :-)

"As Fountainhall says, it's always worth checking the hotel's own website for a price comparison - it can be the cheapest." As well as checking their website I would also highly recommend ringing the hotel direct and speaking to reservations as a lot of the time ( especially in Thailand I find) the hotel web site prices are sent to the web programmer at the start of the season and are rarely changed, whereas in reality "actual" hotel prices can tend to flucuate wildly and if the hotel is not busy some great rates can be achieved. I was told by a Pattaya hotel manager that his (and most if not all ) hotels sign a contract with Agoda and their like to promise that the hotel will never knowingly undercut the Agodas published rate - at risk should they get caught of losing their Agoda bookings status, hence why the hotel website rate may not be the "actual" cheapest negoiatable rate, also sometimes taxes and other various Agoda add on's can mysteriously "disappear" when booking directly with certain hotels if perhaps cash is being paid etc. For instance I have just confimed a room with a nice Silom hotel which was shown on Agoda at an all in price of around 3300 baht a night and have secured EXACTLY the same room directly for 2400 baht a night ( to be fair that should have been 2800 Baht but I was given a further discount as a regular visitor, but still even the original 500 baht a night over 11 nights all adds up I guess so it was worth the original inital phone call to the hotel directly in my case. "Some hotels ask for credit card details to be sent to confirm a booking. They ask for this to be done by normal, unencrypted email - I hate that idea! " I would second that and after attending a crime prevention course on internet security would STRONGLY suggest that no one ever sends unencrypted credit card details via email as criminals are currently using many forms of botnets to infect machines worldwide which then trawl through emails trying to indentify strings of numbers that suit the "shape" of credit card details i.e card number length and expriry dates all in one email etc and then copy and send them in bulk once collected to the criminal gang, so if asked I always refuse and if I HAVE to send my details at worst I will agree to send them by fax and nothing else.

Can I just add on a slightly less serous note (which is always much better I find) that several people have (correctly) referred to me as a "newbie" - so, can I just request that you keep that up - for about 7 seven years in fact - as just for a split second there it made me feel terribly young again ! :-) Thanks for that, you almost made my week ! :-)

Whilst I appreciate what you are trying to do Khor Torse at the risk of repeating myself please do not deem to speak for me, I have not spoken anywhere about leaving anything, speaking personally I don't do drama and my simply regisitering here is ( to me anyway) no big deal and as I've already said nothing should be read into that by anyone and the fact that three different people all registered here for their own individual reasons is really nothing that this board should feel the need to worry about or discuss any more than any other random person joining. As has already been mentioned assuming that I ( and the other people I guess) adhere to the rules of this site I really don't see the need for any further discussion re this matter. And again in the very nicest possible way please don't assume to know my reasons for regisitering here as they may well and do in fact have absolutely nothing to do with ANY one individual poster who may or may not be posting on both boards ( actually I don't even know who you're talking about nor care less). I'm all for a quiet life and having a bit of fun and mutual enjoyment on the various Thailand boards is my aim, simple as that. I'm surmising by your posts that you maybe believe that three people joining all at once was some sort of coreographed move, I can assure you that it wasn't and in fact the three of us weren't even aware the others had also joined until we noticed each others names here after signing up. So, I do understand your believing (incorrectly) that there may be a need for caution at some level I can assure you (certainly in my case and I'm sure i can also speak for the others in this regard too) there is really no need for undue concern or discussion re this matter further and assuming all board rules are adhered to that should be the end of the matter. So lets all post or read or whatever it is we do as normal and move on now please as this thread has already raised the subject of three random people subscribing to this board much much more than should ever have been necessary anyway I believe. Many thanks - and thank you (all) for the welcome as well by the way !

As I've recently just registered ( even though I've been reading the board for many years) I'm not sure if you're referring to me in your three new members but I think you'll find I haven't or didn't announce anything to anyone either here or on SGF as I've nothing to announce. As SG said I came here without comment and had no intention of bringing a discussion from another board to here so have no fear there, as I've said previously I also post on GBs board too so posting here or there or anywhere is no big deal to me and nothing should be read into that by anyone. Meanwhile thank you for your open letter formal welcome ( at least I think that's what it was :-) and I look forward to continue reading and contributing at times hopefully to the many educating, entertaining and respectful posts that appear here.